Necrophilia

[BrainyBeauty]

Breaking news. Plucked from the headlines.

Police are investigating a local photographer after being tipped by employees of a photo processing lab.  He used his new position at the coroner's lab to pose corpses and take pictures 'of a sexual nature'.  He used props.  (He was hired to film a medical procedure and gained access to an unauthorized area after hours. Coroner said last night he is dismayed and will tighten security)

I don't care how 'open minded' you are.  This has to be disturbing and disgusting to you.  I am baffled. What possible titillation or gratification could he get from this?  He apparently took pictures of men, women and children whose bodies were awaiting autopsy.

This begs a few other questions as well.  This man has a large studio - does a professional photographer not have his own lab on premises?  Why on earth would this imbecile send these pics to a photo lab?

More questions:  what do you think of them for alerting the police?  I applaud them.

Also, what do you think of technicians or employees at a computer store reporting what you have on your hard drives? (e.g., porn) Different issues, I know, but it got me to thinking since I have heard several stories about that too lately.

 

[Juspar Emvan]

Disturb?

Yup, but the photo lab should not under any circumstances have been alowed to report it.

I've heard of similar things (breach of privacy) before and frankly they digust me.

 

[Ambrosious]

Making love to a dead woman...

I wondered what my ex-wife was up to.

 

[Closet Desire]

Citizens on patrol...

It sounds like a good deal, but in practice opinions vary on what is or is not appropriate. It might seem clear to you, but here's a story that ought to raise the hair on your neck.

I have a good friend who is an erotic artist...lovely work...sensitive to women...never been considered porn by anyone. He does much of his work by photographing models, in the nude and not, and then doing sketches or paintings from that.

He also attends exhibitions like Erotica and Skin Two and other places where he can sell his work.

And...he has two young daughters.

Took a roll of film in to be processed. On this role were nude models, photos from a show, and pictures of his girls, some in the tub (who HASN'T taken these?).

One morning, early, as he lie in bed recovering from a bad wreck the police came through the front door. They searched everything...his photo albums...his art...his computer before concluding that the charges were unfounded. It was more than SIX MONTHS before he had relaxed enough to start working again (artists will understand why).

A lab technician had decided that he or she would play cop and report this. Was anything served by this except to disrupt a lovely family who weren't doing anything wrong? If you occassionally take photos of yourself or your lover, maybe rather explicit, do you really want to think that some Bible thumping moralist will decides it's smut and turn your life upside down.

Recently a woman in America was found not guilty of taking pornographic photos of her children. The kids were frolicing about and, I seem to recall, one photo included her daughter either in or stepping out of the shower. Porn? The jury didn't think so. Cost? The woman was out thousands in her defense, time, emotional strain, and think of the kids? Kids are very innocent in their sensuality. They only learn later that it is dirty and something to be shameful of. This woman didn't sell pictures of her kids or post them on the interet. She took photos of kids doing what kids do.

Some might say "well, you should have sent it to a confidential lab." Of course, but what are you doing there? You're suggesting there's something wrong with it and you're suggesting that there is a place where criminals should have their film processed in secret. You're turning sex and sensuality into something dirty, nasty, and repugnant which should be restricted to dark alleys and seedy photo processors. (Oh...sorry the "you're" is figurative...I don't mean you).

Where do you draw the line? Some people are offended by breasts...would they call it porn and report you? At the least they would hold up your film until it was sorted out.

It's a big can of squirmy worms.

Speaking of worms...necrophilia...definitely doesn't float my boat! Yuck!

 

[Guest]

I had an ex girlfriend once that I could have sworn was dead. She would just lie there, not make any noise and not move. She was a horible lay. But, no biggie, she's married to an ex boyfriend of mine now. lol

 

[Ravenloft]

I just can't understand why anyone would want to... *Shaking in disgust.*
But then I see fucking someone who is uncontious to be just as bad. Its the human spark to it. If you don't have that then it might as well be a blow up doll.

We are getting to a point where it just seems like everyone is out to get everyone else. When some asshole can peep on people in the apartments across from him with a high power telescope, catch a MARRIED couple having anal sex, or something like that, that just so happens to be "Illegal" where they live, and report these two, get them slapped with a fine and he himself walk away the HERO?! Big brother needs to sit down, chill, AND DRINK A FUCKING BEER!!!

[Edited by Ravenloft on 01-15-2001 at 10:46 AM]

 

[Guest]

Babe...

It's the human spark to it. If you don't have that then it might as well be a blow up doll.

So, should I put the snakes away then?

 

[Ravenloft]

I'd apreciate it if you only took them out when I was around... See, you would still have my spark babe.

 

[Guest]

Talk about your stiff one! Ugh..

 

[Guest]

See, you would still have my spark babe.

Not to mention a rattle or forked tongue or something...

 

[Ravenloft]

*Blushing*

But seriously, Necro aside, is there too much protection? Does the older bro need a lay?

 

[jcgirl]

now that's what you call a sick fuck

 

[Guest]

.

 

[teresafannin]

What angers me is that the photographer never stopped to consider how the families would feel if those pictures were made public. Just the thought that crime scene & autopsy pictures of my son are out there is terrible. People have offered me money for those pictures, I have never seen them & don't ever want to. I think it is a violation of privacy, both of the dead & their families.

On another topic involving photographers, my sister nursed her daughter. For Father's Day, she wanted some pictures made of her nursing the baby for her hubby. She was told by nearly every photo studio in town that they could not take "pornographic" photos. How moronic is that? She wrote a letter to the editor, caused a huge commotion, but found a photographer who took some lovely pictures of her & the baby. She wore a nursing gown & was less nude than she would be in a swim suit. One of the photographers who turned her down is the main photographer for children's beauty pageants, talk about distasteful. Little girls made up to look like adults is much worse than a nursing mother.

 

[Closet Desire]

Now that's pornographic...

I've never been involved first hand these beauty pageants, but I something on discovery about pageants and was flabbergasted to see these little, and I mean little, girls trying to mimic what could only be sexual gestures. The makeup, the clothing, the dancing. I didn't see talent...only exploitation. It made me really sad.

Of course, breasts are pornographic too...don't you know anything? That makes me sad too. We're going through the ages where my stepdaughter is developing and she started out being very self-conscious because of how the other girls at school are. We are very open here at home about these things and she finally relaxed a bit and started to be proud of how she looks (I'm mortified at the idea that some fathers or step-fathers could abuse their daughters at this time or anytime). (sigh)

I'm glad she found a photographer who would do it. It will probably be something she will really treasure in the future years.

 

[teresafannin]

My niece is 9 & we think she is the most beautiful little girl on the planet. I have lost count of the times we have been out & complete strangers have come up to us to ask if we want to put her in pageants, modeling,etc. Her mom has a good head on her shoulders & is raising our princess to be a smart, secure, confident young lady. I remember high school & being smaller than the other girls. I hated PE, hated feeling like I was less than other girls because I looked so young. I was always very open with my son. We live in a small apartment, but always respected each other's privacy. I raised him that it isn't how you look that is important, it is who you are inside. He was very well liked by both girls & guys & had tons of good friends.

 

[SeXy ReDHeD]

The most disgusting perversion I can think of.

For the most part, I agree with what the photo lab did. There's a difference between having discretion and reporting a crime. I'm sure it's not legal to position and photograph dead bodies in any situation (unless you're the coroner or medical examiner, which this guy obviously wasn't).

What if some sicko murdered a few people and photographed it, then took the prints to be developed at a local film lab. Don't you feel the employees from the lab are obligated to report this? Or is the murderer's right to privacy more important?

In both cases, regardless of the moral issues, the acts caught on film constituted a crime and therefore should be reported. In the necrophilia case in particular, the lab made the right choice. I'm sure if it were nude or semi-nude pictures of a loved one, the photo lab probably wouldn't have made the same decision.

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[BrainyBeauty]

Let's try this again. Take 2

I'd like to clarify a few points. I remain staunch in my belief that the photo lab employee did the right thing. Not only morally, but legally as well.

CD- I am sorry about your friend.  I have heard of similar situations here- probably the same woman you referred to. She took innocent photos of her daughter in the tub and the photo processing employee reported her.  Same outcome after the trial- she was found not guilty but emotionally and financially it took a large toll. I am sure an experience like that is highly traumatic for the people involved.

I do see a problem with that. Who is to say what is offensive, obscene or illegal? Probably not some pimply 18 year old kid working for minimum wage. Same thing applies to the technicians who search the hard drives of computers and decide on their own to call the police.  I believe that is an invasion of privacy.  I do not dismiss that or take that subject lightly. I do not advocate a vigilante mentality whatsoever.

However, unless I am misunderstanding you and Juspar, the people who turned in this photographer were totally justified. This is just a totally different can of worms. I am fairly certain that there is a law in both of your countries similar to the one here. It is called abuse of a corpse. Furthermore, we also have a local law where these photography companies are obligated to report potential illegalities. So, Juspar, your comment "Yup, but the photo lab should not under any circumstances have been alowed to report it. " flies in the face of law.

Can we all agree that in addition to being illegal, it is also extremely disrespectful of our dead? That was my original point. It is a violation of the standards of human decency  I am sure that neither of you meant that someone's privacy is more important than someone getting his jollies with a dead body!

I just wanted to clear up any misconceptions of your responses.  If I am wrong, please enlighten me.

A final point- am currently watching the news. Now, one cannot argue that this was, by any stretch of the imagination, a crime of 'convenience'. You know- that he just happened to be there and took advantage of the situation. No. It was obvious that he planned the entire thing. He conned some employees to allow him access to the restricted area- the morgue. He brought the props with him from home or his studio whatever. He placed items on the bodies and snapped away.

Teresa and Sexy Red are right. I hardly consider this a joking matter. I think most folks would be horrified if they saw someone they loved abused in this way.

It isn't a matter of the photo lab 'invading your privacy'. They see all your pics anyway. These weren't your normal, everyday porn shots of willing models/friends/lovers. This was proof of someone performing an illegal act.

 

[Closet Desire]

It's one of those...

...damned if you do and damned if you don't situations. I can't argue with the outcome...just the method. It's one of those lines that aren't too clearly marked. I can only equate it to how people would feel if the government decided to attached a CCTV to everybody. That way they could monitor everyone's conduct and take action any time someone broke a law. Technically that should stop a lot of crimes.

I know that sounds ridiculous but I guess I'm saying that sometimes it hard to decide how far we should go in preventing crimes...how far do you go before rights are compromised.

I'm saying this from the perspective of someone who, in the process of walking to his office on the other side of town, will register on as many as 100 CCTVs and will never be out of sight of police or security personnel. As I drive down the road to take my daughter to gymnastics I will pass as many as six radar activated cameras which will take a photo if I exceed the speed limit or run a red light. The citation will come in the mail (no, I don't speed or run red lights with or without cameras).

Sometimes it feels a bit eerie and I'm not sure if I prefer this or the danger no surveillance would entail.

Still, what this guy did was represehensible. Makes for good discussions though...don't you think?

 

[BrainyBeauty]

You say potatoes and I say po-tah-toes!

CD, I think we agree for the most part.

You are comparing apples and oranges though. The lab tech acted on his own but he was performing in a fiduciary capacity for 'the people'. He was following the law as it applied within the context of his job duties.

It is a horse of a different color to make the leap to Big Brother following us around with CCTV 24/7. Funny thing is, we have something similar here too. A few years back they installed cameras on highways circling the city. For traffic watch. No one said a word. Later, the subject of funding for the purchase and placement of cameras in high-crime neighborhoods was loudly hailed as invasion of privacy.

I found it amusing as there was far more potential to catch lawbreakers (speeders) on the roads than there was in catching street corner drug transactions! Yet people were outraged that city officials were considering spying on citizens!

You make a good case for the erosion of personal freedoms and privacy. The world is changing. I don't like it either. I liked it much better when the only camera you had to worry about was the one your dad aimed at you as you stood squinting in the sun. Thank goodness the photo lab techs back then didn't report me for looking goofy as sin!

 

[Bs]

A few things in passing... I travel quite a bit and listen to talk radio (if only I could remember where) all the time..... anywho.. It was before the elections last fall because they were discussing one of the canidates for sheriff had posed a lady whom had died at a crime scene and taken several pictures of her... it had been some years before ... and people were calling into the radio station in defence of this guy because "he had'nt done it since and he did say he was sorry". This event sticks out in my mind because I can remember YELLING at the radio about what fools they all were, and Hell if got stopped maybe I could tell'm "i wuz reel sorrie und wund'nt dood it agan" and they would let me off the hook and maybe I could run for their Mayor or somthing...

Oh Well.... Heres another thought....

I have never been to China but it is my understanding that the children are encourged to spy on their parents in case they might plot against the goverment? You know things like keeping a few extra eggs around or stashing some carrots in the cellar.. for which the parents could be put to death.... Just dumb things I suppose but very meaningful the Chinese Goverment ..... What I'm getting at here is people if WE as a whole don't take a stand on losing our basic rights as guarenteed by the Constitution of the United States of America then by GOD lets all learn how to speak Chinese. The MORALITY POLICE (you know the pimply face 16 year old kid thats flunking math and works nights at the 1hr PhotoShop) that can take away OUR freedon of speech & liberty by accusation!

I hope that gives you somthing to think about because they (Our Elected Officials) are not about to take away ALL of our rights for no reason... nope they'll do them a little at time so the We the People will know that its for our own good.

and most folks will proably think this is ......

 

[Never]

Juspar Emvan:
"Yup, but the photo lab should not under any circumstances have been allowed to report it.

I've heard of similar things (breach of privacy) before and frankly they disgust me."

I don't see how this is considered a breach of privacy - the man took his photos to a place of business to have them developed. He knew that other people would see them in a public setting.
Not only that but what he did was highly illegal and immoral. If you came into a store and showed the cashiers pictures of dead people in sexual positions, would you not expect them to call the police?

Photo development services do not promise privacy or confidentiality - they never have. If they see something, which they believe to be illegal, why shouldn't they call the police?

Closet Desire, you've already said that your friend took photos of an erotic nature and that on the same roll of film he took photos of his naked daughters. I can't see that as anything but a huge error in judgment on his part. Despite the fact that his intentions were innocent, the lab technicians that reported it were only doing their job. If Laurel placed on this site a picture of a naked child, no matter what her intentions, the reaction would be the same.

As for the story about the woman not found guilty of child porn - if this is the same story which I am thinking of she used the pictures to reference sculpting she did of fairies and the like. As a result, she brought in a roll of film that was almost all of naked children.

Neither of these cases involved an invasion of privacy. None of them were simply adults creating erotic photos. All of them involved children and photos that could be viewed as being sexual in nature. Thousands of pictures are processed each day with kids running around half naked or naked and the developers don't blink an eye but if they do see something which might be illegal of course they're going to report it. It would be foolish of them not to.

 

[April]

Okay, enough bashing the people who work at the photo lab! WE are not all pimply faced teenagers, you know! *humph*

I tried to post to this subject a few hours ago, but the wonderful** AOL service crapped out on me.

Anyway, it takes some skill to work in a photo lab, and do it right. Not just any idiot can do it. My employer has a policy of not printing any pictures that contain sexualized nudity. For example: a child bathing in a bathtub would pass, whereas a pic taken of a naked adolescent girl (showing breasts) would not, and would be reported to management. What they (management) do after that, I don't know. It all depends on content and context, and some common sense from both parties is in order. If you have doubts about a pic, don't take it.

BB, to answer your question, a lot of photo studios, at least in this area, don't have their own lab, and bring their film to us. It costs a lot of money to set up your own lab with decent machines, and a lot of time to learn how to use them properly. And there are strict regulations concerning the disposal of hazardous chemicals. On the whole, it's easier to use a lab than to do it yourself.

 

[Closet Desire]

As you pointed out...

...photo labs have become quality places to have film processed and the people who run them, the good ones, have good training. Heck, I had a darkroom in my own house, but most of the time took it down the road.

I'll have to modify my view on a few things. You're right about the "expectation of privacy". One shouldn't really expect privacy if they take their film in to a film lab. If there's something illegal on the film then you get what you deserve.

As for error in judgement on my friend's part I should probably explain that sex isn't a dirty word here in the UK like it is in the US. Submitting posed nudes to a high street shop wouldn't normally raise an eyebrow (we weren't talking porn shots, genitalia, or sex...just nudes). What I found curious was that the shop probably wouldn't have pulled it for the nudes. They pulled it because he had photos of a 2 year and 4 year old girl on the same roll. I think it takes a pruient mind to link the two together...don't you?

Anyway, I gave my friend a digital camera for Christmas because I loved mine so much. I swore I would never own a digital myself. I have some great 35 mm SLRs but paid more for this Kodak DC 280 than I ever paid for a 35mm. What was I thinking? I have to say I've been dramatically impressed. And...no photo lab surveillance to worry about!