Most Bizarre poltical siwtcheroo I've seen in my young life

[Weevil]

How, how, did the Democrats become the party with the impressive collection of Vets? It's bizarre, isn't it?

I mean, Cleland, Kerry, Inouye, Jack Reed and on and on. Even Tom Daschle has some legitimate military service.

And yet I keep coming across Republican after Republican who either has no Military Service or the gentle kind Al Gore did. Most of them, by the way, extremely hawkish.

I don't need to run through the list(Well, Bush, Lindsay Graham, Chambliss, Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson to name a few) and I don't have hard numbers but it seems to be a bizarre switcheroo from the party of military squares we all grew up with.

I don't mean to demean the service records of all republicans but, to emphasize this point further, why don't you think of the first two prominent Republicans with distinguished military careers? Was it Powell and McCain? The two guys at the far left of the Republican party?

If you know me at all, you'll know I could care less whether a politician was in the army or not(And if he didn't serve in Vietnam then they get kudos) but it's a weird switch isn't it?

Just my ramblings for the day.

 

[Azwed]

It is a strange phenomenom.

As far as I can remember Powell and Rumsfeld are the only civilian members of Bush's national security council that have had military experience.

 

[lavender]

Rumsfeld is an evil man.

 

[Azwed]

Rumsfeld is an evil man.

Oh come on now he is not that bad.

Makes a great secretary of war not so great a secretary of defense.

You need guys like that in that in those kinds of positions sometimes.

Ashcroft is an evil man not Rumsfeld.

 

[lavender]

Dude, did you see Rumsfeld's press conference the other day? The press isn't gonna sit back and watch the Bushies and Rummies of the world wage war on Iraq so easily. The press was putting it to Rumsfeld about the discrepancies with Anan's and Bush's statements regarding their feeling about current inspections in Iraq. Rummie had the most smug smile on his face - kinda reminded me of Lanciepants.

 

[Azwed]

Nope did not see it but I don't have cable and so don't see many press conferences. I don't necessarily agree with him on everything but I think he is over all a good guy.

The assistant Air Force secretary came to speak at tech a month or so ago and my National Security advisor nailed him to the wall with a question.

He told him that many of his students wanted to go into public service but were having difficulties with the ethical problems that many public officials have.

The Secretary asked him what he meant and my proff replied with something like this.

Well how can Rumsfeld say that he had no knowledge about the various economic ties, arms sales, special loans and other dealings we had with Iraq during the 80's when he had meetings with Saddam during tha time and was a Special Envoy to the area.

Pretty much shut the Secretary up and he would not longer take questions from my Proff.

 

[Purple Haze]

The one's that like to holler "draft-dodger" the loudest usually found their way out of the service.

Ted Nugent shit his pants for a week so he could stay out of Nam.

Now listen to him...

 

[Problem Child]

Rumsfeld for president.

Lavender stop being a dork.

 

[70/30]

I'd put Vietnam Vet Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb) in Powell and McCain's reasonable camp.

Tom DeLay is satan.

 

[p_p_man]

How, how, did the Democrats become the party with the impressive collection of Vets? It's bizarre, isn't it?

I mean, Cleland, Kerry, Inouye, Jack Reed and on and on. Even Tom Daschle has some legitimate military service.

And yet I keep coming across Republican after Republican who either has no Military Service or the gentle kind Al Gore did. Most of them, by the way, extremely hawkish..

It probably has something to do with the fact that when someone experiences military action their outlook on life changes and they usually become more compassionate.

The Democrats being more caring than the Republicans would be the natural Party to gravitate towards...

ppman

 

[modest mouse]

(And if he didn't serve in Vietnam then they get kudos)

This is a bizarre comment.

Oh, and are you not Canadian?

Whats the situation with military service by your politicians?

 

[sexyguy2]

Rumsfeld for president.

Lavender stop being a dork.

You've been blindfolded and brainwashed by the Bush administration.

Shrub Bush himself never reported to his Alabama NG unit DURING THE VIETNAM WAR!!! What do you call that, Problem Child? I call it Away Without Leave during wartime. What do you think his punishment would've been had he done that during WW2?

Tom DeLay, Dick Armey and all the rest of that self-righteous crowd are a bunch of goddamned chickenhawks and cowards.

BTW I'm a Vietnam-era veteran myself, so I've got a dog in this fight.

 

[Problem Child]

Shrub Bush himself never reported to his Alabama NG unit DURING THE VIETNAM WAR!!! What do you call that, Problem Child?

I think you need to pop another one a them muscle relaxers and turn on big time wrasslin'.

 

[Thrillhouse]

Re: Most Bizarre poltical switcheroo I've seen in my young life

I don't need to run through the list(Well, Bush, Lindsay Graham, Chambliss, Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson to name a few) and I don't have hard numbers but it seems to be a bizarre switcheroo from the party of military squares we all grew up with.

Check here.

Read this.

This is damn amusing, also.

 

[sexyguy2]

I think you need to pop another one a them muscle relaxers and turn on big time wrasslin'.

That's one of the most incredibly STUPID comments I've seen from anyone on this board.

 

[phrodeau]

I thought "poltical siwtcheroo" was more stupid.

 

[Thrillhouse]

I found a list of the enitire Congress' military service.
http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/106th-congress/106-cong-mil-lst.html

 

[Comshaw]

posted by Weevil:

"...If you know me at all, you'll know I could care less whether a politician was in the army or not(And if he didn't serve in Vietnam then they get kudos)..."

Yep I know you. Too young to really know, to tunnel visioned and narrow minded to allow yourself to see, and too damned dense to understand what that time was all about. Must be nice to use 20-20 hind sight to take pot shots at that which you can't possibly nor never will be able to understand. And please don't give me the drivel you usually do about Vietnam, I don't really give a fuck what you think or say. you are as bad as Red Wave and Hans when it comes to being close minded and off the deep end. Facts don't really make a difference with you. Your opinion is the holy grail according to Weevil. Sorry junior, it means about as much to me as a fart in a hurricane and contains about as much body.

Comshaw C.O.B.

 

[Problem Child]

Weevil-

Your basic premise is wrong. You can call Bush a chickenhawk all you want, and maybe with some merit. It's a little disingenuous though, since Bill Clinton actively dodged the draft, yet sent our military on more operations than any other president in history. Does the president's military record really count? If it counts for Bush, why not for Clinton?

Anyway, you are wrong about Republicans being more um...chickenhawkish...than Democrats. I did a little counting, and in the 106th congress, of the senators or representatives with military service, 70 of them were Democrats and 110 of them were Republicans.

If you look at the first two sites that thrillhouse provided you will see that they are totally biased toward Democrats and Against republicans. They make all the Democrats look like War heroes and conveniently forget to mention all the Republicans that served with honor other than a few prominent one like McCain and Powell.

I don't count people like Rush Limbaugh, by the way. He doesn't make policy. I could just as easily say that Rob Reiner and Susan Sarandon (prominent Democrats who donate huge amounts of money to the dems and can affect policy) never served either.

Lastly, sexyguy, I never said Bush was a war hero. I don't even like Bush. The reason you think my comment was stupid is because you don't get the fact that it had nothing to do with your comment, just like your comment had nothing to do with my first post. Go crack another beer.

Here's the list, reformatted from the site thrillhouse provided:

http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/106th-congress/106-cong-mil-lst.html

SENATE MEMBERS with MILITARY SERVICE
(106th CONGRESS)

26 Republicans

1. Conrad Burns (R-Mont.) Marine Corps 1955-57 Cpl.

2. Ben Nighthorse-Campbell (R- Colo.) 1951-53 Airman 2nd Class

3. John H. Chafee (R-R.I.) Marine Corps 1942-45 Capt. Marine Corps 1951-52 Capt.

4. Thad Cochran (R-Miss.) Navy 1959-61 Lt. j.g.

5. Paul Coverdell (R-Ga.) Army 1962-64 Capt.

6. Larry E. Craig (R-Idaho) Idaho National Guard 1971-73 E-3

7. Michael B. Enzi (R-Wyo.) Air National Guard 1968-73

8. Slade Gorton (R-Wash.) Army 1946-47, Air Force 1953-56 Air Force Reserve 1956-81 Col.

9. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) 1967-68 Sgt.

10. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) Navy 1962-67 Lt. Naval Reserve 1968-74 Lt. Cmdr.

11. Jesse Helms (R-N.C.) Navy 1942-45

12. James M. Inhofe (R-Okla.) Army 1957-58 Pfc.

13. James M. Jeffords (R-Vt.) Navy 1956-59 Naval Reserve 1959-90 Capt.

14. Richard G. Lugar (R-Ind.) Navy 1957-60

15. John McCain (R-Ariz.) Navy 1958-81 Capt.

16. Frank H. Murkowski (R-Alaska) Coast Guard 1955-56

17. Don Nickles (R-Okla.) National Guard 1970-76

18. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) Marine Corps 1958-62 Lt.

19. William V. Roth Jr. (R-Del.) Army 1943-46 Capt.

20. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) Army 1973 2nd Lt. Army Reserve 1973-86 Capt.

21. Robert C. Smith (R-N.H.) Navy 1965-67 Ensign

22. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) Air Force 1951-53 1st Lt.

23. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) Army Air Corps 1943-46 1st Lt.

24. Craig Thomas (R-Wyo.) Marine Corps 1955-59 Capt.

25. Strom Thurmond (R-S.C.) Army Reserve 1924-41, Army 1942-46 Lt. Col.Army Reserve 1947-65

26. John W. Warner (R-Va.) Navy 1944-46 Marine Corps 1950-52 1st Lt.

16 Democrats

1. Daniel K. Akaka (D-Hawaii) Army Corps of Engineers 1945-47

2. Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.) Army Reserve 1968-74

3. Richard H. Bryan (D-Nev.) Army 1959-60 2nd Lt.

4. Jack Reed (D-R.I.) Army 1967-79 Capt.Army Reserve 1979-91

5. Charles S. Robb (D-Va.) Marine Corps 1961-70 Maj.,USMC Reserve 1970-91 Lt. Col.

6. Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-N.Y.) Navy 1944-47, Naval Reserve 1947-66

7. Tim Johnson (D-S.D.) Army 1969

8. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) Army 1951-53 Pfc.

9. Bob Kerrey (D-Neb.) Navy 1966-69 Lt. j.g.

10. John Kerry (D-Mass.) Navy 1966-70 Lt.

11. Herb Kohl (D-Wis.) Army Reserve 1958-64

12. Frank R. Lautenberg (D-N.J.) Army 1942-46 Cpl.

13. Max Cleland (D-Ga.) Army 1965-68 Capt.

14. Tom Daschle (D-S.D.) Air Force 1969-72 1st Lt.

15. Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.) Army Reserve 1969-75

16. Ernest F. Hollings (D-S.C.) Army 1942-45 Capt.


HOUSE MEMBERS with MILITARY SERVICE
(106th CONGRESS)

84 Republicans

1. Bill Archer (R-Texas) Air Force 1951-53 Capt.

2. Spencer Bachus (R-Ala.) National Guard 1969-71

3. Cass Ballenger (R-N.C.) Naval Air Corps 1944-45 Aviation cadet

4. Bill Barrett (R-Neb.) Navy 1951-52

5. Herbert H. Bateman (R-Va.) Air Force 1951-53 1st Lt.

6. Doug Bereuter (R-Neb.) Army 1963-65 1st Lt.
7.
8. Michael Bilirakis (R-Fla.) Air Force 1951-55

9. Tom Bliley (R-Va.) Navy 1952-55 Lt.

10. Sherwood Boehlert (R-N.Y.) Army 1956-58

11. John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) Navy 1968

12. Ed Bryant (R-Tenn.) Army 1970-78 Capt.

13. Dan Burton (R-Ind.) Army 1957-58 Army Reserve 1958-64

14. Steve Buyer (R-Ind.) Army Reserve 1980-84 Capt. Army 1984-87 Capt.Army Reserve 1987-present

15. Sonny Callahan (R-Ala.) Navy 1952-54 Seaman

16. Howard Coble (R-N.C.) Coast Guard 1952-56 Capt.Coast Guard Reserve 1960-81 Capt.

17. Coast Guard 1977-78 Capt.

18. Mac Collins (R-Ga.) National Guard 1964-70 E4

19. John Cooksey (R-La.) Air Force 1967-69 Air National Guard 1969-72

20. Philip M. Crane (R-Ill.) Army 1954-56 Cpl.

21. Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R-Calif.) Navy 1967-87 Cmdr.

22. Thomas M. Davis III (R-Va.) Army 1971-72 2nd Lt. National Guard 1972-79 Army Reserve 1972-79 1st Lt.

23. Nathan Deal (R-Ga.) Army 1966-68 Capt.

24. John J. "Jimmy" Duncan Jr. (R-Tenn.) Tenn. Army National Guard Army Reserve 1970-87 Capt.

25. Terry Everett (R-Ala.) Air Force 1955-59 Airman 1st Class

26. Thomas W. Ewing (R-Ill.) Army 1957 Spec. 4 Army Reserve 1957-63 Spec. 4

27. Ernie Fletcher (R-Ky.) Air Force 1974-80

28. Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-N.J.) Army 1969-71 Pvt.

29. Greg Ganske (R-Iowa) Army Reserve 1986-present Lt. Col.

30. George W. Gekas (R-Pa.) Army 1953-55 Cpl.

31. Jim Gibbons (R-Nev.) Air Force 1967-71 Col. Nev. Air National Guard 1975-95 Vice Cmdr.

32. Wayne T. Gilchrest (R-Md.) Marine Corps 1964-68 Sgt.

33. Paul E. Gillmor (R-Ohio) Air Force 1965-66 Capt.

34. Benjamin A. Gilman (R-N.Y.) Army 1943-45 Staff Sgt. N.Y. State Guard 1981- presen Col.

35. Bill Goodling (R-Pa.) Army 1946-48 Pfc.

36. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.) Army 1960-62

37. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) Air Force 1982-88; 1990 Air National Guard 1989-present Maj.

38. James V. Hansen (R-Utah) Navy 1952-54

39. Richard "Doc" Hastings (R-Wash.) Army Reserve 1964-69 Spec. 4

40. Van Hilleary (R-Tenn.) Air Force 1982-84 2nd Lt Air Force Reserve 1984-present Maj.

41. David L. Hobson (R-Ohio) Ohio Air National Guard 1958-63

42. Steve Horn (R-Calif.) Army Reserve 1954-62 Spc.

43. Amo Houghton (R-N.Y.) Marine Corps 1945-46 Pfc.

44. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.) Army 1969-71 Lt.

45. Henry J. Hyde (R-Ill.) Navy 1944-46 Ensign Naval Reserve 1946-68

46. Bill Jenkins (R-Tenn.) Army 1060-62 Lt.

47. Sam Johnson (R-Texas) Air Force 1951-79 Col.

48. Walter B. Jones, Jr. (R-N.C.) N.C. National Guard 1967-71

49. Peter T. King (R-N.Y.) National Guard 1968-73 Spec. 5

50. Joe Knollenberg (R-Mich.) Army 1955-57 Cpl.

51. Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz.) Navy 1967-69

52. Steve Kuykendall (R-Calif.) Marine Corps 1968-73 Capt.

53. Ron Lewis (R-Ky.) Navy 1972

54. John Linder (R-Ga.) Air Force 1967-69 Capt.

55. Robert L. Livingston (R-La.) Navy 1961-63 Naval Reserve 1963-67

56. Bill McCollum (R-Fla.) Navy 1969-72 Naval Reserve 1972-92 Cmdr.

57. Jack Metcalf (R-Wash.) Army 1946-47 Pvt.

58. Gary Miller (R-Calif.) Army 1967-68 Pvt.

59. Charlie Norwood (R-Ga.) Army 1967-69 Capt.

60. Ron Packard (R-Calif.) Navy Dental Corps 1957-59

61. Ron Paul (R-Texas) Air Force 1963-65 Capt.Air National Guard 1965-68 Capt.

62. John E. Peterson (R-Pa.) Army Reserve 1958-64 Spec. 2

63. Joseph R. Pitts (R-Pa.) Air Force 1963-69 Capt.

64. John Edward Porter (R-Ill.) Army Reserve 1958-64

65. Jim Ramstad (R-Minn.) Army Reserve 1968-74 1st Lt.

66. Thomas M. Reynolds (R-N.Y.) Air National Guard Sgt.

67. Harold Rogers (R-Ky.) National Guard 1957-64

68. John Shadegg (R-Ariz.) National Guard 1969-75

69. Donald L. Sherwood (R-Pa.) Army 1964-66 1st Lt.

70. John M. Shimkus (R-Ill.) Army 1980-85 Capt.

71. Bud Shuster (R-Pa.) Army 1954-56

72. Joe Skeen (R-N.M.) Navy 1945-46 Air Force Reserve 1949-52

73. Nick Smith (R-Mich.) Air Force 1959-61 Capt.

74. Floyd D. Spence (R-S.C.) Naval Reserve 1952-88 Capt. Navy 1952-54

75. Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) Air Force 1963-67 Capt.

76. Bob Stump (R-Ariz.) Navy 1943-46

77. Wes Watkins (R-Okla.) Okla. National Guard 1960-67 2nd Lt.

78. Dave Weldon (R-Fla.) Army Medical Corps 1981-87 Maj. Army Reserve 1987-92

79. Edward Whitfield (R-Ky.) Army Reserve 1967-73 Lt.

80. Roger Wicker (R-Miss.) Air Force 1976-80 Capt. Air Force Reserve 1980-present Lt. Col.

81. Heather A. Wilson (R-N.M.) Air Force 1978-89 Capt.

82. Frank R. Wolf (R-Va.) Army Reserve 1962-63 Enlisted

83. C.W. Bill Young (R-Fla.) National Guard 1948-57

84. Don Young (R-Alaska) Army 1955-57

54 Democrats

1. John M. Spratt Jr. (D-S.C.) Army 1969-71 Capt.

2. Pete Stark (D-Calif.) Air Force 1955-57

3. John Tanner (D-Tenn.) Navy 1968-72 Lt.National Guard 1974-present Lt. Col.

4. Gene Taylor (D-Miss.) Coast Guard Reserve 1971-84 E-6

5. Mike Thompson (D-Calif.) Army 1968-69 Sgt.

6. Edolphus Towns (D-N.Y.) Army 1956-58

7. Jim Turner (D-Texas) Army 1978 Capt.

8. Vic Snyder (D-Ark.) Marine Corps 1967-69 Cpl

9. David E. Bonior (D-Mich.) Air Force 1968-72 Staff Sgt.

10. Leonard L. Boswell (D-Iowa) Army 1956-76 Lt. Col.

11. Allen Boyd (D-Fla.) Army 1969-71 1st Lt.

12. George E. Brown Jr. (D-Calif.) Army 1942-46 2nd Lt.

13. William L. Clay (D-Mo.) Army 1953-55

14. Bob Clement (D-Tenn.) Army 1969-71 Lt.National Guard 1971-present Col.

15. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.) National Guard 1948-50 Army 1950-54 Army Reserve 1954-57

16. William J. Coyne (D-Pa.) Army 1955-57 Spec. 3

17. Robert E. "Bud" Cramer (D-Ala.) Army 1972 2nd Lt. Army Reserve 1976-78 Capt.

18. Peter A. DeFazio (D-Ore.) Air Force 1967-71 Lt.

19. Bill Delahunt (D-Mass.) Coast Guard 1963 Coast Guard Reserve 1963-71

20. John D. Dingell (D-Mich.) Army 1944-46 2nd Lt.

21. Julian C. Dixon (D-Calif.) Army 1957-60 Sgt.

22. Bob Etheridge (D-N.C.) Army 1965-67 E4

23. Lane Evans (D-Ill.) Marine Corps 1969-71 Lance Cpl.

24. Martin Frost (D-Texas) Army Reserve 1966-72

25. Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.) Air National Guard 1965-71

26. Charlie Gonzalez (D-Texas) Texas Air National Guard 1969-75 Tech Sgt.

27. Virgil H. Goode Jr. (D-Va.) Va. National Guard 1969-75

28. Ralph M. Hall (D-Texas) Navy 1942-45 Lt.

29. Maurice D. Hinchey (D - N.Y.) Navy 1956-59 Seaman

30. Joseph M. Hoeffel III (D-Pa.) Army Reserve 1970-76 E-4

31. William J. Jefferson (D-La.) Army 1969-75 Capt.

32. Paul E. Kanjorski (D-Pa.) Army 1960-61

33. Jerry Kleczka (D-Wis.) Air National Guard 1963-69

34. John J. LaFalce (D-N.Y.) Army 1965-67 Capt.

35. William O. Lipinski (D-Ill.) Army Reserve 1961-67

36. Ken Lucas (D-Ky.) Air Force 1955-57 Maj.Air National Guard 1957-67

37. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.) Army Reserve 1968-73

38. Matthew G. Martinez (D-Calif.) Marine Corps 1947-50 Pfc.

39. Frank R. Mascara (D-Pa.) Army 1946-47 Pvt.

40. Jim McDermott (D-Wash.) Navy Medical Corps 1968-70 Lt. Cmdr.

41. Joe Moakley (D- Mass.) Navy 1943-46

42. Alan B. Mollohan (D- W. Va.) Army Reserve 1970-83 Capt.

43. Dennis Moore (D-Kan.) Army 1970 2nd Lt.

44. John P. Murtha (D- Pa.) Marine Corps 1952-55 Lt. Marine Corps 1966-67 Maj.Marine Corps Reserve 1967-90 Col.

45. Solomon P. Ortiz (D-Texas) Army 1060-62 Spc.

46. Bill Pascrell Jr. (D-N.J.) Army 1961 E-5 Army Reserve 1962-67 E-5

47. Collin C. Peterson (D-Minn.) National Guard 1963-69 Staff Sgt.

48. Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) Army 1948-52 Staff Sgt.

49. Ralph Regula (R-Ohio) Navy 1944-46 Seaman

50. Silvestre Reyes (D-Texas) Army 1966-68 Sgt.

51. Bobby L. Rush (D-Ill.) Army 1963-68 Pvt.

52. Robert C. Scott (D-Va.) Army Reserve 1970-74 National Guard 1974-76

53. Jose E. Serrano (D-N.Y.) Army Medical Corps 1964-66

54. Norman Sisisky (D-Va.) Navy 1945-46 Seaman, 1st Class

 

[Mischka]

Shrub Bush...

Psst - shrub and bush are synonyms. Really - you can look it up.

 

[WriterDom]

Weevil-

Anyway, you are wrong about Republicans being more um...chickenhawkish...than Democrats. I did a little counting, and in the 106th congress, of the senators or representatives with military service, 70 of them were Democrats and 110 of them were Republicans.

Class

Confusing liberals with the facts is a Hate Crime.

 

[Azwed]

Confusing liberals with the facts is a Hate Crime.

I thought you had left. Oh well the board has been going down steadly lately makes sense for you to be around.

 

[WriterDom]

I thought you had left. Oh well the board has been going down steadly lately makes sense for you to be around.

Yeah, I left after my "271 days till the republicans take over the senate" thread wasn't taken seriously.

sorry about your board.

 

[Guest]

well, you did give pp man a hard on.

 

[Thrillhouse]

Anyway, you are wrong about Republicans being more um...chickenhawkish...than Democrats. I did a little counting, and in the 106th congress, of the senators or representatives with military service, 70 of them were Democrats and 110 of them were Republicans.

Damn, PC, you put a lot of work into that. Mixed a couple up, but that's understandable with that many names. However, I think you may have misinterpreted "chickenhawk." A chickenhawk is simply someone who is gung-ho hawkish, yet didn't serve when he had the opportunity to do so. For example, if Dubya had gotten a relatively cushy NG position through his Daddy's influence, went AWOL for 18 months, but was NOT all gung-ho about going to war with Iraq, he would still be a deserter, but not a chickenhawk. It's the hypocrisy of saving your own ass, then desiring others to risk theirs that makes one a chickenhawk. And I'm sure there are some chickenhawks among the Democrats, too.