My Rant

[miles]

Over the past few days I've seen some political statements made on this BB that are downright scary. Many are regurgitated lies with no basis in fact from politicians whose top priority is to ensure their own re-election. They will stop at nothing to accomplish their goal. By repeating those lies, well, you know the rest.

I'll bet that most, if not all the members of this board would go absolutely ballistic if the government started to shut down what they deem "inappropriate" websites. Aside from the fact that it's censorship, we prefer to govern ourselves in these matters and don't want someone else telling us what we can read. We are tolerant of other people and could care less about they do in the privacy of their own homes as long as they don't violate the rights of another. A "liberal" concept. On the other hand, many conservatives want official standards for stuff like this and want the government to defend our precious moral fiber. They make no bones about their desire to limit our access to whatever they deem "immoral". It's censorship, and no matter how you slice it, a violation of free speech.

Some of us (including me) bristle at the thought of being categorized as a liberal, because in the classic sense liberals believe one of the roles of government is to ensure economic "fairness" to everyone. To MAKE everyone equal. That takes money. The government itself has no wealth - they have to get it from somewhere, and they get it from us. Yeah, I know, they should get it from "big business". They do, and big business turns around and pass their increased costs to us. If they don't, they die. It's a hidden tax (looked at your phone bill lately?). Worst of all, the more money individuals earn through their own hard work the more they are penalized by higher taxes. Funny, I always taught it was very "American" to work hard and hopefully accumulate wealth through your hard work.

Would you describe yourself as someone who believes in self governing your money? Could you get a better return on all the money the government has taken (by force) from you with the promise of paying it back when you retire? Well guess what - that's exactly what "right-wing conservatives" want.
Personally, I'd rather take a sharp stick in the eye than call myself a conservative!

So what does all this bullshit mean?

Simple. For me it means that I don't want the feds telling me what I can read, who I can screw, or what substance I want to smoke, snort, or rub into my belly. As long as I don't violate another citizen's rights, leave me the fuck alone. But I also want to get the government's hand out of my pocket and stop spending and/or giving my hard-earned money to somebody else. I'm tired of opening my telephone bill only to find an array of hidden taxes and tarrifs that nobody can explain so no one will question it. It's my money. I worked for it. It's not up to them to decide how much of my income I get to keep so they can take the rest. There are other ways for the feds to get money other than through pillage.

So I'm not Liberal and not Conservative. I'm a Libertarian.

On election day I didn't have to hold my nose while I voted for the lesser of two evils. I didn't have to compromise my beliefs. Some people say a vote for a Libertarian is a wasted vote because they could never win, and maybe that's true. But I damn sure didn't have to vote for the guy who pissed me off the least.

I'm not a political genius. I didn't invent the Libertarian Party. I just believe in it, and it's my guess that there are a hell of a lot of other people who are Libertarians and don't even know it. I'm not saying everyone else is wrong or that I even agree with everything Libertarians want. But to me it makes a lot more sense than 99% of the bullshit we listen to from members of the other two parties.
and much more than some of the absurd statements on this BB which have absolutely no basis in fact.

Finally, if anyone feels compelled to take what I've said and repost it, rip it, and flame it, go ahead. I won't respond. If you don't agree, fine. These are my observations and my beliefs. Before I heard about Libertarianism I felt like there was nobody to vote for. But don't take my word for it or anyone else's. Find out the facts. Don't parrot the talking heads.

End of rant.

 

[Unclebill]

AMEN!

It's so nice to know I'm not the only one around here.

If you've read many of my posts, you've probably already run across my opinion that the difference between Liberals and Conservatives is the areas of my life they want to dictate and the degree of fiscal confiscation they seek to practice.

For a way to possibly begin to change some things albeit VERY slowly, look into the site http://www.fija.org. If enough of us take this seriously, we can make a difference.

 

[KillerMuffin]

If it weren't for civil rights, I would have vastly preferred the south to have won.

Well, dammit, don't stop now. Just cause the election is over doesn't mean the constituents aren't heard. Email is free, just takes time. Stamps are 32 now, 34 what, after christmas? Phone calls are probably a bad idea though. Be polite, well informed, have good grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Don't spout rhetoric, just write clearly and concisely about what issues are important to you and what you consider the wisest thing to be done about them.

 

[TN_Vixen]

miles?

I still love ya baby.

 

[CreamyLady]

I truly regard myself as a liberal. However, I don't see it in strictly economic terms, though it may seem so.

A liberal is someone who believes fervently in the rights and dignity of the individual. I loathe firearms for instance. I think they have absolutely no place in this society, and irresponsible ownership is the root of all evil. As long as the Second Amendment stands, however, I will support responsible gun ownership and not demand repeal.

A liberal also recognizes that, with the best will in the world, we are not all created equal, with equal abilities or advantages, and that we have a moral obligation to help our less fortunate brothers and sisters. Does that mean giving them the moon at the expense of others? No.

It means children who aren't going to bed hungry, and attending inadequate schools, and wearing inadequate clothing. It means helping with basic medical care and child care so that a person can go to work with one less worry about the kids. It means teaching children responsible sexual behavior, including birth control, and how to make responsible choices -- even if the Religious Right has a collective hissy fit over the very idea that teenagers might choose to be sexual before marriage.

I'm sorry if this steps on the corns of those who believe that everyone has equal opportunities to go out and make a pile of money, live in a big house, and call the shots for everyone else. I'm more sorry that the values in this country are so skewed that it is perfectly acceptable to blame the poor for poverty, kids for their hormones, and artists for corrupting minds.

There. Flame away, conservative people.

 

[miles]

TN_Vixen

Nahhhh..you love watching me squirm.

 

[Sonora]

Don't parrot the talking heads.

Isn't that what you're doing? You said that you're not a political genius, so it seems that your opinions are based on the words of others and you are 'parroting' them.

CL, well said.

 

[CreamyLady]

Thank you, Sonora. Well said, yourself.

 

[Thumper]

Money is the root of all evil...

Money is power and power corrupts (even Libertarians)

Money is status...a way to say I am better and more deserving...But...I have said before..

You can't eat it
You can't drink it
You can't breathe it

So when you are done trashing the planet to get as much of it as you can...you can use it to keep you warm...it does burn.

Money is a tool...what a poor life to die with millions in the bank and to have watched others starve and and die needlessly when you could have made a difference...

Jesus said
"When I came to your door hungry, you refused me food"

"When I was in prison, you did not visit me"

"When I was cold and naked you did not clothe me"

and they replied

"But Lord you never came to our door!"

and He replied

"I say to you that the least of my children that came to you, It was I"

...and I am not even a Christian....but these words do have meaning to me.

Maybe we should bring back the workhouses and debtor prisons.

"Then let them die and get on with decreasing the surplus population!"

In the Literotica version of "A Christmas Carol" I get to be the Ghost of Christmas Present!

Miles...the hard work= wealth mantra is old and a total load of crap. The rich get richer and the working class gets screwed...

The top 4 or 5% of the population saw their wealth increase 535% over the last ten years...mine went up about 10-15%


Where is all this money that Reagan said would trickle down???

FYI...If I made a million a year I would gladly pay 33%. I can have one hell of a fucking party on 666,000 dollars...and have plenty left over too...I don't need much


[Edited by Thumper on 12-15-2000 at 02:47 PM]

 

[Whispersecret]

Nevermind.

[Edited by whispersecret on 12-15-2000 at 02:56 PM]

 

[Andra_Jenny]

I am drunk but,

Liberals want us to be more like Europe who runs to <U.S.> whenever something goes wrong instead of handling it themselves. Conservatives want us to be like we were. I prefer the latter to the former. We should quit turning to government to resolve our problems and more to family, community and church. But I vote Libertarian. I want my legal drugs to shut out everyone's pathetic whining!

 

[TN_Vixen]

miles?

Nahhhh..you love watching me squirm.

true only when you let me be in control. Otherwise I'm submissive at heart. *kiss*

~squirm baby squirm...~

 

[miles]

Princepesa (Tn_V):

top/bottom
left/right
day/night
fast/slow.........it's all good, baaabyyyyyy!

 

[Skibum]

I am a dyed in the wool conservative, but I question the Libertarian point of view. It seems to me that we have to provide a safety net that the Libertarian platform does not provide for. And I abhore isolationism. We are a global power, in a global economy. We have to be responsible.

 

[Unclebill]

Originally posted by CreamyLady
I truly regard myself as a liberal. However, I don't see it in strictly economic terms, though it may seem so.

A liberal is someone who believes fervently in the rights and dignity of the individual. I loathe firearms for instance. I think they have absolutely no place in this society, and irresponsible ownership is the root of all evil. As long as the Second Amendment stands, however, I will support responsible gun ownership and not demand repeal.

Rights and Dignity of the individual - Two separate things altogether. Rights are innate and apply only to the individual in a rational context. Most of the usage of rights today is more properly termed authority, power or privilege. If it does not apply unequivocally to everyone, it is not a right. Dignity, i. e., respect, is a commodity to be earned. A reasonable and rational man grants a limited respect and trust to anyone he encounters. The actions of that person determines if that respect is diminished or enhanced.

An irrational man has little or no understanding of such because he uses arbitrary criteria such as skin color, etc., as a measure of character.

Also, I have noticed especially among the political liberals in highly visible public positions that they are the ones who are always looking to categorize people by skin color, ethnicity, or some other trait yet who claim to be color-blind. Well, if they are, why is it they always need to help the underprivileged group of some sort or other? They are the ones whose behavior and speech is openly racist, sexist, ethnicist and yet they are the ones accusing the conservatives of what they themselves preach and practice. And the really sad part is that too many people are taken in by this crap.

Would you support freedom to own firearms if there were no second amendment? The founders understood what the liberals of today are trying to obscure and deny.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth."
-- George Washington

Originally posted by CreamyLady
A liberal also recognizes that, with the best will in the world, we are not all created equal, with equal abilities or advantages, and that we have a moral obligation to help our less fortunate brothers and sisters. Does that mean giving them the moon at the expense of others? No.

It means children who aren't going to bed hungry, and attending inadequate schools, and wearing inadequate clothing. It means helping with basic medical care and child care so that a person can go to work with one less worry about the kids. It means teaching children responsible sexual behavior, including birth control, and how to make responsible choices -- even if the Religious Right has a collective hissy fit over the very idea that teenagers might choose to be sexual before marriage.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed …

From the Declaration of Independence. What is not taught but the founders understood is a very abstract interpretation of equality. Considering their achievement in the founding of the Unites States of America, they were hardly so inept that they believed that equality meant in terms of looks, health, physical strength, intellect or any other such attribute. In this context, equality relates to one's rights as indicated in the passage immediately following the one quoted above. Put in simplest terms, it means that each person is the owner of his own life and no one else can legitimately impose an obligation on him. Likewise, his rights impose no obligation on another except in the negative imposition context of them not being permitted to violate his rights.

You make the declaration that we have a moral obligation to help the less fortunate. That's your opinion. I won't argue that, you're fully entitled to hold and voice it. You have every right to practice it as well. Where your right ends is when you wish to force others to practice it.

What we have legislated today (over the past 40 years or so) is a legal (coercive) obligation by which politicians can confiscate your earnings to help the less fortunate, even if it's to buy drugs for poor little Bill Gates when he reaches the golden age of Social Security and Medicare. This coercive obligation is morally reprehensible in that it violates the fundamental principles upon which this nation was founded, i. e., individual rights, freedoms and responsibilities.

Today's liberals in political circles wish to change the idea of equality to mean equality of outcome, i. e., achievement, success, etc. Such an idea is ludicrous at best and viciously evil at worst. You can see some of its effect in Outcome Based Education where the learning of factual information is secondary to the idea of 'self esteem' derived from being told that one's effort is more important than the result. This may sound good but what happens when the child who answered that 2 + 2 was 5 and was never corrected goes to work as a cashier and gets fired because they can't make correct change? Now what is the pseudo-self esteem worth?

The reality is that life is not fair. Those who produce the best product or service don't always succeed. The guy who writes the best program isn't always the one who makes the most money. Those who work hardest don't always succeed. Sometimes it's marketing, sometimes it's timing, sometimes it's just dumb luck, i. e., chance.

Originally posted by CreamyLady
I'm sorry if this steps on the corns of those who believe that everyone has equal opportunities to go out and make a pile of money, live in a big house, and call the shots for everyone else. I'm more sorry that the values in this country are so skewed that it is perfectly acceptable to blame the poor for poverty, kids for their hormones, and artists for corrupting minds.

There. Flame away, conservative people.

Only a fool believes that everyone has the same opportunities. That's so ludicrous I can hardly believe anyone is stupid enough to voice it but I hear it frequently. Life is not fair. Never has been, never will be. Opportunity is sometimes self-made, sometimes falls into your lap and sometimes blind chance. You have to be in the right place, with the right skills, qualities, or whatever trait is needed and put it forward. Sometimes it's who you know. Having a contact in a corporation can get you a job that others might desire. Fair? No, but then, that's life.

I do wonder where you got the idea that the poor are blamed for poverty or kids for their hormones. Never heard those. I have heard artists blamed for corrupting minds. (Frankly, I don't see how anyone can call a lot of that crap art but they do.) But the blaming game comes from both liberals (remember Tipper Gore and the record rating fiasco?) and conservatives which as I've said before are just different sides of the same coin. Parents are responsible for what kids learn (both academic and moral), what TV they watch, what movies they attend, etc.

 

[Guest]

I am a dyed in the wool conservative, but I question the Libertarian point of view. It seems to me that we have to provide a safety net that the Libertarian platform does not provide for. And I abhore isolationism. We are a global power, in a global economy. We have to be responsible.

Well said. Libertarians have an inability to see past their own noses. They don't realise that taking care of the poor and needy is not just an act borne of kindness, but of necessity. No one wins in a society riddled with poverty and crime. By taking care of others to some degree, we insure that we live in a society where we can walk the streets with relative safety.

Libertarians are also under the false impression that every aspect of goverment can be run by private enterprise. This simply is not so. There are many things: roads, police, defense, etc. that enrich society yet do not turn a profit.

There's a toll road in Orange County, CA that was built and run by a private company. That company has discovered that the cost of a road is too much to recover from a toll. Does this mean that the road is unimportant, because it doesn't turn a profit? Of course not. That road enables the swift transport of millions of dollars worth of goods. It transports people from point A to point B much more quickly, allowing society to run more efficiently. THAT is the purpose of government, to pool resources from its citizenry and take over services that private enterprise and individuals alone could not accomplish. By doing so, a country is enriched and flourishes.

All those of you who bitch about your tax money being "wasted", remember all the roads, the schools, the policeman, the fireman, and the defense industry that your taxes fund. Less than 1% of your tax dollars go to welfare, and a large percentage of that goes to families who are in temporary need. Most of your taxes go to bankers to pay the interest on the national debt, the armed forces for our defense, and housekeeping issues such as the building of roads and schools.

If you think you can build your own roads, police your own neighborhood, school your own children, and defend your country by yourself against an invader, then go ahead, quit paying taxes, grab your rifle, and rally against your own government. Seems rather unpatriotic to sneer at your own country, but it's your choice.

How anyone can distrust their own government 'by the people and for the people' yet blindly believe in the 'goodness' of private enterprise - without the realization that the same sort of person runs both - is beyond me. Government and corporations are both equally prone to corruption. Anyone who believes otherwise, at either side of the spectrum, is hopelessly naive.

 

[Sonora]

Most of your taxes go to bankers to pay the interest on the national debt,

This is what drives me craziest about the Bush budget proposals. If I 'returned' more of my money to me instad of paying off my debts, how long do you think it will be before the sheriff's deputies are knocking on my door? Sure, I would love to have more money to spend, but there are certain responsibilities that along with the privilege of being citizens of the US. We have an obligation to pay off our debt.