New Daylight Saving May Cause Tech Problems

linuxgeek

Rogue Scholar
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Here's something I bet the brainiacs in Congress didn't even't stop to consider...
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New Daylight Saving May Cause Tech Problems

August 7, 2005, 1:40 PM EDT

NEW YORK -- When daylight-saving time starts earlier than usual in the United States come 2007, your VCR or DVD recorder could start recording shows an hour late.

Cell phone companies could give you an extra hour of free weekend calls, and people who depend on online calendars may find themselves late for appointments.

An energy bill President Bush is to sign Monday would start daylight time three weeks earlier and end it a week later as an energy-saving measure.

And that has technologists worried about software and gadgets that now compensate for daylight time based on a schedule unchanged since 1987.

"It is unfortunately going to add a little bit of complexity to consumers," said Reid Sullivan, vice president of the entertainment group at Panasonic Consumer Electronics Co. "In some cases, depending on the product, they may have to manually increase or decrease the time."

The upcoming transition evokes memories of Y2K, the Year 2000 rollover that forced programmers to adjust software and other systems that, relying on two digits for the year, never took the 21st century into account.

"It wouldn't be a society-wide catastrophe, but there would be a problem if nothing's done about it or we try to move too quickly," said Dave Thewlis, executive director of a group that promotes standards for calendar software.

Newer VCRs and DVD recorders have built-in calendars to automatically adjust for daylight time. Users would have to override them, switching to "manual" to ensure shows continue to record correctly.

Computers with Microsoft Corp.'s Windows operating systems would need to obtain updates. Though most affected applications would likely be taken care of by the Microsoft fix, calendar systems will need to be checked to ensure that appointments already entered get properly adjusted.

Some electric utilities have advanced meters to adjust rates based on peak and non-peak hours, and studies would be required to determine if any modifications are needed. The telecommunications industry, meanwhile, must ensure that its clocks are properly adjusted to bill customers properly.

Adding to the complications is the fact that many computer programs now treat U.S. and Canadian time zones as the same. If Canada doesn't adopt the new dates, too, Windows, calendars and other software would have to learn additional zones.

Technologists sounded louder alarms as the Year 2000 approached. The programming shortcut caused some computers to wrongly interpret 2000 as 1900, potentially fouling systems that control power grids, air traffic, banking systems and phone networks.

Businesses and governments around the world threw some $200 billion at the problem, and the transition occurred without any worldwide disaster, even leading some critics to suggest they were victims of a big-money bamboozle.

The daylight-saving transition will be at most a mini-Y2K, with the impact of any failure far less reaching.

"We're looking only at a one-hour difference versus setting back (the clock) 99 years," said Randall Palm of the Computing Technology Industry Association.

Dan Bart of the Telecommunications Industry Association said Y2K fears stemmed from computers completely crashing rather than simply displaying a wrong time.

A fax machine might stamp the wrong time for four weeks, but "Do I care? Not really," he said.

Besides, many systems have means for self-correction.

Video recorders, for instance, can synch with time signals sent over PBS broadcasts and through electronic programming guides.

Some watches from Timex Inc. can adjust times based on radio signals from the U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology and other government sources.

The digital clocks on cell phones are generally synched with the service provider's network clock. Operating systems from Microsoft, Apple Computer Inc. and Cisco Systems Inc. can be configured to check periodically with Internet-based "time servers," though such servers tend to use Greenwich Mean Time and leave daylight adjustments to local machines.

Joe Tasker, senior vice president for government affairs at the Information Technology Association of America, points out that daylight time already varies around the world, and some parts of the United States don't observe it at all.

"We already are used to having a system in place that specifies all the information that we need" for a particular region, Tasker said. "It's just a question of changing the effective date."

Some European countries changed dates in response to a European Union directive to standardize daylight time beginning in 1996. That led to problems with Finnish dates in at least one version of Windows.

A few countries even change dates every year.

Israel, for instance, bases daylight time on the lunar Jewish calendar, and Palestinians change their clocks at different times as an assertion of independence. Windows doesn't even provide an auto-adjust option for the time zone covering Jerusalem.

Moti Tzur, a sales manager at Sakal Electronics Ltd. in Jerusalem, says the constant changes do little to confound manufacturers, sales representatives or consumers.

"We get up and change the time on the VCR ourselves," Tzur said. "These things come with directions."

But while other countries have coped, Americans have largely become complacent and expect many clocks to change automatically because dates have been set for two decades, said Lauren Weinstein, a veteran technologist.

"Missiles won't be launching but it's still going to cause a lot of hassle," he said. Risks grow when "things advance to the point where you expect things to happen automatically and you expect it to be correct."
 
The first thing I thought of, when I heard the news story, was, "My computers are all going to adjust themselves for DST on the wrong day!"

Tip o' the iceberg, I suppose.
 
I think extending daylight savings is a brilliant idea. I don't think the effect will be too big.
 
I think the real question here is, "how will this effect my online pornography"?
 
SgtSpiderMan said:
I think extending daylight savings is a brilliant idea. I don't think the effect will be too big.
I remember they tried extending DST back in the energy crisis during the Carter administration. The kids were coming home from school in daylight )"It will be safer for the kids," we were told) forgetting that they would be getting on the buses in the dark. There are only so many minutes of daylight each day.

If the idea is to have more daylight hours for working, do what the farmers do: Get your ass out of bed at dawn and get to it.
 
SgtSpiderMan said:
I think extending daylight savings is a brilliant idea. I don't think the effect will be too big.

I don't see where it helps anything. I'd rather just have a standard sleep schedule 36(5|6) days a year than having to have it shifted an hour twice a year. The days of it mattering for lowering energy consumption went away when homes starting being built with central A/C & Heating.

The whole, we get an extra hour of daylight at the end of the day arguement just does nothing for me. Is like people forget that means they will be getting up and going places in their normal morning hours when it is still dark.

For me the idea of DST has outlived the reason why it was implimented originally.
 
sticky_keyboard said:
I remember they tried extending DST back in the energy crisis during the Carter administration. The kids were coming home from school in daylight )"It will be safer for the kids," we were told) forgetting that they would be getting on the buses in the dark. There are only so many minutes of daylight each day.

If the idea is to have more daylight hours for working, do what the farmers do: Get your ass out of bed at dawn and get to it.

I live in Florida, kids are allready going to school in the dark here.
 
I now think, and always have thought that daylight savings time is the most stupid thing to have. We go to extreme measures to set time as accurately as we can in this day and age...yet we still play with it by moving it back and forth an hour...for such an inane reason as keeping the doors open to a business.

It has never made much of any difference to schools or travel to and from...in the areas it helps, it is only a time zone away that it is hindering.

It is a pain in the ass that cost us lost time and productive effort. It causes unneeded stress, trying to keep straight...is it spring ahead...fall behind...or fall ahead and spring behind?

In the end...I think that nature does it best...set the damned time and leave it the fuck alone.


There...*dusts off soapbox* Next?
 
SgtSpiderMan said:
I live in Florida, kids are allready going to school in the dark here.
I didn't know there were any kids in Florida.

I thought it was all retired northerners, waiting for their appointment with the undertaker.
 
sticky_keyboard said:
I didn't know there were any kids in Florida.

I thought it was all retired northerners, waiting for their appointment with the undertaker.

They need people to serve them the early bird special don't they?
 
Y2K is going to fuck all our computers too. :D

If you can't reset your DVD/VCR/Tivo/computer clocks you really shouldn't have them in the first place. :p
 
I agree... I'm not fooled by the artificially extended hours either. We will naturally get extended daylight in the summer. The days when farm hands needed the extra time to harvest isn't practical now (unfortunately, but that's another thread).


Oh, and I was soooo ready for Y2K. I was on the 6 month survival plan complete with entertainment categories! :D
 
Image said:
I agree... I'm not fooled by the artificially extended hours either. We will naturally get extended daylight in the summer. The days when farm hands needed the extra time to harvest isn't practical now (unfortunately, but that's another thread).


Oh, and I was soooo ready for Y2K. I was on the 6 month survival plan complete with entertainment categories! :D

Everything I've heard had farmers not liking DST because it threw off their schedule when doing deliveries & such. Made sense to me since farming always seemed to be a sunup to sundown type endeavor with clocks being fairly meaningless except maybe for scheduling meals.
 
The tech designers should never have set up anything based on an act of Congress.

The DST feature, like all features, should be fully adjustable by the user. Someone decided that would be too complex or make the manual too large or something, so now the users lose out.

I have an old Panasonic video camera which shows the time and date on the screen, provided the date is between 1980 and 1999. If I want to date-stamp something today, I use a clapboard.
 
Think of the automatically adjusting time clocks that will record employees as being an hour early/late per day.
 
MakersandIce said:
Think of the automatically adjusting time clocks that will record employees as being an hour early/late per day.
That was an issue when DST started, but it's being dealt with.

You know the change happens at 2:00AM on a Sunday morning, right?
 
So, I work night shift. If I start work at 2300 and the adjustment happens at 0200 to spring back - I will basically be working 10 hours for 8 hours pay. If this affected me I might have a problem with that.

I guess the flip side is that one day a year I would work 6 hours for 8 hours pay.
 
The article states that newer VCR's and DVD recorders rely on internal calendars. I thought the latest appliances synchronized to the broadcast time codes, and therefore wouldn't have a problem.
 
phrodeau said:
The article states that newer VCR's and DVD recorders rely on internal calendars. I thought the latest appliances synchronized to the broadcast time codes, and therefore wouldn't have a problem.

Hmmm... If they are syncing time to WWV, yeah it shouldn't be. I hadn't seen anything saying they were.

DVRs seem to get their time updates from the cable company.

It is BS to tweek DST for what little it returns. I haven't heard anything which will make me buy into the energy arguement. It sounds out like bogus politicial pork to make it look like they are doing something useful instead of actually doing something useful.
 
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