Newbie author help (with epic bus sex)

[Gorza]

Hello! I'm new to the site. Although I have read through all the FAQs and guidelines I can find, I still have a few questions that I would appreciate a bit of experienced advice please.

[size=+1]1. Chapters, pages and story length[/size]
I have written a short story that naturally falls into two parts. The first part is in pretty good shape, and I think it's ready for submission. If a reader would like to check whether it's any good, I would be happy to send the draft. I notice the stories are divided into chapters and pages, but I cannot understand whether the author or the site controls how a story is divided on the site. Although I can see the 750-word minimum limit, I cannot find advice on how large pages, chapters or other chunks of text should be. My first part stands at just over 5,500 words. Any advice on this would be great, as I would like my text to be well presented for reading on screen.

[size=+1]2. Choosing the right category[/size]
I am also having difficultly knowing to which category to submit my story. I realise that correct categorization is important to the site, but I don't know which category would be the best fit. So, this requires a quick precis:

I had to write up a true and happy memory to share, with a few details changed to anonymize it. In my twenties, I met a young woman (I'm a man) on a long bus journey across Ireland. We kept each other company on the boring ride, and ended up having sex a few times on the back seat of the coach. It was an amazing experience, and we never saw each other again.​

I first thought that this should go under erotic couplings, but I read that that is a rather vanilla, fluffy board, and perhaps not the best place to put a story of epic bus sex. Exhibitionist & voyeur sounds promising, but we had sex on the bus because that was the only place we ever were together, and didn't want attention (except for a brief moment near the end), so that board doesn't feel quite right. Likewise, we did have some anal sex, but the story really doesn't fit under anal. None of the other categories fit.

[size=+1]3. Is it ever OK to write dialect?[/size]
Finally, I have written the young woman's dialogue in dialect to reflect her Irish accent. It sounds right to me, but then I know how she spoke, and I don't know whether it reads right. I would hate for someone to be put off by reading a ridiculous accent from what I've written. I'm tempted to edit the accent out, but would appreciate advice on this too.

Sorry for the multi-part question. All thoughts welcome.

 

[HeyAll]

RE: Catagory

I think exhibitionist/voyeur has more readers that the other two you've mentioned. So it might be best to stick it there.

 

[CharlieB4]

Hi Gorza,

Story length is entirely up to you, if it's a cracker then people will keep reading but I try to keep mine to around 12-15000 which usually works out around four pages. If I get to 20000 and I have t finished then I generally split it and submit it in two parts. It's a good idea to have both parts finished and submit them together that way they are generally posted close together otherwise readers won't bother with part two.

When reading other stories I can be turned off when they run to 7-10 pages but that's just me. When you submit a story the site automatically sets the page length in a preview you get to see that before you finally submit it.

Where to post? Unless you are targeting the exhibition/voyeur audience I'd stick with erotic couplings. Yes most of the stories are more vanilla there but if E/V is only a small part of the story then it won't help your scores if you place it there. Make sure you indicate the E/V in the tags as well as the anal and if someone is searching for that kink through the tags they pick it up there.

As for the Irish dialect, my suggestion would be to run it past one of the volunteer editors. The majority are pretty good at helping out with that stuff. I always use one but my spelling and grammar always need a lot of help. Go to the volunteer editors section, click on full list and start reading their blurbs. I'd suggest you try and find one from the UK if you want them to understand the Irish part. Also make sure you contact a few, many are quite busy and can't help every request.
Be polite because they are volunteers and always read through all their edits. I found out the hard way that your story can get seriously messed up if you're not careful.

Again my personal preference would be to leave the Irish in because part of the joy of a good story is to be transported to a different place and experience something new.

Good luck

CharlieB4

 

[sr71plt]

On 1: The author decides the split. Three Lit. pages (less than 11,500 words) is probably the best compromise on what the majority of readers like to see in a chapter. A chapter should be able to be read at one sitting. In today's world, few can hold still long enough to read 12,000 words at a go (which is why the 20,000 word short story of yesteryear has turned into the average now in the mainstream of 3,000 words).

On 2: It probably would be OK in exhibitionism/voyeur and seen by more than in the hodge-podge Erotic Coupling category, although, from your description, it doesn't really fit. If no one else sees them having sex on the bus it's not really exhibitionism and if your protagonist is having the sex rather than watching it, it isn't really voyeur either. That still might be the best place to put it in terms of ratings/readers. (I've been putting some in the Anal category recently but the readership is small and pretty silent in response.)

On 3: I'd advise to go light on the dialect--flavor only. Fiction is like stagecraft. Stage settings/costumes/props are broad brush and more designed to convey impressions and mood from the external perspective than to give precise detail. Fiction doesn't really literally transpose what people actually say into dialogue. If it did, it would be gibberish. The same goes for dialect. you want to convey their nationality and provide flavor, not make it indecipherable or hard going for a reader not of that nationality (which will be most of your readers).

 

[SikFuk]

Perhaps you could mention how her dialect clips her words or twists her vowels without actually typing it out phonetically.

 

[Handley_Page]

Hello! I'm new to the site. Although I have read through all the FAQs and guidelines I can find, I still have a few questions that I would appreciate a bit of experienced advice please.

Sorry for the multi-part question. All thoughts welcome.

1. Chapters, pages and story length
A Lit page holds about 3500 words, so if your part 2 is about the same, you'll do about 3 Lit pages.
Many consider this to be a goodish length for a quick read.
You have little control on how it looks on the screen, and the engine has its own ideas on 'normal'

2. Choosing the right category
A lot seems to depend upon how you regard your stories and your approach to Lit.
Some authors seem to get very worried about how many views /stars /favourites it earns, but I take the view that its a free site, nobody pays to read it, so if the comments are at least favourable, you've won.
Whilst it is possible that your story might be regarded by the Editors as in a particular category, you can make a start by saying where You think it should go [this caused me some grief].

3. Is it ever OK to write dialect?
There are several 'views' on this subject. Personally, I feel a gentle hint of an accent (common words etc.). I suggest you look at the Sister Fidelma stories by PETER TREMAYNE. These are set in the 7th century Eire, and you'll see how he handles the accents.

 

[Gorza]

Thank you all for your help.

Story length is entirely up to you, if it's a cracker then people will keep reading but I try to keep mine to around 12-15000 which usually works out around four pages. If I get to 20000 and I have t finished then I generally split it and submit it in two parts. It's a good idea to have both parts finished and submit them together that way they are generally posted close together otherwise readers won't bother with part two.

When reading other stories I can be turned off when they run to 7-10 pages but that's just me. When you submit a story the site automatically sets the page length in a preview you get to see that before you finally submit it.

The author decides the split. Three Lit. pages (less than 11,500 words) is probably the best compromise on what the majority of readers like to see in a chapter. A chapter should be able to be read at one sitting. In today's world, few can hold still long enough to read 12,000 words at a go (which is why the 20,000 word short story of yesteryear has turned into the average now in the mainstream of 3,000 words).

A Lit page holds about 3500 words, so if your part 2 is about the same, you'll do about 3 Lit pages.
Many consider this to be a goodish length for a quick read.
You have little control on how it looks on the screen, and the engine has its own ideas on 'normal'

All of this is very helpful, and I understand the slight differences in views about length.

It is looking like both parts will come to three or four Lit pages. It's annoying that there's no control over where the page turns come, seeing as we're in the business of writing about build up and climaxes. Do the breaks just get inserted at the nearest paragraph break? If so, I could manage the paragraphs in such a way that the page breaks fall well.

Is then the division into chapters controlled by authors? Would there be any point submitting the story in its two natural parts as chapters 1 and 2, with each being two pages long, or should I submit a unified 3/4-page piece?

Unless you are targeting the exhibition/voyeur audience I'd stick with erotic couplings. Yes most of the stories are more vanilla there but if E/V is only a small part of the story then it won't help your scores if you place it there. Make sure you indicate the E/V in the tags as well as the anal and if someone is searching for that kink through the tags they pick it up there.

It probably would be OK in exhibitionism/voyeur and seen by more than in the hodge-podge Erotic Coupling category, although, from your description, it doesn't really fit. If no one else sees them having sex on the bus it's not really exhibitionism and if your protagonist is having the sex rather than watching it, it isn't really voyeur either. That still might be the best place to put it in terms of ratings/readers. (I've been putting some in the Anal category recently but the readership is small and pretty silent in response.)

I think exhibitionist/voyeur has more readers that the other two you've mentioned. So it might be best to stick it there.

A lot seems to depend upon how you regard your stories and your approach to Lit.
Some authors seem to get very worried about how many views /stars /favourites it earns, but I take the view that its a free site, nobody pays to read it, so if the comments are at least favourable, you've won.
Whilst it is possible that your story might be regarded by the Editors as in a particular category, you can make a start by saying where You think it should go [this caused me some grief].

I think the amalgamated wisdom is that it would be misleading advertising of the story to put it in E/V if it doesn't focus on exhibitionism, but that category gets a wider readership than EC. It seems there's a balance to be struck here. It's not about earning stars, but it would be good to see a lot of people reading the story and enjoying it. E/V gives the numbers, but might not please readers if it doesn't have enough exhibitionism in it. As I write the second part, I am now consciously writing up the exhibitionist content of the story, realising that presenting it in a certain way will appeal more to readers delving into that category. So, I think that's the solution.

As for the Irish dialect, my suggestion would be to run it past one of the volunteer editors. The majority are pretty good at helping out with that stuff. I always use one but my spelling and grammar always need a lot of help. Go to the volunteer editors section, click on full list and start reading their blurbs. I'd suggest you try and find one from the UK if you want them to understand the Irish part. Also make sure you contact a few, many are quite busy and can't help every request.
Be polite because they are volunteers and always read through all their edits. I found out the hard way that your story can get seriously messed up if you're not careful.

Again my personal preference would be to leave the Irish in because part of the joy of a good story is to be transported to a different place and experience something new.

I'd advise to go light on the dialect--flavor only. Fiction is like stagecraft. Stage settings/costumes/props are broad brush and more designed to convey impressions and mood from the external perspective than to give precise detail. Fiction doesn't really literally transpose what people actually say into dialogue. If it did, it would be gibberish. The same goes for dialect. you want to convey their nationality and provide flavor, not make it indecipherable or hard going for a reader not of that nationality (which will be most of your readers).

Perhaps you could mention how her dialect clips her words or twists her vowels without actually typing it out phonetically.

There are several 'views' on this subject. Personally, I feel a gentle hint of an accent (common words etc.). I suggest you look at the Sister Fidelma stories by PETER TREMAYNE. These are set in the 7th century Eire, and you'll see how he handles the accents.

All fairly much in agreement. When I tried writing the character of Aoife in dialect, she came across a little too stereotypically Irish, so I've gone for a focus on her choice of vocabulary and syntax, with a bit of description. One of her first bits of speech is

"Do you mind if I join you back here? I just like sitting at the back, so I do." She was well spoken, but her voice was musical — not the music of a symphony, but a fiddle band. It made me smile.​

Then I have a few lines like

"So, Mark, me young fella, were you getting an eyeful of me tits just then, or just watching out in case I fell over like?" Her directness flustered me, but it was too late to deny it.​

and

"What do you expect when you suck head, but jism on you face!" And her accent bubbled and hissed 'fehss'.​

She's supposed to sound like a well-educated young woman from the south west of Ireland, which is fairly specific. I hope she doesn't sound ridiculous.

 

[LWulf]

As more of a reader, than writer, I'll say I like long stories, the longer the better. I've read up to fifteen pages easy (here) and one story was fifteen chapters and about 8 pages per chapter. However, if you are going to do anything like that, you better make sure you hone your writing craft well and give a proper BANG! at the end (a climactic, not wimpy ending).

I wouldn't worry about staging the divisions between pages that much. While that's good showmanship, and maybe it's applaud-able that you care, I wouldn't stress it too much.

You simply have to submit two entries for chapters, which brings up a touchy subject for me; making chapters. There isn't any directions on doing it and when I was trying to make mine, I tried putting it into various different categories to get a chapter list in my story listings until someone finally told me it's all about how you make the title!! (and I believe that person was Oggbashen)
(e.g. "My Story" would be written as "My Story - Chapter 1")
then simply resubmit a second submission entitled "My Story - Chapter 2"

That's all you have to do to make up chapters.

****

I believe someone said the Literotica standard for breaking scenes within a chapter is four astrix.

****

One of my favorite authors was David Eddings. He dabbled with dialects. There was only a few times when I actually said "Huh? What?" Most times I read emphasized text with ease and while some writers are skeerd of using it, I don't see it as a negative element unless you push the limit too far. The question remains "How far is too far?" Well, you'll never know that limit without trying and after you have, you'll be the better story teller for it.

"What's the matter, laddie?" Does that sound Scottish?
"Whut's th' matter, laddie?" Now doesn't that sound more Scottish?

Now, that's for spoken text. Internal dialogue can go that route or you can go dialect-less.
When you are monologuing with descriptions of vistas and scenes, it would be best to leave that dialect-neutral, unless you're using a character to describe it.

I'm not going to say it's a bad idea to use descriptions to explain a dialect because that would be seeking to limit creativity, but I believe a reader has a tendency to revert to dialect-neutral without follow up descriptions whenever the character speaks. Adding in a few phonetically enhanced words would limit the need to explain and remind the reader of her accent.

Readers aren't really all that ignorant. If you develop a syntax and allow them time to adjust to how you write it and don't douse them with it, they will adjust just fine.
Trust me, people here will bitch and complain like whiny little babies if they can't understand it. Just remember, you can always update a file with an edited and revised script.

Have you ever watched the American TV series "Leverage?" In one episode, one character, Sophie, is speaking with her 'normal' speaking voice which is a soft British accent. Then they switch to her four teammates version of what happened, where you see her speaking in Scottish, German and I think Welsh resulting with her saying "I hate you all. Don't you Americans hear anything but one accent?" (Yes, I believe she said "accents" and not the proper "dialects")
Sadly, I think you can't convey to a reader who has never heard a southern Irish accent how that definitively sounds with any phonetics, so it might just be best to explain that in spoon-fed fashion.

Personally I would write your last example as:
"What d'yu expect when yu suck head, but jism on yur face?"

and Yes, I did change it to a question because Irish tends to go up at the end which indicates a question, even though you know it is meant as a statement. Also it starts off with "what."

However, I have no clue what 'fehss' means. I suppose it sounds like the Yiddish "feh!" which is more of a sound that is spat out, rather than a word. It basically means great displeasure. You might want to explain it like that when it is first used (however it is meant, that is), then rely on the reader to remember that in subsequent uses (if any).

By the way, if you DO use dialects or accents phonetically, I suggest you put a text message into the appropriate box to alert Laurel that "misspellings" are in attendance to describe dialects, otherwise, she might correct them (or more likely bounce it back and tell you to use a spell check next time). She isn't cruel and understands creativity but you have to tell her it IS creativity and NOT simple error.
I hope my rambling helps.

 

[LWulf]

...Just remember, you can always update a file with an edited and revised script...

though it's probably best not to abuse that right.

 

[sr71plt]

It is looking like both parts will come to three or four Lit pages. It's annoying that there's no control over where the page turns come, seeing as we're in the business of writing about build up and climaxes. Do the breaks just get inserted at the nearest paragraph break? If so, I could manage the paragraphs in such a way that the page breaks fall well.

Is then the division into chapters controlled by authors? Would there be any point submitting the story in its two natural parts as chapters 1 and 2, with each being two pages long, or should I submit a unified 3/4-page piece?

No, the author doesn't control the page breaks (in fact, in publishing, the author has no control over design or formatting at all). In a mainstream publication, the author isn't consulted about this either. The Lit. pages do break at a given paragraph break, though.

The division into chapters is controlled by the author, because it's however the author submit chapters. It's completely up to you on whether you submit two chapters in one three/four Lit. page piece (but it would be messy on how to title them) or in two separate, two-Lit.-page chapter takes. I've occasionally combined chapters, if one of the original chapters was very short, but then that's thrown off the chapter count so that the Lit. version doesn't have as many chapters as the published version does--not a particularly big problem, though.

 

[SikFuk]

...
Is then the division into chapters controlled by authors? Would there be any point submitting the story in its two natural parts as chapters 1 and 2, with each being two pages long, or should I submit a unified 3/4-page piece?...

In my four-page Summer Lovin' story (that I should be submitting right now, instead of dicking around here) the first section is subtitled "The Church." Halfway through the piece, the second section is subtitled "The Lake". I just stuck the subtitles up there as a separate sentence with no special formatting. It was either that or use the ****, but I like the subtitles better, at least in this case. If the piece was longer, say 3 or 4 LIT pages for each section, I might have submitted chapters, but it's really not necessary. I believe the last contest winning story (Nude Day) was seven or eight LIT pages long. Longer stories seem to get higher scores, since the disaffected readers fall way before they reach the end where the voting takes place.

Some writers submit chapters because they're writing the next chapter while the current chapter is being read. Personally, I don't like chaptered stories. I like to see conflict and resolution in one story. After that, theoretically, the characters have changed due to their experiences, and there's nothing left to write about. That said, I'm working on a 3-chapter piece right now because the protag just won't give up. He's a fool, but an entertaining one.

 

[Gorza]

Thank you for everyone's help getting me started. I'm glad to announce that the story has just been approved and is now Exploring the Ring of Kerry.