newby looking for feedback

[cabin_fever]

Hi all, this is my second submission and am looking for some feedback.
"Joining the Quarter Mile Club" by Cabin_fever in the Romance section.
Thank you
CF

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Hi all, this is my second submission and am looking for some feedback.
"Joining the Quarter Mile Club" by Cabin_fever in the Romance section.
Thank you
CF

Link, Please. We are lazy.

 

[mjl2010]

Since I'm feeling generous and bored, I went and dug up your story link.

His Story is Here

Uh. All that work and I ran out of time. I'll be back later and have a read.

MJL

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Okay. Here goes.

I hate the first few paragraphs.

A cool Spring morning, when all the world is turning green again and a young man's mind turns to new beginnings and beautiful endings.

"It's a practically unused trail, too remote for most", I said to Kay. "Six miles with a 1400 ft elevation gain, an amazing view, and best of all, it's all ours."

"Great, let's get going. After this week, I need the workout" Kay smiled.

What the hell does the first paragraph have to do with the story? It's overly flowerly and nauseating. And why can't you find an editor who can teach you how to punctuate dialogue?

Corrected Version -

"It's a practically unused trail, too remote for most," I said to Kay. "Six miles with a 1400 ft elevation gain, an amazing view, and best of all it's all ours."

"Great, let's get going. After this week, I need the workout," Kay smiled.

Look, get the first few paragraphs perfect and you will get reads and the readers will forgive a lot of errors later.

Then in the following paragraph you wrote -

She looked so delicious in her tiny hiking boots, thick socks, and shorts that really showed off her legs, and a red fleece pullover - the one that makes me think of a line from that old song "Little Red Riding Hood." "You're everything a big bad wolf would want, Aaroooo."

Quotation marks are for dialogue. The name of the song should be in either italics or underlined.

Then later on you wrote -

An old song, Little Red Riding Hood. I forget who recorded it." I start singing the parts I remember.

Again Little Red Riding Hood should be in itallics or underlines. Incidentally, the original song was by Paul Revere & The Raiders.

A bit later I'm shaking my head. Look at this sequence (the Bold is mine to point out the error) -

I press my lips against hers, soft at first then harder, more insistent. She starts sucking on my tongue. My hands roam on her back, hampered by still having the fleece on. Her hands grabbing me, trying to pull my shorts down without even unbuckling them. She is hotter and more aggressive than ever. Hmmm, she seemed to really like me being tied-up. Have to remember that for a later time, or was it the tickling?

I finally free my hands of the fleece. I grab that ass my eyes have been staring at for the past mile. She sits up to take her shirt off. Her long black hair falls back onto her shoulders. She is sitting on my lap as I sit on the tree. "My own little wood nymph", I joke.

She unbuckles my shorts and says, "A nymph looking for some wood." She responds. "And I think I found some."

She slips off my lap kneeling in front of me and pulls my shorts down. My hard wood finally freed springs out, only to be trapped again in her waiting mouth. I groan my approval.

This is called repetition. You have dragged your story down a long hiway with the over use of pronouns. These people have names - use them. The story is written in 3rd person POV but here you have made a half-ass switch to almost 1st person. The reading just doesn't flow very well.

Overall you had a pretty good idea for a story. The pace isn't bad and the interaction between the characters seems good.

However, you have really long paragraphs in the second half of the story and the continuing punctuation errors just drove me nuts.

Find an editor. If you have one, get rid of him/her and find a new one. I'll give you a hint, there are two levels of editing. The first is for the mechanics - punctuation, grammar, structure etc. The second is content - how the story flows, does it make sense and so on.

And keep it up. It won't be too long before your wrting catches up to the quality of your ideas.

 

[Onida]

I have to agree with Ms. Jackson. The first paragraph doesn't really belong. It sounds like something out of a travel brochure. I understand the reason for it, but it was lost in the overdone wording. Best to just drop it. Start at the first quote. As Ms. Jackson stated, you need help with punctuation. She did a pretty good job of pointing out the foibles.

The story has a good feel to it. I think you have real potential as a writer. Might I suggest a writing course at the local community college. You might find it enjoyable. You might also look into a grammar class, just for good measure.

Keep it up. I see you doing good things soon.

 

[cabin_fever]

Thank you for your comments. I will work on it.

 

[sr71plt]

Tilt. Song titles are set in roman and enclosed in double quotation marks (Chicago Manual of Style, 8.202).

And quotation marks have uses that go beyond dialogue, e.g., for slang words/terms and words and phrases used as words (e.g. in the sentence: Common foreign words such as "amour-propre" and abbreviations such as "e.g." and "i.e" are not italicized.).

And nothing should be underlined in a finished story. The underlining only came into use in publishing because typewriters can't provide italics. Computers can, so underlining has no purpose anymore in finished work (although a good many publishers still require its use in raw manuscripts to denote italics. They are just being archaic, however).

LATER: I've gone back and scanned the story, and none of it is in 3rd person that I saw. All of it that I read is in 1st person, present tense (which is generally not a good idea--and didn't seem to be in this case).

I see Dick and Jane go into the room. -- 1st person, present tense

you see Dick and Jane go into the room -- 2nd person, present tense

They see (or he or she sees) Dick and Jane go into the room -- 3rd person, present tense.


Critique help is good--but not really completely helpful if some of it is inaccurate.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Tilt. Song titles are set in roman and enclosed in double quotation marks (Chicago Manual of Style, 8.202).

And quotation marks have uses that go beyond dialogue, e.g., for slang words/terms and words and phrases used as words (e.g. in the sentence: Common foreign words such as "amour-propre" and abbreviations such as "e.g." and "i.e" are not italicized.).

And nothing should be underlined in a finished story. The underlining only came into use in publishing because typewriters can't provide italics. Computers can, so underlining has no purpose anymore in finished work (although a good many publishers still require its use in raw manuscripts to denote italics. They are just being archaic, however).

LATER: I've gone back and scanned the story, and none of it is in 3rd person that I saw. All of it that I read is in 1st person, present tense (which is generally not a good idea--and didn't seem to be in this case).

I see Dick and Jane go into the room. -- 1st person, present tense

you see Dick and Jane go into the room -- 2nd person, present tense

They see (or he or she sees) Dick and Jane go into the room -- 3rd person, present tense.


Critique help is good--but not really completely helpful if some of it is inaccurate.

I'm sorry. I'm using the Harvard Style Book and the one I got from my Publisher. I notice that you tend to pick fights with a lot of people on Lit. Why don't you concider carefully before blowing it out your ass.

Obviously you didn't even bother to look what this thread was about. Instead you ignorantly took it upon yourself to completely ignore the fact that this person was looking for honest feedback on his story in a phoney attempt to pet your overinflated ego by interjecting your ignorance.

It didn't work. You showed yourself to be exactly what everyone is say about you.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm sorry. I'm using the Harvard Style Book and the one I got from my Publisher. I notice that you tend to pick fights with a lot of people on Lit. Why don't you concider before blowing it out your ass.

Sorry, I don't have the Harvard Style Book (which is a pretty weird "authority" to be using for fiction anyway)--but I certainly will go look it up. Because no guide I know of is different on rendering song titles and POV is standard. (You've given bum advice on this before.)

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm trying to give valid advice on writing.

People here can pick and choose whose advice they take--in fact, I suggest they check it out themselves. The use of POV is clearly covered all over the Internet. I cited the authority down to the rule number for how to render song titles.

 

[sr71plt]

Do you have a citation on the Harvard Style Book (print or online) and its specific rule on rendering of song titles, Jenny? What is available on line has no guidance at all about song titles--only about longer muscial works, which, of course, are italcized. And I can find no reference to an in-print "Harvard Style Book" on Amazon.com Thanks.

While you’re looking, you might check these references out on how to render song titles:

http://desktoppub.about.com/b/2003/07/12/singing-quotations-how-to-properly-reference-song-titles.htm

http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/021002.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(music)

Do you need references to discussions on point of view too?

 

[sr71plt]

I'm sorry. I'm using the Harvard Style Book and the one I got from my Publisher. I notice that you tend to pick fights with a lot of people on Lit. Why don't you concider carefully before blowing it out your ass.

Obviously you didn't even bother to look what this thread was about. Instead you ignorantly took it upon yourself to completely ignore the fact that this person was looking for honest feedback on his story in a phoney attempt to pet your overinflated ego by interjecting your ignorance.

It didn't work. You showed yourself to be exactly what everyone is say about you.

The difference between us apparently is that accuracy matters to me when trying to help a poster--even knowing the crap I'm going to get for doing so. You gave bum advice. I'm sorry if you (and any gang you can muster up) can't stand losing face over giving advice on matters you haven't mastered.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Interesting how after three more posts you are still far more interested in showing how really fucking smart you think you are rather than giving this newbie your thoughts on his story.

This forum is NOT for you, it's for the writers who have posted and need to know what they can do to improve. Your example is exactly what is NOT needed here.

Now go away.

 

[sr71plt]

I did give cabin_fever help--I corrected bum guidance given and I indicated that 1st person POV, present tense probably wasn't a good idea for the presentation technique. There's nothing wrong with using 1st person POV (in fact, I prefer it for erotica myself because of its intimacy). The main issue here seemed to be using the present tense along with 1st person POV, which is excruciating to maintain in writing and usually equally excruciating for the reader to read. Certainly, I didn't go beyond that, because I didn't read the story to assess it--I don't give critiques on fiction I don't read all the way through. And I come here as a break from book editing, not as an extension of it. I only looked at the story because I saw bum advice given, and then when I scanned it I saw more bum advice having been given. And I rechecked my own understanding before I posted and I cited my source.

I didn't turn this to the personal level, Jennie. You did. cabin_fever got bum advice. I invited the wrath of you and the other "regulars" (although that doesn't seem to have materialized . . . yet) by trying to correct the bum advice (and I didn't call you names in the process). And I invited/invite anyone to check the points I addressed out for themselves.

We seem to have the opposite perspective on who was helping cabin_fever here and who wasn't. Fine. Now, though, if anyone wants to know the truth of the advice given, they certainly have been signaled that they should check it out for themselves.

And, yes, the next time I see a "non-regular" given advice that my training and research tells me leads them down the wrong path, I'll mention it. I'm not cowed by the Internet phenomena of (A) being easily able to exhibit expertise on a chat board that you don't have--as long as you are one of the revered "regulars," and (B) making "face" more important than accuracy ("it was just a newby" and I'm a canonized "regular"), and (C) doing the lemming thing--being willing to follow a cyber chum over the cliff just to maintain and exercise alliances.

 

[GratefulFred]

You guys have got to stop fighting.

Make sex not words!

cabin_fever just needs a bit of encouragement to write some good romance.

If anyone wants to know true romance they should read my first attempt.

Always Shower First
http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=335410

 

[sr71plt]

You guys have got to stop fighting.

Make sex not words!

cabin_fever just needs a bit of encouragement to write some good romance.

If anyone wants to know true romance they should read my first attempt.

Always Shower First
http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=335410

Hmmm. I've been warned that one bites back.

 

[MarshAlien]

Do you guys do bar mitzvahs?

 

[Guest]

You've been given some terrific advice on this thread, cabin. At first glance Jenny may seem a bit abrasive but she's honest and gives solid critique from her heart.

Good luck with your writing and rewriting - we all have to do it. It's the only way to improve.

 

[sr71plt]

Do you guys do bar mitzvahs?

Possibly. Could you hum a couple of bars?

 

[GratefulFred]

Do you guys do bar mitzvahs?

...So long as you pay me in Shekels. The shrinking dollar excahange rate blows!

 

[mjl2010]

You've been given some terrific advice on this thread, cabin. At first glance Jenny may seem a bit abrasive but she's honest and gives solid critique from her heart.

Good luck with your writing and rewriting - we all have to do it. It's the only way to improve.

Yeah Jenny only bites if you're worth the time.

If you're not worth the time, run.

MJL

 

[Guest]

The difference between us apparently is that accuracy matters to me when trying to help a poster--even knowing the crap I'm going to get for doing so. You gave bum advice. I'm sorry if you (and any gang you can muster up) can't stand losing face over giving advice on matters you haven't mastered.

Using wiki as a style reference?

Oh dear. That's almost as good as comparing netspeak to Shakespeare.

 

[sr71plt]

Using wiki as a style reference?

Oh dear. That's almost as good as comparing netspeak to Shakespeare.

Only one of four (against none that I could discern). I certainly wouldn't use it for my own purposes (I use Chicago Manual of Style 15 for humanities works--which is what I cited, including the rule number, before I was called ignorant)--but here apparently you have to evidence on a much lower level. Strunk and White seems the favorite here, but says nothing on this issue.

And so, do you agree or disagree that song titles should be in roman inside double quotes--or are you also trying to avoid the real issue? (Dollars to donuts you are just sniping and won't weigh in on the actual issue.)

 

[Guest]

Only one of four (against none that I could discern). I certainly wouldn't use it for my own purposes (I use Chicago Manual of Style 15 for humanities works--which is what I cited, including the rule number, before I was called ignorant)--but here apparently you have to evidence on a much lower level. Strunk and White seems the favorite here, but says nothing on this issue.

And so, do you agree or disagree that song titles should be in roman inside double quotes--or are you also trying to avoid the real issue? (Dollars to donuts you are just sniping and won't weigh in on the actual issue.)

I believe the issue here is that the OP was asking for feedback, not a style debate.

Requested feedback - I quite enjoyed your story, CP, plot and pacing were great. I do agree, however, that FPPT really is challenging to do in a way that makes it enjoyable for the reader. I have tried it myself and now cringe when I read it. As for technical issues and critique of them - *shrug* not qualified.

Sr71putz..neither am I qualified to comment on style issues, therefore I bow out. If you insist on me weighing in on your issue to validate educational pedigree, you're out of luck. I may not be a college showdog, but I am well aware that Wikipidia is an extremely poor source to reference for information as it is riddled with inaccuracies, outright lies, and entries by self-important and often ignorant blowhards. Granted, you have other sources, but in trotting out one's bloodlines it is generally advisable to make sure the bitch was pure, eh?

Hey - that was a metaphor, wasn't it?

 

[sr71plt]

I believe the issue here is that the OP was asking for feedback, not a style debate.

Requested feedback - I quite enjoyed your story, CP, plot and pacing were great. I do agree, however, that FPPT really is challenging to do in a way that makes it enjoyable for the reader. I have tried it myself and now cringe when I read it. As for technical issues and critique of them - *shrug* not qualified.

Sr71putz..neither am I qualified to comment on style issues, therefore I bow out. If you insist on me weighing in on your issue to validate educational pedigree, you're out of luck. I may not be a college showdog, but I am well aware that Wikipidia is an extremely poor source to reference for information as it is riddled with inaccuracies, outright lies, and entries by self-important and often ignorant blowhards. Granted, you have other sources, but in trotting out one's bloodlines it is generally advisable to make sure the bitch was pure, eh?

Hey - that was a metaphor, wasn't it?

Ah, just sniping, then.

The issue I brought up was that Jenny gave bum advice--which I corrected for cabin_fever's sake. And then Jenny decided that her revered position was being assailed (and never has addressed the bum advice she gave). I still haven't seen anyone show more concern that the requester got bum advice on the points I posted than that you are chums with Jenny, cabin_fever be damned.

I trotted out the premier style authority from the get go. Then, after that was ignored and I was called ignorant, I just cited everything quickly available on the Internet that gave the same advice (finding none that backed up with Jenny said).

You obviously are just sniping. (You at least acknowledged that you aren't a style authority--just want to snipe for old chums sake.)

The issue had just been dropped by both Jenny and me. Interesting that you want to pursue. Well, pursue ahead, if you like.

 

[mjl2010]

Ah, just sniping, then.

The issue I brought up was that Jenny gave bum advice--which I corrected for cabin_fever's sake. And then Jenny decided that her revered position was being assailed (and never has addressed the bum advice she gave). I still haven't seen anyone show more concern that the requester got bum advice on the points I posted than that you are chums with Jenny, cabin_fever be damned.

I trotted out the premier style authority from the get go. Then, after that was ignored and I was called ignorant, I just cited everything quickly available on the Internet that gave the same advice (finding none that backed up with Jenny said).

You obviously are just sniping. (You at least acknowledged that you aren't a style authority--just want to snipe for old chums sake.)

The issue had just been dropped by both Jenny and me. Interesting that you want to pursue. Well, pursue ahead, if you like.

Snort Obviously since you can't change the font type in a story submission it's a moot point isn't it. You can cite your style guide all you want, but if the writer has no option to use the Roman Font, what point is there to it?

Since you are obviously so knowledgeable on writing and submissions here at Lit, clearly you'd know this little fact. The writer then has the option of using italics or underline to cite a title or reference.

I found it especially annoying that you couldn't find the Harvard Style Reference. Wikipedia which you cited, and is a piece of crap anyway, does have plenty on it. Not to mention a simple google on "Harvard Style" gives you plenty and it turns out, Jenny is correct on that use of Italics for a title.

As for which style is preferred here on Lit, I'm glad you've decided to be the foremost authority on that. Be sure to let Laurel know and post your email publicly so that everyone who doesn't own a copy of the style guide can ask you for advice. Oh I forgot. You only get paid for that.

I usually ignore your snobbish asinine behavior, but today the shit is just leaking from your ears and I wanted to point it out.

Have a nice life

MJL