My Girlfriend and BDSM Friend

[KellinGrey]

Hey everyone... I'm pretty new to this whole thing and I thought this would be a good place to find some answers and hear from people who have experience in BDSMs opinions'.

So pretty much, this is the entire story/concept I need to make a decision about...
This girl I've been dating for about 3 months or so just informed me that she does BDSM with an experienced person in a completely non-sexual way. She says she does it for therapy to work through some issues she has. We want to make it official but she wants to keep having these "non-sexual" sessions with this person to continue working through her issues and to be honest it's hard for me to wrap my head around BDSM not being sexual - especially if it involves her being completely naked around this other person. I care about her deeply and I hate myself for feeling jealous or uncomfortable with it if it's helping her therapeutically. I also hate myself because the concept of not being able to satisfy her in that way bothers me - although we have never tried BDSM together because our relationship is still new. I'm completely open to the idea of doing it, I actually enjoy the slight amount that I've done in the past, but I'm worried that I won't be able to give her the therapeutic value she gains from the sessions...

I have to be okay with this in order to make our relationship official and I'm not sure if I am. I'm not sure if BDSM can be non-sexual. I know it can have therapeutic value though. But I don't want to throw away our relationship just because of this - this isn't a big enough deal to me to want to throw it away over. But I know it'll still bother me the most that I'm not able to "please" her in that way - if please is the right word to use.

So I guess the question I'm trying to answer is this, can BDSM be non-sexual and should I be worried? And should I make our relationship official and let her keep doing these sessions? I'm pretty lost and could use some input from experienced people in the field...

Thank you for any input and opinions on the matter. It helps more than you know...

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Welcome to Lit.

Please know that this can be a slower moving forum, but people will read your post and likely comment. I'm thinking about your situation now, but don't have much experience to rely on to answer. I know many who have non-sexual BDSM experiences, but I'm not one of them and, like you, I struggle a bit to understand that. BDSM is very sexual for me.

I think you can forge a path forward in the relationship if you want to, but it will require open communication and honesty. I'm looking forward to other's responses.

 

[KellinGrey]

Thank you for the response. Means a lot.
When I think about it I feel personally it'd be very sexual for me as well, and I think that's part of why it's hard for me to grasp the concept of it not being sexual.

 

[CutieMouse]

Therapy is for therapists.

It isn't uncommon for people to say they're "working through XYZ" by using kink/BDSM, but I personally [judgmentally] believe that is unethical, ineffective bullshit.

Yes, BDSM can be non-sexual; especially if one is coming from a service philosophy. Even spankings/etc can be non-sexual (often utilized in Domestic Discipline). However, I a difficult time wrapping my head around anything that could be better worked on with nudity and BDSM instead of a qualified, licensed therapist. When dominants have asked about using BDSM as therapy over the years, the idea has usually been completely shut down as a very bad idea/get the submissive into therapy, instead. (Just food for thought.)

Having said that... she may need her kinks and be using " it's like therapy" as an excuse/explanation. She may also be unable (or unwilling) to explore that with you, or be patient enough to develop a relationship with someone whom she doesn't view as "experienced". Submissives do sometimes use Dominants as fetish fantasy dispensaries, under the excuse of wanting someone "experienced"... like they read about in their favorite erotic novels.

If you can agree to explore/develop a kinky relationship together, awesome. If not, I'd suggest doing some research on polyamory to understand how her interest in someone else has nothing to do with you being less, or not enough, or anything of that sort. FetLife has several poly forums, and doing an amazon.com search for polyamory will probably bring up titles such as The Ethical Slut, More Than Two, Opening Up, etc.

 

[subkitty643]

Sounds like quite a predicament! I have a difficult time separating BDSM from sexuality and if she has issues that need to be worked out, I also reccomend actual therapy. With no knowledge of her personally it sounds like she is trying to justify keeping that relationship while getting more serious with you. So, if you really want to work things out with her it may be in your best interest to consider a polyamorous relationship or if you want monogamy cutting your losses beforeyou get serious and moving on.

 

[Primalex]

This girl I've been dating for about 3 months or so just informed me that she does BDSM with an experienced person in a completely non-sexual way. She says she does it for therapy to work through some issues she has. We want to make it official but she wants to keep having these "non-sexual" sessions with this person to continue working through her issues and to be honest it's hard for me to wrap my head around BDSM not being sexual - especially if it involves her being completely naked around this other person.

"Sexual" is a difficult term with a lot of meanings.

Let's take a sauna, where people are completely nude.
People don't do it for the sexual aspect, but for the health.
Then again, it does not mean that the persons in there will always be completely free from "naughty thoughts".

I'm not sure if BDSM can be non-sexual.

This is not the question that drives you. The question is whether she has sexual interactions with other men and whether you trust her, if she says no.

You don't need to ask questions about BDSM, you need to ask questions about yourself and your relationship with her:
Do you trust her?
Do you trust her enough that you can find peace?
And... what actually means "making it official" to you and what significance has it for you and does she actually share the same significance?

 

[ArielRacine]

Hey everyone... I'm pretty new to this whole thing and I thought this would be a good place to find some answers and hear from people who have experience in BDSMs opinions'.

So pretty much, this is the entire story/concept I need to make a decision about...
This girl I've been dating for about 3 months or so just informed me that she does BDSM with an experienced person in a completely non-sexual way. She says she does it for therapy to work through some issues she has. We want to make it official but she wants to keep having these "non-sexual" sessions with this person to continue working through her issues and to be honest it's hard for me to wrap my head around BDSM not being sexual - especially if it involves her being completely naked around this other person...

So I guess the question I'm trying to answer is this, can BDSM be non-sexual and should I be worried? And should I make our relationship official and let her keep doing these sessions? I'm pretty lost and could use some input from experienced people in the field...

Thank you for any input and opinions on the matter. It helps more than you know...

I believe the question that underlies your future with your girlfriend is "Can she learn to work through those issues with me, rather than someone else?"

Whether or not the encounter is sexual, there are elements of emotional intimacy and depth of trust at work. Are you willing and able to take on the role of dominant? If so, you can likely step in to her world. If not, staying with her could be difficult for you. It would be hard for most people to accept that an entire area of their lover's life is not accessible to them.

Good luck!

 

[MeekMe]

I believe the question that underlies your future with your girlfriend is "Can she learn to work through those issues with me, rather than someone else?"

Whether or not the encounter is sexual, there are elements of emotional intimacy and depth of trust at work. Are you willing and able to take on the role of dominant? If so, you can likely step in to her world. If not, staying with her could be difficult for you. It would be hard for most people to accept that an entire area of their lover's life is not accessible to them.

Good luck!

Why would this person need to take the role of dominant? I didn't see where the OP mentioned anything about d/s or even that his girlfriend takes a submissive role. It could be topping and bottoming without power exchange which happens all the time.

 

[KellinGrey]

@CutieMouse
Thank you for the input. You may be right, it might just be an excuse. I hope that's not the case but I completely see where you're coming from. I would be very open to exploring it with her. That may be the only way around it for me.

 

[KellinGrey]

"Sexual" is a difficult term with a lot of meanings.

Let's take a sauna, where people are completely nude.
People don't do it for the sexual aspect, but for the health.
Then again, it does not mean that the persons in there will always be completely free from "naughty thoughts".



This is not the question that drives you. The question is whether she has sexual interactions with other men and whether you trust her, if she says no.

You don't need to ask questions about BDSM, you need to ask questions about yourself and your relationship with her:
Do you trust her?
Do you trust her enough that you can find peace?
And... what actually means "making it official" to you and what significance has it for you and does she actually share the same significance?

With a Sauna it isn't the same level of intimacy. I get where you're coming from though. I know that the issue spawns from my own insecurities, which I absolutely hate. But at the same time, I feel there's another solution aside from just letting it go on or Polyamory. I care about her deeply and I know she does for me as well.

 

[KellinGrey]

I believe the question that underlies your future with your girlfriend is "Can she learn to work through those issues with me, rather than someone else?"

Whether or not the encounter is sexual, there are elements of emotional intimacy and depth of trust at work. Are you willing and able to take on the role of dominant? If so, you can likely step in to her world. If not, staying with her could be difficult for you. It would be hard for most people to accept that an entire area of their lover's life is not accessible to them.

Good luck!

I completely agree and that intimacy with another person feeds my insecurity... I'm more than willing to take on the role but I'm not going to be as experienced, but if she's okay with that then that's a good solution.

 

[KellinGrey]

Why would this person need to take the role of dominant? I didn't see where the OP mentioned anything about d/s or even that his girlfriend takes a submissive role. It could be topping and bottoming without power exchange which happens all the time.

Yeah, I didn't mention that, that's my fault. She does take on the submissive role in the sessions she does though.

 

[Primalex]

Yeah, I didn't mention that, that's my fault. She does take on the submissive role in the sessions she does though.

Uhm, better don't use terms you are not familiar with. As you don't know what these two people are actually doing, except that they are naked, it's best to just not try to describe their activities with BDSM terms.

 

[KellinGrey]

Uhm, better don't use terms you are not familiar with. As you don't know what these two people are actually doing, except that they are naked, it's best to just not try to describe their activities with BDSM terms.

Which terms did I use? Polyamory isn't just a BDSM term if that's what you're referring to.

 

[Primalex]

Which terms did I use? Polyamory isn't just a BDSM term if that's what you're referring to.

submissive

 

[KellinGrey]

submissive

Oohhh. With that I'm just going off what she has told me about the sessions. I may be completely wrong with the terms, you're right.

 

[MeekMe]

Yeah, I didn't mention that, that's my fault. She does take on the submissive role in the sessions she does though.

Submissive as in giving her friend authority over her? Or bottoming as in letting him do things to her while she maintains decision making power for herself? There's a difference.

But at the same time, I feel there's another solution aside from just letting it go on or Polyamory.

She's told you flat out that this person and relationship exists in her life and that she wants to continue that way. In my opinion, that's not room for you to ask her to stop in order to be with you. That's room to say, "thanks for informing me, I'm uncomfortable with that arrangement. Good luck finding what you're looking for." I know you don't want to stop because of this, and you said

I have to be okay with this in order to make our relationship official and I'm not sure if I am. I'm not sure if BDSM can be non-sexual. I know it can have therapeutic value though. But I don't want to throw away our relationship just because of this - this isn't a big enough deal to me to want to throw it away over. But I know it'll still bother me the most that I'm not able to "please" her in that way - if please is the right word to use.

Now you are saying different, that there must be another solution. Is it because some people have tipped you off that it might not be as "therapeutic" as she claims?* Are you thinking you can offer to do it in place of the friend? Do you even know what the friend does?

*Thats an assumption and because we don't know what they're doing or how it helps we can't for sure say that isn't the case. However, I don't recommend BDSM as a replacement for therapy.

 

[Primalex]

With a Sauna it isn't the same level of intimacy.

How would you know?

I get where you're coming from though. I know that the issue spawns from my own insecurities, which I absolutely hate.

I have yet to see a human who does not feel a level of insecurity in a new partnership.

Actually, the only thing you are really entitled to are your feelings, because they define who you are.

But at the same time, I feel there's another solution aside from just letting it go on or Polyamory. I care about her deeply and I know she does for me as well.

Solutions are for mathematicians. Humans have options. Your problem is not a lack of options, your problem is that you don't know how each option plays out. So your first task as junior dominant is to make a decision and man up.

You are asking for an advice? Take the most difficult route. Tell her what you wrote down here. This still might not end up in your happy fairytale future, there is never a guarantee, but it's a decision where no matter the outcome, I could still look into the mirror every day and see no problem in what I did.

 

[ArielRacine]

How would you know?
I have yet to see a human who does not feel a level of insecurity in a new partnership.

Actually, the only thing you are really entitled to are your feelings, because they define who you are.

Solutions are for mathematicians. Humans have options. Your problem is not a lack of options, your problem is that you don't know how each option plays out. So your first task as junior dominant is to make a decision and man up.

You are asking for an advice? Take the most difficult route. Tell her what you wrote down here. This still might not end up in your happy fairytale future, there is never a guarantee, but it's a decision where no matter the outcome, I could still look into the mirror every day and see no problem in what I did.

This is an excellent suggestion, begin your dialogue with this thread. Explore.

 

[KellinGrey]

How would you know?



I have yet to see a human who does not feel a level of insecurity in a new partnership.

Actually, the only thing you are really entitled to are your feelings, because they define who you are.




Solutions are for mathematicians. Humans have options. Your problem is not a lack of options, your problem is that you don't know how each option plays out. So your first task as junior dominant is to make a decision and man up.

You are asking for an advice? Take the most difficult route. Tell her what you wrote down here. This still might not end up in your happy fairytale future, there is never a guarantee, but it's a decision where no matter the outcome, I could still look into the mirror every day and see no problem in what I did.

That is great advice. I appreciate it. I didn't mean to offend anyone by using terms I didn't know the meaning of. I was just looking for opinions and advice. Thank you for that.

 

[Bramblethorn]

There's a bit of a No True Scotsman thing at work here.

Lots of people get an endorphin high from painful sensation. When that's viewed as a sexual act, it tends to get labelled as a subset of "BDSM". When it's not, it doesn't.

For instance - when I got tattooed on my ribs, I drifted away into a sort of trance. Most wouldn't call that BDSM... even though it probably has a lot in common with the trance that my acquaintance J gets into by having people stick needles into their nipples at a BDSM play party.

It's a bit of an arbitrary distinction and it has a lot of baggage. It's also complicated by the fact that in many jurisdictions it's illegal to provide sexual services for money, so some people have to stress BDSM as a non-sexual activity regardless of whether they actually believe that.

In short, "BDSM" means different things to different people. So I don't think it's going to help you to ask "can BDSM be non-sexual?" It would probably be better to focus on the specific things that she does, and try to figure out whether you're okay with those things, rather than on how they relate to a somewhat arbitrary label.

(And at the end of the day, even if it's completely non-sexual, you still get to decide whether you're okay with being in a relationship with somebody who has that other involvement.)

I also hate myself because the concept of not being able to satisfy her in that way bothers me - although we have never tried BDSM together because our relationship is still new. I'm completely open to the idea of doing it, I actually enjoy the slight amount that I've done in the past, but I'm worried that I won't be able to give her the therapeutic value she gains from the sessions...

Depending on her psyche, it's quite possible that it works better for her to be getting BDSM-y stuff from somebody who isn't her partner. She might need a different vibe there.

IME, one of the secrets of a successful relationship is not expecting to be one another's everything. My partner and I love one another, but it's also good for us to have our space, things that are just mine or just hers.

That said - by all means talk to her about whether she's interested in BDSM with you! Just don't take it as a reflection on you if she still wants to do BDSM stuff with her other partner.

 

[pensivepoet]

Why don't you go to a session as an observer
If she's being completely honest, she should have no objections
And you'll find out if you're comfortable with it or if you deem it sexual.

 

[Dribble]

Why don't you go to a session as an observer
If she's being completely honest, she should have no objections
And you'll find out if you're comfortable with it or if you deem it sexual.

This...

 

[Blue]

Why don't you go to a session as an observer
If she's being completely honest, she should have no objections

Unless she's uncomfortable being watched?...

And you'll find out if you're comfortable with it

His level of comfort could be an irrational snap decision founded on ignorance of her mentality.

If she gets off doing something really enigmatic, like being suspended by the ankles with barbed wire, that's hardly a fair test.
His level of comfort could entirely change over time.

or if you deem it sexual.

Scene from Secretary:

Lee:
*Stare*
https://sinaphile.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/maggie-in-secretary-maggie-gyllenhaal-736955_1024_576.jpg?w=460&h=259

Peter:
"Lee......is this something sexual?"

Lee:
*Looks at Peter*
"Does this look sexual?"

Peter:
"I DON'T KNOW, LEE!"

 

[pensivepoet]

Unless she's uncomfortable being watched?...

His level of comfort could be an irrational snap decision founded on ignorance of her mentality.

If she gets off doing something really enigmatic, like being suspended by the ankles with barbed wire, that's hardly a fair test.
His level of comfort could change entirely over time.

Scene from Secretary:

Lee:
*Stare*
https://sinaphile.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/maggie-in-secretary-maggie-gyllenhaal-736955_1024_576.jpg?w=460&h=259

Peter:
"Lee......is this something sexual?"

Lee:
*Looks at Peter*
"Does this look sexual?"

Peter:
"I DON'T KNOW, LEE!"

I could defend my suggestion you attacked
Or attack your counterpoints
But you know,
Nah.