MLK's dream

Ishmael

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Linda Chavez

August 15, 2002

MLK's dream

Thirty-nine years ago this month, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., stood before a crowd of 250,000 people at the 1963 March on Washington to deliver his famous "I have a dream" speech. King's powerful words inspired all Americans and came to symbolize the struggle for equal rights for blacks. This weekend, another march on
Washington will take place, this one sadly symbolizing the moral bankruptcy that has infected much of the civil rights movement in recent years. Under the banner "They Owe Us," thousands will rally in the nation's capital to demand reparations for slavery, a dubious cause that threatens to divide, not unite, Americans.

This latest march is the brainchild of Conrad Worrill, national chairman of the National Black United Front, a Chicago-based, '60s-style radical group that has little interest in promoting racial healing. Where King invoked the image that one day "the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood," Worrill prefers to speak of the "genocide" of white Americans against blacks and to demand, "We're due reparations."

King himself was well acquainted with the sentiments that Worrill and his friends in the reparations movement espouse, even speaking about the issue in his famous speech. "Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred," he warned. At the time King spoke those words, black
radicals, including Worrill's close friend and Black Panther Party leader Stokely Carmichael, were preaching Black Power and racial separatism. But King cautioned that racial animosity was a dead end and that black militancy "must not lead us to distrust of all white people." King noted that the fates of blacks and whites were
inextricably linked. "We cannot walk alone," he said.

The reparations movement stands no chance of succeeding in the courts or in Congress. With support from a bevy of black luminaries, from private attorney Johnnie Cochran to Harvard professor Charles Ogletree to Trans Africa chairman Randall Robinson, the reparations movement is more about grabbing headlines than enacting public policy. The blame game won't put money in the pockets of the descendants of slaves, but it is likely to make both blacks and whites resentful.

Most white Americans feel no personal culpability for slavery -- nor should they. The descendants of slave owners make up a tiny fraction of the current white population, and even they cannot be held responsible for the sins of their fathers. And many Americans -- whites, Asians and Hispanics -- are descendants of immigrants who came to the United States long after slavery ended. So what possible good does it do for black leaders to blame whites for deeds committed long ago?

Dr. King did believe that America owed a debt to blacks. "When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence," he said on that hot August day in 1963, "they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all
men would be guaranteed the inalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is obvious today," he said, "that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned."

King called upon America to issue a check to black Americans, "a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice." But he wasn't talking about a bank draft.

When King spoke these words, Congress had yet to pass the great Civil Rights Act of 1964, which guaranteed nondiscrimination in employment, public accommodations, education and federally funded programs. Nor had Congress enacted the 1965 Voting Rights Act or the 1968 Fair Housing Act. These laws would not have been passed were it not for the leadership of men like Dr. King, who hoped that "all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands." How sad it is that four decades later some who claim to be King's heirs instead want to pit one group against the other.
 
Personally I will NEVER pay one penny of reparations. Not one single penny. I will either be in jail or dead.

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
Personally I will NEVER pay one penny of reparations. Not one single penny. I will either be in jail or dead.

Ishmael
The movement for reparations is, and will be a very devisive issue that will be of no benefit to anyone. Someday in a far off future America will be one fucked up place, as the drive to divide us by issues such as this continues. It is unfortunate that the same ammount of energy is not focused on programs that would actually be of benefit to society.
 
I really dont' believe that we should be held responsible for the errs of our forefathers.


We can only do what is right today and that doesn't include a blank check.


It is unfortunate the MLK's message is being translated or ignored in such a fashion. The man stood for something and it wasn't a hand out.

We, as a nation, have some work to do concerning equal opportunity for many, not just blacks. However, writing a check out to those who suffered years ago isn't the answer.

I am tired and babbling.

Sorry.
 
bored1 said:
The movement for reparations is, and will be a very devisive issue that will be of no benefit to anyone. Someday in a far off future America will be one fucked up place, as the drive to divide us by issues such as this continues. It is unfortunate that the same ammount of energy is not focused on programs that would actually be of benefit to society.

Awww nuts!

I should have waited and just nodded my assent at bored1's post.

:)
 
There is oppurtunity and financial gain in various ways for those who can effectively cause turmoil. For some, it has become a coldly calculated buisiness.
 
MissTaken said:
I really dont' believe that we should be held responsible for the errs of our forefathers.


We can only do what is right today and that doesn't include a blank check.


It is unfortunate the MLK's message is being translated or ignored in such a fashion. The man stood for something and it wasn't a hand out.

We, as a nation, have some work to do concerning equal opportunity for many, not just blacks. However, writing a check out to those who suffered years ago isn't the answer.

I am tired and babbling.

Sorry.

Not babbling that badly. :D

This is a quest by the undeserving to stuff their hands further into another groups pocket.

Perhaps they believe that if they make enough noise someone will pay to make them go away. I don't think that is going to happen this time. This movement has the potential to create a racial rift that will never heal.

Ishmael
 
Until we speak honestly to the black community, there will be no melting pot.

Until the black community is honest with itself, there will be no melting pot.

These people want to keep a house divided against itself in order to continue the Fistfull of Dollars scenario.

Playing both sides against each other...
 
And at the risk of creating a shitstorm...

I'll give ya reparations,

If ya give me the "N" word!
 
I owe no one a thing when it comes to past crimes against humanity and I agree with Ish about the dead or jail thing. Now maybe people will understand my detest for our goverments mentality.
 
To those whom look to government to be the solve-all you look like Osama bin Laden! I am Arafat! UncleBill is the Devil! Ish gets stuck with Saddam...
 
Ishmael said:
Personally I will NEVER pay one penny of reparations. Not one single penny. I will either be in jail or dead.

Ishmael

Dead or in jail? I don't think you need to be that impassioned by the idea. It's certainly not the worst thing your tax dollars could go to (and already have gone to, as we all know).

I find it funny how much this issue agitates average people all over the country, white and black. America as a whole still doesn't know what to do with it's population of ex-slaves, hoping that ignoring the issue will somehow make it go away. It wasn't until Clinton was in office that a formal apology was even talked about (and even that idea was unable to gain steam).

The whole reparations campaign is doomed for the simple fact that most white people are in a state of denial and so-called black leaders are self-serving and full of shit.

The black community continues in its cycle of self destruction because of a tired persicution complex that leads many to believe that the world owes them something. A blank check is last thing many of these peole need. I'd love to see how many people take their reparation money and buy brand new FUBU outfits and the latest SUV or, worse yet, drop it in the church collection plate (hate to say it but it's true).

Black people still haven't learned how to take care of one another so a reparations pay off would probably end up being a waste. The only way reparation money could be put to any good use is if it were placed into a fund that would finance the type of education, medical and community based programs that we need but I wouldn't trust any of my current "black leaders" to properly oversee that endeavor.

Instead of choosing sides in this silly reparations debate, we need to come to an honest dialogue; one in which white peole have the courage to admit to the "Sins of the fathers" and acknowledge that America has a race problem that needs fixing and black people own up to the problems in our communities that we create and perpetuate all by ourselves. And "honest dialouge" means no politicians or "leaders" full of long windy speeches.
 
Another good commentary...from Today - Washington Times - Michelle Malkin

Michelle Malkin

Thousands of aggrieved activists are headed to Washington, D.C., later this week for the "Millions for Reparations" march. The theme is: "They Owe Us."

"Us" means black Americans who allegedly endure lasting psychological and economic suffering as a result of their ancestors (or someone else's ancestors) being enslaved centuries ago. "They" means the U.S. government, which means American taxpayers, which means tens of millions of people who had nothing remotely whatsoever to do with inflicting such injustice on anyone.

So what exactly do We Owe Them?

Russell Simmons, a wealthy hip-hop music executive, is marketing the reparations gospel to black youths under the modernized demand for "40 acres and a Bentley." He's also using the movement to sell his own line of "Phat Classic" sneakers. Wearing Mr. Simmons' hip shoes, you see, will do wonders to ease the vestiges of involuntary servitude and colonization.

Defense attorney Sam Jordan, one of the march's lead organizers, apparently thinks freeing former Black Panther Mumia Abu-Jamal — the death row inmate found guilty in the violent 1981 murder of Philadelphia Police Officer Daniel Faulkner — would balance the historical books. "The case of Mumia Abu-Jamal has much in common with the case of reparations for all the descendants of the sons and daughters of Africa forced into chattel slavery," Mr. Jordan inveighed at a press conference in D.C. earlier this week. "Mumia is indomitable, as is the spirit of reparations and the campaign for justice for the millions who yet carry the mark of the lash."

Officer Faulkner died with a bullet to his brain and back, and Mr. Jordan has the nerve to rant about Mumia's imaginary lash marks?

The gall knows no end. One class-action lawsuit filed in Brooklyn, N.Y., against Fleet Boston Financial, Aetna and CSX puts the reparations tab at $1.5 trillion in unpaid wages of slave labor. Others have priced the pain at $500,000 in special tax rebates for every black American in the country, or up to $8 trillion.

A year and a half ago, when this self-pitying business of slavery reparations first took off, I whipped out my own reparations calculator. I urge others to do the same, and start clamoring for your own personal payoff:

My ancestors from the Philippines were enslaved by Spain and forced to build and man the galleons that brought Hispanic explorers to America. During World War II, my relatives were subjected to extreme physical and economic oppression under Japanese occupation. During the 1920s, the states of California and Hawaii imported 50,000 laborers from my ancestral homeland to toil on American farms. Filipinos also worked on agricultural fields in Oregon, Washington, Arizona and Montana. In addition, my people built levees in the San Joaquin Delta and slaved away in fisheries and lumber mills up and down the West Coast in horrid conditions.

During that time of servitude, Filipinos faced rampant societal and governmental discrimination. They were barred from voting, owning land or starting businesses of their own in California. Anti-miscegenation laws in 16 states kept my ancestors from legally marrying white women. Until 1947, it was illegal in California for Filipinos to marry whites. In Alaska, cannery workers from the Philippines were segregated and barred from many establishments that displayed signs like "No dogs or Filipinos allowed."

Crunching the reparations numbers, every American of Spanish descent owes me $514,000 plus compound interest. Adjusted for inflation, every fellow countryman of Japanese descent owes $750,222. California residents owe my family an even $300,000. Alaskans, Hawaiians, Oregonians, Washingtonians, Arizonans and Montanans must pay $75,000 to atone. And anyone else — white, black or otherwise — whose family members ingested Filipino-harvested asparagus, peas, cauliflower, onions, tomatoes, grapes or fish, or who burned Filipino-cut firewood, or who lived in homes built of Filipino-sawed lumber from 1923-1947, can settle their debt by sending me a check for $999.99.

As for Russell Simmons, you owe me, too. A free pair of your $65 Phat Classic shoes should cover my pain. I wear a women's size 6½. No sneakers, no peace.
 
Though, I do agree that we have a lot of work to do as a nation to ensure "Equal Opportunity". We're headed in the right direction, but we need to have strong programs for schools and good programs that focus on equal opportunity in loans. Rhetoric for equal opportunity is not enough, firm action needs to be taken also. I don't agree with reparations or affirmative action, but strongly believe in equal opportunity (not equal results though - results are up to the individual).
 
There, that's some comedy for you. :) Satire is good.

Do you suppose I could get a pair of those Phat Classic shoes too?
 
Re: Another good commentary...from Today - Washington Times - Michelle Malkin

LovetoGiveRoses said:

Russell Simmons, a wealthy hip-hop music executive, is marketing the reparations gospel to black youths under the modernized demand for "40 acres and a Bentley." He's also using the movement to sell his own line of "Phat Classic" sneakers.

This is a joke right? I always knew Russell was full of shit but this is too much. But then again I actually heard him say with my own ears that he was "giving back" to the community by supplying us with a new line of shoes. Great! Just what I needed! Another sneaker!

Maybe next Mr. Simmons will be nice enough to fund a brand new liquor store for the corner and a rib shack to go right next to it! :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Re: Re: Another good commentary...from Today - Washington Times - Michelle Malkin

medjay said:


This is a joke right? I always knew Russell was full of shit but this is too much. But then again I actually heard him say with my own ears that he was "giving back" to the community by supplying us with a new line of shoes. Great just what I needed! Another sneaker!

Maybe next Mr. Simmons will be nice enough to fund a brand new liquor store for the corner and a rib shack to go right next to it! :rolleyes:

Not a joke, pasted from the newspaper.
 
Racist Slimefest

Well, I hate to interrupt this racist slimefest, but I figure there should be at least one voice of sanity on this thread. White Americans today are the successors in interest of their ancestors, who not only brutally enslaved the African-Americans, but stole the land from the native Americans. Not only that, but the historical wrongs done to African-Americans hardly ended with slavery. Persecution and discrimination continue to this very day.

African-Americans and all the many other victims of AmeriKKKa are owed trillions (at least!) of dollars in reparations.
 
Re: Racist Slimefest

REDWAVE said:
Well, I hate to interrupt this racist slimefest, but I figure there should be at least one voice of sanity on this thread. White Americans today are the successors in interest of their ancestors, who not only brutally enslaved the African-Americans, but stole the land from the native Americans. Not only that, but the historical wrongs done to African-Americans hardly ended with slavery. Persecution and discrimination continues to this very day.

African-Americans and all the many other victims of AmeriKKKa are owed trillions (at least!) of dollars in reparations.
what do the rival tribal leaders that helped in the situation owe?
 
medjay said:
...
The whole reparations campaign is doomed for the simple fact that most white people are in a state of denial and so-called black leaders are self-serving and full of shit.

The black community continues in its cycle of self destruction because of a tired persicution complex that leads many to believe that the world owes them something. ...

...

Instead of choosing sides in this silly reparations debate, we need to come to an honest dialogue; one in which white peole have the courage to admit to the "Sins of the fathers" and acknowledge that America has a race problem that needs fixing and black people own up to the problems in our communities that we create and perpetuate all by ourselves. ...

Just what sins did my Finnish fore-fathers commit that I need to face up to? The Welsh/English/Mongrel side of my heritage commited more than enough sins for me to admit to, but none of them were in the US prior to 1865 either.

I did have a great uncle who apparently stored the KKK's Grand Wizard of Oregon's robes in his footlocker; My great-aunt found them after he died, but didn't know who to return them to. ;)

I think everyone does need to "take sides" in the reparations debate -- the side of crushing this silly idea so completely that it never surfaces again! Until we can do that, there's not much hope for turning the world color-blind.

I may have had a KKK Grand Wizard in the family, but I never even knew it until after he died. IMHO, the KKK represents the worst of humanity and has no place in civilized society.

By the same token, various militant Black organizations are nearly as bad. The problem is, that by saying "Black militants are bad" I leave myself open to charges of racism because, "black militants are just trying to redress the oppression of the past" -- well that's what the KKK claims, too.

I'm more than willing to admit that Blacks,Fillipinos, Japanese, Irish, and many ther ethnic groups have suffered discrimination in the past. I'm even willing to admit that some of my forebearers were involve in that discrimination and I may have relatives today who would like to see the discrimination continue -- If I do, they don't admit it to me.

In my personal dealings, I worry about TODAY and tomorrow and not the past. I try to take each person as an individual without regard to ethnic or racial considerations. I support political candidates who promise to make things better -- if they seem rational about how to do it -- and support programs that attempt to offset the disadvantages minorities have to overcome to succeed.

I can do no more than that, and dwelling on the past wrongs (for either side of the reparations issue) does nothing but hamper any real progress. To the best of my knowledge my ancestors had nothing to do with slavery and I refuse to apologize or pay reparations for something that I had no control over. I do what I can TODAY and try to improve tomorrow to the best of my ability -- if that's not enough, then tough.
 
Weird Harold said:


Just what sins did my Finnish fore-fathers commit that I need to face up to?

Hmmm. I don't recall saying that everyone needs to own up to their ancestors crimes, especially if your ancestors didn't do anything. I just pointed out that there is this attitude that the past has no bearing on the present, which isn't true.

Printed below is a copy of the infamous Willie Lynch Letter:

Gentlemen:

I greet you here on the bank of the James River in the year of our lord, one thousand seven hundred and twelve. First , I shall thank you, the gentlemen of the of the colony of Virginia, for bringing me here. I am here to help you solve some of your problems with slaves. Your invitation reached me in my modest plantation in the West Indies where I have experimented with some of the newest and still the oldest method for control of slaves. Ancient Rome would envy us if my program is implemented. As our boat sailed south on the James River, named for our illustrious KING JAMES, whose BIBLE we CHERISH, I saw enough to know that our problem is not unique. While Rome used cords or wood as crosses for standing human bodies along the old highways in great numbers, you are here using the tree and the rope on occasion.

I caught the whiff of a dead slave hanging from a tree a couple of miles back. You are losing valuable stock by hangings, you are having uprisings, slaves are running away, your crops are sometimes left in the fields too long for maximum profit, you suffer occasional fires, your animals are killed, Gentleman,...You know what your problems are; I do not need to elaborate. I am not here to enumerate your problems, I am here to introduce you to a method of solving them.

In my bag, I have a fool proof method for controlling your slaves. I guarantee everyone of you that if installed it will control the slaves for at least three hundred years. My method is simple, any member of your family or any OVERSEER can use it.

I have outlined a number of differences among the slaves, and I take these differences and make them bigger. I use FEAR, DISTRUST, and ENVY for control purposes. These methods have worked on my modest plantation in the West Indies, and it will work throughout the SOUTH. Take this simple little list of differences and think about them. On the top of my list is "AGE" but it is only there because it starts with an "A"; The second is"COLOR" or shade; there is INTELLIGENCE, SIZE, SEX, SIZE OF PLANTATION, ATTITUDE of owner, whether the slaves live in the valley, on a hill, east or west, north, south, have fine or coarse hair, or is tall or short. Now that you have a list of differences, I shall give you an outline of action- but before that, I shall assure you that DISTRUST IS STRONGER THAN TRUST, AND ENVY IS STRONGER THAN ADULATION, RESPECT OR ADMIRATION.

The black slave, after receiving this indoctrination, shall carry on and will become self-refueling and self-generating for hundreds of years, maybe thousands.

Don't forget you must pitch the old black VS. the young black males, and the young black male against the old black male. You must use the dark skinned slaves VS. the light skin slaves. You must use the female VS the male, and the male VS, the female. You must always have your servants and OVERSEERS distrust all blacks, but it is necessary that your slaves trust and depend on us.

Gentlemen, these kits are your keys to control, use them. Never miss an opportunity. My plan is guaranteed, and the good thing about this plan is that if used intensely for one year the slave will remain perpetually distrustful.

-WILLIAM LYNCH-1772

**************

This, more than anything else, is the root cause of black people's problems in America today. This self hated still exists and is the reason why our communities are in a shambles. Throwing money at the problem won't fix it. It's psychological. Of course it's a problem black people didn't create for themselves but it is a problem only we can fix for ourselves. Maybe then some money would be of use. Until then, we have a lot of unlearning to do.

Whites can't begin to help in this process until they admit to themselves that the problem even exists.
 
While I do believe the residual affects of slavery and oppression on black Americans still exist today, I think direct monetary reparation is impractical for our nation. Acknowledgement is not impractical. This is a large population of US citizens whose ancestors were "freed" into an impoverished state....many were sharecroppers and such. Through the decades some have risen to higher economical status but desparity of education and job opportunities have kept many trapped in their situations. I can understand the bitterness that comes out of this, though I don't condone the behaviors the embittered often display (i.e. resorting to crime, hate, etc).

I do think things are improving slowly on some levels but we need to continue to focus on creating stronger communities that provide fair educational and job opportunities in areas where minorities have not had those opportunities. I can only see good for all coming out of this as Americans as a whole become stronger.
 
Hate it when that happens....I'm "unregisturd"


lol....i'll leave the typo...
 
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