Mueller Draft Report Says Trump 'Helped Putin Destabilize the United States'

[bigsly]

Click bait courtesy of Carl Bernstein:

“This is about the most serious counterintelligence people we have in the U.S. government saying, ‘Oh, my God, the president’s words and actions lead us to conclude that somehow he has become a witting, unwitting, or half-witting pawn, certainly in some regards, to Vladimir Putin,'” Bernstein explained during his appearance on Reliable Sources .

“From a point of view of strength… rather, he has done what appears to be Putin’s goals. He has helped Putin destabilize the United States and interfere in the election, no matter whether it was purposeful or not,” the journalist added. He then explained that he knew from his own high-level sources that Mueller’s report would discuss this assessment.

“And that is part of what the draft of Mueller’s report, I’m told, is to be about,” he said. “We know there has been collusion by [former national security adviser Michael] Flynn. We know there has been collusion of some sort by [Trump’s former campaign chairman Paul] Manafort. The question is, yes, what did the president know and when did he know it?”

https://www.newsweek.com/mueller-re...n-destabilize-us-watergate-journalist-1289541

What's excellent about this, if it turns out to be true, is that Mueller's evidence will have to be completely unarguable in support of such a devastating conclusion. If not, if there's no concrete evidence to unarguably support that Trump "helped Putin destabilize the United States and interfere with the election" (remember, those are literally Bernstein's words that he claims others have told him Mueller's conclusion will report), then the calamitous division clearly obvious since all this began will only increase in severity, and there will be just as many calls for Mueller's head as there will be for Trump's.

If Mueller's conclusion contains no hard, unarguable evidence of Trump's direct collusion with Putin, but simply continues the type of petty, partisan, gossipy insinuation the infamous Steel dossier introduced, then Mueller's report can objectively seen as just more propaganda to energize Democrat impeachment proceedings.

Trump is either a Russian asset or he isn't. Void unarguable facts, without concrete evidence, Mueller's opinion isn't worth any more than any other individual's.

If, though, Mueller' report proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Trump criminally colluded with Putin, then I fully support his impeachment and removal from office, him being stripped to the waist in public , his back branded with a yellow "T", and he, Ivanka, Jared and Jr., immediately cast off into permanent, immutable exile.

 

[bellisarius]

Let's start with Bernstein hasn't been right about anything since Watergate. Doesn't mean he's wrong now, but the odds aren't in his favor.

Neither Flynn nor Manafort 'colluded' with anyone in an illegal context and the fact still remains that 'collusion' isn't a crime anyway. [side bar here. Anytime one or more individuals act together to achieve a goal they are colluding. The issue is whether the goal(s) were illegal.]

If, as Bernstein suggests, the Mueller report will imply that Trump and/or any of his team unwittingly helps the Russians in their goals should be redacted from any public disclosure of said report. The inclusion of any such verbiage is purely subjective and has now place in an investigative report. The more dialog of that nature in the report, the more political the report itself.

The focus on the part of the press has been how the Russians worked to sabotage HRC's campaign however they completely ignore the fact that they were also sabotaging Trumps campaign as well. It appears that the Russians were attempting to throw our entire political system into chaos and in that regard they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

It seems to escape damn near everyone's notice that the Russians didn't have to coordinate with anyone to achieve their goals. They didn't need to talk to Trump or Clinton at all. What with all of those campaign insiders running their mouths all they had to do was listen. And with that English dude from MI5 poking around trying to dig up dirt I'm certain they saw that as a golden opportunity. I'm betting they're still sitting in Moscow tossing back shots of aquavit and laughing their asses off about that.

"And Vlad, when I told him about Trump pissing on the bed you should have seen him start scribbling." and tears of laughter run down everyone's cheeks.

Lastly Bernstein rambles on about how Trump played into Putin's hand while steadfastly ignoring the role that HRC's campaign played in the fiasco.

My biggest take away from this entire debacle is that Americans are increasingly incapable of keeping their fucking mouths shut.
'

 

[cowslinger64]

Let's start with Bernstein hasn't been right about anything since Watergate. Doesn't mean he's wrong now, but the odds aren't in his favor.

Neither Flynn nor Manafort 'colluded' with anyone in an illegal context and the fact still remains that 'collusion' isn't a crime anyway. [side bar here. Anytime one or more individuals act together to achieve a goal they are colluding. The issue is whether the goal(s) were illegal.]

If, as Bernstein suggests, the Mueller report will imply that Trump and/or any of his team unwittingly helps the Russians in their goals should be redacted from any public disclosure of said report. The inclusion of any such verbiage is purely subjective and has now place in an investigative report. The more dialog of that nature in the report, the more political the report itself.

The focus on the part of the press has been how the Russians worked to sabotage HRC's campaign however they completely ignore the fact that they were also sabotaging Trumps campaign as well. It appears that the Russians were attempting to throw our entire political system into chaos and in that regard they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

It seems to escape damn near everyone's notice that the Russians didn't have to coordinate with anyone to achieve their goals. They didn't need to talk to Trump or Clinton at all. What with all of those campaign insiders running their mouths all they had to do was listen. And with that English dude from MI5 poking around trying to dig up dirt I'm certain they saw that as a golden opportunity. I'm betting they're still sitting in Moscow tossing back shots of aquavit and laughing their asses off about that.

"And Vlad, when I told him about Trump pissing on the bed you should have seen him start scribbling." and tears of laughter run down everyone's cheeks.

Lastly Bernstein rambles on about how Trump played into Putin's hand while steadfastly ignoring the role that HRC's campaign played in the fiasco.

My biggest take away from this entire debacle is that Americans are increasingly incapable of keeping their fucking mouths shut.
'

Feel free to show in the Rosenstein letter appointing Mueller, the word collusion.

 

[Oblimo]

Neither Flynn nor Manafort 'colluded' with anyone in an illegal context and the fact still remains that 'collusion' isn't a crime anyway.

Manafort gave Trump Campaign poling data to Russian intelligence.

Anything you say about him, now and forever, is wrong.

 

[cowslinger64]

BTW...


President Trump has tweeted, "Collusion is not a crime. ..." Rudy Giuliani told Fox News, "I have been sitting here looking in the federal code trying to find collusion as a crime. ... Collusion is not a crime." Jay Sekulow told The New Yorker, "For something to be a crime, there has to be a statute that you claim is being violated. ... There is not a statute that refers to criminal collusion. There is no crime of collusion."

Having worked as a federal prosecutor for 13 years in the Clinton, Bush and Obama administrations, I can report that the President and his lawyers are wrong. Collusion is a crime. The federal criminal code says so. The federal bribery statute -- 18 U.S.C. § 201(b)(2)(B) -- makes it a federal crime for a public official to "collude" in a fraud on the United States. More specifically, the federal bribery statute expressly states that a crime is committed when a public official "directly or indirectly, corruptly demands, seeks, receives, accepts, or agrees to receive or accept anything of value ... in return for ... being influenced to ... collude in ... any fraud ... on the United States."

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines collusion as a "secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose," exactly the focus of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation. Committing fraud on the United States means to impair or obstruct the lawful functions of a government agency. The Federal Election Commission and the Department of Justice are responsible for disclosing to the American people any foreign influence in the American political system and US elections.



https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/opinions/collusion-is-a-crime-waxman/index.html

 

[bellisarius]

Manafort gave Trump Campaign poling data to Russian intelligence.

Anything you say about him, now and forever, is wrong.

And Trump should be upset about that. It maybe a firing offense but it sure as hell isn't any crime.

 

[cowslinger64]

And Trump should be upset about that. It maybe a firing offense but it sure as hell isn't any crime.

Uh huh...



https://www.justsecurity.org/62201/...eopardy-manaforts-sharing-data-russian-agent/


According to a court filing earlier this week, former 2016 Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort shared presidential campaign polling data with Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian citizen with ties to Russian intelligence. If the data Manafort shared with Kilimnik was used to materially guide spending by Russian nationals to influence the 2016 presidential election, then the Trump campaign seemingly received an “in-kind contribution” from the Russian nationals in the form of “coordinated expenditures” in violation of multiple federal campaign finance laws. A key link in the “coordination” here is the revelation of Manafort’s actions.

 

[bellisarius]

Really? Campaign finance violation?

The Penalties.

And if that's the criteria for impeachment why wasn't Clinton, Bush, and Obama impeached for the same offenses? As per the law they merely had to refund the monies and pay a fine.

WRT to the Trump campaign, did Manafort 'willfully' share the internal polling data with the Russians or was he just shooting off his mouth? And even if it was 'willful' the fine is just $11,000. Of course we could always go with the 200% rule there. I'm sure that the Russians are going to happily turn over their internal government records for a full audit so a just figure can be assessed, right?

Talk about grasping at straws.

 

[cowslinger64]

Really? Campaign finance violation?

The Penalties.

And if that's the criteria for impeachment why wasn't Clinton, Bush, and Obama impeached for the same offenses? As per the law they merely had to refund the monies and pay a fine.

WRT to the Trump campaign, did Manafort 'willfully' share the internal polling data with the Russians or was he just shooting off his mouth? And even if it was 'willful' the fine is just $11,000. Of course we could always go with the 200% rule there. I'm sure that the Russians are going to happily turn over their internal government records for a full audit so a just figure can be assessed, right?

Talk about grasping at straws.

You were wrong..again. Which is the pernt there Edith.

I'm not grasping here pawpaw.. You are.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Let's start with Bernstein hasn't been right about anything since Watergate. Doesn't mean he's wrong now, but the odds aren't in his favor.

Neither Flynn nor Manafort 'colluded' with anyone in an illegal context and the fact still remains that 'collusion' isn't a crime anyway. [side bar here. Anytime one or more individuals act together to achieve a goal they are colluding. The issue is whether the goal(s) were illegal.]

If, as Bernstein suggests, the Mueller report will imply that Trump and/or any of his team unwittingly helps the Russians in their goals should be redacted from any public disclosure of said report. The inclusion of any such verbiage is purely subjective and has now place in an investigative report. The more dialog of that nature in the report, the more political the report itself.

The focus on the part of the press has been how the Russians worked to sabotage HRC's campaign however they completely ignore the fact that they were also sabotaging Trumps campaign as well. It appears that the Russians were attempting to throw our entire political system into chaos and in that regard they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

It seems to escape damn near everyone's notice that the Russians didn't have to coordinate with anyone to achieve their goals. They didn't need to talk to Trump or Clinton at all. What with all of those campaign insiders running their mouths all they had to do was listen. And with that English dude from MI5 poking around trying to dig up dirt I'm certain they saw that as a golden opportunity. I'm betting they're still sitting in Moscow tossing back shots of aquavit and laughing their asses off about that.

"And Vlad, when I told him about Trump pissing on the bed you should have seen him start scribbling." and tears of laughter run down everyone's cheeks.

Lastly Bernstein rambles on about how Trump played into Putin's hand while steadfastly ignoring the role that HRC's campaign played in the fiasco.

My biggest take away from this entire debacle is that Americans are increasingly incapable of keeping their fucking mouths shut.
'

Mueller knows that nothing illegal occurred here. He also knows that he cannot end the investigation because then his people at DOJ, the FBI and the intelligence community would no longer be able to hide behind the claim of "ongoing investigation." This means that he has to keep the investigation going until 2020 when everyone if the national bureaucracy and DC press corps just knows that they can bring the Democrats back into power, all three branches.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Manafort gave Trump Campaign poling data to Russian intelligence.

Anything you say about him, now and forever, is wrong.

You have concrete proof of this?