New/Foreign authors, please ease up on the disclaimers

[Yarglenurp]

this is kind of a public service announcement more than anything else. There is really no need to warn, in every story, that the events are fictional, views expressed aren’t necessarily yours, you’re not actually a misogynist/racist/whateverist, that you actually don’t live the life you’re writing about, that you are not a native English speaker…

The disclaimers aren’t needed. No one who reads your story is going to say, “oh I thought he was a racist, but look right here, the disclaimer says he isn’t.” If you’re not a native English speaker, we’ll pick that up in the writing pretty easily. And, if it’s not apparent, then good job!

All the disclaimer does is ruin the mood. If I clicked on your story, I am trying to enjoy a good sexist/racist/impossible story here. Imagine going to watch Dune 2, and before the movie starts, it would say, “what you are about to see did not actually happen. The views expressed in this movie are not necessarily the Director or Actors views, the actors may be speaking in a language other than their native language. Spice is not real.”

 

[MyBareTorso]

Dune isn't a true story? ...

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Nothing screams amateur like disclaimers, especially when you see long ones, full paragraphs, hundreds of words.

"This story contains (kinks and/or other shit that you might not like)." ~ This is an apology to protect the score - nothing more - and tells us that the writer is more interested in his writing experience than he is in our reading experience because the reason that we're supposed to read this is to tell him how good it is, and never how bad it might be. He already thinks that he knows what some of the not-liked parts are, so he's apologizing and we haven't even started yet. Translation: "Make sure that you read this right." Don't tell us how to read. It's very off-putting.

Which is often followed by "... so if you're not into this, hit the back button now." ~ This one takes it even further, telling us with a heavy hand to actually fuck off and keep the scoresheet and comments clean and happy. Fuck you too, douchebag writer - not just a snowflake but an arrogant one. This is no way to talk to your audience.

"I wrote this when I was (blahblahblah)" ~ Is this supposed to make a difference to how we read the story? If so, then why isn't that difference just written into the narrative? Why does the writer have to explain to us what he is about to explain to us? Writing is explaining after all. If the writing needs pre-explaining, it isn't written well enough. This tells us a glaring lack of self-confidence in the writer's abilities. Don't disclaim this. Just write better.

"This story is about (yadayadayada) / set in (blahh-opolis) / involves (mr and mrs so-and-so from story x)." ~ Pretty much the same as above. If it needs explaining and setup, it aint written well enough. This just tells us that we are likely in for something inferior. Not a good way to hook us in.

"A big thank you to all my fans, keep the votes and the comments up as the series continues. Hope to bring more you more chapters soon!" ~ This tells us that the writer publishes each chapter as he writes it, so the plot will meander and have loose ends as it's really just an aimless soap opera. It also tells us that so long as everyone keeps loving the writer, there will be more story but as soon as that love drops off, his inspiration will drop too and the story will begin to suck and die. So don't do this.

"English is not my first language." ~ This one I don't mind. It's one short line and is probably the only disclaimer that can help our perspective as we read the piece.

"All characters in this story are age 18+ and all sexual acts are fully consensual." ~ Are we not going to be able to tell by the narrative itself? wtf??

These disclaimers are almost always written by writers who want to share the joy of their own writing experience (which we can't possibly share) and not caring whatsoever about our reading experience. It's so vain. "I had a great time writing this! Don't you agree?" No. We can't agree. The writing experience belongs to the writer only and cannot be shared. It's not possible. The writing experience is also over, done, finito! Let the reading experience begin. Shut up and let us read your story.

 

[THBGato]

Ok @Yarglenurp and @pink_silk_glove I'm going to strongly disagree with you here.

1. You don't have to read it. Look, just like the author dedications in a physical book, the introduction/forward in any issue of a Penguin Classic, or Melville's treatise on whaling at the start of Moby Dick, you can just skip past and get to the story. Most author's notes are italicised and often there's a line below them, so it's easy enough to scroll past. Takes you seconds. Takes you less time than it took you to write this forum post moaning about this.

2. Literotica is a social network. But a badly organised one. You can't really have conversations with readers in the comments effectively and, unless readers message you directly, as an author you've no way to communicate with them. Except for the author's note. This is a writer's one way to try to communicate with all readers, to build a relationship with them. Literotica is a social network that functions by building a following, and don't pretend you don't care about that (the number of posts about number of followers in the Milestones thread shows that many authors do care): if you genuinely didn't, you wouldn't publish here, you'd just publish on Smashwords or your own blog somewhere. As a reader I really like them: it gives me a sense of who the author is (and isn't - especially if the 'voice' of the note is very different to the 'voice' of the story). Often the presence/absence of an author's note has been what has encouraged me (or the opposite) to contact said writer, which has often lead to really interesting and helpful email exchanges. Having an author's note is a signal that the writer is willing to engage with their readership. If you aren't interested in that (as a reader) then I refer you back to point 1.

These disclaimers are almost always written by writers who want to share the joy of their own writing experience (which we can't possibly share) and not caring whatsoever about our reading experience. It's so vain.

3.a. Well of course it's vain! It takes vanity to publish. We're being vain as writers whether we include an author's note or not. One could, actually, infer the opposite: those stories with NO note imply a higher-level of vanity, suggesting the author thinks their story is so great it needs no introduction. That's a possible interpretation. I don't know. I don't pretend to know the motivations of other writers. Your "almost always" qualifier aside, I find it weird that you can make massive broad brushstrokes like this about all other writers whose motivations you aren't privy to.

3b. I can't speak for other writers. But my inclusion of author's notes is for two reasons 1. To thank those who deserve it (editors, beta readers) 2. To try to enhance reader experience. This might be to warn them of spoilers or suggest they read a previous part; it might be to include trigger warnings; or it might be to say "this is a slow-burn, if you don't have the patience for that, try something by this other writer (hyperlink here)." My begging for votes and comments usually come at the end ;-)

I have no problem with you not liking author's notes. But please don't tell me what my motivations are. I am, first and foremost, a reader: I care deeply about reader experience. If you don't want to read it, I refer you back to point 1.

Imagine going to watch Dune 2, and before the movie starts, it would say, “what you are about to see did not actually happen. The views expressed in this movie are not necessarily the Director or Actors views, the actors may be speaking in a language other than their native language. Spice is not real.”

Out of interest, at the beginning of Star Wars, when the words start to scroll up the screen, do you close your eyes?

 

[Yarglenurp]

Ok @Yarglenurp and @pink_silk_glove I'm going to strongly disagree with you here.

1. You don't have to read it. Look, just like the author dedications in a physical book, the introduction/forward in any issue of a Penguin Classic, or Melville's treatise on whaling at the start of Moby Dick, you can just skip past and get to the story. Most author's notes are italicised and often there's a line below them, so it's easy enough to scroll past. Takes you seconds. Takes you less time than it took you to write this forum post moaning about this.

2. Literotica is a social network. But a badly organised one. You can't really have conversations with readers in the comments effectively and, unless readers message you directly, as an author you've no way to communicate with them. Except for the author's note. This is a writer's one way to try to communicate with all readers, to build a relationship with them. Literotica is a social network that functions by building a following, and don't pretend you don't care about that (the number of posts about number of followers in the Milestones thread shows that many authors do care): if you genuinely didn't, you wouldn't publish here, you'd just publish on Smashwords or your own blog somewhere. As a reader I really like them: it gives me a sense of who the author is (and isn't - especially if the 'voice' of the note is very different to the 'voice' of the story). Often the presence/absence of an author's note has been what has encouraged me (or the opposite) to contact said writer, which has often lead to really interesting and helpful email exchanges. Having an author's note is a signal that the writer is willing to engage with their readership. If you aren't interested in that (as a reader) then I refer you back to point 1.



3.a. Well of course it's vain! It takes vanity to publish. We're being vain as writers whether we include an author's note or not. One could, actually, infer the opposite: those stories with NO note imply a higher-level of vanity, suggesting the author thinks their story is so great it needs introduction. That's a possible interpretation. I don't know. I don't pretend to know the motivations of other writers. Your "almost always" qualifier aside, I find it weird that you can make massive broad brushstrokes like this about all other writers whose motivations you aren't privy to.

3b. I can't speak for other writers. But my inclusion of author's notes is for two reasons 1. To thank those who deserve it (editors, beta readers) 2. To try to enhance reader experience. This might be to warn them of spoilers or suggest they read a previous part; it might be to include trigger warnings; or it might be to say "this is a slow-burn, if you don't have the patience for that, try something by this other writer (hyperlink here)." My begging for votes and comments usually come at the end ;-)

I have no problem with you not liking author's notes. But please don't tell me what my motivations are. I am, first and foremost, a reader: I care deeply about reader experience. If you don't want to read it, I refer you back to point 1.



Out of interest, at the beginning of Star Wars, when the words start to scroll up the screen, do you close your eyes?

So firstly, I meant disclaimers, not opening notes or categories. Those are different. I use an opening note in my stories. I specifically meant the disclaimers that are effectively apologizing or warning for something. I include categories in mine so that my target audience know they’re getting what they want.

Obviously, can’t speak for anyone else.

As for your last point… god I wish I did, so that I could somehow unsee the abomination that was, “Somehow Palpatine returned.”

 

[pink_silk_glove]

1. You don't have to read it.

Often I don't. If only the right readers should read your story, and apparently I'm not one of them, then I guess that the disclaimer did its job, but if that's the case then it absolutely proves that the writer is vain and insecure and just wants love and bouquets. So fuck them.

2. Literotica is a social network. But a badly organised one. You can't really have conversations with readers in the comments effectively and, unless readers message you directly, as an author you've no way to communicate with them.

Communicate what? The only communicating that the vast majority of these disclaimers does is the writer telling the reader the proper way to read. What's wrong with the story that we can't just read it all normal-like?

3.a. Well of course it's vain! It takes vanity to publish.

Speak for yourself. It takes a certain amount of confidence, perhaps even a little swagger. Neither of these is vanity.

To thank those who deserve it (editors, beta readers)

No problem with that. I've done it myself. Just keep it to one quick note, not a sprawling paragraph.

To try to enhance reader experience. This might be to warn them of spoilers or suggest they read a previous part; it might be to include trigger warnings; or it might be to say "this is a slow-burn, if you don't have the patience for that, try something by this other writer (hyperlink here)."

Any enhancements to the reader's experience that aren't actually in the story take away from the story. The rest of that is just apologizing and/or telling us how to read. Don't talk down to your reader.

I have no problem with you not liking author's notes. But please don't tell me what my motivations are. I am, first and foremost, a reader: I care deeply about reader experience. If you don't want to read it, I refer you back to point 1.

I'm not telling you what your motivations are. I'm telling you how your motivations are perceived. It's a big difference. This is the only valuable feedback you can really get from anyone about any of your work. The writer can never truly know how they are being read, unless a reader tells them. I'm telling you how your disclaimers read. What you do with this feedback is up to you.

Out of interest, at the beginning of Star Wars, when the words start to scroll up the screen, do you close your eyes?

And that was the worst part of the movie.

 

[Yarglenurp]

And that was the worst part of the movie.

I strongly disagree. The worst part of the movie was the specialized knife that pointed to where a random macguffin was when standing from a specific ledge, said location being on a wreckage that would have been less than 50 years old. The wreckage that was constantly facing violent sea water. The wreckage made of metal. Metal, a substance known to rapidly degrade in seawater. The macguffin positioned in an open air location, exposed to said seawater and violent storms.

Like… was this special knife made literally a year ago? And why a knife? They have hologram messages sent on the reg.

The stupidity of that whole scene made me want to vomit.

 

[THBGato]

I'm telling you how your motivations are perceived. It's a big difference. This is the only valuable feedback you can really get from anyone about any of your work. The writer can never truly know how they are being read, unless a reader tells them. I'm telling you how your disclaimers read. What you do with this feedback is up to you.

On another thread, where people were discussing the comments to reads ratio, it seemed to me that my ratio was much higher than the norm.

No idea if that is because of the categories I write in, or because the stories I write touch people emotionally.... or because by including personalised notes at the start it humanises me and makes me seem more approachable? Or a combination of all three. No way to tell.

Nonetheless, I get plenty of feedback, in comments and via email. Not one has complained about the author's notes or told me I was "talk[ing] down to the reader". In fact a couple have thanked me for the author's notes as it directed them to other writers they hadn't come across (like I said, Literotica is a social network). Though, to be fair, when I submitted a story to the AwkwardMD review thread, they were critical about the author's note, so you aren't alone.

Thank you for the feedback (I'm going to presume when you say "your disclaimers" that you've read some of mine and that this isn't uninformed feedback). I shall file it away appropriately.

 

[StillStunned]

I have a story that's nearly finished that will include a disclaimer. The reason is that it isn't really a story: it's just a pair of sex scenes that I began as a sequel to an earlier instalment, and then abandoned because that's all they were. Now I've decided to publish them anyway - perhaps like a recording artist putting out a collection of unreleased material - as something of a thank-you to my readers for nearly half a million views on the series.

There are a few things in there that pave the way for what will perhaps be a later instalment, and that tie up some loose ends. Also, the sex is pretty hot.

The reason why I'm adding a disclaimer is to warn the readers not to expect a complete story with a beginning, a middle and an end. I feel that's only fair towards them, even if a couple of people here in the Hangout disagree.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Dune isn't a true story? ...

No, but Star Wars definitely happened. A long time ago and in a galaxy far far away, but it definitely happened.

Also, yes, as I've become more confident as an author, the length and number of my disclaimers has dropped way down.

 

[TheLobster]

I agree with pretty much everything @pink_silk_glove said here, except for maybe the continuity notes. It's a limitation of the medium that you might want to include them. If your stories were, say, published as a paperback volume, the arrangement within the volume would be a sufficient hint as to how the plots fit together but we don't have such luxury here. (It's not exactly obvious to readers that a story is a subsequent one in a series, for example). Hence a note like "This story follows X, you may or may not want to read that first" can fill this gap.

Not one has complained about the author's notes or told me I was "talk[ing] down to the reader".

This is pure selection bias. People who bounced from the story because they were put off by the notes never left comments indicating that. Indeed, you even mentioned that in a situation where a reader was "forced" to comment, there was some criticism of the notes.

 

[THBGato]

It's a limitation of the medium that you might want to include them. If your stories were, say, published as a paperback volume, the arrangement within the volume would be a sufficient hint as to how the plots fit together but we don't have such luxury here.

Agreed. But it's also a limitation of the medium that there is no back cover blurb, space for thanks, dedications, etc.

If I was publishing any of my stories in paperback, I would include all of the things I include in the author's notes here in some form or other, be it in the contents page, author dedication/acknowledgements and back cover blurb. I nearly always read those as a reader, thus I'm including them for others like me. Those who don't like them are welcome to skip.

People who bounced from the story because they were put off by the notes never left comments indicating that.

If they didn't have the patience to take the 3 seconds it would take to skip over my 40 word author's note, they won't have had the patience for my stories. At least I wasted less of their time that way.

 

[Bamagan]

If they didn't have the patience to take the 3 seconds it would take to skip over my 40 word author's note, they won't have had the patience for my stories. At least I wasted less of their time that way.

If they fled from the presence of a foreword, etc. I feel confident in believing that any comments they otherwise might have made would have left one poorer for having read them.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If they fled from the presence of a foreword, etc. I feel confident in believing that any comments they otherwise might have made would have left one poorer for having read them.

Translation: I only want to hear positive feedback.

 

[StillStunned]

Translation: I only want to hear positive feedback.

Alternatively: "I want the best possible match between my writing and my readership."

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I want you to know that the opinion expressed in this post is in no way related to the earthquake in Peru or to the hurricane in the Caribbean. Also, all resemblance with the political life in Vanuatu is purely coincidental.

I agree with much when it comes to protracted disclaimers or forewords. But there are definitely things you want to say in advance when posting on a website like this one. Many readers are quite picky about their kinks. If it's a long story or a series, you really want to list the kinks present in it.

First, it's good for the readers as it lets them know to avoid the story if it contains kinks that are a big NO for them. In a long story or series, it might take a while before such a kink appears so you are really doing such readers a favor by warning them.
Second, it's good for the scores, and there is nothing wrong with caring about your scores. There is a clear correlation between a high score and the number of readers who will give your story a chance. For example, I've had a situation where I listed chastity as a tag and stated that the sexual theme of the series is light femdom. And I still had a non-anonymous reader tell me that they are giving me a 1* and that I am a misandrist asshole for using chastity in my story. Go figure
So yeah, due to the way Lit works, short forewords and disclaimers have their use.

 

[ElectricBlue]

First, it's good for the readers as it lets them know to avoid the story if it contains kinks that are a big NO for them. In a long story or series, it might take a while before such a kink appears so you are really doing such readers a favor by warning them.

Mary Poppins erotica, huh?

 

[Bamagan]

Alternatively: "I want the best possible match between my writing and my readership."

Pretty much.
Very little of the smut posted here has very broad appeal, kinks and squicks being what they are. I am more interested in reaching the tiny sliver of the potential audience who like what I'm offering, and no one else matters much in terms of their response to what I wrote, whether they're lukewarm, neutral, or averse. I already know that my content is not for everyone, and no one who has ever complained did so for my benefit, or anyone else's besides their own (although there are one or two 'crusaders' who seem to like to believe they're doing a public service, or else fancy themselves literary critics and pretend their opinions weigh more than a neutrino ).

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Mary Poppins erotica, huh?

Not sure what that means.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Not sure what that means.

Nanny state.

 

[OffNSFW]

I wrote a story in which the point character is an old-school biblical misogynist. Readers didn't necessarily assume he was a real person and that it was a real story. But some of them did assume that, because he was a misogynist, so was I.

Grown-ass adults are not as good at telling the difference between fiction and reality as we would like to hope. I hadn't done a disclaimer in this case, but I can't blame anyone who might try to preempt this kind of backlash.

I've also done disclaimers on a couple occasions for things like slurs, PTSD triggers, etc. as a courtesy for readers who might not want to read that stuff. It's not a perfect solution, but, in some situations, it just seems appropriate.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Okay, interesting discussion. Hopefully it stays this way.

I add the following as a boiler plate at the beginning of any story. Necessary?

This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, businesses, events, and incidents are the products of the author's imagination. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental. All characters are over the age of eighteen.

Then I will occasionally give a quick heads up on story content and advise the reader to check the tags. Necessary?

This story is about a mature couple in an open marriage and the young man who finds himself drawn into their life. If non-monogamy isn't your bag, please head out to greener pastures. Please check the tags.[/quote}

And then I put the title in bold below it. This lets the reader know where the story starts and they can skip the intro if they want to. And until yesterday I never had a reader have a problem it.

xxxxxxxxxx 2 days ago
A piece of advise to this dumb author - writing at the beginning of the story that this is a fiction and not a true story is seriously stupid as it kills the mystery and enthusiasm of the reader. Secondly the author should not think his readers are stupid like him as they know most stories in the website is fiction so STOP WRITING THAT YOUR STORY IS NOT TRUE COZ WE KNOW ITS NOT TRUE. No wonder u have only 30 followers

I'm not sure where he got the thirty followers number, but whatever. Thoughts?

 

[Voboy]

This sort of thing gets posted here routinely.

Want to write disclaimers? Write them.

Don't want to write disclaimers? Don't write them.

Want to be preached to about writing disclaimers? It's bound to happen shortly already happened in this thread.

It's one of those endless arguments. We're not likely to change anyone's behavior. Writers are making a choice, either way, and they're basing that choice on their own habits, "research," gut feelings, and expectations. Often, they're acting like the readers they are, or they'd like to be.

In any event, all of that is likely to prove far more powerful than an internet stranger ranting in yet another disclaimer thread. JMO.

 

[Britva415]

at the beginning of Star Wars, when the words start to scroll up the screen, do you close your eyes?

I'm not staking a position one way or the other on the subject of disclaimers, except to pointedly ask, is that one?

No, it's not. It's part of the story. It's a storytelling technique. A bit of a weird one for the medium of film, but it's not a disclaimer.

 

[Bamagan]

Okay, interesting discussion. Hopefully it stays this way.

I add the following as a boiler plate at the beginning of any story. Necessary?



Then I will occasionally give a quick heads up on story content and advise the reader to check the tags. Necessary?


And then I put the title in bold below it. This lets the reader know where the story starts and they can skip the intro if they want to. And until yesterday I never had a reader have a problem it.

xxxxxxxxxx 2 days ago
A piece of advise to this dumb author - writing at the beginning of the story that this is a fiction and not a true story is seriously stupid as it kills the mystery and enthusiasm of the reader. Secondly the author should not think his readers are stupid like him as they know most stories in the website is fiction so STOP WRITING THAT YOUR STORY IS NOT TRUE COZ WE KNOW ITS NOT TRUE. No wonder u have only 30 followers

I'm not sure where he got the thirty followers number, but whatever. Thoughts?

My thought is that, even when a bug zapper is working, sometimes the bugs explode wetly, as in this case.