Most Evil

[lesbiaphrodite]

There is a show that appears regularly on the ID (Investigation Discovery) channel called "Most Evil." The premise is simple enough: An FBI profiler has come up with an inventory and scale that he uses to classify the world's most violent criminals as falling into different categories/levels of evil. In each show, he focuses on two or three different criminals, their lives, their crimes and classifies them, then discusses why he does so. My questions are: Are there different gradations of evil? Do you believe in evil as a concept? Explain?

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

There is a show that appears regularly on the ID (Investigation Discovery) channel called "Most Evil." The premise is simple enough: An FBI profiler has come up with an inventory and scale that he uses to classify the world's most violent criminals as falling into different categories/levels of evil. In each show, he focuses on two or three different criminals, their lives, their crimes and classifies them, then discusses why he does so. My questions are: Are there different gradations of evil? Do you believe in evil as a concept? Explain?

I think of evil the same way I think of cold and dark. There is gradation, but they are more the absence of the positive. Evil is not a force of itself it is just further and further away from any good in their life. Not to condone or excuse evil people and their deeds because they choose to move further and further from good.

As much as I enjoy quantifying every thing I can, good and evil escape me. I can see good people, and I can see evil. I gravitate to the good as much as I can.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

A while back I started a similar thread:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=254439

If I remember, there was some very good stuff in here.


and I watch that show too. Its goooood.

 

[rgraham666]

A while back I started a similar thread:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=254439

If I remember, there was some very good stuff in here.


and I watch that show too. Its goooood.

So many posts by Colleen in that one.

I miss her.

 

[cloudy]

So many posts by Colleen in that one.

I miss her.

We all do, sweets.

 

[rgraham666]

We all do, sweets.

She's free of pain now.

And I'm sure we'll see her again.

Odd thing for an agnostic to say.

 

[Guest]

So many posts by Colleen in that one.

I miss her.

We all do, sweets.

Yes.

She's free of pain now.

And I'm sure we'll see her again.

Odd thing for an agnostic to say.

Indeed it is, Rob.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Evil? Oh! Sure! There's plenty of evil.

I have a book of childrens' autopsy photos, and they arent pleasant to see. The nature of their deaths is what is so evil. Their murderers extracted as much pain and fear as possible from them. I think that defines 'evil.' It wasnt revenge. It was for enjoyment.

 

[Belegon]

I believe there is evil in the world and in people... including in me. But I also believe that in most cases, the good outweighs it.

Unfortunately, in some people the evil outweighs the good, either at times or (in the truly scary ones) commonly.

 

[TE999]

My grandfather had a saying that he used on occasion that so and so 'needed killin'.

IMHO rapists, child molesters and torturers, wife beaters, sadists and murderers fall in that category.

Evil assumes many forms, but perhaps the most pernicious is that which is committed under the guise of being 'good for you' in some way. Being robbed of your freedom, ambition, self-esteem and dignity is pure evil.

The terminology can't be quantified either. Rationalized on the part of the perpetrator, definitely. Justified, never.

 

[rgraham666]

My grandfather had a saying that he used on occasion that so and so 'needed killin'.

IMHO rapists, child molesters and torturers, wife beaters, sadists and murderers fall in that category.

Evil assumes many forms, but perhaps the most pernicious is that which is committed under the guise of being 'good for you' in some way. Being robbed of your freedom, ambition, self-esteem and dignity is pure evil.

The terminology can't be quantified either. Rationalized on the part of the perpetrator, definitely. Justified, never.

Your grandfather's opinion is one that quickly leads to a person doing evil. They are taking on the power of God, deciding who lives and who dies. We aren't God and the second we believe we are we are doing evil.

And, in my experience, people who decide other people 'need killin'' are just people looking for an excuse to kill somebody.

 

[Liar]

I think that in order to be evil, you have to understand that you are.

If you know that it's bad to hurt people, but do it anyway, for sports, you're evil.

If you do it because the smurfs in your head are forcing you to, you're sick.

If you do it because "they deserve it", you're an idiot.

 

[Emerald_Dragon]

I think that in order to be evil, you have to understand that you are.

If you know that it's bad to hurt people, but do it anyway, for sports, you're evil.

If you do it because the smurfs in your head are forcing you to, you're sick.

If you do it because "they deserve it", you're an idiot.

So states that practice capitol punishment are idiots? Not to pick a fight or anything. Or are you talking just about people making statements like that?

 

[rgraham666]

You want to know what evil looks like?

Here you go.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

People who oppose capital punishment generally believe all punishment is evil, and attribute crime to society failing the poor oppressed criminal.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

I'm not sure what I believe. I know I have a little angel on my left shoulder and little devil on the right. Most days, the angel leads me. Some days, the little devil comes out. I dunno.

But seriously, in the wider scheme, I believe there are those who just have no mortal conscience. They could care less who they hurt or how much. I'm not sure if that is what one would define as evil. I guess my Shakespeare professor from college summed it up best when he said that some people, like Iago for instance, are simply 'motivelessly malignant.'

 

[ABSTRUSE]

So many posts by Colleen in that one.

I miss her.

Sorry Rob, didn't mean to stir up sadness.
I miss her too.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

I offer a small excerpt from a very gifted scholar who presented a paper on the subject.

Sandrine Berges
Department of International Relations, Bilkent University
E-Mail the Author

Can we Blame Character?

Is there such a thing as evil character? Many philosophers have cast doubt on the idea. I will argue that their claims are misguided. My thesis is twofold. First, I claim that we have reason to believe, with Aristotle, that there are such things as evil character traits which are at least partly to blame for certain criminal acts. This has implications for the concepts of responsibility and punishment, that is, it follows that there are no a priori difficulties in applying these concepts.

Secondly, it seems that evil character traits are typically not as firm as good character traits, because firm character traits require a certain conscious habituation provided both by the individual and those responsible for her education. If evil character is not typically firm, it follows that criminal behaviour cannot reliably be explained or predicted in terms of character. This also has consequences for the application of the concepts of responsibility and punishment, namely, it becomes difficult to justify a choice between reformative, deterrent, or retributive forms of punishment.

I will defend the first part of my thesis against two objections. The first is Socrates' argument that it is impossible to do evil knowingly. Evil is thus the result of ignorance, not bad character. I will show that this claim is implausible on a priori grounds, if we accept the notions of character trait and character development.

The second objection is the situationist social psychologist thesis that circumstances, not character, are to blame for criminal behaviour. I will reply to the situationists by deploying the second part of my thesis: evil character traits are typically less firm (albeit more prevalent) than good ones. I will give reasons for this thesis based on the Aristotelian theory of habituation and character development.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Do we break down Evil as a manifestation of thought or culture? Is it learned or inside us?
Is it brought on by physical injury or defect?
Is it developed through religious practice?

Connection of Mind, Body and Spirit. Do the play roles in establishing what is Evil?

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Do we break down Evil as a manifestation of thought or culture?

Both. I think it is a reaction to cultural constraints. So, by its nature, it evolves from thought and instinct. (Just my opinion)

Is it learned or inside us?

Learned.


Is it brought on by physical injury or defect?

Maybe.


Is it developed through religious practice?

Depends on what kind of religious practice we're talking about.


Connection of Mind, Body and Spirit. Do the play roles in establishing what is Evil?

Probably.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

"So far, about morals, I know only that what is moral is what you feel good after and what is immoral is what you feel bad after." --Ernest Hemingway

 

[ABSTRUSE]

So, no one is born Evil?

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Dunno? I never met an evil baby?

 

[Pure]

some thoughts on evil

i think we have to start with the concept of infliction of serious harm, e.g. pain, and up to death.

then the landscape gets messy, because of the issue of goals.

1) suppose it's political, e.g purify the Aryan race? e.g. Hitler.
1a) suppose the political cause, overall, is good, e.g. Truman decides to incinerate the residents of Hiroshima, men, women, and children?

2) suppose it's for gain, e.g., the Clutter murders in the true story, "In cold blood."

3) suppose it's personal pleasure, e.g. the 'true sadist' who's aroused by the dying struggles of the one he's raping.

e.g. Leonard Lake. Ian Brady and Myra Hindley.

4) suppose it's for no apparent reason, or just to 'pass the time'; someone cuts you--chosen randomly, and on a whim-- so they can watch you bleed out. such a person might simply be indifferent to the consequences for the victim, or not care about right and wrong.

5) suppose it's with the intention of 'doing evil,' e.g. being remembered as the most terrible of mass murderers.

===

I have trouble ranking these. In a Xian tradition, supposedly the last is the worst, and that's Satan's motivation. this has to do with a criterion mentioned by another poster, awareness that the act is evil.

Looking at history, i think it's the opposite; nazi and other genocides, whatever the purification rationale, ARE the most evil. I don't give a fuck about 'awareness of the act as evil.'

Then my mind flips over, and, in the end, it seems that awareness of doing harm or evil really DOES add to the evil. Lake or Dahmer or Bundy seem to qualify as extremes of evil.

Then another issue arises: the "inner demons" problem. Bundy was quite OK, with many friends and colleagues. He spoke of being seized by a dark force. Arguably his last crimes, in FLA where they had a death penalty, were to get himself caught and executed. Same applies to "Son of Sam."

So, on balance, maybe Mr. Lake takes the cake, to my thinking as of this moment. [Add, Brady and Hindley, also] Mr. Fritzl, the Austrian fellow, lately in the news for imprisoning his daughter, is right up there, of course, though he didn't directly kill anyone.

---
PS. I like JBJ's posting above. Sadistic infliction of pain and terror on a kid, is an extreme of evil. But again, I'd wonder if it's more a case of 3, 4, or 5. (this leaves aside all the nazi cases, where hundreds of kids were executed, let's say simply by shooting.)

 

[Liar]

So states that practice capitol punishment are idiots? Not to pick a fight or anything. Or are you talking just about people making statements like that?

Both, pretty much. But not nessecarily. See below.

But that's my personal ethics, not nessecarily backed by substantial arguments. Feel free to disagree.

People who oppose capital punishment generally believe all punishment is evil, and attribute crime to society failing the poor oppressed criminal.

Only when punishment is driven by bloodlust instead of rational nessecity. Then it's fucked up.