Need Grammar Help

[R. Richard]

What does the headline mean, in English?

"Buried Treasure: Sword that lay in farmyard barn for 50 years is rare Bronze Age discovery"

 

[Kantarii]

Someone found an antique worth a chunk of change.

 

[Handley_Page]

What does the headline mean, in English?

"Buried Treasure: Sword that lay in farmyard barn for 50 years is rare Bronze Age discovery"

It makes more sense to me as :-
"Buried Treasure: The sword that lay in a farmyard barn for 50 years is rare Bronze Age discovery."

It would seem that the barn is not often used except perhaps for storage (the tractor?) until someone decided to clean it out (re-purpose?) and discovered this old sword.

 

[R. Richard]

The sword lay itself?
Someone lay the sword for 50 years?
What?

 

[Handley_Page]

The sword lay itself?
Someone lay the sword for 50 years?
What?

No. The sword lay undisturbed for 50 years.

The verb lay means ‘to put something down carefully in a flat position’. It must have an object. It is a regular verb, but note the spelling of the past simple and -ed form: laid not layed:

 

[Hypoxia]

I recall an old Mad Magazine take on banners for a Hitchcock film:

THE BIRDS IS HERE! And good grammar in advertising has went!

 

[FantasyXY]

Who lies here, lays here, um whom...

Lay, laid, laying, lying, lie, lies... The use of these words in English has always bothered me... Even more than all the forms of "who".

To make things worse, this line was from a barker for an article where grammatically incorrect twists are meant to make the reader say, "What the fuck?".

 

[Serafina1210]

Lay, laid, laying, lying, lie, lies... The use of these words in English has always bothered me... Even more than all the forms of "who".

To make things worse, this line was from a barker for an article where grammatically incorrect twists are meant to make the reader say, "What the fuck?".

Two separate but related verbs:

lie: be in or assume a horizontal position. I lie, he lies, we are lying. Past tense she lay. Perfect we have lain.

lay: cause to lie; set something down in a horizontal position. I lay, he lays, we are laying. Past tense she laid. Perfect we have laid.

Of course, if you're writing dialogue, and your characters aren't hyper-educated, you can and probably should mix these verbs up.

Same with who/whom. In colloquial American English it sounds better to say "Who are you going with" than "Whom are you going with?" or "With whom are you going?" And "who/whom" introducing a relative clause can usually be omitted.

 

[FantasyXY]

Just lie there you lying liers... no wiat... lay there?... lie there? shit!

Two separate but related verbs:

lie: be in or assume a horizontal position. I lie, he lies, we are lying. Past tense she lay. Perfect we have lain.

lay: cause to lie; set something down in a horizontal position. I lay, he lays, we are laying. Past tense she laid. Perfect we have laid.

Of course, if you're writing dialogue, and your characters aren't hyper-educated, you can and probably should mix these verbs up.

Same with who/whom. In colloquial American English it sounds better to say "Who are you going with" than "Whom are you going with?" or "With whom are you going?" And "who/whom" introducing a relative clause can usually be omitted.

I think it's that whole lie thing. Doesn't that mean to falsify something?

I'm not saying that I can't figure out how and when to use any of these words, but they always make me pause for a moment when I am writing. Somehow they never quite look right to me.

 

[sr71plt]

The lie/lay business is an irritant in writing erotica. She lies on the couch, but she gets laid there, and you lay the sex toy down beside her, you don't lie it there.

 

[TxRad]

The lie/lay business is an irritant in writing erotica. She lies on the couch, but she gets laid there, and you lay the sex toy down beside her, you don't lie it there.

But then again, it could all be a lie.

 

[Serafina1210]

I think it's that whole lie thing. Doesn't that mean to falsify something?

I'm not saying that I can't figure out how and when to use any of these words, but they always make me pause for a moment when I am writing. Somehow they never quite look right to me.

That too. Lie "tell an untruth" and lie "assume a horizontal position" are homophones (in the present tense only), but historically unrelated.

lie "tell an untruth": I lie, he lies, she is lying, we lied, they have lied.

lie "assume a horizontal position": I lie, he lies, she is lying, we lay, they have lain.

lay "cause to lie; set down": I lay, he lays, she is laying, we laid, they have laid.

There was a time in the history of the language when this all made sense, but that time is no more.

 

[Handley_Page]

That too. Lie "tell an untruth" and lie "assume a horizontal position" are homophones (in the present tense only), but historically unrelated.

lie "tell an untruth": I lie, he lies, she is lying, we lied, they have lied.

lie "assume a horizontal position": I lie, he lies, she is lying, we lay, they have lain.

lay "cause to lie; set down": I lay, he lays, she is laying, we laid, they have laid.

There was a time in the history of the language when this all made sense, but that time is no more.

Probably around the time when "Thou Art" and similar expressions ceased to be used.
Canst thou reckon that ?

 

[Serafina1210]

Probably around the time when "Thou Art" and similar expressions ceased to be used.
Canst thou reckon that ?

[pedantic]

Confusion of the two "lie" verbs is already possible in some Middle English dialects, but the two present tenses are pretty much the same, in London English anyway, by around the time of Shakespeare. So yeah, the same era when "thou art" is going out.

lie "assume a horizontal position": Old English licgan, Middle English liggen, lien.

lie "tell an untruth" Old English leogan, Middle English leghen, leyen, lien.

[/pedantic]

Is it too early for a drink?

 

[Handley_Page]

[pedantic]

Confusion of the two "lie" verbs is already possible in some Middle English dialects, but the two present tenses are pretty much the same, in London English anyway, by around the time of Shakespeare. So yeah, the same era when "thou art" is going out.

lie "assume a horizontal position": Old English licgan, Middle English liggen, lien.

lie "tell an untruth" Old English leogan, Middle English leghen, leyen, lien.

[/pedantic]

Is it too early for a drink?

I think you've earned one!

If you report to the 'Naked Lounge' there'll be one on the Bar for you.

 

[oggbashan]

Lay vs. Lie Chart

Infinitive
to lay
Definition
to put or place
something down
Present
lay(s)
Past
laid
Past Participle
laid
Present Participle
laid

Infinitive
to lie
Definition
to rest or recline
Present
lie(s)
Past
lay
Past Participle
lain
Present Participle
lying

From here: http://www.writersdigest.com/online-editor/lay-vs-lie

It wouldn't format properly!

 

[FantasyXY]

This is way too much, but I'm posting it anyway

Let's not forget lye. Yeah I've actually seen that one misused in stories on Lit.

----------------

Can we have the word lying, meaning to add lye to something the same way adding as salt solution is called brining?

What about the case when there are multiple types of lye. Yes there are at least two different compounds called lye (potassium based, and sodium based). would we refer to these together as lyes, or should it be lies.

----------------

Back to the OP's quote... All of this goofy word usage in English makes great fodder for the writers of newspaper headings.

 

[Handley_Page]

Let's not forget lye. Yeah I've actually seen that one misused in stories on Lit.

----------------

Can we have the word lying, meaning to add lye to something the same way adding as salt solution is called brining?

What about the case when there are multiple types of lye. Yes there are at least two different compounds called lye (potassium based, and sodium based). would we refer to these together as lyes, or should it be lies.

----------------

Back to the OP's quote... All of this goofy word usage in English makes great fodder for the writers of newspaper headings.

Somehow I doubt it.
Lye is Sodium Hydroxide and it's used in making soap.