More writerliness - awkward arms and angry lesbian breasts

[TheEarl]

I've used the phrase "She placed an awkward arm over his shoulders..."

What I mean of course is that "She placed an arm in a way which felt awkward to her over his shoulders..." which just about translates to "She placed an arm awkwardly over his shoulders..."

I am loath to allocate human qualities (and for the love of God someone remind me what the technical name is for doing that) to anything which isn't a human, for a fear of ending up with Stephen King's famous On Writing quote of 'angry lesbian breasts'. I'm not sure if I can get away with using "awkward arm" here.

Whaddya think?

The Earl

 

[impressive]

I've used the phrase "She placed an awkward arm over his shoulders..."

What I mean of course is that "She placed an arm in a way which felt awkward to her over his shoulders..." which just about translates to "She placed an arm awkwardly over his shoulders..."

I am loath to allocate human qualities (and for the love of God someone remind me what the technical name is for doing that) to anything which isn't a human, for a fear of ending up with Stephen King's famous On Writing quote of 'angry lesbian breasts'. I'm not sure if I can get away with using "awkward arm" here.

Whaddya think?

The Earl

anthropomorphism

She awkwardly placed ...

(I always stick the adverb DIRECTLY before the verb when in doubt.)

 

[LadyJeanne]

Awkward is one of those words that if you say it to yourself a few times, it starts to sound wierd, like it's not a real word.

 

[impressive]

Awkward is one of those words that if you say it to yourself a few times, it starts to sound wierd, like it's not a real word.

Visually (spelling-wise), it's the same way. It just starts to look WRONG!

 

[TheEarl]

anthropomorphism

She awkwardly placed ...

(I always stick the adverb DIRECTLY before the verb when in doubt.)

But is that quite the same thing? It is the arm that is awkward, rather than the placing. The arm is verging on being a gerund actually.

I'm sure there's another word for anthropomorphism, but I can't for the life of me think what it is.

The Earl

 

[impressive]

But is that quite the same thing? It is the arm that is awkward, rather than the placing.

I disagree. It is the ACTION that is awkward.

 

[TheEarl]

I disagree. It is the ACTION that is awkward.

Not really. She's not feeling awkward in the moving of her arm, she's feeling awkward in her arm's position. The action (placing) is accomplished without awkwardness, it is the static situation (the arm being there) that is awkward.

This is why I baulk.

The Earl

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Whaddya think?

I think you should definitely pay less attention to what Stephen King says about writing.

"She placed an awkward arm over his shoulders..." is ten times better than the alternative, in terms of literary richness. Is it gramatically correct? Probably not. But Literature is a work of stylistics, as much or much more than of grammarians.

 

[impressive]

Not really. She's not feeling awkward in the moving of her arm, she's feeling awkward in her arm's position. The action (placing) is accomplished without awkwardness, it is the static situation (the arm being there) that is awkward.

This is why I baulk.

The Earl

Ah, I misunderstood your intent. My apologies.

 

[TheEarl]

I think you should definitely pay less attention to what Stephen King says about writing.

"She placed an awkward arm over his shoulders..." is ten times better than the alternative, in terms of literary richness. Is it gramatically correct? Probably not. But Literature is a work of stylistics, as much or much more than of grammarians.

Well actually, according to King's opinion on writing (which he does stress is an opinion, rather than the definitive), the alternative is far worse for using an adverb. He hates them with a vengeance.

Me, I'll let a few of them flourish.

Thanks,

The Earl

 

[elfin_odalisque]

But is that quite the same thing? It is the arm that is awkward, rather than the placing. The arm is verging on being a gerund actually.

I'm sure there's another word for anthropomorphism, but I can't for the life of me think what it is.

The Earl

Barring 'humanization' I can't do better than Imp.

I suggest that awkward is not the word you're looking for. It is a bit of a gypsy meaning anything from shy onwards.

In physical terms are you looking for, uncomfortably, unnaturally, clumsily, gauchely, painfully.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

He hates them with a vengeance.

Another reason for you not to pay that much attention to what he has to say. Every category of words has its place. The only possible reason for a writer to hate a grammatical category with a vengeance is if he doesn't know how and when to use them.

 

[TheEarl]

Another reason for you not to pay that much attention to what he has to say. Every category of words has its place. The only possible reason for a writer to hate a grammatical category with a vengeance is if he doesn't know how and when to use them.

Lauren: Have you read On Writing? I would thoroughly recommend it, even if you dislike his fiction. He knows his stuff.

Every writer has pet peeves. I don't like dialogue tags myself.

The Earl

 

[logophile]

Go with your gut, Earl. I love it as you presented initially.

Of course, I love everything you do...

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Lauren: Have you read On Writing? I would thoroughly recommend it, even if you dislike his fiction. He knows his stuff.

Every writer has pet peeves. I don't like dialogue tags myself.

The Earl

I did, and was thoroughly disappointed.


Anyway, here is - maybe - what you were looking for:

Epithet. An adjective or adjective phrase appropriately qualifying a subject (noun) by naming a key or important characteristic of the subject, as in "laughing happiness," "sneering contempt," "untroubled sleep," "peaceful dawn," and "life-giving water." Sometimes a metaphorical epithet will be good to use, as in "lazy road," "tired landscape," "smirking billboards," "anxious apple." Aptness and brilliant effectiveness are the key considerations in choosing epithets. Be fresh, seek striking images, pay attention to connotative value.

A transferred epithet is an adjective modifying a noun which it cannot logically modify, yet which works because the metaphorical meaning remains clear:

* At length I heard a ragged noise and mirth of thieves and murderers. . . . --George Herbert
* Blind mouths! that scarce themselves know how to hold/ A sheep hook . . . --John Milton
* In an age of pressurized happiness, we sometimes grow insensitive to subtle joys.

The striking and unusual quality of the transferred epithet calls attention to it, and it can therefore be used to introduce emphatically an idea you plan to develop.

 

[TheEarl]

I did, and was thoroughly disappointed.


Anyway, here is - maybe - what you were looking for:

Epithet. An adjective or adjective phrase appropriately qualifying a subject (noun) by naming a key or important characteristic of the subject, as in "laughing happiness," "sneering contempt," "untroubled sleep," "peaceful dawn," and "life-giving water." Sometimes a metaphorical epithet will be good to use, as in "lazy road," "tired landscape," "smirking billboards," "anxious apple." Aptness and brilliant effectiveness are the key considerations in choosing epithets. Be fresh, seek striking images, pay attention to connotative value.

A transferred epithet is an adjective modifying a noun which it cannot logically modify, yet which works because the metaphorical meaning remains clear:

* At length I heard a ragged noise and mirth of thieves and murderers. . . . --George Herbert
* Blind mouths! that scarce themselves know how to hold/ A sheep hook . . . --John Milton
* In an age of pressurized happiness, we sometimes grow insensitive to subtle joys.

The striking and unusual quality of the transferred epithet calls attention to it, and it can therefore be used to introduce emphatically an idea you plan to develop.

Beautiful word and one which I'll remember, but not the one I'm thinking of. Dammit, this is going to bug me now.

Do you know, you are the first author I've met to have disliked On Writing? How come you disliked it, or did it just not hit you right?

The Earl

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Do you know, you are the first author I've met to have disliked On Writing? How come you disliked it, or did it just not hit you right?

The Earl

I disliked its insistence on establishing hard rules that make little sense, such as the use of adverbs in dialogue attributives that you mentioned, or his views on plot. As I was reading the book, every time I came across one of those rules, there would be numerous examples of great books that did the exact opposite popping into my mind.

On the whole, I thought it was a good enough guide if you want to learn how to write the way he does, if you want to write his type of fiction. I don't, though.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Earl, my advice as always is "if it flows nice and doesn't seem awkward or everything else seems more awkward, your readers will agree with you. Writing is tricking people into participating in your reality long enough to make it real.

 

[CharleyH]

I've used the phrase "She placed an awkward arm over his shoulders..."

What I mean of course is that "She placed an arm in a way which felt awkward to her over his shoulders..." which just about translates to "She placed an arm awkwardly over his shoulders..."

I am loath to allocate human qualities (and for the love of God someone remind me what the technical name is for doing that) to anything which isn't a human, for a fear of ending up with Stephen King's famous On Writing quote of 'angry lesbian breasts'. I'm not sure if I can get away with using "awkward arm" here.

Whaddya think?

The Earl

Personally, I would describe how the arm moves over the shoulder, and how it feels - when placed - to the person who thinks it awkward, and all without using the word awkward.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Earl, my advice as always is "if it flows nice and doesn't seem awkward...

Nicely?

 

[logophile]

Earl, my advice as always is "if it flows nice and doesn't seem awkward or everything else seems more awkward, your readers will agree with you. Writing is tricking people into participating in your reality long enough to make it real.

I'm with Luc on this one! Well said.

 

[TheEarl]

Writing is tricking people into participating in your reality long enough to make it real.

That's an exceptional turn of phrase.

Lauren: I think the key is not to look at it as an instruction manual, but more as inspiration. King himself says that he is not saying how to create a masterpiece, only telling people how he creates. Which advice you take and which you leave is up to you.

I have been known to use Swifties (he said cheekily), but they should really be eyed with great caution and used only where sensible. Swifties have a tendency to take over.

The Earl

 

[Lauren Hynde]

That's an exceptional turn of phrase.

Lauren: I think the key is not to look at it as an instruction manual, but more as inspiration. King himself says that he is not saying how to create a masterpiece, only telling people how he creates. Which advice you take and which you leave is up to you.

Obviously. It is a good autobiography; it's not a good book on writing. It would have been better aptly titled "My Writing" - but it wouldn't have sold as many copies.

 

[Liar]

"She placed an awkward arm over his shoulders."

I wouldn't even call it a anthromorphism. Just a metonymic shift. Which I can see nothing wrong with. It's a fairly common device. Even less manipulating reality than your common metaphor.

We have wistful smiles and mysterious glances aplenty, so why not an awkward arm?

#L