Nazi Persecution Of Homosexuals

[Queersetti]

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum has put up a very good section on their website, about the persecution of gays by the Third Reich.

Definitely worth checking out.

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/hsx/

 

[Raimondin]

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum has put up a very good section on their website, about the persecution of gays by the Third Reich.

Definitely worth checking out.

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/hsx/

Yes, about a year ago I saw and taped the HBO documentary Paragraph 175 . The old German penal code concerning homosexuality, which was used to justify the persecution of gay men during the war, although the code ignored lesbians because as women they could still bear children. I haven't quite read all of the link you provided, but it is long over due.
It's interesting and ironic to note that at the same time there were a lot of gay men within the Nazi hierarchy, as officers and as close aides to Hitler. Of course, most notably Rudolf Hesse and Rohm who was later murdered, or "ordered killed" by Hitler. There were others of course, which I can't remember at the moment.
I hope in time that this part of the Holocaust will also come to the fore. We have at best only heard one side of the story.

This memorial now will serve as a tribute and a testimony to the sufferage and persecution of homosexuals during this horrible time in history, and hopefully as a reminder of the persecution we are still enduring in this day and age.
I think I'm going to pull out the video Paragraph 175 and se it again.

 

[John Doe]

What most people don't know is that not all of the people gassed or otherwise killed in the POW, concentration and death camps were Jews. ^ millions of them were, while another 5 millions were homosexual, nonwhite and others who weren't "true Germans."

 

[milman]

Hess was too? Had'nt heard that, but Rohm is well known.

I saw a book a while back making the arguement that Hitler himself was too. Certainly would explain his odd relationships with women.

 

[BlueEyesInLevis]

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum has put up a very good section on their website, about the persecution of gays by the Third Reich.

Definitely worth checking out.

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/hsx/

According to some of your lib friends there was no holocaust.

But Im glad they added the section on the gay holocaust, it serves as a reminder that should NEVER be forgotten.

 

[BlueEyesInLevis]

What most people don't know is that not all of the people gassed or otherwise killed in the POW, concentration and death camps were Jews. ^ millions of them were, while another 5 millions were homosexual, nonwhite and others who weren't "true Germans."

Believe me Im not one to minimize or deny anything the nazis did in WWII but 5 million non jews in the concentration camps??? Share your source please.

 

[College_geek]

Believe me Im not one to minimize or deny anything the nazis did in WWII but 5 million non jews in the concentration camps??? Share your source please.

I think I read somewhere that it was about 6 million Jewish and about 1 million other, but I wouldn't be able to say where I read it...it was a few years ago.

 

[Queersetti]

It's hard to come up with any figures that come even close to being exact, because the chaotic conditions of war make it impossible to determine, in many cases, the cause of death, or who the actual perpetrators were. Millions of civilians died during the war and how many were murdered, how many were collatral combat casualties, and how many died from deprivation will never be known. And in some cases, Poland in particular, it is impossible to determine how many people were killed by the Germans, and how many were killed by the Russians. During the 1939 partition, at least 1 million Poles disappeared into the Soviet gulag.

What is clear is that at least 2 million Russian POWs were executed by the Nazis, as were at least a similar number of Polish, Russian, Yugoslavian and other civilians. In addition, most historians put the number of Roma (Gypsies) murdered at between 200,000-500,00, mentally diabled at about 250,000, and among the other groups targeted by the Nazis; gays, communists, trade unionists, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. the number is unknown, but is estimated to be at least 500,000.

The best estimate of Jewish victims is between 5.600,000-5,900,000.

 

[John Doe]

Believe me Im not one to minimize or deny anything the nazis did in WWII but 5 million non jews in the concentration camps??? Share your source please.

The Nazis.

They kept meticulous records of thier own atrocities, beleive it or not. They were quite proud of thier deeds.

 

[John Doe]

It's hard to come up with any figures that come even close to being exact, because the chaotic conditions of war make it impossible to determine, in many cases, the cause of death, or who the actual perpetrators were. Millions of civilians died during the war and how many were murdered, how many were collatral combat casualties, and how many died from deprivation will never be known. And in some cases, Poland in particular, it is impossible to determine how many people were killed by the Germans, and how many were killed by the Russians. During the 1939 partition, at least 1 million Poles disappeared into the Soviet gulag.

What is clear is that at least 2 million Russian POWs were executed by the Nazis, as were at least a similar number of Polish, Russian, Yugoslavian and other civilians. In addition, most historians put the number of Roma (Gypsies) murdered at between 200,000-500,00, mentally diabled at about 250,000, and among the other groups targeted by the Nazis; gays, communists, trade unionists, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. the number is unknown, but is estimated to be at least 500,000.

The best estimate of Jewish victims is between 5.600,000-5,900,000.

So at the least it's nearly 5 millions of non-Jews?

 

[Queersetti]

So at the least it's nearly 5 millions of non-Jews?

It is certainly in the range of 5-6 million, or possibly more. As I said, it's impossible to determine.

One difficulty is in how we define who was a victim of the Holocaust and who was a victim of the war. Thousands of civilians died in the terror bombing of Rotterdam, for example, or in the siege of Leningrad. Untold numbers were murdered in towns and villages all over Europe. Obviously, in the deepest sense, the distinction is meaningless, but it does cloud the issue when we try to discuss it with any exactitude.

 

[John Doe]

It is certainly in the range of 5-6 million, or possibly more. As I said, it's impossible to determine.

One difficulty is in how we define who was a victim of the Holocaust and who was a victim of the war. Thousands of civilians died in the terror bombing of Rotterdam, for example, or in the siege of Leningrad. Untold numbers were murdered in towns and villages all over Europe. Obviously, in the deepest sense, the distinction is meaningless, but it does cloud the issue when we try to discuss it with any exactitude.

Excellent point. I just thought I'd confirm my addition, as death math is rarely taught even in homeschooling.

So is "exactitude" really a word? It sounds like something President Bush would say.

 

[Queersetti]

Excellent point. I just thought I'd confirm my addition, as death math is rarely taught even in homeschooling.

So is "exactitude" really a word? It sounds like something President Bush would say.

It's a word. The Bush version is "exactitudination".

 

[John Doe]

It's a word. The Bush version is "exactitudination".

Nah, that actually includes most of the correct word, so "exactification" is probably what he'd say.

 

[Little Bird]

The Nazis.

They kept meticulous records of thier own atrocities, beleive it or not. They were quite proud of thier deeds.

Not realy: As much as germany changed in the last 200 Years and more, we never abandoned the habit to record and prtocol ANYTHING! Even after the fall of comunistic east-germany in 1990 anything could be proved because anything was documented. When the ruling chancelor knew he lost the elections in 1998, I think, he let destroy most of the documents of his office to prevent the new goverment of seeing things they should not see.
Now anyone knowes he was corrupt but nothing could be proved.

 

[John Doe]

Not realy: As much as germany changed in the last 200 Years and more, we never abandoned the habit to record and prtocol ANYTHING! Even after the fall of comunistic east-germany in 1990 anything could be proved because anything was documented. When the ruling chancelor knew he lost the elections in 1998, I think, he let destroy most of the documents of his office to prevent the new goverment of seeing things they should not see.
Now anyone knowes he was corrupt but nothing could be proved.

Well, regardless of whether or not they kept such meticulous records because of it, they were still proud of it.

 

[deezire1900]

I went to the Holocaust museum in DC. It was very stark, but emotional at the same time.