No Children Allowed

[Zeb_Carter]

MSNBC is running an excellent article about how people and businesses are finally getting tired of the parents that let their little monsters run free, annoying everybody else on the planet.

Now I have nothing against children, I was once one myself, but those parents that let their child(ren) run around without supervision should be wacked upside the head.

Back, when I was a child, you had better be well behaved. Adults were addressed as "Sir" or "Ma'am". You were always polite, never rude. You didn't run around screaming at the top of your lungs in the store or restaurant. You were taught to behave and not embarrass your parents.

And that is how my children were brought up and how their children are being brought up.

 

[Liar]

I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

On the other hand, there are those that are trying to instill some sort of manners into their children. There are those that are succeeding. And, of course, there are those that have had some measure of success - but those things that were taught are being unlearned, as they're not around to ensure the young ones hold onto them.

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Hehehe..
That article was fantastic.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that children are mongrels.

Don't get me wrong. I like kids. (On a case to case basis, and never in herds. )
I don't have children, but I have a younger sister and a nephew.
Whenever I took them anywhere, ya better believe they behaved themselves.
Same with when I watched my boss' kids. They were demons. But they behaved for me.
Course, kids act different with their parents as opposed to anyone else.

I'm not saying I think people should always leave their kids at home.
I know people have to take their kids in public. They need socialized, and how else will they learn to behave in public if they dont go?
But is it so much to ask for them to.. um, ya know, well, like.. kinda watch them?
And yes, I know there are parents out there that watch their kids.
I don't even care if the kids are being bad. As long as someone is trying, instead of just ignoring them.

My personal favorite:

There was this kid.. he was like 8 or 9 I think, and he was a creepy little monster. I don't know how better to explain it.. but there was something in his eyes that was just.. wrong.
Anyway, everytime they came in, I'd hear the theme music from 'The Omen' in my head, and almost slipped and called him Damien more than once.
I was always sweet and nice and talked to him, and he'd sit there and glare, and pointedly pull clippies out of his hair, or take the cape off, and growl.
Yes, the child groweled.
He then proceeded to spit on the cape, then tried to spit on me. I ripped that cape off his neck so damn fast, and told him he was done. (Which he wasnt. I still had more of the haircut to do, but fuck the dumb shit. I do not do spit. Especially while the mom lets him.)
It pissed me off because the mom was standing right there, watching it happen. And she didn't open her mouth once.
He then made his way back around to the front desk, spitting on the floor the whole way.
The mom again watched him, and said nothing.
They get up front, and he wanted some M&M's out of the machine.. and his mom really gave him the money to get some. (Sorry, at this stage, he doesnt deserve candy.)
So he gets his handful of M&M's, turns to me, and stares me right in the eye as he turns his hand over and spills them all on the floor.
Mom, yet again, watched, and yet again, said not one word.

However, he was an extreme case.. but thats the first thing that popped into my brain when I saw this thread.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

And it is those parents that stand there and watch their little darlings do those things that this article is directed at. The children might not be as bad as your example, but to not disipline the child at all is criminal.

Not disiplining your children should be concidered a form of child abuse, because the child will most likely not be the shining example his parents hoped he would for the world.

 

[R. Richard]

From my observation the major problem with children in public is that the parents are used to one level of incivility from their children, while others expect more civilized behavior.

I have seen mothers seemingly completely ignore their runing-wild children in a store. However, as soon as the children start to get into real trouble, the mother is instantly aware.

Another problem is the ability of many parents to completely ignore a crying, screaming child, particularly in a restaurant. I don't need some kid screaming his/her lungs out while I am trying to eat.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

Actually, children of that nature...

i was in work a couple of weeks ago, while doing office stuff after hurting my wrist, and the son of one of my coworkers was there for the afternoon. It was her, him, and i. This kid is 9 years old according to his mom, and taking medication, and things of that nature. However, he is her baby.

i'm talking baby to the point that he's only allowed to watch things like Sesame Street and Barney while at home. You can imagine how spoiled the little bastard is.

Anyway...

She and i were sitting there answering phones and filing and yadda yadda that goes along with the office job. A representative of one of the companies we hire workers for came in, and noticed this child sitting there by himself, so started talking to him and messing around a little bit, throwing a paper ball back and forth or something. The kid physically attacked him. Tried to hit him in the face.

His mom sat there and did nothing. i stood up and yelled at him to come over - which he didn't do. She looked up and got this panicked look on her face. i just stared at her. She kind of shrugged and told him that he made me mad, and was going to have to deal with me the rest of the afternoon.

i made him go cut a switch from the bush outside the office door.

He's behaved around me since then.

 

[AppleBiter]

I hate it when people bring children over to MY house and then let them do whatever the fuck they want. That pisses me off. I'm not there to hang out with you AND babysit your brats. Watch 'em your damn self. *nods*

Sorry. Recent annoyance.

 

[Munachi]

what would interest me though - especially considering liar's quote in this thread - is whether you think the current generation of children is particularly horrible (something in the water? air? tv?), the current generation of parents is really bad (again, why?) or children have always been one of those things we should have gotten rid of long ago?

anyway, i do indeed get annoyed of some children... like my cousin's son often seems to dictate what the whole family does... remember my grandmother's birthday, when while we were sitting in the living room having cake and tea, the tele tubbies were running on the tv right next to us... but then again, actually i hear i was somewhat of an annoying kid myself.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I'vew told you this before, but here is the story again...

My friend M and her son were at McDonalds. The boy was in a bad mood, so he was answering back and playing around, not standing still, repeatedly trying to jump up on the counter, and being a general pain. M warned him that if he didn't behave, he wouldn't get any lunch. He didn't believe her.
M bought herself a burger meal with a soda, and nothing for the kid. She made him sit down in front of her while she ate her food. When he complained, she told him that she HAD warned him - he didn't obey, so now he was going to be without food.
The boy sat quiet and still for a few moments, while M continued eating. When she was almost done, he said, in a much more humble voice:
"Mummy..? I'm good now."
"Good for you," said M. "Would you like something to eat?"
"Yes, please."
Today, that kid is the most well-behaved kid in McDonalds - still, quiet, and obedient.

What I admire most about M is her way of making her kids obey her without ever raising her hand or raising her voice. And her kids are the most harmonius and happy kids I've ever seen - AND the best-behaved!

I hate it when kids run around and scream in public places. And I hate parents who ignore their kids or try a meek, pleading "Please, Anthon, don't do that, you're making mommy sad! Please..!"
A REAL parent grabs the kid, places his/her butt on a seat and say "next time you make a noise or behave badly, I'm placing you in the car while the rest of us go and have fun!"

Ofcourse, such a threat will only work if you follow through on it, and actually DO put the kid in the car. When a kid knows that your threats aren't empty, they obey.

 

[FallingToFly]

To those who have had horrid child experiences:

I wish you could meet my kids. Not only do they have manners, they use them. They're intelligent, speak clearly, and will have a very nice conversation with you. They'll help you clean up your yard, ask before they pet your dog, and wouldn't dream of spitting, anywhere, at any time. The will call you Mr. or Miss if you invite them to use your first name, or they will call you appropriately by your last name. (Mr. Joe, Miss Jane, Mr or Ms. Smith.) They all make good grades, and they know the meaning and value of the words please and thank you.

That's in public, of course.

At home they're affectionately called the Demons, and numbered by age. We're all well aware that Ian will be President (Evil Overlord if he goes to the dark side), Mason will be Secretary of Defense (General in Chief of the Intergalactic Invasion Force), and Gavin will be the Director of the CIA (Master of the Covert Operations of the Intergalatic Invasion Force- Shadow Ops Leader). Ian can charm anyone in under five minutes, and speaks knowledgably and earnestly in debate- he really didn't get the cookie jar down and break it, and you honestly believe that. Mason likes to watch things blow up, burn, break, or fall beneath his indomitable will- he gets very frustrated when not allowed to destroy that which opposes the Demons' might. And Gavin is the double-sided coin; pretty, charming, smooth as buttered glass, with a delicious flirtatious air that makes anyone melt and give him exactly what he wants- and on the other side, quiet, secretive, slick and agile, and he can get into anything.

They still use manners, they still know when they've pushed too far, but they are, all in all, a force to be reckoned with. I've watched in amusement as Ian has floored cashiers and Ph.D's alike with his intelligence and articulate speech, as Mason quite calmly backed his cousin (five years older and an absolute bully) all the way out of a room with a simple look, and Gavin has flattered and flirted the secret sauce, secret code, and state secrets out of everyone he meets.

Kids are not little puzzles to be figure out. They're little people in the making, and the only way they become GOOD people is through a strict application of checks and balances, and the acquisition of knowledge and social graces. If you don't teach them, as a parent, they won't learn them until much later in life, when it's almost always too late.

Even a stranger can enforce that, by setting their own personal boundaries. If a child decides to be a nuisance to you, personally, you simply stop them, and inform them "I do not appreciate that, and if you don't stop doing it, I'm going to have you removed." Managers will almost always be quite glad to ask a parent to either remove their child or control it in such situations. If it's a situation like Emerald's, where the child was completely out of control, it's a simple matter of saying "I don't allow spitting in my chair. If you do it again, you can leave with your hair half-cut, and everyone will laugh at you." Obviously, you won't earn any money off of it, but the problem is removed, and a message sent that THIS is not an appropriate behavior in the real world.

But then again, it's a matter of being willing to do that in the first place. Not everyone is, and that's a personal choice for all of us. I will say, however, that school would be a lot more effective if they brought back some of the disciplinary measures that used to be used. Embarrassment, removal from the privilege of being able to interact with the rest of your class, isolation, extra work brought on by misdemeanors, and corporeal punishment used with absolute discretion and only as a last resort make wonderful tools.

Just my opinion.

 

[ChilledVodkaIV]

You can't teach kids anything. They learn what they want to learn. Unfortunately, in most cases, they learn it from you.

If I have to explain that, you're never gonna learn.

 

[Oblimo]

Not disiplining your children should be concidered a form of child abuse, because the child will most likely not be the shining example his parents hoped he would for the world.

Zeb, everybody knows you want to start a flame war about corporal punishment, so just come out and say it.

i wuv 'oo

 

[EmeraldKitten]

If it's a situation like Emerald's, where the child was completely out of control, it's a simple matter of saying "I don't allow spitting in my chair. If you do it again, you can leave with your hair half-cut, and everyone will laugh at you." Obviously, you won't earn any money off of it, but the problem is removed, and a message sent that THIS is not an appropriate behavior in the real world.

But then again, it's a matter of being willing to do that in the first place. Not everyone is, and that's a personal choice for all of us.

He did get out of the chair with his hair not completely cut..
And his mother did pay.
I was trying to make commission. Give me a break, LOL.

I felt bad for the mom too... she knows her kid is Satan's spawn. And she's clueless as to what to do with him.
As I said, he creeped me out. Have ya ever been intimidated by an 8 year old? lol.
I can't help thinking of Rosemary's Baby... hehehehe.

As soon as the door closed behind them, I stomped over to my boss' station, and told her I would never cut that kids hair again. Ever. Even if it cost me my job, I'd rather live in a cardboard box with no lid.
And ya know what, he never got put in my chair again.

I shudder to think that there are hairdressers out there that work at children-only salons, LOL.

 

[Aurora Black]

I remember walking around my local (American) mall a few years back, and I was shocked to see a mother who had her child on a leash. I thought it was inhumane to have another person strapped up like a dog in public, and unnecessary because the child wouldn't need to be bound like that if the mother had taken responsibility to raise the child right in the first place. To me, the child leash isn't a sign of a problem child, but of sheer parental laziness.

 

[EmeraldKitten]

I remember walking around my local (American) mall a few years back, and I was shocked to see a mother who had her child on a leash. I thought it was inhumane to have another person strapped up like a dog in public, and unnecessary because the child wouldn't need to be bound like that if the mother had taken responsibility to raise the child right in the first place. To me, the child leash isn't a sign of a problem child, but of sheer parental laziness.

LOL. I'm sorry, I don't mean to laugh.
I guess I never really thought of it one way or another. And certainly not as 'deep' as you explained it. Thank you, for shedding a different light on it.
I always thought it was a pretty nifty idea.

(Lord knows I needed one when I was little. I was a holy terror... running away from my grandma and hiding in clothes racks.. I always thought it was extra funny because she got so scared and nervous and panicked.
Course, I learned when I was older, the reason she acted like that is because she's a Paranoid Schizophrenic. Not quite so funny anymore.)
~~~~~

I was at a high school football game last year, and my god, the mongrels were running rampant. (Yes, let's go to and let the kids run amuck while we watch the game. ) Anyhow, I was in an irritable mood anyway, and the last thing I needed was to get caught in the midst of a stampede.
There was an elderly couple in front of my friend and I, and the poor little old lady about landed on her ass. They were trampling people.
I finally had it, and said, "Shouldn't these kids be on leashes??"
It came out a little louder than I intended, but, it didnt make me mean the statement any less.
I got a few appreciative glances and nods from those who agreed with me, but damn did I get some nasty stares. And I stared right back. It was their kids that were bound and determined to knock people down. And I still stand by the comment, lol.

 

[Weird Harold]

what would interest me though - especially considering liar's quote in this thread - is whether you think the current generation of children is particularly horrible (something in the water? air? tv?), the current generation of parents is really bad (again, why?) or children have always been one of those things we should have gotten rid of long ago?

It's all Spock's fault! -- That's Dr Benjamin Spock, not Science Officer Mr Spock.

Today's crop of children are the third generation of children raised according to Dr Spock's "Enlightened" child-rearing philosophy -- and the increasingly more "feel-good" child-rearing philosophies derived from his vision.

... but then again, actually i hear i was somewhat of an annoying kid myself.

When I was 17 or 18, I met a friend of my father's who hadn't seen me since I was 4 or 5. He looked me over and said, "So, you're little *****. You know, when you were little, you were so ornery I wanted the beat your butt, but you were too little -- now you're too damned big!"

When you can ispire someone to carry a grudge for over a decade, you pretty much define "bad child."

(Apparently, I had crawled under his coffee table -- covered in nicknacks -- and stood up to demonstrate that I was really Superman in disguise.)

 

[nyte_byrd]

It always makes me want to smack the crap out of the parents (yep, the parents) when I see kids doing this nutty stuff and the mom/dad doesn't even say anything. ALL kids act up at one time or another, but when the parents refuse to do their job, the kids are just going to get worse. I figure they're just criminals in the making.
I remember one time we were in an ice cream parlor and my eldest son (he was about 4 at the time) decided to get a bit hyper and loud. He was corrected, but about 5 minutes later he started again. That was it. I gathered our things, made him apologize to the people sitting next to us, and then left. I took my ice cream with me, but left his sitting on the table. That upset him plenty, but even worse was the next time we went to the parlor, he was left at home with a sitter and was told exactly WHY he wasn't going. I think this instilled in him the idea that going out in public was a privelage that required a certain level of behavior. We NEVER had any major problems with him in any store, resteraunt or other public location after that. On the few occaisions that he would begin to get a little loud, all I had to say is "Would you like have to sit at home?" and he would instantly settle down (plus he'd take it apon himself to apologize to anyone around us... sorta funny!).
Discipline doesn't have to be difficult, doesn't have to be violent (although we were never afraid to smack a bottom or two), and works fine if parents would just take the time to BE A PARENT!

 

[EmeraldKitten]

It always makes me want to smack the crap out of the parents (yep, the parents) when I see kids doing this nutty stuff and the mom/dad doesn't even say anything. ALL kids act up at one time or another, but when the parents refuse to do their job, the kids are just going to get worse. I figure they're just criminals in the making.
I remember one time we were in an ice cream parlor and my eldest son (he was about 4 at the time) decided to get a bit hyper and loud. He was corrected, but about 5 minutes later he started again. That was it. I gathered our things, made him apologize to the people sitting next to us, and then left. I took my ice cream with me, but left his sitting on the table. That upset him plenty, but even worse was the next time we went to the parlor, he was left at home with a sitter and was told exactly WHY he wasn't going. I think this instilled in him the idea that going out in public was a privelage that required a certain level of behavior. We NEVER had any major problems with him in any store, resteraunt or other public location after that. On the few occaisions that he would begin to get a little loud, all I had to say is "Would you like have to sit at home?" and he would instantly settle down (plus he'd take it apon himself to apologize to anyone around us... sorta funny!).
Discipline doesn't have to be difficult, doesn't have to be violent (although we were never afraid to smack a bottom or two), and works fine if parents would just take the time to BE A PARENT!

That's too cute! (Your son taking it upon himself to apologize to the people around ya, lol. )

I think sometimes parents are afraid to spank their kids because of people screaming child abuse.
I don't think there's anything wrong with a good old fashioned spanking. I got plenty of them when I was little, lol.
But nowadays, ya grab your kids arm wrong and you're getting disapproving glances from everyone in the general vicinity. And ya just *know* that someone's gonna call Children's Services on your ass.

I took my nephew to McD's one day, and he took off from me, so I was right on his ass.. and he decided to crawl through the lobby like Spiderman. Cute. Real cute. Um, no. I caught up with him directly in the middle of the store, got his arm in one hand, and very calmly whispered in his ear for him to stand up. Now.
He did as was told, and quietly stood at my side while we ordered.
I didn't beat him, I didn't scream, I didn't even say anything so that people could hear.
But people looked down the length of their noses at me, they shook their heads, and all sorts of other 'disapproving' body language.
Whether it was because of his behavior, or the way I handled it, I'm not sure. But it bothered me, because I really was just waiting for a police officer to pop out of no where and arrest me for endangering a minor, lol.

Anyhow, maybe that has something to do with kids of this generation being 'worse'.. the fact that parents are 'afraid' to disipline them in that way in public. And what good does it really do to spank them when ya get home?
I guess that's why God invented bathrooms, so ya can drag them in there kicking and screaming, whack 'em one, and get on with your day.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

That's too cute! (Your son taking it upon himself to apologize to the people around ya, lol. )

I think sometimes parents are afraid to spank their kids because of people screaming child abuse.
I don't think there's anything wrong with a good old fashioned spanking. I got plenty of them when I was little, lol.
But nowadays, ya grab your kids arm wrong and you're getting disapproving glances from everyone in the general vicinity. And ya just *know* that someone's gonna call Children's Services on your ass.

I took my nephew to McD's one day, and he took off from me, so I was right on his ass.. and he decided to crawl through the lobby like Spiderman. Cute. Real cute. Um, no. I caught up with him directly in the middle of the store, got his arm in one hand, and very calmly whispered in his ear for him to stand up. Now.
He did as was told, and quietly stood at my side while we ordered.
I didn't beat him, I didn't scream, I didn't even say anything so that people could hear.
But people looked down the length of their noses at me, they shook their heads, and all sorts of other 'disapproving' body language.
Whether it was because of his behavior, or the way I handled it, I'm not sure. But it bothered me, because I really was just waiting for a police officer to pop out of no where and arrest me for endangering a minor, lol.

Anyhow, maybe that has something to do with kids of this generation being 'worse'.. the fact that parents are 'afraid' to disipline them in that way in public. And what good does it really do to spank them when ya get home?
I guess that's why God invented bathrooms, so ya can drag them in there kicking and screaming, whack 'em one, and get on with your day.

You do have a point... It's rough, and people that don't have young children to discipline simply don't realize how much of a pain it is.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

I remember walking around my local (American) mall a few years back, and I was shocked to see a mother who had her child on a leash. I thought it was inhumane to have another person strapped up like a dog in public, and unnecessary because the child wouldn't need to be bound like that if the mother had taken responsibility to raise the child right in the first place. To me, the child leash isn't a sign of a problem child, but of sheer parental laziness.

Have you ever taken a two year old out into a busy parking lot, to the airport, on a bus, waited for a train with arms full of packages, etc.? You might have another opinion entirely if you had. Sometimes, no matter how good you think you are at parenting, little hand cannot be held and children see something they want and just dart out for it. Better a leash than a dead kid.

ETA: Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as snippity, just a few times of getting the life scared out of me by my son and I've come to sympathize with these parents rather than think it's cruel. I'm not a lazy parent, but sometimes chasing your kid is not all you have to do at once.

 

[Aurora Black]

Have you ever taken a two year old out into a busy parking lot, to the airport, on a bus, waited for a train with arms full of packages, etc.? You might have another opinion entirely if you had. Sometimes, no matter how good you think you are at parenting, little hand cannot be held and children see something they want and just dart out for it. Better a leash than a dead kid.

Scarlett, I didn't mean it as an attack. The child I saw in the leash was older than two years old; more like five or six.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Scarlett, I didn't mean it as an attack. The child I saw in the leash was older than two years old; more like five or six.

It's okay, I know you didn't.

Five or six? My kid would gnaw his way out of that, lol.

 

[FallingToFly]

Scarlett, I didn't mean it as an attack. The child I saw in the leash was older than two years old; more like five or six.

I put all three of mine on leashes once- we were in the grocery store, and they suddenly decided to scatter three separate directions as fast as they could. I rounded them up calmly, took them out to the truck, and pulledout the lead ropes- all three ended up being led around on horse ropes, strapped up in halters-cum-harnsses, and when anyone asked why, they had to explain that they had run away and couldn't be trusted to stay with Mommy, so they had to have someone lead them. We ran into bunches of the two oldest's friends from school, and they got laughed at a lot.

That was about two years ago- only had to do it once, after that, I have the most well-behaved kids in the grocery store.

Like I said before, a little embarrassment brought on by their own actions does a WORLD of good.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Zeb, everybody knows you want to start a flame war about corporal punishment, so just come out and say it.

i wuv 'oo

Idiot ignored.