Need help explaining "then" vs. "than"

[AsylumSeeker]

Hi all. I have always billed myself as a decent editor because I have no "formal" English education. In my editing I have a writer who is having difficulty with "then" versus "than". I inherently know which to use, but I am unable to explain the difference.

There are a lot of really smart people here and I was wondering if any of you can offer an explanation? Maybe not, just asking.

 

[nerk]

then is used to tell time
than is used to make a comparison

 

[mynameisben]

Hi all. I have always billed myself as a decent editor because I have no "formal" English education. In my editing I have a writer who is having difficulty with "then" versus "than". I inherently know which to use, but I am unable to explain the difference.

There are a lot of really smart people here and I was wondering if any of you can offer an explanation? Maybe not, just asking.

"Then" has to do with time sequences. First you do this, THEN you do that.
"Than" is used for comparisons. You would rather do this THAN do that.

 

[kimbalee]

I think this is especially difficult to explain to a person with a southern accent who pronounces both words exactly the same... (they both sound like "thay-un" to me when I hear them with a southern accent)

another example is the pin/pen similarities. (again, sounds like "pee-un" to me) if I don't hear the words used in a sentence when they say them, I have no idea which word they mean.

 

[MicKay]

I think this is especially difficult to explain to a person with a southern accent who pronounces both words exactly the same... (they both sound like "thay-un" to me when I hear them with a southern accent)

another example is the pin/pen similarities. (again, sounds like "pee-un" to me) if I don't hear the words used in a sentence when they say them, I have no idea which word they mean.

Well that explains why I didn't understand the question! <- southern girl
Seriously though, it's a simple rule that we tend to forget when we get older. I see the same issue with effect vs affect.

 

[nerk]

Well that explains why I didn't understand the question! <- southern girl
Seriously though, it's a simple rule that we tend to forget when we get older. I see the same issue with effect vs affect.

two things:
1: southern girls
2: I think affect is the verb and effect is the noun, but I usually try to find a different word on that one.

 

[mynameisben]

two things:

2: I think affect is the verb and effect is the noun, but I usually try to find a different word on that one.

You are not alone. The word "impact" has enjoyed meteoric success as a bastard substitute for both effect and affect, for the very reason the rules separating the homophonic pair are so convoluted and sublime.

 

[kimbalee]

You are not alone. The word "impact" has enjoyed meteoric success as a bastard substitute for both effect and affect, for the very reason the rules separating the homophonic pair are so convoluted and sublime.

I don't think I use the words "convoluted" and "sublime" nearly enough in my every day conversation. making a note to do something about that, pronto.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

"Then" has to do with time sequences. First you do this, THEN you do that.
"Than" is used for comparisons. You would rather do this THAN do that.

This makes sense, and it's stated in easy to understand terms that even a guy like me can understand, and so the writer will probably be able to as well.

Thanks everybody!

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

You are not alone. The word "impact" has enjoyed meteoric success as a bastard substitute for both effect and affect, for the very reason the rules separating the homophonic pair are so convoluted and sublime.

Actually they are not homophones in most accents. However, to add to the confusion "effect" can be a verb also, meaning "to bring about" , as in "He effected the schedule changes and that affected my wages."

I don't think I use the words "convoluted" and "sublime" nearly enough in my every day conversation. making a note to do something about that, pronto.

May I recommend Reader's Digest's "Increase Your Wordpower", or Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary's "Word of the Day"? If you work assiduously at those, you will be using lots of words nobody else understands before you can say "dactyliomancy".

 

[deisatru]

then is used to tell time
than is used to make a comparison

Then is not just used to tell time. Excellent place I am getting my statements from:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/then

adverb
1.
at that time: Prices were lower then.
2.
immediately or soon afterward: The rain stopped and then started again.
3.
next in order of time: We ate, then we started home.
4.
at the same time: At first the water seemed blue, then gray.
5.
next in order of place: Standing beside Charlie is my uncle, then my cousin, then my brother.
6.
in addition; besides; also: I love my job, and then it pays so well.
7.
in that case; as a consequence; in those circumstances: If you're sick, then you should stay in bed.
8.
since that is so; as it appears; therefore: You have, then, found the mistake? You are leaving tonight then.
–adjective
9.
being; being such; existing or being at the time indicated: the then prime minister.
–noun
10.
that time: We have not been back since then. Till then, farewell.
—Idioms
11.
but then, but on the other hand: I found their conversation very dull, but then I have different tastes.
12.
then and there, at that precise time and place; at once; on the spot: I started to pack my things right then and there. Also, there and then.

 

[nerk]

Oh sure, throw the book at me.
And then look up words in it.

Then is not just used to tell time. Excellent place I am getting my statements from:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/then

adverb
1.
at that time: Prices were lower then.
2.
immediately or soon afterward: The rain stopped and then started again.
3.
next in order of time: We ate, then we started home.
4.
at the same time: At first the water seemed blue, then gray.
5.
next in order of place: Standing beside Charlie is my uncle, then my cousin, then my brother.
6.
in addition; besides; also: I love my job, and then it pays so well.
7.
in that case; as a consequence; in those circumstances: If you're sick, then you should stay in bed.
8.
since that is so; as it appears; therefore: You have, then, found the mistake? You are leaving tonight then.
–adjective
9.
being; being such; existing or being at the time indicated: the then prime minister.
–noun
10.
that time: We have not been back since then. Till then, farewell.
—Idioms
11.
but then, but on the other hand: I found their conversation very dull, but then I have different tastes.
12.
then and there, at that precise time and place; at once; on the spot: I started to pack my things right then and there. Also, there and then.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

THEN to follow up on THAN...

than   /ðæn, ðɛn; unstressed ðən, ən/ Show Spelled[than, then; unstressed thuhn, uhn] Show IPA
–conjunction
1. (used, as after comparative adjectives and adverbs, to introduce the second member of an unequal comparison): She's taller than I am.
2. (used after some adverbs and adjectives expressing choice or diversity, such as other, otherwise, else, anywhere, or different, to introduce an alternative or denote a difference in kind, place, style, identity, etc.): I had no choice other than that. You won't find such freedom anywhere else than in this country.
3. (used to introduce the rejected choice in expressions of preference): I'd rather walk than drive there.
4. except; other than: We had no choice than to return home.
5. when: We had barely arrived than we had to leave again.
–preposition
6. in relation to; by comparison with (usually fol. by a pronoun in the objective case): He is a person than whom I can imagine no one more courteous.


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Origin:
bef. 900; ME, OE than ( ne ) than, then, when, var. (in special senses) of thonne then; c. G dann then, denn than, D dan then, than


—Can be confused:   than, then (see usage note at this entry ).


—Usage note
Whether than is to be followed by the objective or subjective case of a pronoun is much discussed in usage guides. When, as a conjunction, than introduces a subordinate clause, the case of any pronouns following than is determined by their function in that clause: He is younger than I am. I like her better than I like him. When than is followed only by a pronoun or pronouns, with no verb expressed, the usual advice for determining the case is to form a clause mentally after than to see whether the pronoun would be a subject or an object. Thus, the sentences He was more upset than I and She gave him more sympathy than I are to be understood, respectively, as He was more upset than I was and She gave him more sympathy than I gave him. In the second sentence, the use of the objective case after than ( She gave him more sympathy than me ) would produce a different meaning ( She gave him more sympathy than she gave me ). This method of determining the case of pronouns after than is generally employed in formal speech and writing.
Than occurs as a preposition in the old and well-established construction than whom : a musician than whom none is more expressive. In informal, especially uneducated, speech and writing, than is usually treated as a preposition and followed by the objective case of the pronoun: He is younger than me. She plays better poker than him, but you play even better than her. See also but1 , different, me.

 

[Sweet_Pea24]

I think this is especially difficult to explain to a person with a southern accent who pronounces both words exactly the same... (they both sound like "thay-un" to me when I hear them with a southern accent)

another example is the pin/pen similarities. (again, sounds like "pee-un" to me) if I don't hear the words used in a sentence when they say them, I have no idea which word they mean.

LoL try taking a trip to the Northern states and trying to buy a lighter...They come back with "This is a convenience store, we don't carry ladders."

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

There is a very famous UK TV comedy sketch where a man asks in an ironmonger's (US hardware store) if they sell replacement parts for garden implements.

The shop owner says, "Yes," disappears for a few moments and puts four candles on the counter, saying "There you are, four candles."

"No," replies the irate customer, "fork 'andles, 'andles for forks."

 

[mynameisben]

There is a very famous UK TV comedy sketch where a man asks in an ironmonger's (US hardware store) if they sell replacement parts for garden implements.

The shop owner says, "Yes," disappears for a few moments and puts four candles on the counter, saying "There you are, four candles."

"No," replies the irate customer, "fork 'andles, 'andles for forks."

Reminds me of my last impromptu camping trip. Seems I was a bit short on the essentials. So I went over to my next door neighbor and asked her, "Do you have an ice chest?"

She slapped me.

 

[kimbalee]

LoL try taking a trip to the Northern states and trying to buy a lighter...They come back with "This is a convenience store, we don't carry ladders."

chuckling. yes, I can see that would be a problem.

Reminds me of my last impromptu camping trip. Seems I was a bit short on the essentials. So I went over to my next door neighbor and asked her, "Do you have an ice chest?"

She slapped me.

hahaha. maybe if you weren't staring at her cleavage and drooling, things would have gone better.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

two things:
1: southern girls
2: I think affect is the verb and effect is the noun, but I usually try to find a different word on that one.

Affect is a noun, too. In psychotherapy 'affect' is your present emotional/somatic condition....say... drunk!...or excited!...or exhausted!

1.Affect refers to the experience of feeling or emotion. Affect is a key part of the process of an organism's interaction with stimuli. The word also refers sometimes to affect display, which is "a facial, vocal, or gestural behavior that serves as an indicator of affect" (APA 2006).

2.In linguistics, speaker affect is attitude or emotion that a speaker brings to an utterance. Affects such as sarcasm, contempt, dismissal, distaste, disgust, disbelief, exasperation, boredom, anger, joy, respect or disrespect, sympathy, pity, gratitude, wonder, admiration, humility, and awe.

3."Affect" (latin affectus or adfectus) is a concept used in philosophy by Spinoza, Deleuze and Guattari. According to Spinoza's Ethics III, 3, Definition 3, an affect is an empowerment, and not a simple change or modification.