multiple translations

[Senna Jawa]

I am inviting you to write variations on the theme of the poem below.

Following Iwo Gajda's invitation, I used to edit the first two poetic anthologies on RedFrog. One of them was Moonglasses. It included multiple translations of two poems by Boleslaw Lesmian, and double translations of poems by some other authors. Analyzing multiple translations is an attractive way to learn about poetry (and comparing the originals with the translations is still more instructive). Unfortunately, I lost those anthologies when RedFrog vanished one day.

Anyway, Marek Lugowski honored me in the past several times by translating some of my short poems. I gave one example in the 9-11-01 thread. Here is another. Once again I am providing both his and mine translation. Furthermore, this time I will present the original too. The reason? Most of the time an English text is shorter by about 12 percent than the same text in other European languages. But in poetry you never know.


            *     *    *


        Ryczaly noca tramwaje
        Pedzily przeciwnym torem
        A mnie nieprzespane noce
        Walily w glowe mlotem


H.Warszawa
from early 60-ies


        the open eyes night
        ------------------------------------------------------------

        brayed the trams, cried the trams, bleating trams
        hurled the trams, this-way that-way racing trams
        and my nights o my unslept nights o my unkepmt kept awake
        nights pounded, pounded the steel-mill iron of my head


Wlodzimierz Holsztynski
translation: Marek Lugowski



                the open eyes nights
                --------------------

        the streetcars were crying all night
        they raced on the opposite track
        the blacksmith from Open Eyes Nights
        was hitting my head with a hammer


Wlodzimierz Holsztynski
(transl. by the author)

 

[TheDR4KE]

Very nice.

I like Marek Lugowski's translation, particularly the rhythm of it that pounds the idea of a tram into your head. I wish I spoke Polish (which I'm assuming that is) so I could properly read the original. I should try my hand at some German, see how it works out length wise.

I assume yours is a more literal translation?

Is "Open Eyes Nights" a reference to something? It seems that way to me due to the capitalisation, but I don't get the reference.

Drake

 

[Senna Jawa]

Very nice.

I like Marek Lugowski's translation, particularly the rhythm of it that pounds the idea of a tram into your head. I wish I spoke Polish (which I'm assuming that is) so I could properly read the original. I should try my hand at some German, see how it works out length wise.

I assume yours is a more literal translation?

Is "Open Eyes Nights" a reference to something? It seems that way to me due to the capitalisation, but I don't get the reference.

Drake

I made up that "Open Eyes Nights" at the time of translating. Literal translation would be (no title and):



                    *    *    *

        the streetcars were crying all night
        they raced on the opposite track
        while sleepless nights
        were hitting my head with a hammer


Marek did a wonderful job. On the surface his translation looks different from the original. Just look at the repetitions which he has introduced, and extra long lines. The original, despite short 8-8-8-7 syllable lines, has both intensity and mantra like quality which Marek recreated in his own way. And despite longer lines the melodies of both texts feel similar. In particular, in the original the ending is truly hammer like strong (the last word being actual "hammer", which in Polish is a 1-syllable word "mlot", where "l" has a tilde above it, which turns it into English sound "w"). Marek got that strong finish too. He also got a substitute for my rhyme, even if the differences are pronounced (Marek has trams-trams + kept-head, while I have simple, classical abcb).

It is perhaps impossible to render the simplicity and all the effects of the original, so Marek creatively gave up on simplicity but offered in English about all other moments, even the final accent which in Polish is due to a shorter line (7 syllables versus 8 in the first three lines).

Regards,

 

[Rybka]

I agree

Very nice.

I like Marek Lugowski's translation, particularly the rhythm of it that pounds the idea of a tram into your head. I wish I spoke Polish (which I'm assuming that is) so I could properly read the original. I should try my hand at some German, see how it works out length wise.

I assume yours is a more literal translation?

Is "Open Eyes Nights" a reference to something? It seems that way to me due to the capitalisation, but I don't get the reference.

I like M. Lugowski's better also, and for the same reasons. I realize S.J., that you often go for a minimalist approach, and then claim that the reader has a responsibility to follow the author's words. However, I would suggest, like L. Wittgenstein or M. McLuhan, that meaning exists in context, and your experiences are far different from most of your readers. Thus you may assume too much at times from your audience.

That being said, I read "Open Eyes Nights" to just refer to insomnia and the thoughts it brings or that cause it. Did I miss something?

Regards,                   Rybka

 

[OT]

RE: I am inviting you to write variations on the theme of the poem below

rumbling
creaking
moaning
shrieking metal on metal
speeding trains rattle by my window and
through my sleepless night

--or--

trains rattle and scream
metal on metal
rumbling
through my sleepless night

Brief aside:
Long ago I lived by a railroad track.
Along with being generally disruptive, the intrusive clatter frightened my young son.
We named the train "Chester" and made it our friend.

O.T.
my stuff

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: RE: I am inviting you to write variations on the theme of the poem below

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp rumbling
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp creaking
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp moaning
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp shrieking metal on metal
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp speeding trains rattle by my window and
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp through my sleepless night

--or--

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp trains rattle and scream
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp metal on metal
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp rumbling
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp through my sleepless night


Brief aside:
Long ago I lived by a railroad track. Along with being generally disruptive, the intrusive clatter frightened my young son. We named the train "Chester" and made it our friend.

O.T.
my stuff

OT, include your story in your poem!!!

You found an excellent solution to your son's fear of the loud train.

Best regards,

 

[Senna Jawa]

I agree too Re: I agree

I like M. Lugowski's better also, and for the same reasons.

My translation was not seriously meant as an artistic translation, the kind you see in renditions of an author writing in a different language. My goal was to signal my poem, to provoke someone like Lugowski.

Over years I did several translations of poems by various authors including by myself. And still, I did it rarely and I have translated (into Polish or into English) only a small percentage of my poems. My poems often are very hard to translate, at least for me. When I did though I was quite happy with the results and often the translation was not inferior to the original. As the author I was able to take some liberties, I knew what was really the thing, what was important poetically. However in this case the challenge is perhaps impossible and I can only marvel that Marek got as far as he did.

I realize S.J., that you often go for a minimalist approach, and then claim that the reader has a responsibility to follow the author's words. However, I would suggest, like L. Wittgenstein or M. McLuhan, that meaning exists in context, and your experiences are far different from most of your readers. Thus you may assume too much at times from your audience.

Rybka, you chose a wrong theater for this minimalist "war". Here you are doomed. Wait for a better chance or actively select a different poem. Also, just because many poems are too verbose does not mean that I am (always) a minimalist. Finally, whether or not you mean it, on this forum you are continuing a discussion about "logarithmic...", where I was 100% right while you are now confusing the issue by diluting that previous discussion. As your L.W. & M.J.McL., I absolutely believe in the pair context-meaning, I practise it.

That being said, I read "Open Eyes Nights" to just refer to insomnia and the thoughts it brings or that cause it. Did I miss something?

Yes, insomnia, of course, perfect.

I see that you really like those     ...

BTW, "logarithmic..." didn't make it to the "Freakin' good titles!" but it is as attractive title as any. I guess "empting my balls into her blue bowl" would be more in Literotica spirit.

Regards,

 

[Senna Jawa]

Literal translation would be (no title and):



                    *    *    *

        the streetcars were crying all night
        they raced on the opposite track
        while sleepless nights
        were hitting my head with a hammer

Even more literally, there was "roaring" instead of "crying" in the first line. But it is not (necessarily) any monster roaring but perhaps rather like a cow's low. We see that it was purer in the original, and the sound was rendered better. But in English "crying" is perhaps the best one can do here using only one word.

Regards,

 

[Senna Jawa]

variations

Writing variations is a long established tradition in poetry. Chinese were fond of it. A poet to honor a poet from the past, would write a poem on the old theme, a variation. Okudzava did it too. And several other authors.

W. Szymanowicz would write on occasions a rhymed and a free vers version of his own poems, or versions of different length. I followed his example years later and did the same. I also wrote some poems, for the purpose of instruction and to satisfy own curiosity, in a "logical" version and in "imagery" style.

As with multiple translations, variations give an extra insight into poetry. Once again one can see what really counts, how much flexibility there is. One can see that sometimes seemingly major differences from the usual point of view make little difference poetically, while seemingly minor changes can make a world of difference.

Thus let's extend this thread, let's have here multiple variations of different themes/poems as well.

Regards,