New writer looking for feedback

[Knoxville]

I have posted a few stories on the site and am looking for some feedback and/or ideas.

The One Where Monica Gets Caught Ch. 1
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=52123

The One Where Monica Gets Caught Ch. 2
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=53379

Spinning Around
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=52159

 

[the_bragis]

Feedback/ideas

Hi Knoxville,

I chose to read Monica Chapter one.

Let me tell you this before I say anything else. The other half of the Bragis just can't get enough of these hot lesbian stories, he really can't. ~laughing~

Ok, your story. It was, I think, too short. This is how I would have liked to have seen it stretched out.

A description of Rachel spying on one of Monica's previous encounters would have been hot, and could have given the reader a good inside into both women, particularly Rachel.

A little more detail about Monica's awkwardness about being caught, and maybe even details of her begging Rachel not to tell her boyfriend. Dialog here, I think would have really put some extra heat into your story. Monica seemed to submit to Rachel so easily here, and, the reader is not told how or why.

Rachel was now begging Monica to let her cum.
Or ... "Oh please, please may this little slut cum?" dialog really does bring a story to life.
...covered Rachel's face in her juices
Again details please! I saw a number of times when I felt juicy (oh please excuse the pun) details were missing.

Monica did as she was told and slowly pulled the huge vegetable out of her hot snatch still dripping with her juices. While Monica did this Rachel was quickly getting out of the black mini-skirt and shirt she'd been wearing leaving her standing in her black lacy Bra, G-string, stockings and suspenders.

I know I just said I would have like your story to have been longer, but sentences like this one don't work well. Watch out for them when you are reading your finished work, because they can 'clutter' up a good story.

Consider this shorter version.

Monica did as she was told, slowly pulling the huge vegetable out of her hot dripping snatch, as Rachel quickly got out of the black mini-skirt and shirt, leaving her standing in her black lacy Bra, G-string, stockings and suspenders.

It's the same message, just less verbose.

"I don't remember saying you could finger yourself as well" Rachel said sternly. "I'm sorry," Monica said in an innocent sounding voice "I'm just want to cum so badly."

I noticed this throughout your story, and while it's not a big deal, every new lot of dialog needs a new paragraph. It just makes it easier to read. You need punctuation after each piece of dialog too. Again it's not a big deal, but if you're striving to be your best, do it.

Overall, I thought it's a good read, well done.


Have a great day,

Alex(fem)

 

[Guest]

Monica this, Monica that

Um, . . . . Well . . . . .what the_bragis said.

The only other thing I might add. If you take the story "Monica Gets Caught 1" and you disregard the paragraphs that start with dialogue, every single paragraph starts with a Personal Pronoun -- or one pronoun in one case.

So this is how your story reads by the first two words of each paragraph.

Rachel walked

Monica was

<dialogue>

Monica did

<dialogue>

Monica leaned

<dialogue>

Rachel gazed

Monica decided

Rachel collapsed

She thought

Monica was

My suggestion would be to read as much as you can and notice how others construct stories, particularly from those writers and those stories that you liked a lot. Deconstruct them. Mentally make notations about what the paragraphs are doing. Are they description? narration? exposition? or dialogue? That sort of thing. Be cognizant of how they start the paragraph and why.

You need to mix it up. And to do that would require the story to be slightly more complex.

For me, I voted your story a 2. I liked the basic idea -- though I felt more like eating a salad afterwards than masturbating -- hey you wanted an idea, why don't you have Monica fix a salad after she pulls out that "huge vegetable".

The lack of development and difficulties with structure pretty much crippled your story. I do feel you have a competent feel for the sexual heat and that whole sexual thing -- it was done relatively well for a new writer and as good as any number of others I've read..

Just keep reading


B Tease

PS oh one other thing, why was this classified under Celebrities?

 

[NoJo]

Rachel gazed

Monica decided

Rachel collapsed

I must tell you, that without even reading the story, just from reading these two word paragraph starters, I'm intrigued.

Unregistered,

I really didn't like your post -- it didn't really appear that you wre trying to be helpful, more like you were trying to score points.

And why did you vote 2? That's just forcing fewer people to read it, which is just mean.

Are you an English teacher? If so, you should know that making a "notation" is a poor use of English. I think you mean "annotation", or simply "note".

You gave the author only vague suggestions for improvement, which indicate to me that possibly you're not quite clear how to constuct a story yourself -- in any case there is no "right way." You yourself need to broaden your own reading, perhaps.

You should recognize the difference between your subjective erotic taste in stories -- 90% of stories here fail to turn on 90% of readers, I'd guess -- as opposed to constructive suggestions to authors of how they could have been more effective in telling their story, using their own style more effectively.

Also, given the tone of your post, it's pretty hard to take your suggested "idea" as anything but facetious.

 

[Guest]

5, 4, 3, . . . . . too what?

The scale is there -- one to five. I intend to use it. If 1 and 2 are off limits or meaningless, why do we have them? The wanted an honest opinion, I gave it to them. As for it being unhelpful -- that's you take. Hey I got an idea, since you are reviewing the reviews, why don't you go ahead and vote on the review; but keep in mind, personally I would be sorely disappointed if you would never consider the numbers 1 or 2 in the full range of your vote. It's just an opinion, just like yours.

Bodacious Tease

 

[NoJo]

1, 2

I would guess that 1 and 2 are mostly used by people who might actually find a story sick or offensve, or by people who are struggling to get past a 1 or 2 vote on their own self-worth, or tactically by people who are trying to get another story higher in the voting scale. Or by people who just like clicking on radio-buttons, the way people enjoy marking restaurant service questionaires, usually going down the list ticking all the "Not good enough" boxes, like Bart Simpson.

Trouble is, people take it personally. I don't regard literotica as a competition. I guess some people do.

Think of it this way, if you like some music, you might "vote" by buying the record. But unless you have something else to gain from it, why "diss" music you don't like? Just don't buy the stuff you don't like. Votes less than 3 are negative. But you can get the stuff you like popular without voting negatively for stuff you DONT like.

 

[Guest]

Siskle over Ebert anyday

I'm a big fan of good reviewers. I really felt a sadness when Gene Siskel died in 1999. I suspicion from your time stamp you must be from the UK so maybe you don't know who he was. He wrote movie reviews for the Chicago Tribune but was famous for his syndicated Television show with his partner Roger Ebert -- the team was called "Siskle and Ebert". Their reviews would come out "thumbs up" or "Thumbs Down" and the best, of course, was when both thought the movie worthy they would give "Two Thumbs Up".

You see, I liked Gene Siskel because, in my opinion, he told it the way he saw it. I didn't always agree with him, nor did I expect to always agree with him, but I respected where he was coming from. Roger Ebert, on the other hand, sort of liked everything, at least that's how I saw it, and as a result his reviews became absolutely meaningless to me -- they still are meaningless to me. I didn't know where he is coming from at all because he is too sensitive to feelings and seemed to worry more about personalities more than about the Art. Ebert, in an article I once read, said that, through the years, as he got closer to the people who where making these movies, it became extremely hard to give a bad review knowing the cost that his review might inflict in terms of money and career.

Another reviewer, from the town where I live, would give reviews on a scale of 4 stars with half star intervals. He said once he found out adults wouldn't go to a movie that he hadn't given 3 or more stars to, he started giving more 3 stars reviews. He felt people should see more movies and he didn't want them to limit themselves to the few he had given good reviews to.

Did that get more people to see more movies? Of corse it didn't. All he managed was delude his own credibility.

Hey, I'm just being honest. I have great empathy for writers, that's why I take the time to write. I'm sorry you think my intent is malicious -- but you couldn't be more wrong. If I'm true to my own feelings, I believe most people will respect that. If they don't -- hey -- they are entitled to their opinion, just like you are.

1 and 2 equals sick or offensive?

LOL

I don't know. Obviously you have a much tighter interpretation of 1 to 5 than I do. I'm not looking to torpedo anyone. If it's only praise people are looking for, maybe they should seek it under the writers hangout instead of Story Feedback. Personally I grow more from constructive criticism than from praise.

Heck, at least I'm honest and open about my vote. I'm not trying to hide anything. If the writer will only listen to me if I only give a vote of more than 3 -- hey -- that's their prerogative. At least they know what I voted. I personally think that is of help.

We all have to face the facts that there are two, sometimes very different, objectives at .literotica.com. One is to get off, and another is to write well. Hopefully they are the same, but if they aren't I tend to lean towards the "write well" portion. If you haven't understood that from my other reviews yet, then you will never understand my reviews.

Bodacious Tease

 

[NoJo]

I lived with my brother in the States for periods during the 70's and 80's , and we were also big fans of Siskel and Ebert -- in the UK there was nobody to compare with them, although quite a few reviewers have tried.

But Siskel and Ebert were popular because they were seen as two honest men in a very dishonest industry, where studios would think nothing of bribing reviewers, the way the music industry did and still does with pop and rap DJ's.

But I think Siskel and Ebert were a lot more encouraging of new struggling film makers, and less likely to give independent production the thumbs-down. They were iconoclasts, who you could trust not to play the Hollywood game.

Literotica is nearly ALL "independent productions," and I think because of that, plus the fact that it's (hopefully) not that "corrupt", encouragement is the order of the day. Sure, they give you a choice of 1-5, but I still think that "thumbs-down" should be used pretty sparingly. As a performing musician, I've often got pissed off after a show by geting a small polite applause (3) or sometimes even no applause, but I think I'd have been put off for life if I'd actually got booed (1) when I first started out! Nowadays, after years I can handle it better.
I don't know if you've posted any stories, but if you have, you must surely remember how scary it is to put yourself up for cricisim for the first time. I had a lot of "mixed" feedback on my first story, (which, in retrospect sucked) but the feedback was generally positive, by 'positive' I mean encouraging me to do better, not telling me it was good. People picked up on what they thought were my good points and tried to show me how I could build on them. And becasue of that my stories have got way better.
That's really all I'm trying to say here.

 

[Guest]

Feedback or criticism?

I appreciate Sub Joe's comments. I have received terrific positive criticism and one very negative anonymous message for my stories. Ouch. I do appreciate constructive suggestions even if I don't always agree with their opinions, but the anonymous ones usually serve no purpose. We all have different writing and reading styles and tastes - what appeals to one person will not appeal to another - and who cares?

Dear Knoxville - Try to write what you enjoy - you'll have more fun with it, I think. Clean up the basics in style and check for proper spelling and grammar. My advisor in grad school always said to finish writing the story and then put it on a shelf for a week. That way, you can proof it with a fresh eye - it works! Read the story from end to beginning, a sentence at a time - it really helps you find those awkward passages. I look forward to reading your stories - maybe I can offer an idea you haven't heard?

Unregistered - isn't this story classified under Celebrities because they are Rachel and Monica from Friends TV show? Also, to disagree, you aren't giving an open and honest opinion, as you haven't even shared your name -

 

[BodaciousTease]

Okay, I obviously have nothing better to do this evening.

Sub Joe, you are absolutely right about "Siskle and Ebert". They were very supportive of independent films. They would cut independents slack, no doubt about it. But there is nothing wrong or off about my review. Knoxville's story has problems -- pretty big problems. I'm sorry, sweetsubsarahh, running a spell check over it is not going to fix the major problems in this story.

They aren't unfixable -- they aren't terminal -- they aren't a reflection of the writer. He handled some things well but they are crippling in its current form, and this thing needs a total re-write. I was only hoping to show him why I thought the thudding repetitiveness of the Personal Pronoun might be one area where he could improve the flow and add more interest.

To call it otherwise is a bunch of crap. I‘m sorry. You would be doing Knoxville a disservice to imply his story is only a point or two off from quality of KillerMuffin. He knows that, Why pretend that he doesn't. It's going to take hard work to get to KillerMuffin. If he REALLY cares, he's going to want an honest appraisal not some phony praise.

I'm afraid I didn't remember reading what your vote of Knoxville's story was, did I miss something? Since you think mine is so misguided and harsh, I'm curious as to where you would rank this work. Is it a 5? Or maybe it's a 4? Just how good IS this story in its present form?

Pray tell.

Bodacious Tease

PS I wasn't hiding under "Unregistered". I don't know why the forum wouldn't let me log in.

 

[bill009]

monica #1

hi there

I just read monica #1 it is very nice but you did not go in to much detal on how she look , not to long but ok

 

[bonnybee]

Hi,
Just joined the forum and thought I'd throw my two cents worth into the ring.
1. Knoxville asked for critiques of his/her work. To give a person a critique sometimes you have to be rather harsh (In a nice way I'd hope). To improve his/her writing the problems must be pointed out, and suggestions made to correct them. There is no easy way to do this, other than just telling it like you see it. That doesn't mean that the critique is always right, but just the way the critiquer took it. Some mistakes are obvious, spelling, grammer, etc, and others are not. Style, for instance, may be the authors choice. A person may not like it, but it is the author's choice.
2. I'd agree with Unregistered, or I guess BodaciousTease, that the story is in the 2 to 3 range. He has a good handle on story line, but leaves out a lot of characterization. As has been noted discription of the setting is not always adaquate.
3. In my opinion, if someone asks for a critique of his work, he should expect criticism and learn from those that are trying to help. As with anything in writing it is the autors choice. He/She can do whatever they please, but if they want to become better writers, they will learn from the critiques, use what they've learned to improve their story, then move on to the next critique.

I've not yet posted a story on literotica, but intend to shortly. I look forward to the critiquing of my stories.

 

[the_bragis]

Hi and welcome bonnybee,

'cute name by the way. I agree with most of your posting.

Now, bb there is a pithy way and pissy way of saying things. I just hate seeing the two confused.

Have a great day,
Alex.(fem)

 

[pinklipstick]

Now, bb there is a pithy way and pissy way of saying things. I just hate seeing the two confused.

Giving feedback - real feedback not the "I loved your story write more!" type of feedback - takes a bit of work. And quite honestly, I think that authors should be required to give feedback to at least 5 stories before they ask for feedback on their own. It's not the piece of cake that it looks like.

Most stories posted here are "firsts". And quite honestly, most are not going to be works of art. There will probably be more negative things to point out than good.

BodaciousTease did two of the necessary things - read the story and gave reasons WHY he/she didn't like it. I didn't get a sense of malicious intent (which would not be cool). And feedback is precious in any form. When a person takes the time to read your story, reflect upon it and offer their opinons, an author should appreciate the effort - irregardless of whether or not they agree with the opinon.

If an author simply wants to write stories and not get feedback, they have the option of not soliciting for feedback. But I think that if you post asking for feedback, your story becomes fair game. Opinons vary, so will feedback.

 

[the_bragis]

Giving feedback - real feedback not the "I loved your story write more!" type of feedback - takes a bit of work.

I'm sorry pinklipstick, but I am just a little bother by this statement of yours. You know why? Because if I really like a story, that's exactly what I will say, and more. Always more. I will take time to point out exactly what I liked and why. I don't believe it takes any less time than pointing our why I didn't like a story. In fact often I have to think longer and harder at exactly why it was so enjoyable, while a with a badly written piece the reasons often just jump right out at me.

I believe it's just as important for an author to know what they're doing right and wrong, in my opinion.

You are correct most first time author's work isn't going to be wonderful. Maybe I suffer too much from the 'Polyanna' syndrome? But you know what? It's not that hard to find something worth while in every single story I read in here.

Every single story has some merit. If it's so badly written and/or such poor story, hopefully it's just never going to make onto this site.

You are thinking perhaps, but how does this help the author correct bad writing? Oh I am critical too, but I hope in gentle and helpful manner.

Language is wonderful. There are so many ways of saying the same thing. May I share something with you? In the Swiss Alps there are signs for the tourists. They read: In German, "It is forbidden to pick the flowers", in English, "Please don't pick the flowers", and in French, "Those who love the mountains leave them their flowers."

There are so many ways of saying the same thing, in English too.

Authors are currently required to give two feedbacks before receiving it. I know this isn't always the case. I agree giving feedback is beneficial for both author and critic.

Oh boy, look at this posting and then my last one. I guess there are short ways and long ways of saying the same thing too.

Well have a good day, and I am sorry you didnt' like my silly little quip.


Alex (fem)

 

[bonnybee]

I also think positive feedback in the form of telling what you liked about a story is good for the author . . . kind of stroke's his/her ego, which gives more incentive to write . . . but in my opinion a good critique is one that also points out mistakes that can be corrected.

On a side note, I submitted a couple of stories I've written. I was surprised, when I reviewed them, that simply posting changes the format a bunch, ie: paragraphs are no longer indented, sentences are cut in half and put on different lines, dialog is not indented, etc.
So some of the technical problems we see may not be the author's fault

bonnybee

 

[pinklipstick]

I'm sorry pinklipstick, but I am just a little bother by this statement of yours. You know why? Because if I really like a story, that's exactly what I will say, and more. Always more. I will take time to point out exactly what I liked and why. I don't believe it takes any less time than pointing our why I didn't like a story. In fact often I have to think longer and harder at exactly why it was so enjoyable, while a with a badly written piece the reasons often just jump right out at me.

I don't actually think we're saying different things. My point was that when a person simply says "I love your story, write more." AND NOTHING ELSE, it's hardly a critique. It would be the same if someone wrote, "Your story sucked big time." Absolutely no help to the author. The "why's and how's" are what make a critique so valuable. So you are simply supporting my my comment that a "real" critique is not easy and takes effort.

When an author asks for a critique, they are basically asking someone to do them a favor. To ask a favor and then demand that it be done "this way" in "this manner" with "this type of wording" is unrealistic. It would be like me asking you to cook me dinner and not eating it because you didn't use caphalon pans and a certain brand of olive oil. I should appreciate the time and effort it took for you to cook it, irregardless of the end result - just as an author should appreciate the effort a reader took to give feedback.

Note that I am not condoning malicious feedback - absolutely not. But if the critique covers what the reader thought, why they did or did not like it and any possible suggestions for improvement, the purpose of a critique is filled. Now, granted, it would be nice if all critiques were coached in positive speech. But not all will be. I'm just saying they shouldn't be dismissed or thought less valuable because of that.

Poor Knoxville. I think we hijacked his thread.