New Scandal at Xerox

[REDWAVE]

Right on the heels of the revelation of the massive fraud at WorldCom ($3.8 billion), now copying giant Xerox has just discovered a $1.9 billion "revenue gap." Woah, that's one hell of a gap! This wave of financial scandals at a series of giant corporations just proves what I've been saying all along: the capitalist system is totally corrupt and rotten to the core. After all, what can you expect of a system which is based on exploitation and oppression, and which stirs up racism and war in order to divide the working class and maintain its power?

The deregulation of business, pushed primarily by Republicans but also gone along with by a lot of Democrats, also deserves dishonorable mention here. For years, proponents of "free markets" have been saying we don't government regulation-- just unleash the markets and let them work their "magic." Well, now the markets have worked their magic, making billions of dollars disappear from the pockets of employees and outside investors, only to reappear in the pockets of the fatcat executives running the company. Quite a feat of prestidigitation!

Bush is doing his best to pretend to be angry over the massive WorldCom fraud, trying to escape from political damage to his regime over the fact that many of its top figures (such as Dick Cheney) were themselves corrupt executives before taking office, that its ties to Enron are extensive, and that it has fostered the deregulation which allowed these abuses to happen. His act is very reminiscent of Claude Raines in "Casablanca" pretending to be shocked to discover there was gambling going on in Rick's club!

We must overthrow the gangsters who have looted our lives, stolen the wealth which is rightfully ours, and usurped power against the clearly expressed will of the people.

 

[WriterDom]

Right on the heels of the revelation of the massive fraud at WorldCom ($3.8 billion), now copying giant Xerox has just discovered a $1.9 billion "revenue gap." Woah, that's one heel of a gap!

1.9 billion isn't as huge as it sounds when you look at the total revenue over the period in question. About a 2% overstatement. I'd hardly put Xerox in the same boat with WorldCom.

The stock market seems to be shrugging it off today. Just as 99.99% of people shrug off your "coming communist revolution." But keep trying. If nothing else, you are entertaining.

 

[REDWAVE]

A "mere" $1.9 billion

Well, perhaps, $1.9 billion doesn't seem like that much to a spoiled, arrogant, Southern yuppie, but out here in the real world of ordinary working people, where I live, it sure buys a lot of frijoles.

Keep shrugging, WD, while the revolutionary upsurge worldwide continues to grow. Soon, you and your ilk will be the ones who will be totally isolated, as the multi-millioned masses rise up and overthrow oppression.

 

[sexy-girl]

Re: Re: New Scandal at Xerox

1.9 billion isn't as huge as it sounds when you look at the total revenue over the period in question. About a 2% overstatement. I'd hardly put Xerox in the same boat with WorldCom.

The stock market seems to be shrugging it off today. Just as 99.99% of people shrug off your "coming communist revolution." But keep trying. If nothing else, you are entertaining.

they've admitted to that gap ... but experts are saying that it could be bigger


stock markets expect companies to lie and cheat ... but when it comes to there annual reports they have to be honest ... that is starting to be not the case anymore ... and stock markets will lose confidence in these big companys

 

[Dragon Dreamer]

Hardly

This could hardly be blamed on the concept of the free market. The free market is actually was is causing the damage to these companies as the truth comes out, which in the case of things like this, eventually HAS to come out by the nature of the beast. Corruption is hardly the sole domain of capitalism, take a look at the old Soviet Union and you see what happens when corruption runs amuck without the oversight of a free market economy to compensate for it.

 

[WriterDom]

Re: A "mere" $1.9 billion

Soon, you and your ilk will be the ones who will be totally isolated, as the multi-millioned masses rise up and overthrow oppression.

The masses can start in Cuba. Just think of all the frijoles the Cubans could buy if they just could get into Castro's billion dollar bank accounts.

 

[REDWAVE]

Replies

Dragon Dreamer-- some people still don't recognize the truth even when it bites them on the ass. Capitalism is very much to blame for the current financial scandals. It gives vast, essentially unaccountable power to top executives of giant corporations. Thus they are in the position where they can get away with the blackest and most enormous crimes. They are essentially above the law, since they can bribe the politicians through "campaign contributions." Look at the top Enron executives, for instance (all guilty of massive fraud and probably complicity in the murder of J. Clifford Baxter)-- none of them have even been indicted. (Instead, their auditors-- Arthur Andersen-- were scapegoated).

If you want to talk about corruption, it increased vastly when capitalism was restored in Russia, and criminal gangs basicly took over the country. (Here in the U.S., the criminal gangs took over a long time ago, and now they're called "corporate executives.") The poverty and misery of the Russian people also increased greatly-- they were much better off, even under the bureaucratically deformed workers state, than they are now under capitalism, which has ravaged that country (and many others).

WD, you have a fixation on Castro, which you share with the gusanos. The people of Cuba are FAR better off under Castro than they were under the blood-soaked U.S. puppet dictator, Fulgencio Batista.

 

[karlgarside]

Isn't capitalism a great way to live our lives !

 

[Dragon Dreamer]

Re: Replies

Dragon Dreamer-- some people still don't recognize the truth even when it bites them on the ass. Capitalism is very much to blame for the current financial scandals.

Yes it is apparent to me that some people don't recognize the truth... the truth that communism is and was a miserable failure that instead of uplifting the worker, forced everyone who was not a political leader into abject poverty. A system that at least allows you to have the chance to improve your lot is infinitely better than one that holds everyone down in the dirt. If the "workers paradise" is "everyone equal in poverty and ignorance" you can count me out. In a communist regime you wouldn't be able to make statements disagreeing with the way things are run, and that is an idea that I abhor.
Free markets give everyone the right to own a piece of major companies. Those stockholders also elect the board of that company. It's like economic democracy. If you think you can find a better system of government than democracy, and a better economic system than capitalism, feel free, we all know they both have their flaws. However communism is not, and never has been the answer. That has become a proven truth. Whether or not you choose to believe that truth is up to you.

 

[karlgarside]

And oh yes ! America is so tolerant of differing views !

"Are you now or have you ever been ?"

 

[Dragon Dreamer]

And oh yes ! America is so tolerant of differing views !

"Are you now or have you ever been ?"

I'm not an American. I'm also not defending America. What I am defending, is the ideal of capitalism and democracy. If Democracy were like communism however, RedWave would probably be reported for his views and taken away. He has the right to say them.

 

[Young Knave]

I don't think we can do away with capitalism completely. Look how pourly things went in the socialist countries. I think the problem has more to do with the culture of greed, rampant materialism, and selfishness in this country blah blah blah etc.

Anyway, I think we're are going to be headed to more of a European style, mixed economy here. Its a number of years off perhaps, since the media in this country is heavily censored by their corporate owners, but eventually the people will wake up.

 

[REDWAVE]

Democracy Yes-- Capitalism No

I like the idea of democracy. I don't like capitalism. In my opinion, the two are inherently in conflict with each other, since capitalism results in a highly undemocratic concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a very few.

In order to have true democracy, we must also have socialism.

 

[admiral2k]

Dragon Dreamer -

Excellent response. Capitalism or "Free Market Economics" is (at least right now) the strongest system that has ever been. It is largely responsible for eliminating slavery (or at least surfdom in feudal kingdoms) and providing people with their first chance for freedom. It gives the lowest individual the opportunity of reaching the greatest heights. Capitalism also encourages equal opportunity for each person (regardless of sex or ethnicity) - because a business cannot afford to exclude portions of the population or deny talent (baseball and footable are phenomenal examples). There is no other system that does this.

Adam Smith (a widely studied early economist) believed very strongly in the "unseen hand" which guides market forces. The consumers themselves are that force. They are the ones who decide what is acceptable. If the people feel oppressed, then it is they who decide NOT to buy something. Want to see Xerox out of business? Don't buy another Xerox product. Want to punish WorldCom - vote with your dollars. It is amazingly simple. Overthrowing "the system" by comparison is a waste of time and utterly foolhardy.

Marxism has been a total failure. Some people can become corrupt whether they're Capitalists or Marxists... Ultimately Capitalism is self-correcting whereas communism generally is not.

Admiral

 

[Dragon Dreamer]

That is where I think we will end up disagreeing. I believe capitalism and free market economies to be a fundamental neccesity in a democracy. I believe the point is proven when you look at fledgling democracies without free markets, and the troubles that arise therein. I would agree with the statement that the markets need to have stricter and stronger regulations in regards to abuse, but I do believe they are fundamentally necessary.

 

[REDWAVE]

Admiral

Glad to meet you, admiral2k. I'm kind of an admiral myself-- a rear admiral. While capitalism was originally progressive, and certainly represented an advance over feudalism, it quickly became reactionary. Upward mobility is much rarer than downward mobility. Capitalism encourage equal opportunity? You're kidding, right? Haven't you heard about the "glass ceiling" for female executives, widespread discrimination against blacks in corporate hiring, discrimination against open homosexuals, etc? And that's just talking about what's going on today. If you look at the history, capitalism in America has always been dominated by a tiny elite of rich white men.
Equal opportunity-- my ass!

If you like Adam Smith, you should read his chapter in The Wealth of Nations about the wages of labor. Very interesting. Actually, Marx got a lot of his best ideas from Adam Smith-- an intellectual connection the capitalist ruling class doesn't want you to know about. The labor theory of value, for instance-- it didn't originate with Marx. It originated with Adam Smith.

The ruling class would also like people to think Marxism has been a failure-- they constantly promote that line. Actually, it was not the genuine Marxism of working class democracy which failed, it was the Stalinist bureaucratically deformed workers state. Trotsky's The Revolution Betrayed is the seminal work in that context.

 

[miles]

Re: Democracy Yes-- Capitalism No

I like the idea of democracy. I don't like capitalism. In my opinion, the two are inherently in conflict with each other, since capitalism results in a highly undemocratic concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a very few.

In order to have true democracy, we must also have socialism.

redwave, you take the cake for most hypocritical turd on Lit, bar none.

Democracy. Majority rule. Mob rule. No rule of law, just rule of people.

Yes, folks, it was Democracy that brought us such unforgettable policies like segregation. The majority of people took away the rights of minorities.

That's what you like, redwave?

And don't you just hate those left-wing, name calling bigots?

Well, perhaps, $1.9 billion doesn't seem like that much to a spoiled, arrogant, Southern yuppie,

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you were really Republican, homophobic WASP. Then it would all make sense.

 

[Ishmael]

The facts.

The 'overstatement' is 2% of revenues and is due to Xerox's policy of 'booking sales' prior to actual shipment to the customer. While this isn't a very good practice, and is not within SAP, it isn't at all on the level of Enron or WorldCom.

What this means is that Xerox takes a 1.9 Billion hit, but will actually show a greater profit next year because of the revision.

Xerox had a similar problem 4 years ago that was discovered by their then auditor KPMG. Xerox fired KPMG and hired Price-Waterhouse, who found the current discrepancy. Xerox duly reported BOTH to the public and the SEC.

This is NOT the scandal that REDWAVE makes it out to be.

Ishmael

 

[Guest]

Re: Democracy Yes-- Capitalism No

I like the idea of democracy. I don't like capitalism. In my opinion, the two are inherently in conflict with each other, since capitalism results in a highly undemocratic concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a very few.

In order to have true democracy, we must also have socialism.

Ok, I have to peek inside these threads once in a while, though I don't usually post.

I have to admit ignorance when it comes to political awareness. I don't enjoy politics, and haven't bothered to educate myself in the workings of social structures.

Your writings, Redwave, have intrigued me, though I don't normally comment on them. I guess you could say I'm sitting on the fence about most of the political debates that go on here.

But this post has instigated a movement. I did not know what 'socialism' was, and always associated it with communism until now. I went out and found a web site to read both about capitalism and socialism. I understood the basic meaning of capitalism, but I had no clue what Socialism meant.

Now I do.

Ok, now to the point of this post.

How would you propose changing this capitalist nation into a socialist society?

Moon
(Edit was to correct my spelling. I hate when I spell a word wrong and don't notice it till I post it.)

 

[WriterDom]

The facts.


This is NOT the scandal that REDWAVE makes it out to be.

Ishmael

All RedFlop cares about is the perception of scandal. I've yet to hear him put forth any intelligent alternative to capitalism. I pushed him once, and he said Cuba is the closest model to his worker utopia. But when you bring up facts about Cuba he resorts to name calling.

 

[Guest]

All RedFlop cares about is the perception of scandal. I've yet to hear him put forth any intelligent alternative to capitalism. I pushed him once, and he said Cuba is the closest model to his worker utopia. But when you bring up facts about Cuba he resorts to name calling.

This is precisely what I've seen. A lot of belly aching, and no solutions. One thing I've always lived by, is don't complain unless you have a proposed solution.

Moon

 

[REDWAVE]

Not exactly, WD

Not exactly, WD. What I said was Cuba is the closest currently existing, but it's still a bureaucratically deformed workers state. The closest would be the early Soviet Union under the leadership of Lenin and Trotsky, from 1917 to 1923-24. But genuine socialism can only be established worldwide, as Lenin himself said many times.

And I never said WD was a spoiled, arrogant Southern yuppie-- I merely made a general comment about spoiled, arrogant Southern yuppies, apropo of no one in particular.

But of course, if WD feels the shoe fits, I defer to his expertise on the subject.

 

[REDWAVE]

How to get there

Sorry I took so long to read your post, MoonWolf. Been busy lately. As you know, I PM'd you an answer.

The rest of you can read my website.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

The weight of overwhelming quantitative data stands against Redwave and his childlike dreams of fairies creating a utopian society where everyone is blessed with the best of everything and those that work will continue to work hard without reward because that's the nice thing to do. Our system has problems, but it's still the best anyone's ever come up with.

 

[REDWAVE]

Fairies?

Fairies creating a utopian society? Oh, don't get me started on that one!

Free blow jobs for everyone! Socialized fellatio!