Misrepresentations

[Mr Blonde]

We all probably start a BDSM relationship knowing there might be serious surprises along the way. But what bothers you about BDSM partners misrepresenting themselves?

We each audition for a new relationship. Perhaps we put our best foot forward and showcase what we have to offer. Subconsciously we might adjust ourselves to match what the other person seems to be looking for. But hopefully we stay within reason and don't misrepresent ourselves.

There are outright liars who are dishonest about their experience level...sometimes with dangerous consequences. But there are times when you withhold some non-critical information for your partner's benefit. Was she the first I did XYZ with? Or can I stipulate to the fact that it was not the first and let her think it was a few times when it was really dozens? (Or vice versa.)

Some people are shy and some are very outspoken. When I start dating a shy submissive, I expect that she will slowly come out of her shell and be somewhat more talkative. I expect a submissive to give me quality feedback at appropriate times. I can take the criticism but she needs to be honest.

But I feel misled when a subbie suddenly becomes a blabbermouth...or worse, stays very quiet. The blabbermouth had to be misleading me and I don't appreciate topping from the bottom. On the other hand, I don't feel comfortable dominating someone who can't communicate her needs and tell me what she is feeling. I don't want a relationship with a mindless zombie.

And what about pushing limits? I try to be clear about my style of dominance -- more cerebral and less sadistic than average. But I got to be who I am by experiencing different things along the way. Even if I am more of the psychological style, that doesn't mean I can't pick times to creatively get into some very kinky and unusual things. That mixed message has been a large reason for a few of my failed relationships. Women either wanted the weird stuff all the time and got frustrated when it was only an occasional thing with me. Or...the openness and honesty weren't developed in the trust-building part of the relationship, and women were scared to occasionally go "out there" past soft or hard limits.

So what do you think about misrepresentions in BDSM? How have misrepresentations hurt your past relationships? When are misrepresentations okay? And what have you learned as you move forward?

 

[recycling]

hm.

 

[shy slave]

Had to bump this...Any thoughts??

We all probably start a BDSM relationship knowing there might be serious surprises along the way. But what bothers you about BDSM partners misrepresenting themselves?

We each audition for a new relationship. Perhaps we put our best foot forward and showcase what we have to offer. Subconsciously we might adjust ourselves to match what the other person seems to be looking for. But hopefully we stay within reason and don't misrepresent ourselves.

There are outright liars who are dishonest about their experience level...sometimes with dangerous consequences. But there are times when you withhold some non-critical information for your partner's benefit. Was she the first I did XYZ with? Or can I stipulate to the fact that it was not the first and let her think it was a few times when it was really dozens? (Or vice versa.)

Some people are shy and some are very outspoken. When I start dating a shy submissive, I expect that she will slowly come out of her shell and be somewhat more talkative. I expect a submissive to give me quality feedback at appropriate times. I can take the criticism but she needs to be honest.

But I feel misled when a subbie suddenly becomes a blabbermouth...or worse, stays very quiet. The blabbermouth had to be misleading me and I don't appreciate topping from the bottom. On the other hand, I don't feel comfortable dominating someone who can't communicate her needs and tell me what she is feeling. I don't want a relationship with a mindless zombie.

And what about pushing limits? I try to be clear about my style of dominance -- more cerebral and less sadistic than average. But I got to be who I am by experiencing different things along the way. Even if I am more of the psychological style, that doesn't mean I can't pick times to creatively get into some very kinky and unusual things. That mixed message has been a large reason for a few of my failed relationships. Women either wanted the weird stuff all the time and got frustrated when it was only an occasional thing with me. Or...the openness and honesty weren't developed in the trust-building part of the relationship, and women were scared to occasionally go "out there" past soft or hard limits.

So what do you think about misrepresentions in BDSM? How have misrepresentations hurt your past relationships? When are misrepresentations okay? And what have you learned as you move forward?

Alot to think about here.

Mr Blonde I think your right to a certain extent we do audition at the begiining altering our perspective to another persons.

Then again, this happens at the beginning of a vanilla relationship as well.

I was mislead by two 'Doms prior to meeting Master.

One said he wanted a 'real' relationship as well as the BDSM ~ No he didn't!!
His life was made to suit him and him alone, a relationship was after the job, dog, car, plane (he was a pilot in RAF), house.
He was technically ok at the scene stuff but cold as ice the rest of the time ~ monosymbolic in a conversation.

The other liked spanking, and only spanking; though gave the initial impression he was experienced in other areas.

As a pyl I want to know that I can trust the person whom I am allowing access to my hidden self.
Misrepresentation of a PYL does not foster a trust based relationship.

Pyl/pyl's may think it is in the best interests of the other if they tell white lies about previous activities, but to gain what?

I would rather know they had ass fucked a dozen times and more before they met me, at least I know they will head in the right direction!!!

Equally if a PYL is looking for a more physical less cerebral relationship with a pyl who is the opposite it won't last long; otherwise topping from the bottom will be part of the norm in the relationship.

However, it is easy to misrepresent yourself without really trying. We all change as we learn and experience different things it can be difficult to remember what was the true story and what are sub-concious has deemed acceptable in hindsight.

If you don't beleive me, think of an instance in childhood that resulted in a telling off (which you feel was unjustified) then as parents/siblings for their version. Trust there will be differences lol


A bit like Jerry SpringerMy final thought ~ so far
I agree with Mr Blonde: Its essential at the beginning or a relationship to know what experience the other has regardless of PYL or pyl.

AA's shark pic sums it up, BDSM can be a dangerous activity!

 

[Mr Blonde]

Thanks for your response, shy slave. As for lack of attention this thread received, maybe I covered too much territory in my initial post. Oh well, live and learn!

 

[shy slave]

Maybe, then again if we keep bumping it someone may take an interest

*sits and waits for another to come and play*

 

[bridgeburner]

I can't speak much to BDSM specifically not having engaged in such in any significant sense, but since the thread is going begging to some extent I'll put in my two cents.

I have noticed upon perusing BDSM personals that people lie.

A lot.

People online lie.

A lot.

It's not particularly helpful to them except in the short term. They might get a couple hours of cyber out of it, but it can't translate to real life.

Even online there are some lies that just don't hold up.

For myself I'm pretty straightforward. I've noticed recently that I have a tendency to undersell myself --- I like to get the "minus" category out of the way. "I'm short, fat, balding with chronic halitosis and my only area of interest is Curling."

In doing that, however, I notice that I get a lot of strange attention from feebs who think I'll be grateful just to be approached and asked what color my nipples are.

So, while there are deliberate misrepresentations I think there are also unintentional ones as well that come from people's own less than reliable perceptions of themselves.

It's one thing to know whether or not you're experienced with trampling. It requires another kind of self-knowledge entirely to determine if one is more cerebrally wired or more physically wired.


-B

 

[shy slave]

tiny tiny hijack

People online lie.

A lot.

"I'm short, fat, balding with chronic halitosis and my only area of interest is Curling.
-B

But is this a lie?

I cope with any of it but the curling, for Gods sake thats the only sport Scotland win at, i mean how difficult can it be.

Mind you if they would only sweep up indoors they way they do on the rink (or whatever its called) who would need a slave lol

 

[dolf]

curling isn't so bad

ok, I don't have enough experience to put this as a statement, so I'll phrase it as a question.

is it that they are kidding themselves, unintentionally, as to what their limits are?

possible that the person can handle an activity in theory, getting turned on by fantasising about it, but when faced with the reality become too scared to try it?
I might day dream about caning...but in RL if someone came towards me holding one I'd scream and run a mile! maybe these people
ok, lol...i've not been very helpful here i think. never mind
xx

 

[RJMasters]

We all probably start a BDSM relationship knowing there might be serious surprises along the way.

So what do you think about misrepresentions in BDSM? How have misrepresentations hurt your past relationships? When are misrepresentations okay? And what have you learned as you move forward?

Specifically from a D/s point of view....misrepresentions in BDSM are bad. The D/s relationship depends on honesty to survive and thrive. Maybe I should qualify that statement by saying long-lasting, life-fulfilling D/s relationships depend on honesty and trust to survive just like any other long-lasting type of relationship.

I believe that is the whole point in having an exploring process, where preferences, limits, and just getting to know the person is done before 100% commitments are made. I am not a big fan of contracts, though I see why they are needed or can be used.

The truth is that we all get emotionally attached or excited when we find someone we like and who shares an interest in us. We often go into "don't screw this up mode" and inevitably end up screw it up by not being completely honest to begin with. IMO, the right person for anyone, is the type of person who can accept your faults and is willing to help you overcome them.

In my mind, the difference is the motivation of the person. When decieved, I seek to know why. It doesn't change the fact deception has occurred, but it does make a difference to me if the person did it on purpose.

In your example about a person being a blabber mouth and hiding that. Chances are that person may have ruin past relationships because of this and so does their best to hide it, but because its part of who they are, it will resurface again no matter how hard they try to suppress it. In this situation, I would much perfer the person to admit this to me during the exploring process. At least then I can accept it or not. If they communicate this is something they would like to change, I can then help them work on it, and allows me to chose ahead of time to weather the problems which may arise from this in the future.

It is no wonder so many relationships fly apart at the hinges, when both people are not open and honest. I think the best thing to understand is that if you are honest about both the good and bad in who you are, when you do find someone interested in you, then you know the interest is real, and not based on some false face you put forward in order to get them to like you.

I think it is foolsih to make a 100% commitment to anyone without knowing the bad side of them as well as the good side. We tend to focus only on the good, pleasant and the romance...and if you are only looking for a weekend of great sex, then I guess there is nothing wrong with that, however if you are looking long-term, then you have to live with them when they leave the cap off the toothpaste.

I appreciate a person is willing to admit thier faults and weaknesses, and express a desire to work on and change those things, than a person who hides these things, and waits untill pain is caused before it is revealed.

Again, much of this may not apply to people engaged in BDSM activities over-all, but if they are interested in building a long lasting relationship, honesty is a must. Once all the cards are laid on the table, then we can accept the risk eyes open going into the relationship.

I think it is helpful if a person takes the time every once in a while and write out their their desires, strengths and weaknesses. Also, write out things which are deal-breakers for any relationships they might enter. Since, these are really the things that need to be shared with someone you are exploring with.

It is amazing that people will put more thought and effort in being prepared for just about everything else in life, but when it comes to relationships, they just expect it all to somehow happen magically. I guess I am just as guilty of this as anyone.

Certainly there is room to withold certain things about yourself, until you feel a level of trust exist to share those things....however before a full commitment is made, I believe in full disclosure.

 

[bridgeburner]

Re: tiny tiny hijack

But is this a lie?

It was a hypothetical so it is not an accurate statement about me personally, but it's not meant as a lie --- wouldn't have been a lie for the hypothetical person.

That's confusing. Let me try again.

Say you've got some attributes that you're self-conscious about. You're pigeon-toed or have a lazy eye and your favorite pasttime is mondo-geeko. In an effort to be honest and forthright you make sure to mention those things to potential online partners. But is your posture or your walleye or your geeky pasttime really representative of the rest of you? Perhaps you're incredibly easy to be around. Maybe you've got a beautiful smile and you're not as big a geek as you think you are.

You aren't lying when you bring up those things, but because of the way that you imagine that others will feel about them (mostly influenced by the way you feel about them yourself) you paint an unflattering and not particularly realistic picture of yourself.

So sometimes we mislead without meaning to.


Which is all a bit different from what I think Mr. Blonde was initially talking about, but I was struck by a low-flying tangent. What can I say?


-B

 

[shy slave]

Re: Re: tiny tiny hijack

It was a hypothetical so it is not an accurate statement about me personally, but it's not meant as a lie --- wouldn't have been a lie for the hypothetical person.

That's confusing. Let me try again.

Say you've got some attributes that you're self-conscious about. You're pigeon-toed or have a lazy eye and your favorite pasttime is mondo-geeko. In an effort to be honest and forthright you make sure to mention those things to potential online partners. But is your posture or your walleye or your geeky pasttime really representative of the rest of you? Perhaps you're incredibly easy to be around. Maybe you've got a beautiful smile and you're not as big a geek as you think you are.

You aren't lying when you bring up those things, but because of the way that you imagine that others will feel about them (mostly influenced by the way you feel about them yourself) you paint an unflattering and not particularly realistic picture of yourself.

So sometimes we mislead without meaning to.


Which is all a bit different from what I think Mr. Blonde was initially talking about, but I was struck by a low-flying tangent. What can I say?


-B

BB your right, it is easy to misrepresent ourselves in an attempt at being too honest.

Maybe this is because we live in a society that in general will comment on the lazy eye, hallitosis etc and as individuals we accept those as a fact (particulary in body related things, if your short, bald etc its a fact). If, however, someone gives a compliment we often view it as a subjective statement.

If you go on any adult friend finder how many say I have a wonderful smile and my eyes light up when i laugh...not many thats for sure.

Therefore an element of misrepresentation may be because its a socital issue to always impress the negative about ourselves.

*not a low flying tangent in site *

RJ I understand what you say but its not always easy to follow that course of full disclosure.

There are times when we may withold an aspect for fear of losing or upsetting the other person; or simply because it was in the past and does not appear relevent to the situation they are now in. It is only when these things come to light unexpectedly that hindsight is a wonderful concept and we reach th realms of 'if only..'

That said of course people at times deliberatly mislead us. I too would like to know why someone ommited something i thought important, but can you trust that person to be truthful?

The other side of that is at the time of ommission was in a deliberate act or lack of insight?
If its a difficult thing to admit was there ever a 'right time?'

I posted on alt to find my Master and last night with this thread in mind re-read my advert.
At the time of writing it represented 'me' as far as i felt able to share with the world at large. On the other hand it can read as a Domme in disguise. It also true to say that on a day when I feel low and everything in my world is bad or wrong this ad is as nothing like me at all.

If someone contacted me and I agreed to meet them on a day that was an unshakably low day they could say i had misled them and at the time of telling they would not be wrong.

I would not have deliberately misled them but in order to be honest my ad should say that there are days when life is the pits, and I just need a hug.

 

[shy slave]

Decided to post my ad from earlier this year, to illustrate the point in previous post.

This add was not intended to misrepresent me, and it took several edits before I thought it sounded ok.

But the ad does not say:

-> 'have suffered depression in past and still have difficult days'

-> 'have two teenagers who think anyone going out with their Mum is a pervert desperate or both'

->'have no pets or houseplants'

-> 'in general, prefers indoor life to the great outdoors'

Some days all those points are true, other days they are not all true; for example I do go out and love walking on warm days in the rain and enjoy the days when the wind blows you off your feet.

Therefore in terms of the ad I was not completely truthful in relation to 365 days of the year.

If I had met a countryman would I have misled him because I did not mention outdoors and he therefore presumed I liked it?

PS the ad is turned-off so I don't have to worry about misrepresenting myself on it any longer


Ideal Person: I am looking for a Dom who is creative, has a sense of humour and wants to know me as a person before embarking on a D/s relationship.

I am naive enough to look for a mix of D/s and 'normal' emotional commiment outside of BDSM.

Day-to-day I am quite assertive so need a Master who can stand up to me. If you struggle with a sub who wants to push your limits of Domination then I would not be the sub for you. I do have a sense of humour that can get the better of me on ocassion!!

Therefore an integral part of my new Master must be both humour and care/interest in me as a sub and a person.

I have no wish to scene and view this lifestyle as a private issue between two consenting adults.

I have some limited experience of being a sub and a new Master would need patience to aid me find the true sub within and extend my limits. I have some experience of pain; humiliation at varying levels is a big-turn on for me.

In time and with trust established I may be looking for a 24/7 lifstyle.

If you are in a relationship please do not contact me, I am not interested. Please have some respect for the person who knows your quirks, foilbles and annoying habits but puts up with you anyway.


Incidentially many of you have seen my posts over last 10 months so feel free to comment if you think I have misled you or if the ad is misleading. I have no issue with critism, I can give it so I can also take it

 

[RJMasters]

Re: Re: Re: tiny tiny hijack

RJ I understand what you say but its not always easy to follow that course of full disclosure.

There are times when we may withold an aspect for fear of losing or upsetting the other person; or simply because it was in the past and does not appear relevent to the situation they are now in. It is only when these things come to light unexpectedly that hindsight is a wonderful concept and we reach th realms of 'if only..'

The other side of that is at the time of ommission was in a deliberate act or lack of insight?
If its a difficult thing to admit was there ever a 'right time?'

I agree Shy. However I think a person needs to be as honest as they can be.

When I say full disclosure, I do not neccessarily mean details of past experiences as much as I mean full disclosure as to the type of person you are.

I also agree, that none of us know ourselves completely and that as time goes by, we learn more and more about ourselves, not too mention that we change as well. So this is why I said it is important to me when I feel decieved...to acertain if it was deliberate or as you put it..a lack of insight. It means a world of difference to me. It really means I wasn't decieved at all.

-----------------
There are times when we may withold an aspect for fear of losing or upsetting the other person
-----------------

When you say this, this can be a dangerious decision, as it is often my experience that waiting to find out later always seems to be more painful than being upfront...not always, but sometimes. I guess that is why I said that I understand there are times when withholding things, makes sense until a certain level of trust has been reached, however before 100% commitment is made, I think anything you might feel may become an issue should be disclosed. Otherwise you allow a person to become emotionally attached to you, then rely on that emotional attachement to overcome something which should have been disclosed, and I feel this is underhanded and deceptive and if the person can't handle it, their emotional pain is magnified 100 times more than if it was disclosed beforehand. Sure, you run the risk of upsetting or even losing the person by revealing faults within your character, but isn't that kinda of the point to be upfront? A take it or leave it, this is who I am. I may want to change something of who I am, but this is who I am now, and the person you will be making a commitment to. Where we go from this point will be up to us.

which is why I also said...

IMO, the right person for anyone, is the type of person who can accept your faults and is willing to help you overcome them.

I am not trying to be dogmatic about this subject, as I know it is easier said than done. But I think it is something we should strive towards.

The truth is, if someone is willing to accept us for the faults we know we have, then chances are they are the type of person who will stick it out when we discover other things about us we didn't know, and they will be the type of person who can deal with change as well.

 

[RJMasters]

Also just wanted to add...

I think this process of disclosure doesn't happen by just one post or ad....I know you don't think that either. I think the kind of disclosure I am talking about happens over weeks and months. Which I see as the exploring process....

 

[shy slave]

Re: Re: Re: Re: tiny tiny hijack

I am not trying to be dogmatic about this subject, as I know it is easier said than done. But I think it is something we should strive towards.

The truth is, if someone is willing to accept us for the faults we know we have, then chances are they are the type of person who will stick it out when we discover other things about us we didn't know, and they will be the type of person who can deal with change as well.

I never thought you dogmatic, other things Yes, dogmatic No lol

You say the obvious so much better than i Even though I suspect we could both talk at length on many things that do not have a deifinative answer (of course you have the advantage of being able to use the gag, when I go on to much lol)

I agree you cannot disclose everything in one post or meeting, but if you deem it is 100% commitment and they do not, and therefore omit information can you say you were misled ~ other than in the commitment aspect?

I think my overriding thought would be if they withold information, for whatever reason, will they then lie to salvage a friendship( even if the relationship has ended), lie to put themselves in a better light (which can confuse you more) or simply not answer when confronted and asked to explain or enlighten the other person.

I am nosey and love to analyse everything but have found that the answer to the 'why' question is never satifactory. Thus making me wonder if the question is not asked does it allow our own mind to bring answers and conclusions to the 'why' enabling our own peace of mind, without the other persons intervention?

PS when re-reading this noticed i had spelt friendship FIENDSHIP, a freudian slip perhaps lol

 

[graceanne]

Actually, while there are people who are out and out lyers, I think that a lot of misreprisentations are because of how that person sees themselves. If you ask me what I look like I'll tell you short, fat and ok. Most people I talk to will disagree. No one ever sees themselves as others do.

Other 'misrepresentations' are because of safety. I could be accused of misrepresentation by signing things Grace. My name is not Grace, but I dont' care if that's a misrepresentation.

Also, I don't think that personals, or even intro conversations should include things like 'struggle with depression' or things like that. That's the kind of thing that comes up as you get to know a person.

As to the lyers, I personally think that they have really low self esteems. They don't think that anyone would like them as they really are, so they make up the kind of person they want to be. Of course, eventually you're gonna find out, but they don't think that far ahead.

 

[graceanne]

I also wanted to say, real quick, that when I first meet a guy I don't talk at all. Frankly, I can't think of anything to say. But once I'm comfortable with them, I'm a chatterbox. It's not misrepresentation, it's shyness (as hard as that might be to believe about me.)

 

[shy slave]

Waht a pair we make

Your name isn't 'Grace' and I am not 'shy'!!

Just hope RJ & Pure don't want chapter and verse as to the reason we have misrepresented ourselves

I think your right about the liars. Many people with low self-esteem tell lies.

There is an old story called "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty"

Haven't read it for ages but he told fantasy style lies and had low self-esteem. Although if I remember correctly he bought into his own lies, as does the reader for most of the book.

Low self-esteem can cause all kinds of things from people being quiet and withdrawn to them demanding to be centre of attention.

Not sure if thats misrepresentation of themselves as it may come under a nature/nurture debate as to why they lie and /or have low self-esteem

 

[graceanne]

Not sure if thats misrepresentation of themselves as it may come under a nature/nurture debate as to why they lie and /or have low self-esteem

Are you a glutton for punishment? Ok, dumb question. Ok, everyone, we don't need to havea nature/nurture debate.

 

[RJMasters]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tiny tiny hijack

I never thought you dogmatic, other things Yes, dogmatic No lol

Know I might regret this heehe, umm "what other things"?



You say the obvious so much better than i Even though I suspect we could both talk at length on many things that do not have a deifinative answer (of course you have the advantage of being able to use the gag, when I go on to much lol)

Ahh the advantages... ty for the compliment. Thinks you do very well at expressing things and making your thoughts and feelings clear. I enjoy your posts very much.


I agree you cannot disclose everything in one post or meeting, but if you deem it is 100% commitment and they do not, and therefore omit information can you say you were misled ~ other than in the commitment aspect?

Well, I don't think I would be exploring withsomeone, unless there was a 100% commitment agreed upon as a possible outcome, or at least a 100% "Defined" commitment.

lol Don't give me that look....What I mean by "Defined".

Example: I mean two people who for some reason cannot have a 100% commitment, but do desire a relationship with each other to the further extent circumstances will allow...like a LDR. Though limitations may prevent a 100% commitment, they can still be 100% committed to it. (damn I think I confused myself...oh well...you'll sort it out I think).



I think my overriding thought would be if they withold information, for whatever reason, will they then lie to salvage a friendship( even if the relationship has ended), lie to put themselves in a better light (which can confuse you more) or simply not answer when confronted and asked to explain or enlighten the other person.

I am nosey and love to analyse everything but have found that the answer to the 'why' question is never satifactory. Thus making me wonder if the question is not asked does it allow our own mind to bring answers and conclusions to the 'why' enabling our own peace of mind, without the other persons intervention?


I always find "knowing" the "why" to be satisfactory, just might not like it. In the event I may never know the why, I guess I am left to draw my own conclusions, based on actions speaking louder than words...

PS when re-reading this noticed i had spelt friendship FIENDSHIP, a freudian slip perhaps lol

Agrees with both you and graceanne on this subject.

 

[graceanne]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tiny tiny hijack

Agrees with both you and graceanne on this subject.

Well of course you do. That's cause shy slave and I rock! *big cheesy grin*

 

[RJMasters]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tiny tiny hijack

Well of course you do. That's cause shy slave and I rock! *big cheesy grin*

*grabs big cheesy grin and puts it on my pizza....puts in oven for 20 mins at 350 degrees...pulls out......pizza and cuts it up into peices....

Chews on graceanne & shy "thread pizza" with extra cheese...and it taste pretty good...I guess you two do rock...

Hopes AA doesn't find me eating a whole pizza...lol

 

[graceanne]

LOL me, too. Me and shy have been giving him a hard time on another thread, so we're hiding now.

 

[RJMasters]

LOL me, too. Me and shy have been giving him a hard time on another thread, so we're hiding now.

ahhh we better spread out then, cause if he finds us and drops the bomb, he'll get all of us with one shot...

That's a millitary tactic...lol. I feel so much safer now

 

[shy slave]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tiny tiny hijack

Well of course you do. That's cause shy slave and I rock! *big cheesy grin*

Too right we do' unless its against AA then we kinda tease and hide lol.

But thats ok now if he comes looking you ate us!!

Yes its a detour Mr Blonde (XXfor Mr Blonde) but RJ did we taste good!!

Or were we just a little on the sharp side