More opinions needed

[BooMerengue]

I've been toying with this one for awhile. I know some don't like sing songy rhyming things, so no need to mention that.

But other than that, what do y'all think?

I'll give birth to you at midnight
tween the winter and the spring
on a bed of piny needles
while the owls and eagles sing

I will suckle you at dawning
fill you full of my desires
we will dance sky clad at midnight
'round the roaring Beltane fires!

I will keep you as my soulmate
teach you ancient secret things
You will guard me and anoint me
You will be my pulse, my wings

And when time is finished with me
you will lie down by my side
I will slay you with my dagger
in your blood I will reside.​

My ending is very weak... I know it needs one more verse. This last... "while weaving sunlit motes" is a line I want to use... just not sure where.

 

[WickedEve]

quickie critique

It's not a bad sing songy kind of rhyme.

Most of it's quite good. The last line is okay but not great.

"fill you full of my desires" could be better.

The first stanza is the best.

This line seems to be one syllable too long: we will dance sky clad at midnight. Maybe you can change we will to we'll.

 

[BooMerengue]

It's not a bad sing songy kind of rhyme.

Most of it's quite good. The last line is okay but not great.

"fill you full of my desires" could be better.

The first stanza is the best.

This line seems to be one syllable too long: we will dance sky clad at midnight. Maybe you can change we will to we'll.

I love your input Evie... your so good yourself. (major sucking up...hehe)

 

[BooMerengue]

It's not a bad sing songy kind of rhyme.

Most of it's quite good. The last line is okay but not great.

"fill you full of my desires" could be better.

The first stanza is the best.

This line seems to be one syllable too long: we will dance sky clad at midnight. Maybe you can change we will to we'll.

I love your input Evie... your so good yourself. (major sucking up...hehe)

You're right on all counts but one. In this type of poem I believe each line must be unique, and "fill you full of my desires" is sort of trite.

I forget what kind of rhyming this is- foehn told me- but that line has to have 8 beats, the next 7 and so on. Try it again and see if you hear what I mean. I'm actually off in another couple place.

I'll give birth to you at midnight (8)
tween the winter and the spring (7)
on a bed of piny needles (8)
while the owls and eagles sing (7)

I will suckle you at dawning (8)
fill you full of my desires (7)
we will dance sky clad at midnight (8)
'round the roaring Beltane fires! (7)

I will keep you as my soulmate (8)
teach you ancient secret things (7)
You will guard me and anoint me (8)
You will be my pulse, my wings (7)

And when time is finished with me (8)
you will lie down by my side (7)
I will slay you with my dagger (8)
in your blood I will reside. (7)

 

[WickedEve]

I will suckle you at dawning (8)
fill you full of my desires (7)
we will dance sky clad at midnight (8)
'round the roaring Beltane fires! (7)

I read your poem aloud several times and I wasn't quite sure about that line.

See if you can find out what this form is.

 

[Remec]

My ending is very weak... I know it needs one more verse. This last... "while weaving sunlit motes" is a line I want to use... just not sure where.

I think it would fall into a new fourth verse. You've already covered winter, spring, early summer (Beltane)...so perhaps the fourth might touch on the early harvest that comes from Lughnasa through Samhain...

 

[foehn]

Boo asked me (I think) to point out things about the form and meter.

Firstly, I hope some day to convince people here that "beats" are NOT syllables! The latest and most sensible analysts that I know about put "syllables" as they occur in poetry into two categories: weak-stressed syllables and strong-stressed ones. This aspect of pronunciation is pointed out in dictionaries, with single words. A "strong-stress" syllable is generally one that takes longer to pronounce, and usually a higher-pitched intonation (inflection). Only the strong-stressed syllables are counted as "beats."

The poem Boo has graced us with is something close to the Heroic Ballad, comprised of quatrains rhyming X A X A, X B X B, X C X C, and so on. Rhythm is variable, but the heroic quatrain is usually like what is presented by this poem. You could consider it to be rhyming couplets of septameter, except that is broken into half between lines, with 4 - 3 - 4 - 3 strong stresses in a stanza, which is as natural as the way we like to listen to music. The "missing" strong stress at the ends of the 2nd and 4th lines of each stanza generally cause a reader to add an extra pause, to make up for the missing 4th "beat."

One of the confusing things about the poem, as presented is that the lines aren't being divided traditionally, but all the "beats" would be there if they were broken differently:

I'll give birth to you at midnight
tween the winter and the spring
on a bed of piny needles
while the owls and eagles sing

...could become:


I'll give birth to you at midnight tween
the winter and the spring
on a bed of piny needles while
the owls and eagles sing


in the bolded stanza, it's easy to see the traditional rhythmic pattern:

da-da DUM da-DUM da DUM da DUM
da DUM da DUM da DUM
da-da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM
da DUM da DUM da DUM

That makes it all iambic except for a couple of stray anapests at the beginnings of lines 1 and 3. And it fixes the "beats per line" problem by changing the places of the line breaks, which alters a reader's tendency to pause, if only slightly, in the reading of the poem.

Pauses and lines can alter the reading of a poem. That's because there are some syllables which teeter on the brink of going either way, toward a strong-stress or a weak stress either one. We look for visual clues, in case of confusion, or audible ones in our inner ears, even if we aren't really reading aloud. "Scansion," which in poetics means analyzing the meter and rhythm of a poem, is not an exact science. It's rare that there's only one way of pronouncing a phrase or a line of poetry. So we rely on poets to give clues about how they wanted it to sound.

The rhythm can be highly variable as it is with this poem. Boo hasn't learned all the terminology yet, but when you have an "ear" for the music, as she does, you don't need it! She has an excellent ear, and where you may find an extra syllable, you'll find a missing "beat." The rhythm can be basically dactyllic, anapestic, iambic or trochaic. The form is usually iambic, as are most English traditional poetry offerings, but a good mix of all of the meters can make for a very lively rhythm, which this poem has.

That's not to say that Eve's comment was out-of-bounds. When "we will" is used instead of "we'll," the natural tendency of most of us is to give "will" a strong-stress, a "beat" in the pronunciation: e.g. "we WILL." That trips most readers up with regard to an easy following of the metrical pattern of the poem, which, to be consistent, must be 4 -3 -4 -3. It's like having one too many drumbeats or notes in a song, where, if you're dancing, causes you to lose step.

On the other hand, it's not impossible to give "will" a weak stress in the same phrase, skipping over the pronunciation as if the word is barely there. But if there's an easy fix to preventing the first-time reader from stumbling, I recommend it.

It's not necessary to know all this technical crap, but sometimes it helps one to understand for sure what is going on in their poem, instead of just guessing. An ear can be excellent, as many here are, but they're rarely infallible.

And, all this technical crap aside (& maybe Boo didn't really want this much depth), it's really a very lovely poem-in-the-making. I do think the end has a way to go yet before acquiring the wollop that matches the beginning.

***

Trivia questions for those who never quite get enough:

(1) What is a "pause" in poetry called, technically?

(2) What is the difference between blank verse and free verse?

*smile*

Have a nice day everyone. I'm glad I have friends here.


/f

 

[BooMerengue]

Ahh, foehn, you're such a doll. I had no idea I was doing all that. Like I said, it just 'felt' right.
You're right about the ending, and I am working on it. Be back with changes as soon as I work them out.

Thanks, baby.

 

[twelveoone]

Trivia questions for those who never quite get enough:

(1) What is a "pause" in poetry called, technically?

(2) What is the difference between blank verse and free verse?

*smile*

Have a nice day everyone. I'm glad I have friends here.


/f

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0903237.html
1)caesura
A natural pause or break in a line of poetry, usually near the middle of the line. There is a caesura right after the question mark in the first line of this sonnet by Elizabeth Barrett Browning: “How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.”

2a)blank verse
Poetry that is written in unrhymed iambic pentameter. Shakespeare wrote most of his plays in blank verse.

2b)free verse
is cheaper

 

[foehn]

esculent!

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0903237.html
1)caesura
A natural pause or break in a line of poetry, usually near the middle of the line. There is a caesura right after the question mark in the first line of this sonnet by Elizabeth Barrett Browning: “How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.”

2a)blank verse
Poetry that is written in unrhymed iambic pentameter. Shakespeare wrote most of his plays in blank verse.

2b)free verse
is cheaper

Excellent! Beautifully and quickly answered, 1201! I especially liked "free verse is cheaper..."

 

[BooMerengue]

Is this better? I wrote it as if it were all on one line, but broke it into 2. I guess the line break does make a difference.

I'll give birth to you at midnight tween
the winter and the spring
on a bed of piny needles while
the owls and eagles sing

I will suckle you at dawning kindle
all of your desires
we will dance sky clad at midnight 'round
the roaring Beltane fires!

I will keep you as my soulmate teach
you ancient secret things
You will guard me and annoint me You
will be my pulse, my wings

And when time is finished with me you will
lie down by my side
I will slay you with my dagger in your
blood I will reside.​

 

[BooMerengue]

bumping this for more work and more input

 

[eagleyez]

The last version was my favorite, a rythmic quality and tender emotive words strung side by side.

I read it aloud, and it flows like molasses.

 

[BooMerengue]

The last version was my favorite, a rythmic quality and tender emotive words strung side by side.

I read it aloud, and it flows like molasses.

Thank you, Pal. Poems are like babies- I hated to throw this one out.

Now. Take whats her name out to the woods under the moon and let her dance while you put this to music. Mandolin music. plaintive, blue grassy music. hmmm...??? Doable, ya think?

 

[eagleyez]

How about twelve string tuned down to open D? (no mando in the house)

And yes-- do-able as all hell.

 

[BooMerengue]

How about twelve string tuned down to open D? (no mando in the house)

And yes-- do-able as all hell.

Thats very cool. I know what a twelve string is, but you lost me when you said 'open D'. I am clueless when it comes to music, except to know what I like and what I don't. I really like Sally Go Round The Roses by The Jaynettes. I wish you could hear it. Do you remember it? Thats how this should sound, I think. I might be wrong...

 

[Angeline]

Thank you, Pal. Poems are like babies- I hated to throw this one out.

Now. Take whats her name out to the woods under the moon and let her dance while you put this to music. Mandolin music. plaintive, blue grassy music. hmmm...??? Doable, ya think?

Uh huh. Verrry doable. We might have to practice tonight. Ok, forget the "might" part.



I didn't understand the open D part either--but I'm learning. Sounds real good.

 

[eagleyez]

Open D is the tuning used by John Fahey, Leo Kottke, Stephen Stills, Joni Mitchell,
to name just a few.

It is challenging on a twelve strang, cause ya gotta hone in all the silvers. Double everything.

Mine stays in tune like a motherfucker. I pick it up after weeks and hit it open and the christmas lights go on.


Then the fingers fiddle, the voice asks the cackling muse for a melody. He says "ok, but I need another cigar and a sandwich."

I treat the little fella submissively. Im an easy mark.

 

[eagleyez]

open D

D-A-D-F#-A-D


regular tuning

E-A-D-G-B-E.

A world of difference.

 

[Angeline]

Open D is the tuning used by John Fahey, Leo Kottke, Stephen Stills, Joni Mitchell,
to name just a few.

It is challenging on a twelve strang, cause ya gotta hone in all the silvers. Double everything.

Mine stays in tune like a motherfucker. I pick it up after weeks and hit it open and the christmas lights go on.


Then the fingers fiddle, the voice asks the cackling muse for a melody. He says "ok, but I need another cigar and a sandwich."

I treat the little fella submissively. Im an easy mark.

<Gets a cigar and a sandwich for your muse>

 

[BooMerengue]

*sets some Boursin and crackers and peaches picked fresh this morning on the table. Pours some really chilled Tn Red Wine. Lays the one hitter in easy reach.

Y'all keep talkin'. I'm listening.

 

[Angeline]

*sets some Boursin and crackers and peaches picked fresh this morning on the table. Pours some really chilled Tn Red Wine. Lays the one hitter in easy reach.

Y'all keep talkin'. I'm listening.

Keep it up and we'll just move in.

 

[BooMerengue]

Keep it up and we'll just move in.

That might be alright. I think. I'm not much of a people person anymore. I'm even gettin' tired of kids. Well... these kids anyway. In a perfect world I'd have my cabin on an island up there somewhere, and you could drop in anytime. In my next life I want to be a recluse soooo bad!

 

[Jennifer C]

That might be alright. I think. I'm not much of a people person anymore. I'm even gettin' tired of kids. Well... these kids anyway. In a perfect world I'd have my cabin on an island up there somewhere, and you could drop in anytime. In my next life I want to be a recluse soooo bad!

LMAO...I don't blame ya...

 

[Angeline]

That might be alright. I think. I'm not much of a people person anymore. I'm even gettin' tired of kids. Well... these kids anyway. In a perfect world I'd have my cabin on an island up there somewhere, and you could drop in anytime. In my next life I want to be a recluse soooo bad!

I do understand, yknow.

THE LAKE ISLE OF INNISFREE
By William Butler Yeats

I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree,
And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made;
Nine bean rows will I have there, a hive for the honeybee,
And live alone in the bee-loud glade.
And I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow,
Dropping from the veils of the morning to where the cricket sings;
There midnight's all a-glimmer, and noon a purple glow,
And evening full of the linnet's wings.

I will arise and go now, for always night and day
I hear the water lapping with low sounds by the shore;
While I stand on the roadway, or on the pavements gray,
I hear it in the deep heart's core.

1892