Native American Culture (or lack thereof)

[cloudy]

I was asked in a PM to post some info here, so I'm giving the best answer I can to assertions of sub-par intellect and lack of any culture.

I'm a member of the Cherokee tribe. The Deer clan, so I only listed the info on the Deer clan.

------------------------------------------------

On how "fairly" the Natives were treated:

Although the hunting and fishing rights issue is yet to be resolved through federal courts, the 1835 Treaty with the Comanche lists 8 tribes in regards to hunting and fishing, the Cherokee being one of them. This treaty grants us rights on the "great prairie west of the cross timbers, as far as the United States jurisdiction goes." This treeline stops near Wichita, Kansas.

Culture, in general:

Hospitality is a prominent feature in Cherokee character and that instinctive impulse to ‘eat when you are hungry” is scrupulously complied with by them, when among their own people, and anything can be found acceptable to a hungry stomach. To such a height is this custom carried, that in many towns an invitation is not a necessary preliminary to eating; whether the person be a stranger or a relative; and from a native, no comensation is required for eating, lodging, and provender for beasts.

The Cherokee society is historically a matrilineal society; meaning clanship is attained through the mother. Prior to Oklahoma statehood, the women were considered the Head of Household, with the home and children belonging to her should she separate from a husband. There are seven clans in Cherokee Society: A-ni-gi-lo-hi (Long Hair), A-ni-sa-ho-ni (Blue), A-ni-wa-ya (Wolf), A-ni-go-te-ge-wi (Wild Potato), A-ni-a-wi (Deer), A-ni-tsi-s-qua (Bird), A-ni-wo-di (Paint). The knowledge of a person's clan is important for many reasons; historically, and still today among Cherokee traditionalists, it is forbidden to marry within your clan. Clan members are considered brother and sisters. In addition, when seeking spiritual guidance and Indian doctoring, it is necessary to name your clan. Seating at ceremonial stomp dances is by clan, as well.

There are no natural boundaries to their clans – the subjects of different clans being mingled. Those of the same clan are considered as belonging to the same family. In fact this relationship seems to be as binding as the ties of consanguinity. An Indian can tell you without hesitating what degree of relationship exists between himself and any other individual of the same clan you may see proper to point out. A man and woman of the same clan are not allowed to become man and wife. This appearance of ancient custom is yet prevalent to some extent, and the disregard of it disgusting in the eyes of many.

Members of the Deer Clan were historically known as fast runners and hunters. Even though they hunted game for subsistence, they respected and cared for the animals while they were living amongst them. They were also known as messengers on an earthly level, delivering messenges from village to village, or person to person. At some Cherokee ceremonial grounds, the Deer arbor is to the left of the Wild Potato arbor.

The Stomp Dance (which some of you may have seen - it's widely performed):

A firekeeper and his assistant begins early dawn starting the official sacred fire. He begins with small slivers of wood, inner most part of an oak tree called the sponge, flint and some rock to trigger a spark.

Sunrise: The men sit around talking about political issues and the women prepare a meal for the day which consists of traditional and modern food.

Later in the afternoon: Sermons are held in the Cherokee language. The sermon includes telling all to love all mankind.

After the sermon, a stickball game is played--an ancient Cherokee tradition that resembles the American La Crosse.

Sundown: Sermons continue. Each clan member takes turn by taking seven puffs of the old ceremonial pipe.

The Chief, medicine men, and elders hold a meeting then they call for the first dance. A second call is made. The first dance is by invitation only, tribal elders, elders, medicine men and clan heads.

The members gather to visit, feast and dance far into the night. It is a holy place to worship Unetlanv (the Creator, or God). No littering, liquor and rowdy behavior. Rules are written in the Cherokee language and posted on a board hung up for the public. The dance participants include a leader, assistants and one or more "shell-shakers" who wear leg rattles traditionally made out of turtle shells filled with pebbles but today some use cans filled with pebbles to provide rhythmic accompaniment while they dance around the fire. The ceremonial observance involves sacrifices made by the ceremonial leaders, prayers, taking medicine and going to water or river for ritual cleansing, and smoking of the pipe.

The Keetoowah's bible is not written on paper. The words are woven into seven wampum belts which are shown only in rare occasions. The belts are very old, and are made of pearls and shell beads, woven with seaweed fibers from the Gulf of Mexico. The history behind the belt is that many years ago, the tribe was preparing to go on to war with another tribe, when the medicine men foresaw which would survive, and cut the original wampum belt into seven pieces, giving one to each warrior. After the war, the belts were scattered, some being hidden and disappearing, the last one was recovered by Redbird Smith around 80 years ago.

There are seven arbors encircling the sacred fire. Each arbor represents the seven clans. Wolf (a-ni-wa-ya), Wild Potato (a-ni-go-ta-ge-wi) also known as the Bear Clan, Paint (a-ni-wo-di), Bird Clan (a-ni-tsi-ss-gwa), Long Hair (a-ni-gi-lo-hi) also known as Twister or Wind then the Blind Savannah as known as Blue (a-ni-sa-ho-ni).

The fire is very sacred to traditional Cherokees. It is built at the bottom of a pit below the ground, and burns constantly.

Today, there are over 200,000 Cherokee tribal members. Although many have chosen to worship through other religious denominations (Indian Baptist, Methodist, etc.), many continue to worship at regular Stomp Dances and are members of one of the several Grounds in Cherokee Nation.

 

[oggbashan]

Who taught the white man how to live in 'The Great American Wilderness'?


Og

 

[neonlyte]

Cloudy,
Interesting information, many thanks.

Can I ask, do you know of any tribal traditions linking bread and fertility or pregnancy. I know of some with Southern US communities, just wondering if such traditions were more widespread.

If anyone else knows anything on this subject I would welcome the information.

NL

 

[ABSTRUSE]

cloudy, thank you for that! It is truly wonderful and enlightening.
I never knew there were so many clans. Nor did I know of the wampum belts.
It must have been great to share stories with your family about the family history and traditions.
Are the Cherokee's spread througout the states or are they located in a certain section of the country?

~A~enthralled.

 

[cloudy]

cloudy, thank you for that! It is truly wonderful and enlightening.
I never knew there were so many clans. Nor did I know of the wampum belts.
It must have been great to share stories with your family about the family history and traditions.
Are the Cherokee's spread througout the states or are they located in a certain section of the country?

~A~enthralled.

The Cherokee traditionally lived in the southeastern states, not including most of Florida - that "belonged" to the Seminoles, among others. They were relocated along the Trail of Tears, and most were moved into Oklahoma, where most of the reservations are. Some stayed and were basically assimilated into white culture and families, as my grandmother was, and others fought being "relocated," and died for it.

Now, we're everywhere.

 

[cloudy]

The Trail of Tears:

Migration from the original Cherokee Nation began in the early 1800’s as Cherokees, wary of white encroachment, moved west and settled in other areas of the country. White resentment of the Cherokees had been building and reached a pinnacle after gold was discovered in Georgia, and immediately following the passage of the Cherokee Nation constitution, and establishment of a Cherokee Supreme Court. Possessed with ‘gold fever,’ and a thirst for expansion, the white communities turned on their Cherokee neighbors and the U.S. government decided it was time for the Cherokees to leave behind their farms, their land and their homes.

A group known as the Old Settlers had moved in 1817 to lands given them in Arkansas where again they established a government and a peaceful way of life. Later, they too, were forced into Indian Territory.

President Andrew Jackson, whose command and life was saved due to 500 Cherokee allies at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend in 1814, unbelievably authorized the Indian Removal Act of 1830. In following the recommendation of President James Monroe in his final address to Congress in 1825, Jackson sanctioned an attitude that had persisted for many years among many white immigrants. Even Thomas Jefferson, who often cited the Great Law of Peace of the Iroquois Confederacy as the model for the U.S. Constitution, supported Indian Removal as early as 1802.

The displacement of Native People was not wanting for eloquent opposition. Senators Daniel Webster and Henry Clay spoke out against removal. Reverend Samuel Worcester, missionary to the Cherokees, challenged Georgia’s attempt to estinguish Indian title to land in the state, winning the case before the Supreme Court.

Worcester vs. Georgia, 1832, and Cherokee Nation vs. Georgia, 1831, are considered the two most influential decisions in Indian law. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled for Georgia in the 1831 case, but in Worcester vs. Georgia, the court affirmed Cherokee sovereignty.President Andrew Jackson defied the decision of the court and ordered the removal, an act of defiance that established the U.S. government’s precedent for the removal of many Native Americans from the ancestral homelands.

The U.S. government used the Treaty of New Echota in 1835 to justify the removal. The treaty, illegally signed by about 100 Cherokees known as the Treaty Party, relinquished all lands east of the Mississippi River in exchange for land in Indian Territory and the promise of money, livestock, various provisions and tools, and other benefits.

When the pro-removal Cherokee leaders signed the Treaty of New Echota, they also signed their own death warrants. The Cherokee Naiton Council earlier had passed a law that called for the death penalty for anyone who agreed to give up tribal land. The signing and the removal led to better factionalism and the deaths of most of the Treaty Part leaders once in Indian Territory.

Opposition to the removal was led by Chief John Ross, a mixed-blood of Scottish and one-eighth Cherokee descent. The Ross party and most Cherokees opposed the New Echota Treaty, but Georgia and the U.S. government prevailed and used it as justification to force almost all of the 17,000 Cherokees from their southeastern homeland.

Under orders from President Jackson and in defiance of the U.S. Supreme Court, the U.S. Army began enforcement of the Removal Act. More than 3,000 Cherokees were rounded up in the summer of 1838 and loaded onto boats that traveled the Tennessee, Ohio, Mississippi and Arkansas Rivers into Indian Territory. Many were held in prison camps awaiting their fate.

An estimated 4,000 died from hunger, exposure and disease. The journey became an eternal memory as the "trail where they cried" for the Cherokees and other removed tribes. Today, it is remembered as the "Trail of Tears." The Oklahoma Chapter of the Trail of Tears Association has begun the task of marking the graves of Trail survivors with bronze memorials.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

In my area we are surrounded by Indian names, Lackawanna, Susquehanna, Conshohocken, etc. I doubt many people here know much of the background of these indians.
We have however come across artifacts and settlements. Our museum aquired a dugout canoe a few years back, it was still lying in the river and is now being preserved.
I will have to research some of this and see what I can find.

 

[cloudy]

I believe the tribe up your way is the Iroquois.

Strangely enough, the Cherokee are linked with the Iroquois. Some believe the tribe migrated south.

We still call the Iroquois "cousins."

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I believe the tribe up your way is the Iroquois.

Strangely enough, the Cherokee are linked with the Iroquois. Some believe the tribe migrated south.

We still call the Iroquois "cousins."

Thank you Cloudy

 

[Honey123]

Cloudy, that is extremely interesting and fascinating.

I have a question...do you practice any of your native traditions still within your family?

I read in one of the threads that you were invited to Canada and just wondered if you still kept in contact with members of your tribe or clan?

I am sorry if my question seems silly to you, but I do find this interesting.

I come from an Italian family and we have certain traditions, but I think that what you have within your "family" is different. Yes, we sit around and have stories told to us about the "olden" days and what they did in Italy - we sing, we dance - but what you are part of is fascinating.

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Oniwa~

Oniwa~

My friend...

The infestation of breed of greed took (stole)
raped the land they inhabited and corraled
what they beleived to be savages. Century
later they find that the best two cultures in
this world in the last two centurys have been
the way of life of the American Indian and the
Japanesse, both which the The white man has
attacked in many ways other than battle. As with
the wipeing out of many tribes from small pox
as well as depletion of their food supply.

This travesty...I could write a book on..well
there are several thousand out now. But I am
glad to see this thread.

My mother was raised on a reservation in New
mexico, the stories she tells are awesome in
reguards to how life should be lived. She tells
of how she would run for cover when the herds
of horses run by and there wasn't fences back then
she didn't wear clothes half the time cause they
thought nothing about it from a 6 year old.
The family pulled together and everyone shared in
the chores even at 8 years old she cooked.

I love shareing these beleifs and ways of life.
and am so glad to see that some still know of
the old ways. Makes my heart soar...

My Indian name I don't use like I use to and should
...Blue Hawk Soaring...

Here is a story I wrote and it is the first two chapters
in a novel I'm writing and by far my best...in story
as well as votes and comments...hope you will
take the time and enjoy it as much as I enjoyed
writing it...well I am still writing it...

Hawk and a Dove

Hawk and a Dove (2)

also a little more on the erotic side...but one of
my favorite writes about an Indians Tinket
there are 5 chapters to it if ya like the first
you can find the other 4 in my link...

Dream Catcher Dreams

I hope you enjoy them...it comes from the heart
the Indian in me is only half...but I am proud of
every drop of blood that is from a tribe that knew
and knows how to live in harmony with mother earth

I am known to be one of the best Hunters, trackers
and guides in this area...the county sherrifs dept.
I not only teach defense to calls me when a child or
person is lost in the woods...I am a tracker and I have
been called upon several times in the last 10 years to
track escape convicts from the local prison, I have found
every single one that entered the woods...but those
that took a car...well..laughs...hehehehe

my favorite saying is...

man becomes farther from mother earth the farther
his feet are from the soil. from a sole on a shoe to
a skyscraper.

I smiled when I found this jewel of a thread ...
thanks cloudy....

Oniwa~

 

[cloudy]

Cloudy, that is extremely interesting and fascinating.

I have a question...do you practice any of your native traditions still within your family?

I read in one of the threads that you were invited to Canada and just wondered if you still kept in contact with members of your tribe or clan?


I am sorry if my question seems silly to you, but I do find this interesting.

I come from an Italian family and we have certain traditions, but I think that what you have within your "family" is different. Yes, we sit around and have stories told to us about the "olden" days and what they did in Italy - we sing, we dance - but what you are part of is fascinating.

Not so much within my family, not anymore. Some members of my family would rather not have that "embarassing" chapter of our history brought to light. I still practice many of them.

I was invited to Canada for the five nations powwow held up there in August. I have a sweetie that's Ojibwe, and that's why I got invited. Yes, I go to powwows and gatherings as often as I can. They're interesting and fun even for those not of native descent. The tradition of storytelling is my favorite, and storytellers are revered and have very high status.

Just as this culture is fascinating to you, yours is to me.

 

[cloudy]

Re: Oniwa~

Oniwa~

My friend...

The infestation of breed of greed took (stole)
raped the land they inhabited and corraled
what they beleived to be savages. Century
later they find that the best two cultures in
this world in the last two centurys have been
the way of life of the American Indian and the
Japanesse, both which the The white man has
attacked in many ways other than battle. As with
the wipeing out of many tribes from small pox
as well as depletion of their food supply.

This travesty...I could write a book on..well
there are several thousand out now. But I am
glad to see this thread.

My mother was raised on a reservation in New
mexico, the stories she tells are awesome in
reguards to how life should be lived. She tells
of how she would run for cover when the herds
of horses run by and there wasn't fences back then
she didn't wear clothes half the time cause they
thought nothing about it from a 6 year old.
The family pulled together and everyone shared in
the chores even at 8 years old she cooked.

I love shareing these beleifs and ways of life.
and am so glad to see that some still know of
the old ways. Makes my heart soar...

My Indian name I don't use like I use to and should
...Blue Hawk Soaring...

Here is a story I wrote and it is the first two chapters
in a novel I'm writing and by far my best...in story
as well as votes and comments...hope you will
take the time and enjoy it as much as I enjoyed
writing it...well I am still writing it...

Hawk and a Dove

Hawk and a Dove (2)

also a little more on the erotic side...but one of
my favorite writes about an Indians Tinket
there are 5 chapters to it if ya like the first
you can find the other 4 in my link...

Dream Catcher Dreams

I hope you enjoy them...it comes from the heart
the Indian in me is only half...but I am proud of
every drop of blood that is from a tribe that knew
and knows how to live in harmony with mother earth

I am known to be one of the best Hunters, trackers
and guides in this area...the county sherrifs dept.
I not only teach defense to calls me when a child or
person is lost in the woods...I am a tracker and I have
been called upon several times in the last 10 years to
track escape convicts from the local prison, I have found
every single one that entered the woods...but those
that took a car...well..laughs...hehehehe

my favorite saying is...

man becomes farther from mother earth the farther
his feet are from the soil. from a sole on a shoe to
a skyscraper.

I smiled when I found this jewel of a thread ...
thanks cloudy....

Oniwa~

Osiyo, my friend!

You're very welcome. I posted it because several people had asked and I will pass on all that I know.

Would love to see some of your tribes culture and history here!



Usti Ulogidv
(Little Cloud)

 

[CharleyH]

Absolutely enlightening - insightful, Cloudy.

Some questions come to mind, if you can answer.

First, here in Canada the Metis. Is there a group in the States that is in a similar political space? Are there Metis, per se, in the U.S.? I don't think the Metis are considered part of the First Nations . . . yet, although if memory serves me, I do believe some effort was being made to change this. Will the Metis be included when you travel to Canada? Are the Metis considered a Nation?

Second, you mentioned on another thread, the tribe being at your back. Here, on this thread, you mention the Cherokee as being matrilineal. I am curious about the political order. Did this also include matriarchal, and what positions can women currently take within a tribe? For example, and only used as analogy: despite changing traditions women cannot become priests in the Roman Catholic tradition. Can women today achieve the status of Chief for example? This may seem a silly question, but I am curious.

 

[cloudy]

Charley, I don't think there's a group similar to the Metis here in the states. Each tribes rules are different, but the Cherokee allow tribal membership if you are at least 1/8 Cherokee. I'm not sure if they are members of the Five Nations, but I don't think so. I can find out, though.

Women aren't chiefs, however as in any matrilineal culture, the women were a very strong influence. Marriages, in particular, were arranged through the women and had to be approved.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Sequoyah's Talking Leaves

Realizing a key to development of the Cherokee Nation was a written language, Sequoyah began work on a graphic representation of the Cherokee language. The syllabary, officially listed as being completed in 1821, took 12 years to create. Sequoyah came up with the idea of "Talking Leaves" when he visited Chief Charles Hicks, who showed him how to write his name so he could sign his work like American silversmiths had begun to do.

Initially, Sequoyah tried pictographs, but soon discovered that the number of symbols in the Cherokee language would be in the thousands. Then he began to create symbols for each syllable the Cherokees use. This was the essential step in creating the syllabary. Sequoyah's written language was not the first example of the concept. A Japanese syllabary was developed from 5th century A. D. Chinese ideographic writing. The concept of an alphabet, which denotes sounds instead of syllables, originated in Phoenicia.




Sequoyah
His work was interupted by the Creek War of 1813-1814, when he joined a Cherokee force under the leadership of The Ridge. After the war, Major Ridge would be called on as leader of the Lighthorse Patrol to punish to Sequoyah for trying to create the syllabary. The leaders of the tribe felt that this written language was the work of the devil, and to force him to stop they ordered Ridge to remove the tops of his fingers.

Although he lacked a formal education he spoke several languages fluently. Returning to the Lower Towns, he continued his work while he was caught up in the Creek Path Conspiracy. His syllabary originally contained 115 characters, but he reduced this number to 83 before its first publication. Later, three additional sounds were added bringing the number up to 86.

Disenchanted with the movement towards nationalism, Sequoyah left Georgia in 1821 and moved to Arkansas, arriving in 1822. He was living here when the syllabary was introduced to the Cherokee Nation. In a few short years one man had acheived a means of communication that had taken other civilizations thousands of years to accomplish.

Use of the language spread quickly through the Chreokee Nation. Anyone who could speak the Cherokee language could learn to read or write in two weeks. Thousands of Cherokee began to use Sequoyah's invention on a daily basis and the syllabary gave the nation the ability to create the first American Indian newspaper, The Cherokee Phoenix

The name "Talking Leaves" was satirical of whites. The Cherokee felt that white man's words dried up and blew away like leaves when the words no longer suited the whites.

 

[cloudy]

And they were right, at the time.

Thank you, Abs.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Charley, I don't think there's a group similar to the Metis here in the states. Each tribes rules are different, but the Cherokee allow tribal membership if you are at least 1/8 Cherokee. I'm not sure if they are members of the Five Nations, but I don't think so. I can find out, though.

Women aren't chiefs, however as in any matrilineal culture, the women were a very strong influence. Marriages, in particular, were arranged through the women and had to be approved.

I'm trying to remember if it was the Algonquin or Lenilenapes where the women of the tribe chose the chief. I'm leaning toward the Algonquins as they were a patriarchal tribe.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Trail of Tears

The Legend of the Cherokee Rose.

No better symbol exists of the pain and suffering of the Trail Where They Cried than the Cherokee Rose(pictured at top of page). The mothers of the Cherokee grieved so much that the chiefs prayed for a sign to lift the mother's spirits and give them strength to care for their children. From that day forward, a beautiful new flower, a rose, grew wherever a mother's tear fell to the ground. The rose is white, for the mother's tears. It has a gold center, for the gold taken from the Cherokee lands, and seven leaves on each stem that represent the seven Cherokee clans that made the journey. To this day, the Cherokee Rose prospers along the route of the "Trail of Tears". The Cherokee Rose is now the official flower of the State of Georgia.



The Neverending Trail

by Abe "Del" Jones


We whites honor the "Hermitage"
And the man who once lived there -
But, that leader of our Nation
Was cruel, unjust, unfair -

He ordered the removal
Of the Cherokee from their land
And forced them on a trek
That the Devil must have planned -

One thousand miles of misery -
Of pain and suffering -
Because greed of the white man
Could not even wait till spring -

We should bow our heads in shame
Even unto this day
About "The Trail Of Tears"
And those who died along the way.

It was October, eighteen thirty-eight
When seven thousand troops in blue
Began the story of the "Trail"
Which, so sadly, is so true -

Jackson ordered General Scott
To rout the Indian from their home -
The "Center Of The World" they loved -
The only one they'd known -

The Braves working in the fields
Arrested, placed in a stockade -
Women and children dragged from home
In the bluecoats shameful raid -

Some were prodded with bayonets
When, they were deemed to move too slow
To where the Sky was their blanket
And the cold Earth, their pillow -

In one home a Babe had died
Sometime in the night before -
And women mourning, planning burial
Were cruelly herded out the door -

In another, a frail Mother -
Papoose on back and two in tow
Was told she must leave her home
Was told that she must go -

She uttered a quiet prayer -
Told the old family dog good-bye -
Then, her broken heart gave out
And she sank slowly down to die -

Chief Junaluska witnessed this -
Tears streaming down his face -
Said if he could have known this
It would have never taken place -

For, at the battle of Horse Shoe
With five hundred Warriors, his best -
Helped Andrew Jackson win that battle
And lay thirty-three Braves to rest -

And the Chief drove his tomahawk
Through a Creek Warrior's head
Who was about to kill Jackson -
But whose life was saved, instead -

Chief John Ross knew this story
And once sent Junaluska to plead -
Thinking Jackson would listen to
This Chief who did that deed -

But, Jackson was cold, indifferent
To the one he owed his life to
Said, "The Cherokee's fate is sealed -
There's nothing, I can do."

Washington, D.C. had decreed
They must be moved Westward -
And all their pleas and protests
To this day still go unheard.

On November, the seventeenth
Old Man Winter reared his head -
And freezing cold, sleet and snow
Littered that trail with the dead

On one night, at least twenty-two
Were released from their torment
To join that Great Spirit in the Sky
Where all good souls are sent -

Many humane, heroic stories
Were written 'long the way -
A monument, for one of them -
Still stands until this day -

It seems one noble woman
It was Chief Ross' wife -
Gave her blanket to a sick child
And in so doing, gave her life -

She is buried in an unmarked grave -
Dug shallow near the "Trail" -
Just one more tragic ending
In this tragic, shameful tale -

Mother Nature showed no mercy
Till they reached the end of the line
When that fateful journey ended
On March twenty-sixth, eighteen thirty-nine.

Each mile of this infamous "Trail"
Marks the graves of four who died -
Four thousand poor souls in all
Marks the shame we try to hide -

You still can hear them crying
Along "The Trail Of Tears"
If you listen with your heart
And not with just your ears.

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Tribe~

Though I am from the Shoshoni tribe, Americans have
placed the name of "Commanche" on the Shoshoni, Ute
and Paiute tribes. Believing they all come from the same
tribe at one time and split up into 12 different tribes over
the last 500 years. The "commanche" reservations hold
many different tribes of New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas
as well as Mexico.

The Commanche were Nomads and traveled along the
Plains with the Buffalo and the Shoshoni were more
of a tribe that located to three different locations a
year. Winter, Spring and Summer. They were more
passive than the Commanche yet all were brotheren.
The Ute and Paiute were even more nomadic for the
territory they covered was more barren and need to
move around more to survive and hunting and fishing
in one spot proved to be hard as far as depletion of
game.

The war on the Commanches came from Americans
need for a peaceful frontier in order to attract settlers.
The Commanche were very territorial and didn't take
prisoners if ya know what I mean. So the Government
had them almost all wiped out but for a few hundred
that they shipped to Alabama and florida reservations.
They later made another reservation in Texas to place
a few of the last captured Indians in called the Choshatta
reservation.

The Commanche went into Mexico and survived quite
well for awhile inter breeding with the Hispanic and
the Shoshoni stayed mostly in New Mexico. Were My
Mother and Grandmother were out of Hobbs New Mexico

They (the tribe) still make Indian Jewelry and
tell of the Stories of the old ways but most have
homes like you and I now...lol as is most Indian
cultures now a days. Some of the best stories
they told me are in those stories I linked in the
other post...or in my signature.

I had a hard time Understanding the differences of the
Commanche and the Shoshoni, but the main difference
is their nomadic and war like patterns. Other than that
they speak almost the same language, but more like
english from the north and then a southern drawl.

just for your thread I'll post this Indian love story:

The indians tell a tale of the sun and how
his journey every day is to across the skies
in search for a lake of magical powers..
this lake will grant any wish if you drink of it....
now the suns wish is that he can find his love
that comes to him in the darkest night of the month
she'll slide beside him ..and love him like no other.
....his heart waits anxiously every month for her sweet loveing......but disturbs him
that he knows her not.....
but after many years of this romance
he figures out a plan......and on her next
visit he will try it..so when the darkest night
of the month came and she slid next to him
and loved him like no other..
he put his hand in the dying fires ambers and filled
his fingers with ash....and brushed his loves face
as they made love.....
the next morning she was gone...
this shy one had left him again so the sun got up
and went out into his day and searched for the lake as
well as his love........
the day was long and he found neither
his heart sank as he fell to the other
side of the earth.....
then in the distant twilight he caught a
glimps of moon..a lovely women who kept to
herself and rarely seen by sun...
but as he fell to the other side...
he spotted the smudge marks on moons face
as he caught his last glimpse of her as night took over..
well sun then knew who his love was....
and cursed that they lived so far away from each other
...he was storming around for days....
realizing he will .......never to be together,,,,,,
unless he looks for the magical lake .........
so that he can drink from it and ask for his
wish to be with moon always......
and not just once a month when you see them both
in the twilight..........................
and if you look real good she still
wears the smudge marks as a
reminder that she belongs to sun....

Have a great day...and night...

 

[cloudy]

A beautiful story. Thank you.

 

[Guest]

Wonderful thread, thanks Cloudy!

Thanks also to MET and Abs, great extras.

Lou

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I'm learning so much!!!!!!

 

[cloudy]

If you would like to hear a Cherokee storyteller, go here.

There are two groups of stories told by the Cherokee. First, there are the sacred stories. These stories are the serious type of stories which tell about why the Cherokee came to have certain healings, songs and that sort of thing. The second type of stories are the small animal stories. These stories tell why a certain animal looks the way they do, or act they way they do. In the stories, the animals are much larger than they are now and they could speak. It is taught to the Cherokee that in the beginning, man had the ability to speak with the animals. We spoke the same language. But, man abused their privilege by taking too much and becoming greedy. Therefore, man lost their ability to speak with the animals.

Here's one:

In the beginning of the world, ga lv la di e hi created First Man and First Woman. Together they built a lodge at the edge of a dense forest. They were very happy together; but like all humans do at times, they began to argue.

Finally First Woman became so angry she said she was leaving and never coming back. At that moment First Man really didn't care. First Woman started walking eastward down the path through the forest. She never looked back.

As the day grew later, First Man began to worry. At last he started down the same path in search of his wife. The Sun looked down on First Man and took pity on him. The Sun asked First Man if he was still angry with First Woman. First Man said he was not angry any more. The Sun asked if he would like to have First Woman back. Fist Man readily agreed he did.

The Sun found First Woman still walking down the path toward the East. So to entice her to stop, the Sun caused to grow beneath her feet lovely blueberries. The blueberries were large and ripe. First Woman paid no attention but kept walking down the path toward the East.

Further down the path the Sun caused to grow some luscious blackberries. The berries were very black and plump. First Woman looked neither left nor right but kept walking down the path toward the East.

At last the Sun caused to grow a plant that had never grown on the earth before. The plant covered the ground in front of First Woman. Suddenly she became aware of a fragrance she had never known. Stopping she looked down at her feet. Growing in the path was a plant with shiny green leaves, lovely white flowers with the largest most luscious red berries she had ever seen. First Woman stopped to pick one. Hmmm…she had never tasted anything quite like it! It was so sweet.

As First Woman ate the berry, the anger she felt began to fade away. She thought again of her husband and how they had parted in anger. She missed him and wanted to return home.

First Woman began to gather some of the berries. When she had all she could carry, she turned toward the West and started back down the path. Soon she met First Man. Together they shared the berries, and then hand in hand, they walked back to their lodge.

The Cherokee word for strawberry is ani. The rich bottomlands of the old Cherokee country were noted for their abundance of strawberries and other wild fruits. Even today, strawberries are often kept in Cherokee homes. They remind us not to argue and are a symbol of good luck.

 

[oggbashan]

When Og was young (in this present incarnation) we used to play Cowboys and Indians.

Being an Indian was far more enjoyable. We made wigwams, tomahawks, thunder-roarers, spears, bows and arrows, chanted great chunks of 'Hiawatha' round a camp fire, stalked wild game, prayed to Manitou...

Cowboys just made loud noises with cap guns.

Who were civilised?

Og