Motorcycle Helmets

[riff]

I was listening to the Ken Handlin show on the radio and the topic was helmet laws (I detest most of the crap he and the rest of the conservative media drivel, but I like to listen because I want to badly to understand how conservatives think)

Should motorcycle riders be required by law to wear helmets?

First I should say that I think people who do not wear helmets are idiots.

May I ask a secondary question: why would a state with a mandatory seatbelt law permit riding without a helmet? Does this make sense?

And lemme say this! Hear me out people.

A helmet is no guarantee that you will survive an accident, just as seat belts are not- but it doesn't take an idiot to understand that the risks of death or injury are reduced by both.

And now my sermon: you may think that when you ride without a helmet that it is your own business. That if your skull gets crushed, it is your skull that gets crushed and that is the end of it. If you die, you die. People will grieve and then get on with life. The problem is when you survive.

When you survive- you are the survivor. You have survived your own stupidity. But we are the victims. We are your parents, your brothers and sisters, your friends. We get to live with the outcome of your poor judgement.

I speak from experience. My brother is the survivor of a head injury (his was a car wreck). Not even seat belts helped him....

But when I think of how fragile your skull is.... and how vulnerable this skull is as it rides a balancing act across the highway at speeds of... and you are so difficult to see at times!

I know what my brother's head injury did to him and to our family. He is a brain damaged moron now (I still love him- and I am so glad he is alive- but it's true). He was in a coma for five months while we watched a 25 year old 175 lb. stud wither to 110. He looked like an Aushwitz survivor. I remember praying he would die and then feeling guilty (it happens to almost everyone in that position). And my parents! It is one thing to be a brother- but my god... my parents....

And they are getting older... one day the responsibility of his care will fall upon the shoulders of me and my sisters. And what will we do? Store him in a home and pretend he isn't our brother? Huh?

You get the picture.

Maybe the helmet would not have saved them, but I wonder how many people are in the position of me and my sisters and parents because someone decided not to wear a helmet. Something so small and so simple....

You pay the price, right? Idiot.

Yeah, I support mandatory helmet laws.

People who ride without a helmet are idiots

 

[Thumper]

I agree.

At first I thought those who would ride without a helmet had no brain to protect anyway.

To those who think it looks "cool" riding down the road with the wind in their hair....imagine how cool it looks to drool on yourself while a nurse tries to feed strained carrots to you. Yep. Real hot.

I laid my bike down 4 years ago while I was on my way to pick my daughter up not two miles from home. The road has a 90 degree turn and I ran into a streak of motor oil or something. I ended up in the ditch and the bike stayed in the road after sliding about 30 feet. I was wearing my helmet and a sleeveless t shirt and shorts (I know, stupid, but road rash seldom kills). My helmet had a nice little scrape on the side and it made me think what my skull would have looked like with a chunk out of it...not to mention the damage to my beautiful hair The horrors!

In 1991 I lost a friend in a MC crash. An elderly woman turned left in front of his oncoming MC (Goldwing). He died of massive head injuries after his wife had to give permission to end life support. He also left two little girls. All to look cool.

 

[Comshaw]

Over the last 34 years I've covered about 3000,000 miles on bikes and have had my share of road-rash.
I bought my first bike, a 305 Honda Super Hawk scrambler, in March 1967. I rode up the street 4 blocks turned a corner and promptly ended up on my face on the pavement courtesy of a pile of sand left over from the winter. I was lucky. I had on a mid 50's aluminum canvas web helmet. Got a blackeye, but nothing else.
In April 1977 I hit a car head on going into a 90 degree corner. It was entirely my fault. I was playing roadracer and was on the wrong side of the white line. The car was doing 35 and I was doing 50. I sailed over the top of it, leaving a golfball sized piece of my leg hanging on the fender, landed on the pavement on my head and slid 100 yards or so. After I got out of the hospital I took a close look at the helmet I was wearing. At about the 10:00 O'clock position the fiberglass shell was broken through to the foam insulation. Saved my brain case it did.
In November 1994 I t-boned a deer on my XS1100. I was doing 45 down the country road we live on when all of a sudden there it was. The damn thing came out of no where. I hit the deer, the forks folded up under the bike, it stopped, I didn't. All I could think of as my ass left the seat and I headed for the ground was,"THIS IS GUNNA' HURT!" I hit the pavement on my left side and my head came down hard enough to knock a chunk out of my plastic resin helmet. Luckily all I got was a bruise from my waist to my knee on the left side of my body.
Twice a helmet saved my melon. I would never ride without a helmet and strongly believe no one should get astride a bike without one. I should be an ardent supporter of the helmet law, right?
WRONG!
Why?

I believe that helmets should be worn while riding, they do save lives and keep those of us who have gone down from some very nasty head injuries. And those who choose not to wear one are idiots in my book. But should we really require someone to wear one if they do not desire to do so?
To my mind, the helmet law isn't about rider safety, it's about freedom of choice. I believe that we should not try to prohibit someone from making a stupid choice. Try to educate them, yes. Try to convince them it isn't very smart, yes. But we should not interfere with a persons freedom to choose.

There is a line from "The American President" that sums it up. I think it goes like this:
"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man who's words make your blood boil standing center stage
advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a life time opposing at the top of yours."

The same goes for any freedom. You want to be free to pursue those things you love to do? Then you have to defend the right of others to do the same, NO MATTER HOW STUPID IT SEEMS, as long as it endangers no one else.
Does it hurt others? Yes, emotionally it does. But that is the price we pay for being human. As with other things and other concepts, I cannot but allow those around me to live as they will. I can talk, conjole, scream and yell about what they are doing, try to convince them they are wrong, but I absolutely refuse to try and live their lives for them, or to legislate their behavior. I expect in return, the same respect for my right to choose.
I've heard all the arguments,"It costs us to keep them in the hospital when they have a head injury", "it costs us to maintain life support for an injured rider not wearing a helmet". To date I've not seen any statistics to explain how many would be vegetables and how many would die after sustaining head injuries in a helmetless motorcycle accident. I think most would be dead. The very small percentage of riders in our country(.6 per 100,000 population) makes for a very small amount that get injured anyway. So the "It will cost us" argument doesn't stand up.

I understand your pain, but you cannot require everyone to live by your rules just to alleviate it. There is always a price for anything. Freedom is never really free. We pay for it one way or another. For my money, I'd rather give those who wish to make a stupid choice the option to do so. In so doing we will be granting ourselves a bit more freedom.

Comshaw

 

[Derya]

Helmets Are Necessary

I not sure which states do not have mandatory helmet laws, but having been to Myrtle Beach Bike Week numerous times it amazes me how a state and/or city that does not allow alcohol sales on Sundays or tatooing in the entire state can allow people to ride without helmets. And that's on the highway or anywhere, not that the pavement is any softer at 10 MPH vs. 65 MPH. And people who otherwise observe the practice of wearing a helmet all of the sudden don't. I don't have a bike and this past spring while at Bike Week I made the "mistake" of riding all night with someone without a helmet on. I am fortunate that I in no way had to "pay" for this mistake, but I could hardly relax and enjoy myself because I kept thinking what if this one time was the wrong time to ride without a helmet. That was just plain fucking stupid on my part.

I too know someone who's life has been virtually destroyed by a brain stem injury and this was from a vehicle accident, not their fault. All that could be in place to keep this person and their family from suffering was, but what a horrendous tragedy on top of the suffering victims of such accidents have to live with, if you have to live with knowing your own actions could've changed the course of your life.

I thank God, that He's never tested me and I hope He doesn't. Helmets are necessary.

 

[TN_Vixen]

riffy.. riffster.. the riffmeister.. the riffenator... (*g)

umm.. *ahem* ok.

helmets. I've never been one to ride motorcycles.. as a matter of fact my neighbors growing up had them which my mother outlawed me riding (of course.. smart lady my mother) but, of course.. like children are wont to be, I tried it and attempted to mow down the bushes of my neighbors house and forever felt threatned by 2 wheeled motorized cycles. hmph.

Years later.. ok then it was just 2 yrs ago.... I chanced a ride on a Harley owner's bike outside a night club. Yeah, I'd had too much Jack, but hey! I thought wtf? I hiked up my miniskirt and straddled the bike hugging onto this total long-haired stranger for a ride 'round the parking lot. Did he limit our ride to the parking lot of the club? Um.... no. Were we caught by the Po - lice? um... yeah.. was I given a citation for rideing without a helmet, ... um, yeah... so...

In essence I agree.. albeit without the theatrics and without bloodshed and mayhem. I agree. Wear a fucking helmet people.

and.. um, don't get on a stranger's harley ouside a night club who promises to *only* ride you 'round the parking lot, ok? hehe

 

[Guest]

if a biker crashes chances are all a helmet might do is keep him alive and sucking up tax dollars. Would I wear one? yes... but if they choose not to, than fuck em. we have enough laws as it is.

 

[Laurel]

This treads into tricky territory...I completely and totally believe that it's in everyone's best interest to wear a helmet. I think that's a hard point to debate. head + asphault = goulash. No question there.

The real dilemma is whether the government has the right to tell you what you can do with your body. I don't believe it does. I do believe it has the right to keep you from hurting other bodies, but as far as what you choose to do to yourself, well, that's your decision. For this reason, I'm pro-choice on the abortion issue though I doubt I'd have one if the choice came up. I'm also for the legalization of marijuana and other drugs even though I don't smoke and rarely drink.

Is it smart to ride without a helmet? Is it smart to have unprotected sex and end up with an unwanted pregnancy? Is it smart to sit around and do nothing but smoke pot or drink beer all day? Probably not on all counts, but the implications of government making those choices for us are scary. What next - we can't eat fatty foods because they're bad for us? We can't look at porn because it's 'immoral'? We can't read Huck Finn or J.D. Salinger because the ideas they present are 'unhealthy'? It sounds silly, but that's not completely unrealistic.

Freedom means being free to make mistakes and be stupid, so long as your stupidity doesn't hurt others directly. If I rode a motorcycle, you can bet your ass I'd wear a helmet. But I can't advocate mandatory helmet laws without being inconsistent in my beliefs. So there.

 

[CreamyLady]

If I might chime in . . .

My ex-husband, not known for his brilliance, wore a helmet the day he and his bike were sandwiched between a car and truck. He seldom wore the helmet, except that he was going to visit his mother and she gave him major grief if he didn't.

His left leg was history; it ended up being a mid-thigh amputation. His body was mangled pretty badly. However, the helmet saved his brain; actually, it appeared to improve slightly.

The thing about helmets, and why the government feels the need to mandate their use, is that the cost of rehabilitation for people with major head injuries is ruinous. There is no guarantee that any of them will be able to hold down a job, or do the simplest tasks. Think of the caretaking cost, as well as the drain on public resources. Not everyone has long-term disability coverage.

There is a definite harm to the public monies, and that is what prompts the concern. It's cold, yes; however -- and this IS cold -- why should the public maintain a fool forever?

 

[Laurel]

The same can be said of alcohol, of tobacco, of fatty foods. Should these be illegal? Should we mandate that all citizens exercise so many hours a day, so as to decrease their chances of becoming unhealthy and thus a burden on the system? Imagine if we did that...Heart disease is one of the biggest killers of Americans. Imagine all the money we could save by forcing everyone to eat 'right', to exercise, to abstain from cigarettes and alcohol. We could instill a mandatory curfew, to make sure that everyone gets the 'right' amount of sleep.

There are many ways we could save money. The question is whether or not individual liberty is for sale. I hope it's not.

 

[CreamyLady]

I know. Nothing is absolute or makes sense. However, people with heart disease aren't -- usually -- the drain on public resources that those with permanent head injuries are. I was trying to put forth the rationale behind the helmet laws.

Seriously, putting on a helmet is a very minor thing compared with quitting smoking, or a complete revamping of lifestyle. One need not wear the helmet forever; only while one is on the bike.

I would love it if everyone followed "the rules;" however, Jim Fixx dropped dead of a heart attack, for God's sake. If running for fitness can't prevent a heart attack, but wearing a helmet can prevent a major brain injury, I can't quite see how they correlate. Or maybe I'm just tired.

 

[shit4brains]

smoke pot and drink beer all day

Those were the days-

Smoke pot, drink beer, get loaded, hop on my Sportster without a helmet-

Some of the reasons I have this nickname-

I'm a fucking lucky idiot to be alive today

 

[Laurel]

Originally posted by CreamyLady I know. Nothing is absolute or makes sense. However, people with heart disease aren't -- usually -- the drain on public resources that those with permanent head injuries are. I was trying to put forth the rationale behind the helmet laws.

Seriously, putting on a helmet is a very minor thing compared with quitting smoking, or a complete revamping of lifestyle. One need not wear the helmet forever; only while one is on the bike.

I would love it if everyone followed "the rules;" however, Jim Fixx dropped dead of a heart attack, for God's sake. If running for fitness can't prevent a heart attack, but wearing a helmet can prevent a major brain injury, I can't quite see how they correlate. Or maybe I'm just tired.

LOL! I'm with ya...missed my nap today.

True, heart disease kills very healthy people. There are also helmet-wearing riders that have been killed in accidents by severe trauma to the body. And there are 'lucky idiots' (hehe) who've ridden for years with the wind in their hair without so much as a scratch. A helmet can save you from dying on a cycle as much as exercise and eating right can prevent heart disease. So much of both is luck.

I'm not against helmet and safety belt laws so much as I'm against the reasoning behind them. It seems obvious to me that helmets are safe and damn it, everyone should have them. It also seems very obvious to some people that alcohol is 'bad' and damnit, no one should have it. And alcohol does kill, just as going bare-headed on a motorcycle can kill.

I dunno. I'm getting all fuzzy. Gonna go finish tonight's update, have a piece of pie, and watch some late-night IFC before bed.

 

[Jake2001]

These issues always provide for good debate but it is completely subjective. The moral issues and legalities will always be simply a matter of opinion. Does alcohol kill people or do people who drink too much and drive kill people? Where do you draw the line? Personally, I think people who ride motorcycles are crazy, never mind the helmet issue. I have the scares to prove it too.

Laurel, what is IFC before going to bed? *S*

 

[Nobody Special's wife]

There are alot of people that are stupid where bikes are concerned...I have had a family member die because she like to ride her bike she wore a helmet but she was drunk ...she ended up breaking her neck and dieing because of this stupidedy .....Not all people can learn from there mistakes


THE WIFE

 

[Thumper]

Let freedom ring..

I am actually ambivalent about helmet laws. Can we opt out of paying for the long term care.


Number one reason I wear a helmet.

Bugs.

They taste horrid and sting like hell...also had a rock ricochet of the faceplate once...

As for tobacco, we can at least make up some of the cost for the medical care that is borne by the guvmint with cigarette taxes. Legalize drugs and tax the shit out of it to pay for the rehab. Woud save money on incarceration and fighting the "drug war" too. Twinkie tax? Yes obesity kills but eating fatty foods doesn't necessarily lead to obesity. Obesity is a result of how you eat not what you eat...how do you tax a bad diet regimen? I shall ponder this.

 

[Sonora]

I'm all for helmets being required. It's not that the MC riders shouldn't have the right to be stupid the rest of their lives after splitting their heads open on the pavement. It's about my rights.

Think about what happens when one of these riders crashes. Ambulances, police, fire/rescue dept. all rush to the scene. Drivers must now try to lear the way for the emergency crews. (Have you ever watched drivers when emergency personnel are trying to get through. They do the dumbest things.) Then they use a pooper-scooper to pick up what they can find of the grey matter and rush it all back to the hosp. (Again, people trying to get out of the way.) Once those emergency personnel are dispatched and hit the road, MY rights to the safest highway possible are jeopardized. When MY safty is compromised I tend to get a little grouchy.

 

[riff]

To those of you want the freedom to be stupid:

Why do we have speed limits? The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. What place has the govenment to tell me that I cannot drive 75 mph? It's not like my high speed will deteriorate the pavement.

Why can't I drink myself falling down drunk and drive home if I want?

Are these foolish laws?

I think the reason for the speed limit law on my street has something to do about the protection of life and property. To protect my life and the lives of others.

The point of my post is that when you ride without a helmet, you are taking the lives of others into your hands and asking them to live with the consequences of your poor judgement. And these people are innocent- they didn't make the decision to ride without a helmet, but they are living with the sometimes painful result.

Visit a meeting of a head injury support group sometime and see how these peoples lives get turned upside down.

You are talking about the abstract concept of "your rights." I am talking about the concrete reality of human suffering.

What is wrong with a law that is meant to protect innocent people from the stupidity of others?

 

[Nogard]

How about the poor driver that has to live with the memory of some young persons brains all over the windshield. Not likely to forget that in a hurry. What about their rights

 

[Laurel]

Re: Let freedom ring..

Twinkie tax? Yes obesity kills but eating fatty foods doesn't necessarily lead to obesity. Obesity is a result of how you eat not what you eat...how do you tax a bad diet regimen? I shall ponder this.

The same way you tax alcoholics and nicotine addicts - you tax the foods themselves. Of course, I'm not advocating that - I'm simply saying that there's no difference between the two. As far as obesity killing...The same can be said of drugs or alcohol. Alcoholism kills, but drinking alcohol does not necessarily make one an alcoholic. The difference between a social drinker and an alcoholic is not what they drink, but how much they drink.

You can drink all of your life and be healthy. You can ride without a helmet all your life and never crash. If you make mandatory helmet laws on the idea that you COULD die in a crash, why not make alcohol illegal because you COULD ruin your liver?

Many, many more people die of heart disease and other illnesses related to poor diet and exercise. The rationale behind helmet laws, according to y'all, is that victims of motorcycle accidents cost us as taxpayers money. So, the government has the right to curtail any behavior that cuts into our collective budget. (Last time I checked, in the USA we do not have socialized medicine. The patient & their insurance company are responsible for their own hospital bills, and the police and ambulances that come to the scene are paid out of taxes that the victim has, in part, paid. So I'm not sure how these accidents are a huge strain on the federal budget, but I could be missing something. It's happened before, lots of times.) I don't know the stats, but I'd have to think that many, many more people die every year from eating poorly and not exercising than do from eating shit on their cycles without a helmet. By your argument, the government should have the right to enforce mandatory diet and exercise laws - to illegalize tobacco, alcohol, refined sugar...after all, they cost US money, right?

I know you think that I'm being silly, and I am to some degree, but I'm also trying to make a point. Hold those who don't wear helmets financially accountable for their injuries. To my knowledge, that's how it's done anyway. (And please, no anecdotal stories about 'my friend's uncle's mom's next-door-neigbor told me about an illegal alien who crashed on his motorcycle and was in the hospital for 20 days without insurance and WE THE U.S. TAXPAYERS paid for it blah blah blah...') Make minors wear helmets. But let adults make their own decision. The government should keep the peace and encourage prosperity. It should NOT unduly interfere with the lives of its people.

Enough babbling from me. I'm gonna go post some amateur pics.

P.S. Jake - IFC = Independent Film Channel, which for some reason was showing the same movie as Showtime the other night. Independent my eyeball...

 

[Laurel]

Why do we have speed limits? The speed limit on my street is 25 mph. What place has the govenment to tell me that I cannot drive 75 mph? It's not like my high speed will deteriorate the pavement.

Why can't I drink myself falling down drunk and drive home if I want?

Are these foolish laws?

I think the reason for the speed limit law on my street has something to do about the protection of life and property. To protect my life and the lives of others.

Speed limits and drunk driving laws are designed to keep you from harming others. If the government's main concern is to keep you from harming yourself, then why are substances like alcohol and nicotine legal?

The point of my post is that when you ride without a helmet, you are taking the lives of others into your hands and asking them to live with the consequences of your poor judgement. And these people are innocent- they didn't make the decision to ride without a helmet, but they are living with the sometimes painful result.

Visit a meeting of a head injury support group sometime and see how these peoples lives get turned upside down.

I'm sure it's terrible. However, legislation should not be based in emotion, but logic and reason. My father's an alcoholic. If you think that HIS personal choice to drink didn't affect those around him, then you're kidding yourself. It had as much of a negative effect on my life as if he'd sustained a serious head injury, if not more so. In all honesty, I wish he had. Yes, it was that bad.

Your argument is that the possible indirect effects of me not wearing a helmet - the sadness my death would cause my family - is enough for the government to force me to wear one. By your reasoning, we ought to illegalize alcohol - not because of the effect it may have on ME, but because of the indirect effect it MAY have on those around me. We should also illegalize smoking for the same reason. And since MY dying would be traumatic to those around me - and it's their rights that count above mine - then ANYTHING that puts my life at risk or is deemed 'unhealthy' should be illegal. Am I understanding you correctly?

You are talking about the abstract concept of "your rights." I am talking about the concrete reality of human suffering.

That logic is reminiscent of anti-choice'rs I meet who say, "You're talking about some abstract concept of 'personal choice'. I'm talking about a baby being sucked through a straw into a trash can." It's a stirring emotional statement, but it's not a rational argument, nor is it based in fact.

What is wrong with a law that is meant to protect innocent people from the stupidity of others?

How does my choosing not to wear a helmet cause DIRECT and SERIOUS harm to others? And if the INDIRECT EFFECTS of an action are to be considered, how many things that you currently enjoy would be legal?

 

[Feisty1]

I'm wondering if anyone reading this thread rides without a helmet...and more importantly why? Is there justification for doing so?

 

[Thumper]

Your eyeballs declared independence?

Laurel...

Difference between Alcohol, Tobacco and twinkies..

Twinkies are a food (not a nutritious one granted) and you CAN'T tax food. As I said twinkies and their ilk aren't dangerous in and of themselves (tobacco is and alcohol to a lesser degree and both are unnecessary to survival) just in the amounts eaten. If you were stranded in a snowstorm and all you had was a small bag of food it would be best if it was something like twinkies i.e. high calorie. Food is an absolute necessity for surviving and taxing it places an undue burden on the poor. Even if it is crappy food, it is food nonetheless. If all ya had was two dollars a day to eat on I would say go for the Zingers (you get three in the pack)

One caveat...never, NEVER eat twinkies and ride a motorcycle at the same time...Messy, very messy! Especially if the face shield slams down. Traumatic twinkie severance.

*shudders*

 

[Laurel]

Re: Your eyeballs declared independence?

Twinkies are a food (not a nutritious one granted) and you CAN'T tax food. As I said twinkies and their ilk aren't dangerous in and of themselves (tobacco is and alcohol to a lesser degree and both are unnecessary to survival) just in the amounts eaten.

Okay, forget Twinkies. (I know it's hard...they're so golden and spongy...) Let's take alcohol. Should it be illegal, because it has lethal potential? How about guns? How about...fuck, I dunno. I'm pooped. lol.

If you were stranded in a snowstorm and all you had was If all ya had was two dollars a day to eat on I would say go for the Zingers (you get three in the pack)

Plus the've got that great colored coconut outside. I'd take Zingers over Twinkies any day. But Kit-Kats...there's pure snacking satisfaction.

One caveat...never, NEVER eat twinkies and ride a motorcycle at the same time...Messy, very messy! Especially if the face shield slams down. Traumatic twinkie severance.

*shudders*

LOL! So the moral of the story is If You're Going to Eat a Twinkie on your Motorcycle, Don't Wear a Helmet.

Fiesty - I would never have to worry about helmets because motorcycles scare the crap our of me. If I were somehow conned into riding one, I would definitely wear a helmet, and full body armor. No, I can't think of a reason why not to wear one. But that's beside the point, for the reasons I've already stated.

I'm done. Gonna go update the site. Flame away, kiddies!

 

[Thumper]

Then again...

I have in the past used the sexist term "twinkie" in reference to certain females...

So....

I would not be entirely averse to "eating" a twinkie(Cheyenne, April, Isabella, uh Laurel...*ducks wrench thrown by Manu* and many others here) that happened to be reclining on my motorcycle seat. Of course I would have to remove my helmet to do so and I would be in danger of having my skull crushed in the ensuing orgasmic spasms.

Uh oh...guess I should stopped the bike and gotten off the highway first...

*in the hospital*

DOC: I'm sorry, we have done everything we could. He is completely brain dead. We did get the twinkie off his face though. She'll be OK.

NEXT OF KIN: Brain dead? Are you sure doctor? How do you know?

DOC: He keeps trying to dial the Rush Limbaugh Show and is mumbling "mega dittos" all the time.

NOK: Turn off the life support then...and can you wipe that silly grin off his face...?

 

[Laurel]

Re: Then again...

DOC: I'm sorry, we have done everything we could. He is completely brain dead. We did get the twinkie off his face though. She'll be OK.

NEXT OF KIN: Brain dead? Are you sure doctor? How do you know?

DOC: He keeps trying to dial the Rush Limbaugh Show and is mumbling "mega dittos" all the time.

NOK: Turn off the life support then...and can you wipe that silly grin off his face...?

LMMFAO!