My ancestor is scarier than your ancestor.

[shereads]

Recently, the topic of shame and sexual repression came up in the Keeping India British thread. Someone suggested that Britain is repressed; I think America remains the World Shame Champion, and I defy anyone to demonstrate more ancestral shame than can be found in the sermons of Shereads' only famous ancestor, an early Boston minister named Cotton Mather.

I knew the name from American history books, as the man whose sermons single-handedly saved 18th century Boston from internet pornography and eternal damnation.

I didn't know he was my ancestor until a distant cousin had the poor taste to dig him up and notify everyone. With pride, I might add; we are a religious family.



(Hijacking the Non-Americacentric Thread to post the words of an American minister would have been too ironic.)

I hope these excerpts from my ancestor's published sermons will help clarify my country's position on s-e-x and discourage anyone from contesting the Shame title. If they happen to save your soul, that's great too.



What Must I Do to Be Saved?

-- Cotton Mather, Boston, c. 1724

Awake up my soul! the awful day,
Is coming swiftly on,
When thou must leave this House of Clay,
And fly to Worlds unknown.
Oh! do not pass thy Life in Dreams,
To be surpriz'd by Death:
And drop unthinking down to Flames,
When I resign my Breath.

They who know not God shall have a Vengeance in flaming Fire, taken of them;

God is in Ill Terms with you...You are every moment in danger, of being seized by the formidable Justice of God for Eternal Burnings.

If you Die Unpardoned, you are sent among Devils. Damn'd unto torments; must undergo a strange Punishment, and a long one which is Reserved in a Future State, for the workers of iniquity [unrepentent sinners].

You must feel the Burden of your sin, lying on you; and cry out, Oh' Tis a heavy Burden too heavy for me! You must see God Angry with you, Sin Binding of you, Hell gaping for you; and utterly Despair of helping yourselves out of the confusion that is come upon you.

You must be filled with sorrow, for what you have done; with horror at what you are Expos'd unto. The Cry of your Uneasy Souls must be that; of Romans 7:24. "O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me!"

You must be no strangers to such soliloquies as these; I have sinned; I have sinned, and, woe is unto me, that I have sinned...My Sin renders me obnoxious to the Vengeance of God. Lust enchants me, enslaves me; Satan Tyrannizes over me. I am in hourly Hazzard of an Eternal Banishment from God, into Outer Darkness, into the Place of Dragons. Oh! wretched man that I am: I can do nothing to deliver myself.

This must be done; You must heartily and bitterly Bewail all your Sins.
Your Original Sin, your Actual Sin; the monstrous Aggravation of your Sin; You must be convinced of it.

You must mourn for your Sin...Mourn, Mourn, and never count that you have mourned enough.

You must often bring this to remembrance, God sees me, hears me, knows me, is acquainted with all my ways, A sense of your being under the Notice of God...must make you afraid of incurring His Displeasure; Afraid even of Secret Miscarriages.

You must Deny all Ungodliness and Worldly Lusts and Live godily and soberly and righteously in the World.


-----

Yours in shame,

SR

 

[Guest]

Damn you, ella, now I'm all hot and bothered, i.e., horny. Who will join me in the flames?

a child of perdition,

Perdita

 

[destinie21]

Damn you, ella, now I'm all hot and bothered, i.e., horny. Who will join me in the flames?

a child of perdition,

Perdita

me, me

 

[Guest]

me, me

You're fast, Dest. I like that in a woman.

Perdita

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Wasn't Cotton Mather also behind the Salem witch trials?

---dr.M.

 

[shereads]

Wasn't Cotton Mather also behind the Salem witch trials?

---dr.M.

Must you dwell on the negative?

 

[curious2c]

Yes and friendssss...You must be REDEEMED in the blood of...oh...sorry...got carried away there for a moment. heh...

Actually, my ancestors may have been on the recieveing end of some of those witch trials. Well, not in Salem, perhaps in Ireland or Scotland a long time ago.

If my stories cause me to be damned to an eternal hell...then I'll be in quite good company won't I?

 

[shereads]

I'm jotting down names of possible Witches and Devils who have posted to the thread; so far, pretty much everyone seems culpable. I'm exempt, as a descendent of a famous Man of God.

"Cotton Mather, the minister of Boston's Old North church, was a true believer in witchcraft. In 1688, he had investigated the strange behavior of four children of a Boston mason named John Goodwin. The children had been complaining of sudden pains and crying out together in chorus. He concluded that witchcraft, specifically that practiced by an Irish washerwoman named Mary Glover, was responsible for the children's problems. He presented his findings and conclusions in one of the best known of his 382 works, "Memorable Providences." Mather's experience caused him to vow that to "never use but one grain of patience with any man that shall go to impose upon me a Denial of Devils, or of Witches."

"As it happened, three of the five judges appointed to the court of oyer and terminer that would hear the Salem witchcraft trials were friends of Mather and members of his church._ Mather wrote a letter to one of the three judges, John Richards, suggesting how they might approach evidentiary issues at the upcoming trials. In particular, Mather urged the judges to consider spectral evidence, giving it such weight as"it will bear," and to consider the confessions of witches the best evidence of all._ As the trials progressed, and growing numbers of person confessed to being witches, Mather became firmly convinced that "an Army of Devils is horribly broke in upon the place which is our center."__ On August 4, 1692, Mather delivered a sermon warning that the Last Judgment was near at hand, and portraying himself, Chief Justice Stroughton, and Governor Phips as leading the final charge against the Devil's legions. On August 19, Mather was in Salem to witness the execution of ex-minister George Burroughs for witchcraft. When, on Gallows Hill, Burroughs was able to recite the Lord's Prayer perfectly (something that witches were thought incapable of doing) and some in the crowd called for the execution to be stopped, Mather intervened, reminding those gathered that Burroughs had been duly convicted by a jury. Mather was given the official records of the Salem trials for use in preparation of a book that the judges hoped would favorably describe their role in the affair. The book, "Wonders of the Invisible World," provides facinating insights both into the trials and Mather's own mind.

"When confessed witches began recanting their testimony, Mather may have begun to have doubts about at least some of the proceedings. He revised his own position on the use of spectral evidence and tried to minimize his own large role in its consideration in the Salem trials. Later in life, Mather turned away from the supernatural and may well have come to question whether it played the role it life he first suspected."

See? He wasn't all bad.

 

[Maria2394]

hey perdita!!

wow, odd thread, but very interesting...my ancestors maybe were not all that scary, but one was pretty sad, Catherine Howard one of Henty VIII's wives was a very very distant cousin on my dads side...and then there was a Cherokee woman on great great great grand dad married that was like a medicine woman, and I was told I inherited her "vision" which is kinda creepy sometimes,, and then, I had a great grand father who was a paranoid schizophrenic and thought his wife turned him into the revenuers cause he had a still, well, he shot her, ( she was pregnant and holding a child) so he got three in one shot there and then he took my grandma to the roof with her other sister and brother and held them at gun point till the sheriff talked him down, he was later put in a hospital for the criminally insane where he escaped and went back to NC, was recaptured then poisoned to death by his 2 sisters in law, his body was moved from the jail and never found....
sometimes I joke with my kids that maybe he is still haunting the mountains, looking for those 2 sister...

anyway, thanks for the fun thread, enjoyed popping in, maria

 

[Maria2394]

oh yeah, shereads, I forgot to mention, the salem witch trials, way cool and sad, did you know that they were suffering from ergotamine poisoning from a fungus that contaminated their rye grain?
if You have the time and interest, look up a show on PBS about the ergot link to the witch trials, very interesting...

 

[shereads]

oh yeah, shereads, I forgot to mention, the salem witch trials, way cool and sad, did you know that they were suffering from ergotamine poisoning from a fungus that contaminated their rye grain?

That's what Satan wants you to believe.



BTW, your family history is, um, colorful. That wacky ol' grandpa was a hoot, wasn't he? What fun he must have been at family reunions! I'm imagining all the kids gathering around, saying, "Hold me at gunpoint, Grandpa!" "No, me. Hold me at gunpoint!"

 

[Dirt Man]

Okay, so most people here now know that I am a Christian who writes very good filth. They may even think that because I am a Christian, that I am a hypocrite because I write what is considered porn here at lit. They aren't alone, many Christians would think the same way if they were honest. What most people have a problem with here is that they do not understand the real issue here. It's not because I am, or should be good to get into heaven. All are born in sin ever since Adam, and Eve, and the penalty for any sin at all is death. So no matter how good I am compared to you, or anyone else I can never be good enough on my own to get into heaven. That's the Law according to God, and handed down by Moses himself. However, God is forgiving so he came up with the standard of innocent blood to cover sin from his sight, and mind. Which is what all those blood sacrifices of unblemished animals was about, and pointed to the one unblemished perfect lamb of God that would have to be sacrificed to save all of Mankind's sins, present, past, and future. But there was, and is a catch. You have to actually believe that this one perfect lamb of God was God itself dying to pay for all of your sins present, past, and future, and that his name was Jesus, and that he was, and is the risen proof of this fact.

Saint Paul, when asked how to get to heaven always stopped what he was doing or saying to reply with: "You must believe on the name Jesus Christ."

That's it, and that's all, no trailer after saying that. Yet for some it is the hardest thing in the world for them to do.

In even simpiler terms, it's not because I'm good, but because he was, and is good, and that I believe in the word of Jesus Christ with all of my heart that will allow me into heaven. You see, when he died, and then rose again, all of my sins were in the future.

Does this excuse me from sinning every day? Well, I'm still in the same human body corrupted by sin, so I am sure I will continue to sin as that is the nature of this body. But I don't judge myself, or anyone else, as there is only one judge above all others, and he's the only one that counts in the end. And I know he's forgiven me, and forgotten my sins entirely.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[shereads]

"I add; would it not Break thy Heart, if thy Children, were in Slavery to Turks, or Moors, or Indians?

"Devils are worse than Indians, and Infidels: till thy Children are brought home to God, they are the slaves of Devils...

"Join Fasting to thy Prayer; it may be, the evil in the soul of your child, will not go out, without such a Remedy...

"Let the Child, hear the Groans, and See the Tears, and be a witness of the Agonies, wherewith you are Travailing for the Salvation of it. The Children will never Forget what you do; it will have a marvelous Force upon them."

-- Cotton Mather, "The Duty of Parents To Children"

Nothing against Christianity, DirtMan. But some twisted things have been done to the minds of children in God's name, and I trust that if there is a God, He resents it.

BTW: Cotton Mather's father, Increase Mather, helped instigate the rebellion in Massachusetts, with a sermon in which he preached that the colonists had a duty to God to keep what was theirs. When he learned that King Charles was sending troops to put down the rebellion, he prayed, and the King died. I hope Pat Robertson doesn't try something like that.

 

[shereads]

Damn you, ella

Too late.

 

[destinie21]

[BNothing against Christianity, DirtMan. But some twisted things have been done to the minds of children in God's name, and I trust that if there is a God, He resents it.

. [/B]

this brings to mind mark 10:14 don't know why really

 

[Couture]

Wasn't Cotton Mather also behind the Salem witch trials?

---dr.M.

The only Rev Cotton Mather I know writes Porn stories.

Rev Cotton Mather

 

[Dirt Man]

[B

Nothing against Christianity, DirtMan. But some twisted things have been done to the minds of children in God's name, and I trust that if there is a God, He resents it.
[/B]

"Suffer the children to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of heaven made up of." Jesus Christ

 

[Icingsugar]

My family have done a fair bit of genealogy in their days, and I can't say much about any of my ancestors, but I do share a strand with one scary camper. According to my grandmother's research, her very distant cousin is a russian fellow named Yosef Vissarionvich Djvugashvili.

A.k.a Stalin.

/Ice

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I'm very distantly related to a famous Swedish politician from yesteryears. I won't say his name, because his political ideals are as far from mine as you can get.

 

[Liar]

I'm realted to the last Swede to serve a prison sentence (1 month) for critisizing the monarchy in public, before that was made legal.

He did so from the speaker's chair of our parlament. Just because.

#Liar, proud as f**k

 

[NoJo]

I'm really interested in the Protestant reformation, in Europe - and the counter-reformation. I've written a screenplay, which I'm taking over to the U.S. to try get get developed; it's a true story about a 16th century scientist whose mother was tried as a witch. When you see those bible-thumping Lutherans in the context of the Catholic Holy Roman Empire, you start to appreciate how radical and progressive they were.

They remind me of the Essenes, the grass-root Rabbis who denounced worldy posessions, and preached against the laxity of the corrupt ruling Saduccee priesthood.

The association of sex and sin comes, I think, from my own religion, which pretty much started the whole guilt and personal repsonisbility thing, by having an invisible god you weren't allowed to make images of -- you had to carry Him inside you.

I saw a TV program last night called "Women who kill"; one women was coerced by her deeply religious lover into murdering his wife. He used the bible a lot to justify the affair, and the murder. She claimed diminished repsonsibility, but didn't get away with it.

 

[Guest]

One of my distant ancestors is Robert the Bruce. He'd whoop anyone's ass.

Yes, it's true! I have all the documentation. Well, I do have a very large, very old, handwritten family tree.

BTW, in my opinion, the person who said that us Brits are sexually repressed wasn't representing the majority, or speaking for most of us. I run around the streets naked, when the mood takes me.

Seriously, though, we're not. We are very liberal, open minded and accepting. We don't bat an eyelid at men's bits dangling all over the telly screen, let alone a woman's tit.

Lou

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I'm Tiny Tim's illegitimate son.

---dr.M.

 

[NoJo]

I run around the streets naked, when the mood takes me.

Ahh, so it was you on the news...

 

[A7inchPhildo]

I'm Tiny Tim's illegitimate son.

---dr.M.

Dr.M no wonder you can be such a bastard?

Léopoldine-Francoise-Thérèse-Joséphine-Lucie Marie-Louise in 1810
Child: François Charles Joseph Napoleon (Napoleon II)


Not feeling for the ministers daughter, my blood line comes from the little Emperor.

I don't have to live by preaching, but what is worse preaching you can ignore or height that is genetic.

She will learn by the "Gazette from Piedmont", in July 1821, which she was widowed since May 5. She will write 19 to her friend her friend Victoire, the girl of the countess of Colloredo: "I acknowledge that I was extremely struck by it. Though I never had sharp feeling of any kind for him, I then to forget that he is the father of my son, and that far from maltreating me as the world believes it, he always has testifies all the regards to me, only thing which one can wish in a marriage of policy. I of have thus be very afflicted and though one must be happy that it finished its unhappy existence in a Christian way, I would have however wished to him still many years of happiness and life, provided that it were far from me ".
~Marie-Louise

Marie-Louise will marry the count de Neipperg four months later. She will give him two wire before this one does not disappear in its turn. Marie-Louise will marry the count de Bombelles in 1834.

Having multiple partners seems to be a family trait from way back!