News article about gravity -- for those interested in Physics, Cosmology, etc.
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rgraham666
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Good one, min.
I love learning how little we know about the universe.
I love learning how little we know about the universe.
dr_mabeuse
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This is strange, given the recent findings about 'dark energy', which seems to be an anti-gravitational force at work in the cosmos.
It was found several years ago that the universe is not only expanding, as was known since the '30's, but that the rate of expansion is increasing. To explain this, cosmologists formulated a theory that there's an unknown form of energy called "dark energy" that acts like anti-gravity, pushing matter away in all directions. The Pioneers seem to be feeling the opposite of this.
As far as I know, this dark energy only works on a mega-macroscale though, and maybe wouldn't effect matter within a galaxy.
I would disagree too that gravity is one of the best-understood forces in nature. Certainly on our human scale it's the force we're most aware of, but there is a lot we don't know about it , and it's the one force that they can't get to fit into a unified field theory.
(The other fundamental forces are the electromagnetic force, the strong force, and the weak force. Physics says that there are only 4 fundamental forces in the entire universe, and the Unified Field Theory is an attempt to corellate all 4 forces into one set of priciples. So far it's not been successful)
Okay. Lecture's over. Where's my honorarium?
---Zoot
It was found several years ago that the universe is not only expanding, as was known since the '30's, but that the rate of expansion is increasing. To explain this, cosmologists formulated a theory that there's an unknown form of energy called "dark energy" that acts like anti-gravity, pushing matter away in all directions. The Pioneers seem to be feeling the opposite of this.
As far as I know, this dark energy only works on a mega-macroscale though, and maybe wouldn't effect matter within a galaxy.
I would disagree too that gravity is one of the best-understood forces in nature. Certainly on our human scale it's the force we're most aware of, but there is a lot we don't know about it , and it's the one force that they can't get to fit into a unified field theory.
(The other fundamental forces are the electromagnetic force, the strong force, and the weak force. Physics says that there are only 4 fundamental forces in the entire universe, and the Unified Field Theory is an attempt to corellate all 4 forces into one set of priciples. So far it's not been successful)
Okay. Lecture's over. Where's my honorarium?
---Zoot
Colleen Thomas
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dr_mabeuse said:
I thought the unified theory that propsed the Em, strong and weak forces could be united on a sub atomic level were part of string theory?
Great article Mis
G
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Theory about G?Colleen Thomas said:I thought the unified theory that propsed the Em, strong and weak forces could be united on a sub atomic level were part of string theory?
Great article Mis
G
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Gravitational, electro-magnitic, time-space continuum, and micro-macro thermo nuclear forces.mismused said:
It's all philosophical.
thebullet
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This is embarrassing.
In one of my stories making reference to the fact that the government claimed that global warmings is 'bad science' one of my characters made the off-handed remark that the government is going to repeal the law of gravity.
And now it looks like they have! My bad.
In one of my stories making reference to the fact that the government claimed that global warmings is 'bad science' one of my characters made the off-handed remark that the government is going to repeal the law of gravity.
And now it looks like they have! My bad.
G
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No, it is not!thebullet said:
dr_mabeuse
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I haven't kept up with string theory, but the last version I heard wasn't very good. It wasn't testable, and so it wouldn't really qualify as a scientific theory. A real theory must have testable consequences and be falsifiable. String theory was beyond testing, and so all bets were off.
That was some time ago, though. I might be wrong now.
---dr.M.
That was some time ago, though. I might be wrong now.
---dr.M.
rgraham666
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Hell, doc. That's never stopped the economists.
dr_mabeuse
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rgraham666 said:
---Zoot
nushu2
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Thanks. This is turning into a weird porn site.
I vaguely recall a similar idea proposed that gravity at large distance does not decay as linearly. The formula may have to be revised for anything other than "short distance". Can't remember if I saw that on PBS or in Scientific American. Maybe it has a photon-like or quantum character.
They still haven't found gravitons, the particle that it supposed to be like photons for EM. Of course, since gravity is orders of magnitudes weaker than EM, it may take a while.
Dark matter and energy, string theory, and quantum gravity have only coincidental proof so far. They deserve to be studied and advanced but they're just theories, now. What I see, as a blathering idiot, is the problem with current theories is they blindly accept that space is a dead background instead of an active participant. "Nothing" may not be as it seems.
This may be the best layman's, like myself, explanation of string theory I've seen. It takes a while.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/
.
I vaguely recall a similar idea proposed that gravity at large distance does not decay as linearly. The formula may have to be revised for anything other than "short distance". Can't remember if I saw that on PBS or in Scientific American. Maybe it has a photon-like or quantum character.
They still haven't found gravitons, the particle that it supposed to be like photons for EM. Of course, since gravity is orders of magnitudes weaker than EM, it may take a while.
Dark matter and energy, string theory, and quantum gravity have only coincidental proof so far. They deserve to be studied and advanced but they're just theories, now. What I see, as a blathering idiot, is the problem with current theories is they blindly accept that space is a dead background instead of an active participant. "Nothing" may not be as it seems.
This may be the best layman's, like myself, explanation of string theory I've seen. It takes a while.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/
.
Seattle Zack
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I've read about six books on the "unified" string theory (the one proposed by Green) and the math seems to hold up. Gravity is such an interesting force, compared to things like electromagnetic attraction which is easily quantifiable and succeptible to mathematical equations.
One book I read posited that the major force of gravity "leaks" into other dimensions, and what remains is so weak as to be largely misunderstood by modern quantum physicists.
I love the purity of mathematics; it transcends even language. If we ever make contact with an alien civilization, it will be through math (Spielburg's notion of colored lights and a John Williams' score notwithstanding).
One book I read posited that the major force of gravity "leaks" into other dimensions, and what remains is so weak as to be largely misunderstood by modern quantum physicists.
I love the purity of mathematics; it transcends even language. If we ever make contact with an alien civilization, it will be through math (Spielburg's notion of colored lights and a John Williams' score notwithstanding).
Joe Wordsworth
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One of my better friends, Dr. B. Bolen, makes a lecture on the general area of theoretical physics (he's an astrophysicist), every year at a Sci-Fi convention. I know only as much as can be gleaned from light questions over lunch.
nushu2
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What bothers me about string theory is that it's another form of reductionism. When they were finding all those different quarks, I began to wonder if anything possible is probable.
I wish that there were more reputable physicist's challenging established ideas rather than following suit. Where's David Bohm when you need him.
It's not that I think quantum mechanics should be toppled. It's a wonderful model that has and continues to be the foundation of our knowledge. Many models can co-exist peacefully.
Seattle Zack wrote, "I love the purity of mathematics; it transcends even language."
Absolutely, math has the ability to be much more abstract. I had to leave when it got into infinite dimensional matrices. Had trouble following the procedures when I couldn't grasp the concept. That's one of my biggest regrets. It's a beautiful language that I wish I understood better. Not exactly one of the romance languages.
I wish that there were more reputable physicist's challenging established ideas rather than following suit. Where's David Bohm when you need him.
It's not that I think quantum mechanics should be toppled. It's a wonderful model that has and continues to be the foundation of our knowledge. Many models can co-exist peacefully.
Seattle Zack wrote, "I love the purity of mathematics; it transcends even language."
Absolutely, math has the ability to be much more abstract. I had to leave when it got into infinite dimensional matrices. Had trouble following the procedures when I couldn't grasp the concept. That's one of my biggest regrets. It's a beautiful language that I wish I understood better. Not exactly one of the romance languages.
Joe Wordsworth
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I would have to disagree. I think if we're to say physics is anywhere near the foundation of our knowledge (which is highly debateable), then I think it'd be easier to make a case for Newtonian physics being the foundation of our knowledge. Quantum physics just isn't the starting point for enough of applied or natural science, yet.
amicus
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From a lay viewpoint of one who has read and appreciated science fiction for a half century and one who tries to keep abreast of current research and development...I have a couple questions concerning the article.
I recently saw a program outlining the progress of the Voyager and if I recall it was, after many years, precisely where it should be.
Secondly I felt the explanations as to why data from other deep space probes could not validate the theory was weakly presented.
And finally, astronomical predictions concerning the position of the planets in this solar system have and continue to be accurate; i.e. everything is right where it ought to be.
Without a doubt, the interaction of gravitational forces macro and micro is beyond the capability of most to measure or even calculate, short or long term.
Not to be a doubting Thomas, but the recent voyage to Saturn and Jupiter depend on very precise mathematics as the vehicles use planetary gravity to plot the courses. No mention has been made of any anomalies in course projection in any of the active probe voyages.
The past fifty years has truly been an exciting time in the world of science and astrophysics, may the discoveries continue.
amicus...
I recently saw a program outlining the progress of the Voyager and if I recall it was, after many years, precisely where it should be.
Secondly I felt the explanations as to why data from other deep space probes could not validate the theory was weakly presented.
And finally, astronomical predictions concerning the position of the planets in this solar system have and continue to be accurate; i.e. everything is right where it ought to be.
Without a doubt, the interaction of gravitational forces macro and micro is beyond the capability of most to measure or even calculate, short or long term.
Not to be a doubting Thomas, but the recent voyage to Saturn and Jupiter depend on very precise mathematics as the vehicles use planetary gravity to plot the courses. No mention has been made of any anomalies in course projection in any of the active probe voyages.
The past fifty years has truly been an exciting time in the world of science and astrophysics, may the discoveries continue.
amicus...
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