More than One Colon or Semi pr Sentence

[dr_mabeuse]

More than One Colon or Semi per Sentence

"The new neighborhood was just what she’d hoped for when they moved in: bright, filled with sun and warmth, green grass and flowers: a perfect place to bring up Taylor."

I don't want to argue over whether there should be a colon or a comma after "moved in"; I just want to see what people think of using more than one colon or semi-colon in a sentence, whether it's okay or whether it offends some sensibility or rule of grammar,

It always seemed to me without really thinking much about it that colons & semi's were something like male orgasms: one per sentence, but then I was never in the habit of using colons and semi's all that much anyhow. I'd use a colon before a list and a semi when I wanted a 'strong' comma and that was about it.

All this has changed since I've been reading Patrick O'Brian, an author whose style I admire very much and who uses these double-stops a lot more than I'm accustomed to, and to very good effect. He thinks nothing of having as many as 3 or 4 colons in one sentence, and even more for semi's.

Anyone find this offensive or unacceptable?


---dr.M.

 

[SexySoBeChick]

I wouldn't say it's offensive and I can't specifically cite a grammatical rule that says you can't do it. Personally, I've never seen it done before and I'd avoid it, if at all possible, because it looks strange. I'd use dashes for that sentence.

Example:

The new neighborhood was just what she'd hoped for when they moved in—bright, filled with sun and warmth, green grass and flowers—a perfect place to bring up Taylor.

Of course, I'd also probably rewrite that sentence to read:

Bathed in bright, warm sunlight, filled with green grass and flowers, the new neighborhood was exactly what she'd hoped for when they'd moved in—a perfect place to bring up Taylor.

JMHO,
SSBC

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Doc,

At my "straight" writing site, we got into a long discussion on the issue of semi-colons in nodern fiction. The upshot was there is nothing "wrong" with using either colons or semi-colons once or even twice in a sentence. HOWEVER, the current trend in fiction writing is to avoid using either of them whenever possible.

Apparently the thinking among the publishing crowd is that readers prefer shorter, crisper sentences. This is just my subjective observation; but em dashes seem to be replacing semi-colons. The examples given by SexySoBeChick are probably pretty close to what editors and agents are looking for these days.

As for colons, they're usually considered very formal and are seldom used in fiction. Of course there are always exceptions to every so-called "rule" when writing fiction--the historical novels of the late Patrick O'Brian being a good example. However, if he was just starting to write and working on a contemporary novel, I wonder if he'd use the same style?

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Madame Manga]

O'Brian's model was Jane Austen, who wrote sentences exactly like that one with reasonable frequency. No, her style is not modern, but it is nevertheless wonderful; the way her thoughts unfold and amplify with each clause never fails to amaze me. Her style slows the reader down to the pace of another century, one in which a telegraphic style was not an asset. As I read Austen, I feel my own thought processes becoming richer and clearer; there is no greater recommendation for reading a particular author.

Don't remove semicolons just because you think they are 'formal'. On the contrary, they are a very useful tool for building relationships between thoughts in a sentence. Standard English grammar is much more than fussiness, a legalistic tone or stern teachers rapping you over the knuckles--it's the structure and nuance of a great language, and still has every place in fiction. If some writers are made nervous by certain parts of speech, that's unfortunate. They have everything to gain by learning how to use and appreciate them.

MM

 

[dr_mabeuse]

All respect to SSBC and RF, I'll side with MM on this one. The idea of publishers dictating to writers what they're looking for just gets my back up terribly. Of course, if I were trying to write what publishers were looking for, I sure wouldn't be here writing BDSM porn. Just like generals are always looking for a chance to fight the last war over again, publishers are always looking for the last big thing, Fuck 'em, I says. Someone will learn to use colons grasefully and then publishes will suddenly all be looking for writers who can use colons.

I was a big user of em dashes for a while and still use them a lot. Kerouac used them all the time and theyworked for him because his style was a kind of frantic transcription of verbatim speech, all breathless and disconnected. The piece that the example is taken from is anything but. It's a fragmented account of a woman's descent into BDSM madness told not so much as a linear story but as a series of dreamlike vignettes, and I want to contrast the irrational/emotional side of her sexual behavior with the staid and logical world of her everyday life. I'm using a highly structured, almost formal voice for describing her normal life, and a wilder, more poetic voice for describing her sexual encounters.

The em dash, to me at least, is used for interjections, for putting in things that are not logically part of the sentence. Colons and semis imply a more logical connection. Colons especially imply a logical connection. The way SSBC rewrote the sentence is a bit too flutey for me. I like the flat, declarative feel of my version better. I just wanted to know if seeing more than one colon in a line would make some people do a double take.


---dr.M.

 

[cahab]

Re: More than One Colon or Semi per Sentence

"The new neighborhood was just what she’d hoped for when they moved in: bright, filled with sun and warmth, green grass and flowers: a perfect place to bring up Taylor."

I don't want to argue over whether there should be a colon or a comma after "moved in"; I just want to see what people think of using more than one colon or semi-colon in a sentence, whether it's okay or whether it offends some sensibility or rule of grammar,

Offensive isn't quite the right word; after all it doesn't really effect me. However i have to be honest and say that I would be irritated by it in a story. An author who does it all the time is different; you may choose to ignore rules of grammar for effect, but if you only do it occasionally you will look like you either made a mistake or don't know what you're doing.

A colon is the same as a full stop, and is usually used for lists, or to mark continuations across a paragraph, e.g:

My friends gave me a list of the reasons why I didn't get laid:

My hair
My acne
My lack of car and money.

You can't have two colons in the same sentence, because each colon creates a new sentence. It's like having two exclamation marks in the same sentence.

A semi-colon is a comma, but is usually read as a longer pause and a greater break in the sentence. You can have two of these in a sentence, but it looks messy and is hardly ever called for.

The sentence you gave would be best as:

The new neighborhood was just what she’d hoped for when they moved in; bright, filled with sun and warmth, green grass and flowers. A perfect place to bring up Taylor.

 

[Pure]

I'm not sure I've seen the decking of colons, because they create hierarchy. After the colon is a subordinate thought [a list or a sentence].

Hart's Rules [quoted in _New Fowler's_, p. 159] says, "...the colon generally marks a step forward, from introduction to main theme, from cause to effect, premiss to conclusion, etc.: [example] In business there is something more than barter, exchange, price, payment: there is a sacred faith fo man in man.



Semi's can run for pages since the thoughts are conjoined.


I saw him come in from the sun; he was tired, but not sick; I asked him to sit down.

The two colons, if I can conceive [aside from lists] would be an explanation with an explanation:

He was very tired and could hardly stand: He hadn't eaten in days: His jaw had been wired shut.

Each explains the other. But I've not seen it.

So I say, for one sentence many semi's, one colon, then maybe many more semi's. At very least, the colons would have to be far apart.

There are conventions as to how many words per sentence, but 100 is often done.

Note, in your example, the second colon feels wrong. I'd say, change it to a semicolon. The last clause is NOT an explanation for the qualities on the list.

---
PS I wouldn't take postings on this topic too seriously if they have grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors.

 

[janus40s]

Re: More than One Colon or Semi per Sentence

"The new neighborhood was just what she’d hoped for when they moved in: bright, filled with sun and warmth, green grass and flowers: a perfect place to bring up Taylor."
...
It always seemed to me without really thinking much about it that colons & semi's were something like male orgasms: one per sentence, ... ---dr.M.

To extend the metaphor, the skillful use of multiple colons highlights a leisurely approach to the practice of writing: one in which sentences continue, delighting the reader and continuing to stimulate the mind as would a skillfull male lover would: with multiple orgasms.

 

[janus40s]

"The new neighborhood was just what she’d hoped for when they moved in: bright, filled with sun and warmth, green grass and flowers: a perfect place to bring up Taylor."
...
It always seemed to me without really thinking much about it that colons & semi's were something like male orgasms: one per sentence, ... ---dr.M.

To extend the metaphor, the skillful use of multiple colons highlights a leisurely approach to the practice of writing: one in which sentences continue, delighting the reader and continuing to stimulate the mind as a skillfull male lover would: with multiple orgasms.