Nadler Has No legislative Right To Trump's Taxes

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Prof Triggernometry
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Congress is not a criminal investigative entity. They have oversight authority. They can investigate wrongdoing in government in order to create legislative solutions for the future. They do not have the power to issue what amounts to "general Warrants" or in the language of the Founders "writs of assistance," to investigate political opponents.

For instance, the law that Jerry Nadler is using to demand all tax returns for the last ten years of Donald Trump, all business communications between his businesses and their banks, etc, etc., is an illegal abuse of authority. And will be found so by the courts if it arrives at the SCOTUS.

Congressional statutory authority to oversee and request tax returns was a safeguard designed to protect taxpayers from the "IRS." To assure they were not being targeted by the government because of the class, race, gender, or religion. It was not a tool of investigation to be used like a general warrant against any taxpayer in order to find out if he had committed a crime at some point in his life that could be used against him politically today. The actions of the House are not dissimilar to the kind of "general warrants" issued by King George that Americans rebelled against and that prompted James Madison to pen the Fourth Amendment.

The U.S. Supreme Court noted in Payton v. New York, that “indiscriminate searches and seizures conducted under the authority of ‘general warrants’
were the immediate evils that motivated the framing and adoption of the Fourth Amendment.” Payton v New York 445 U.S. 573, 583 (1980).

The scope of the Fourth Amendment was described by the SCOTUS as a “determination . . . that the people of this new Nation should forever ‘be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects’ from intrusion and seizure by officers acing under the unbridled authority of a general warrant.”25 Stanford v. Texas :: 379 U.S. 476 (1965)

The president of the United States is first and foremost a citizen of the United States with every constitutional protection any other citizen has. Nadler and the Democrats should take a breath and understand that simple fact.
 
Mnuchin has no right to deny Congress’ demand.

Lesson for you. The President is the unitary head of the the Executive branch of government. All authority exercised by the officers of Executive Branch flows from his Article II authority. He is an institution of government separate but equal to the Congress with plenary powers of his own that cannot be altered or abrogated by legislative intent or act. Because of this there is something called separation of powers. So when the Secretary of Treasury denies Congress the President's tax returns he is acting as an agent of the President with powers that flow from the President. Congress has no right to the years of the President's taxes and personal communications between him and his banks. The SCOTUS will slap them down if they try and involve the courts.
 
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He is an institution of government separate but equal to the Congress

Equal being the keyword there. Don't forget that Congress can impeach him for not providing his tax returns if they believe he's hiding something in them.

I'm sure you remember that you right wingers were super jones about hearing Bill's sexy time stories that you love touting the fact that a sitting president can testify in a civil trial.
 
Equal being the keyword there. Don't forget that Congress can impeach him for not providing his tax returns if they believe he's hiding something in them.

I'm sure you remember that you right wingers were super jones about hearing Bill's sexy time stories that you love touting the fact that a sitting president can testify in a civil trial.




So Dan; can you describe to me how congress will win an impeachment battle, just curious?
 
Equal being the keyword there. Don't forget that Congress can impeach him for not providing his tax returns if they believe he's hiding something in them.

I'm sure you remember that you right wingers were super jones about hearing Bill's sexy time stories that you love touting the fact that a sitting president can testify in a civil trial.

They can't impeach him for the reason you state. If they do they will be abusing their power and it will be DOA in the Senate. Read my first post for a lesson in the actual law.

Remember what Bill Clinton was impeached for and it had nothing to do with sexy time stories. He was charged with 11 actual felonies under federal law.
 
Nadler is not the Chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, and so does not have the right to demand the tax returns, the Ways and Means Committee Chair does however and Mnuchin should have been arrested last week!

Neal Issues Subpoenas to Treasury Secretary and IRS Commissioner

May 10, 2019
Press Release

WASHINGTON, DC – Today, Ways & Means Committee Chairman Richard E. Neal (D-MA) released the following statement after issuing subpoenas to Department of Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and Internal Revenue Service (IRS) Commissioner Charles Rettig for six years of the President’s personal and business tax returns:

“Last month, the Ways and Means Committee began an investigation into the mandatory audit program at the IRS in an effort to assess the extent to which the IRS audits and enforces the federal tax laws against a sitting President and to determine if those audits need to be codified into federal law. As part of that inquiry, on April 3, I requested six years of the President’s personal and business tax returns, pursuant to my authority under section 6103(f) of the IRS Code. I believed then, as I do now, that reviewing the requested documents is a necessary piece of the committee’s work.

So your argument is completely stupid!:D
 
So Dan; can you describe to me how congress will win an impeachment battle, just curious?

Reread the sentence below. Show me where the word win appears.

Congress can impeach him


They can't impeach him for the reason you state.

Sure they can. Why can't they? Impeachment is a political process not a legal one. There doesn't have to be an actual crime. Trying to collude with the Russians, whether successful or not, would in my opinion be grounds for an impeachment.

Remember what Bill Clinton was impeached for and it had nothing to do with sexy time stories.

Yes, it having an affair with a consenting adult. Read the articles of impeachment. The word sex appears over 500 times. The alleged reason (perjury) about one hundred times less.

He was charged with 11 actual felonies under federal law.

He was charged with one count of obstruction of justice and one count of perjury. One and one makes two. Not eleven. Did you fail first grade math?

By contrast Trump, according the parts of the Muller report we've seen, found 11 "key events" that could lead to an obstruction charge.

So let's see. You've failed first grade math, second grade reading, and current events. Your mom is going to be super pissed seeing all those Fs.
 
Reread the sentence below. Show me where the word win appears.






Sure they can. Why can't they? Impeachment is a political process not a legal one. There doesn't have to be an actual crime. Trying to collude with the Russians, whether successful or not, would in my opinion be grounds for an impeachment.



Yes, it having an affair with a consenting adult. Read the articles of impeachment. The word sex appears over 500 times. The alleged reason (perjury) about one hundred times less.



He was charged with one count of obstruction of justice and one count of perjury. One and one makes two. Not eleven. Did you fail first grade math?

By contrast Trump, according the parts of the Muller report we've seen, found 11 "key events" that could lead to an obstruction charge.

So let's see. You've failed first grade math, second grade reading, and current events. Your mom is going to be super pissed seeing all those Fs.




Well Dan, to be precise, the house of representatives can impeach, but why? If you can't win.

One count of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice is all it takes.

The Mueller case is closed. Here's some math for you: 11x0=0
 
Well Dan, to be precise, the house of representatives can impeach, but why? If you can't win.

The Republicans knew they couldn't win when they impeached Clinton but did it anyway.

There's lots of reasons why the Democrats should impeach Trump but the main argument is that he obstructed justice and instructed his cronies to lie to Congress. That simple.
 
The Republicans knew they couldn't win when they impeached Clinton but did it anyway.

There's lots of reasons why the Democrats should impeach Trump but the main argument is that he obstructed justice and instructed his cronies to lie to Congress. That simple.




An argument is not fact. One more time, the Muller report was a criminal investigation, Mueller could not conclude a prosecutable crime of obstruction of justice. Case closed.

Give me one solid reason that would make it worthwhile for the house to impeach. It's a shit show and you know it.

His cronies lied to congress but not about collusion but about giving false info about the Russian Trump tower ( dates and times ). Manafort and Cohen were prosecuted for tax evasion and other assorted crimes as well as lying to the Feds.
 
The Republicans knew they couldn't win when they impeached Clinton but did it anyway.

There's lots of reasons why the Democrats should impeach Trump but the main argument is that he obstructed justice and instructed his cronies to lie to Congress. That simple.



And the republicans fucked up, I agree. Are the dems so fucked up that they can't learn a lesson. It's all about TDS and congressional over reach ( DUMB )
 
Neither does the Ways and Means Committee for the same reasons I already stated.

As part of that inquiry, on April 3, I requested six years of the President’s personal and business tax returns, pursuant to my authority under section 6103(f) of the IRS Code. I believed then, as I do now, that reviewing the requested documents is a necessary piece of the committee’s work.

You are free to goggle it.
 
dan_c00000 writes: "Since we've always know Barr was a hack partisan he was never going to prosecute Trump for jay walking much less obstruction of justice and attempted treason."

Yeah, remember when the entire U.S. House of Representatives CENSURED Attorney General Barr for trying to block a congressional investigation into that whole Fast & Furious scandal? No... no, wait a minute... that wasn't Barr... that was Obama's U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder censured by the House.

But remember when A.G. Barr secretly met on that airport tarmac in Phoenix with former president Bill Clinton to discuss the ongoing Department of Justice investigation into former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's illegal use of an e-mail server to send top-secret information over an unsecured outlet? No... hold on... my bad... that wasn't Barr, either... that was Obama's other U.S. Attorney General, Loretta Lynch who did that! She & the former president told reporters that they only met in secret to discuss their grandkids & Bill's golf game, remember? The scandal involving Hillary's e-mails never even came up!
 
Incorrect. He found evidence of crimes and left it up to the Attorney General to decide whether or not to prosecute. Since we've always know Barr was a hack partisan he was never going to prosecute Trump for jay walking much less obstruction of justice and attempted treason.



I don't remember it quite the way you describe it. I think Mueller's report stated that the findings could neither charge nor exonerate. Mueller was asked if his reason to not criminally charge was because a sitting president cannot be indicted, I believe his answer no. Barr and his staff, to include Rod Rosenstein, did not find criminal intent because of Mueller's over aggressive definition of obstruction of justice. Refer to Rightguide's supporting doc, Barr's letter defining obstruction of justice and his reason to refute Mueller's narratives.
 
That was Barr's letter. The report left it up to the Attorney General to decide. Literally hundreds of federal prosecutors said they'd charged Trump based on Muller's report. Barr, in a manner not too dissimilar from Manafort, more or less auditioned for the part by writing a memo to Trump saying the President is, basically, above the law.



If you read Barr's letter and paid attention to detail you would understand the outcome of no obstruction of justice.:caning:
 
Don't have to, I've already cited the appropriate legal precedent for denying Congress their fishing expedition.

Hi there - you're totally wrong. Federal tax law specifically says that the Chairman of the House Ways and Means committee makes a written request for any individual's tax returns, the Treasury Secretary has to furnish them. The law was written as part of the response to the Teapot Dome corruption scandal of Warren G. Harding's presidency.

Trump is once again breaking the law by ordering his cronies to not release his returns.
 
Hi there - you're totally wrong. Federal tax law specifically says that the Chairman of the House Ways and Means committee makes a written request for any individual's tax returns, the Treasury Secretary has to furnish them. The law was written as part of the response to the Teapot Dome corruption scandal of Warren G. Harding's presidency.

Trump is once again breaking the law by ordering his cronies to not release his returns.

Wrong. Here's all the legal reasons why he has no right to trump's taxes and business records. Educate yourself and bother me on more until you do:


Nat’l Treasury Employees Union v. FLRA, 791 F.2d 183, 184 (D.C. Cir. 1986).

EPIC v. IRS, 910 F.3d 1232, 1235 (D.C. Cir. 2018)

18 U.S.C. §1905; 26 U.S.C. §§7213(a)(1), 7431(a).

EPIC, 910 F.3d at 1235.

Watkins v. United States, 354 U.S. 178, 187 (1957).

United States v. Patterson, 206 F.2d 433, 434 (D.C. Cir. 1953).

Kilbourn v. Thompson, 103 U.S. 168, 190 (1880).

Watkins, 354 U.S. at 200, 187. Id. at 187. Id. at 188.

Rutan v. Republican Party of Ill., 497 U.S. 62, 75 (1990); Lozman v. City of Riviera Beach, 138 S.Ct. 1945, 1949 (2018).

Cruise-Gulyas v. Minard, 918 F.3d 494, 497 (6th Cir. 2019).

Perry v. Sindermann, 408 U.S. 593, 597 (1972).

Op. O.L.C. 27, 31 (1981).

26 U.S.C. §6103(g).

Pillsbury Co. v. FTC, 354 F.2d 952, 964 (5th Cir. 1966).

0 Op. O.L.C. 68, 76 (1986).

8 Op. O.L.C. 252, 263 (1984).
 
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