Need some help fleshing out a pathwork monster of a character

[HHHawkeye]

Need some help fleshing out a patchwork monster of a character

After posting the prologue some time ago, I've been making progress on the first chapter of my story, Tales from the Embassy, a story about a bunch of women from Bliservia, an island nation whose women are so innately and instinctually submissive that all women who live there are willingly and legally enslaved. The story follows these women, who have come of age and have decided it's time to return to the fatherland and embrace the bondage they long for, as they board the ship that will take them home in chains.

As such, almost all PoVs are female (also because for some reason, despite being male myself, and straight, that's the PoV I find myself most comfortable writing erotica in). However, there is one man who's a PoV character basically out of necessity, and the issue I'm having is that due to him, plotwise, mostly being a prop to make the sexual fantasies of his wife (also a PoV character) work, when it came time to write him as a PoV character I discovered he was a frankenstein's monster of contradictory personality traits and motivations I'm having trouble reconciling and writing convincingly or interestingly, and I think he needs a major retool. And I was wondering if I could get some feedback from here on that front. Here's the outline of his role in the story:

Arthur is a 20 year old man who, two years prior to the start of the story, was just a random nobody who failed to get accepted into any colleges and was wondering what to do with his life, when suddenly a woman named Anya Safflower, an incredibly rich and famous Bliservian woman 10 years his senior, stops him on the street and invites him to dinner. A week or so of dates later, he finds himself being proposed to by her.

For reasons almost entirely beyond his comprehension, this woman wants to marry him, teach him the Bliservian language, and then take him with her to the country of her birth, where, as her husband, he'll not only keep her as a slave, but inherit absolutely everything she owns.

Now, while on Arthur's end this sounds like an absurdly unrealistic (to the point of stupid) wish fulfillment fantasy, the real focus here is that it's actually all a part of Anya's elaborate sexual fantasy. The reason she's waited until the age of 30 before going home is because she's been working for more than a decade to make the moment she returns to the fatherland as sublimely humiliating as it can possibly be, and marrying a naive, barely-legal boy with almost no experience whatsoever with women is an extremely important part of that. However, here's the problem. The sort of man she needs Arthur to be for her plan to work is as follows:

1: He has to be easily intimidated, manipulated and kowtowed by her feminine wiles, the sort of person she can get to do damned near whatever she wants simply by dangling sex over his head.
2: He has to be absolutely enraptured by her and her beauty, nearly to the point of worship.

However, conversely,

3: He has to be the sort of person an island of obedient, submissive and eager-to-please women would appeal to enough to leave America with her.
4: He has to be okay not only with the idea of keeping Anya as a sex slave, but since she's also (like a good number of other main characters in the story) choosing to be human livestock rather than a run-of-the-mill sex slave, not be extremely uncomfortable with the idea of being in a sexual relationship with someone for 2 years and then owning them like fuckable cattle and never hearing them talk again.

And on top of all of this conflicting nonsense, ideally,

5: He should have enough appealing or endearing qualities that another character in the story could have a crush on him and the reader could remotely believe it.

I've been trying to balance all of these "ideal traits" in my head and make sense of a POV character who fits all of them, but it always feels like 1+2 and 3+4 are mutually exclusive unless I make him a deeply pathetic and unlikable person in some unavoidable way. So I thought I'd turn here to get some advice from here. Your two cents, or any number of cents honestly, would be appreciated.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

5: He should have enough appealing or endearing qualities that another character in the story could have a crush on him and the reader could remotely believe it.

At first blush, having only thought about it for a few minutes (and therefore subject to rebuttal), I think this is your hinge, or glue, or whatever metaphor you want. (and forgive me if I misspell the name of your island):

Ask yourself, what qualities would a Bliservian woman find endearing, given that all Bliservian woman want to be submissive, want to be owned and that some subset of them want to be treated as cattle. Qualities those women might find endearing might seem abhorrent in a more egalitarian society. So his naivety, guilelessness, might themselves be attractive to women who are surrounded by (presumably) inherently confident men who have known all their lives that they will own their wives.

The fact that this man approaches the women differently, that he doesn't understand all the rules, and yet is open to the experience might *itself* be the things that cause the other person to develop feelings for him.

I think you'd have to flesh out the motivations of the character who has the crush on him, to let the readers see him through her [presumably] eyes. That might soften or round out any contradictions in his character that appear from his point of view.

 

[SimonDoom]

After posting the prologue some time ago, I've been making progress on the first chapter of my story, Tales from the Embassy, a story about a bunch of women from Bliservia, an island nation whose women are so innately and instinctually submissive that all women who live there are willingly and legally enslaved. The story follows these women, who have come of age and have decided it's time to return to the fatherland and embrace the bondage they long for, as they board the ship that will take them home in chains.

As such, almost all PoVs are female (also because for some reason, despite being male myself, and straight, that's the PoV I find myself most comfortable writing erotica in). However, there is one man who's a PoV character basically out of necessity, and the issue I'm having is that due to him, plotwise, mostly being a prop to make the sexual fantasies of his wife (also a PoV character) work, when it came time to write him as a PoV character I discovered he was a frankenstein's monster of contradictory personality traits and motivations I'm having trouble reconciling and writing convincingly or interestingly, and I think he needs a major retool. And I was wondering if I could get some feedback from here on that front. Here's the outline of his role in the story:

Arthur is a 20 year old man who, two years prior to the start of the story, was just a random nobody who failed to get accepted into any colleges and was wondering what to do with his life, when suddenly a woman named Anya Safflower, an incredibly rich and famous Bliservian woman 10 years his senior, stops him on the street and invites him to dinner. A week or so of dates later, he finds himself being proposed to by her.

For reasons almost entirely beyond his comprehension, this woman wants to marry him, teach him the Bliservian language, and then take him with her to the country of her birth, where, as her husband, he'll not only keep her as a slave, but inherit absolutely everything she owns.

Now, while on Arthur's end this sounds like an absurdly unrealistic (to the point of stupid) wish fulfillment fantasy, the real focus here is that it's actually all a part of Anya's elaborate sexual fantasy. The reason she's waited until the age of 30 before going home is because she's been working for more than a decade to make the moment she returns to the fatherland as sublimely humiliating as it can possibly be, and marrying a naive, barely-legal boy with almost no experience whatsoever with women is an extremely important part of that. However, here's the problem. The sort of man she needs Arthur to be for her plan to work is as follows:

1: He has to be easily intimidated, manipulated and kowtowed by her feminine wiles, the sort of person she can get to do damned near whatever she wants simply by dangling sex over his head.
2: He has to be absolutely enraptured by her and her beauty, nearly to the point of worship.

However, conversely,

3: He has to be the sort of person an island of obedient, submissive and eager-to-please women would appeal to enough to leave America with her.
4: He has to be okay not only with the idea of keeping Anya as a sex slave, but since she's also (like a good number of other main characters in the story) choosing to be human livestock rather than a run-of-the-mill sex slave, not be extremely uncomfortable with the idea of being in a sexual relationship with someone for 2 years and then owning them like fuckable cattle and never hearing them talk again.

And on top of all of this conflicting nonsense, ideally,

5: He should have enough appealing or endearing qualities that another character in the story could have a crush on him and the reader could remotely believe it.

I've been trying to balance all of these "ideal traits" in my head and make sense of a POV character who fits all of them, but it always feels like 1+2 and 3+4 are mutually exclusive unless I make him a deeply pathetic and unlikable person in some unavoidable way. So I thought I'd turn here to get some advice from here. Your two cents, or any number of cents honestly, would be appreciated.

I have no idea.

I think you need to spend some time thinking of him as a real person and ask yourself: what's his story arc in this story? What's his perspective? Who is he? What is his fundamental need? How is it challenged in the story? I don't think anyone can answer that for you. It seems like you've come up with an interesting and complicated story, but you might want to spend some time thinking about exactly what points of view you want to tell it from. How do you imagine this story ending, and where do each of the POV characters end up when they get there?

 

[ElectricBlue]

... when it came time to write him as a PoV character I discovered he was a frankenstein's monster of contradictory personality traits and motivations I'm having trouble reconciling and writing convincingly or interestingly, and I think he needs a major retool. And I was wondering if I could get some feedback from here on that front.

My guess as to what's happening (based only on the single sample of me, because this is what my erotica does) is that your subconscious is hard at work, revealing more about you the writer than you thought you knew, or perhaps even wanted to know. You say you're more comfortable writing the female, subservient pov, but that might be a distancing thing.

In my case at least, I write erotica as a self-indulgence, but having written a word or too, I keep finding myself returning to a common theme, and that's me. It's my sexual psyche that bubbles up in most everything I write, and that's my guess in this instance - you're really writing about yourself.

My advice? Keep writing this contradictory character, let him live and breath, let him tell you his story. Do it without consciously censoring and editting out characteristics you don't like, and you might just find a revelation.

You might not be writing the story you thought you were. You might be writing something else entirely.

I might be completely wrong, of course, you might just be writing about a fantasy slave world where women are submissive. But you might be writing the opposite. It wouldn't be the first time writing erotica leads to self-discovery. Just a thought. Keep writing, though, to find out .

 

[HHHawkeye]

At first blush, having only thought about it for a few minutes (and therefore subject to rebuttal), I think this is your hinge, or glue, or whatever metaphor you want. (and forgive me if I misspell the name of your island):

Ask yourself, what qualities would a Bliservian woman find endearing, given that all Bliservian woman want to be submissive, want to be owned and that some subset of them want to be treated as cattle. Qualities those women might find endearing might seem abhorrent in a more egalitarian society. So his naivety, guilelessness, might themselves be attractive to women who are surrounded by (presumably) inherently confident men who have known all their lives that they will own their wives.

The fact that this man approaches the women differently, that he doesn't understand all the rules, and yet is open to the experience might *itself* be the things that cause the other person to develop feelings for him.

I think you'd have to flesh out the motivations of the character who has the crush on him, to let the readers see him through her [presumably] eyes. That might soften or round out any contradictions in his character that appear from his point of view.

That is an interesting point. On the other hand, Bliservian women are raised overseas in freedom (because about 10% of them decide they don't like the idea of being enslaved at all, and also because they just have no place for underage women in their society), so presumably most of their exposure to men would be the foreign, more egalitarian kind, so it would be less of a novelty for most. But that line of reasoning could help some, and motivations similar to that are what's fueling Anya to begin with...

 

[MelissaBaby]

Meek, easily intimidated, but finds the idea of dominating and controlling women appealing?

Not to be glib, but you just described every incel fanboy on Twitter and Reddit.

Seriously, go on twitter and search #BrieLarson or #WonderWoman and you'll find tons of guys just like you're describing.

 

[MelissaBaby]

That is an interesting point. On the other hand, since Bliservian women are raised overseas in freedom (because about 10% of them decide they don't like the idea of being enslaved at all, and also because they just have no place for underage women in their society), so presumably most of their exposure to men would be the foreign, more egalitarian kind, so it would be less of a novelty for most. But that line of reasoning could help some, and motivations similar to that are what's fueling Anya to begin with...

I grew up not far from a small Amish community. The Amish have a custom of the young people leaving for a year, to live and work outside their community. Most decide they don't want to live "in the world" and return home. But while they are out, some of them become the wildest party animals around, drinking smoking, fucking their brains out. End of the year, they return to their communities and spend the rest of their lives there.

You might want to consider that with your Bliservian women. They are likely, when out "in the world" to go far afield rom what is acceptable at home. That would factor into their frame of reference once they have returned.

 

[HHHawkeye]

Meek, easily intimidated, but finds the idea of dominating and controlling women appealing?

Not to be glib, but you just described every incel fanboy on Twitter and Reddit.

Hence why point 5 is giving me such trouble. Nearly all instances that can fit 1-4 tend to leave a fairly ugly picture for 5.

This is what I get by initially visualizing a character as little more than a prop for his wife's sexual fetishes.

Also, your comments about the partying young Amish are actually quite apt for this story. A lot of Bliservian women enjoy relishing in the freedoms of western life, usually because they like the contrast it makes when they finally give it all up. Some women, like Anya, even pursue high-paying, high-skill careers for no other purpose than to have more things to surrender.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Also, your comments about the partying young Amish are actually quite apt for this story. A lot of Bliservian women enjoy relishing in the freedoms of western life, usually because they like the contrast it makes when they finally give it all up. Some women, like Anya, even pursue high-paying, high-skill careers for no other purpose than to have more things to surrender.

It also speaks to the issue of consent. They went away, then came back of their own free will, with full knowledge of the alternatives.

 

[SimonDoom]

I wonder if you are trying to do too many things with this story.

If Anya is going to back to her home country to be subservient, then why doesn't she want to be married to a native of her homeland who is a dominant male? Why would she want to recruit someone who's younger, who's not a dominant person, and who doesn't speak the language or know the customs? I don't get it. Before focusing on him I'd suggest working on Anya so her character's motivations completely make sense. If she really wants to be subservient, then she isn't going to want to be with a man you is naive and non-dominant. I don't understand the motivation here.

This seems like a story to tell from one POV or the other, not multiple POVs, because telling it from just one will increase the element of surprise and discovery, which may be important.

 

[HectorBidon]

Or you could make him a basically decent guy who really does become smitten with Anya and is glad to go to her homeland out of his love for her, not knowing the customs there and not realizing what he is getting himself into. That way you'll be able to let the reader see the land through his naive eyes. Anya assumes that he, being a man, will naturally take on the dominant role when he gets there. But maybe she's misjudged him. He struggles between his desire to make Anya happy by letting her live out her fantasy and his desire to have her back as the equal partner she was here in America.

 

[HHHawkeye]

If Anya is going to back to her home country to be subservient, then why doesn't she want to be married to a native of her homeland who is a dominant male? Why would she want to recruit someone who's younger, who's not a dominant person, and who doesn't speak the language or know the customs?

Well, she doesn't want to marry a native of Bliservia because it's a popular and encouraged tradition to for Bliservian women to marry and bring over exotic non-Bliservian men to spice up the slave gene pool with exotic features.

And she wants someone less traditionally dominant largely because she wants to personally experience the full shift of the power dynamic and see how he changes as a person once he's been given absolute power over her.

This seems like a story to tell from one POV or the other, not multiple POVs, because telling it from just one will increase the element of surprise and discovery, which may be important.

Well, first, this is a story that has multiple different POVs to begin with, being a sort of anthology of stories all taking place at the same time and in the same place. But I get what you're trying to say, this particular story. Unfortunately, the story can't wholly be told from his point of view because there's a lot of stuff that happens to Anya later down the line that he doesn't see.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

OK, interesting concept and it has the potential to be a very good yarn, but IMHO you’re going to have one flaming b**** of a time doing this well. And if it’s not done well, it’ll be pathetic. I see it as either a blazing success or a soggy mess, with no possibility of something in the middle.

Here’s my concern. Theree was a discussion a while back about realism or at least credibility. Things have to make sense or the whole thing fails.

Now a society of genetically-submissive women is conceivable. Importing husbands is conceivable (and I’m told the Ottoman rulers were required to have had a foreign-born mother). But there’s a big pothole in the conceivability road, for me at least.

Women going away to succeed offshore is central to this, yet the basic emotional qualities required for success are hard to equate with a submissive character.

And she wants, if I understand it, to watch a wimp - her wimp - change into her dom. Again, that just seems out of character for a natural sub.

Oh, minor perhaps, and what happens to the men left at home?

I think this central disconnect is going to be hard to overcome. I do wish you all possible success.