Mind the Gap--Sex Survey Results

[Pure]

another survey, of over 5000 people finds the gap. it's a comprehensive survey, widely reported (see below).

the old question: why?

is it a matter of acting (Meg Ryan) and gullibility? is it just the standard, macho- self-preening ("i know i made her come") ?

another possibility (they are not mutually exclusive) is that the men might have a highly active sexual partner (male or female) apart from the main relationship.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20101004/sc_livescience/americans**********posedbynewsurvey

excerpt The survey, the National Survey of Sexual Health and Behavior, is one of the most comprehensive studies conducted on these topics in almost two decades, according to the researchers.

The survey also revealed an interesting discrepancy: 85 percent of men report their partner had an orgasm during their last sexual encounter, meanwhile, only 64 percent of women report having had an orgasm. The researchers say this difference is too large to be explained by some men having male partners.

 

[bronzeage]

Men can tell when an orgasm is fake. It's not that difficult.

Men also know there are many reasons a woman fakes an orgasm. The most likely reason is she wants to protect his feelings. She knows he is doing the best he can and is not going to stop until either she cums, or he drops dead.

It's not an insult, it's a gift and a gentleman accepts it graciously.

 

[3113]

Men can tell when an orgasm is fake. It's not that difficult.

Dude, I think you're crediting to all men your experience, savvy, and I.Q. It's not uncommon for intelligent men such as yourself to think that what is obvious and "not that difficult" for you to see must be "not that difficult" or obvious to everyone else. But I seriously doubt that it's "not all that difficult" for "MEN" (meaning all men on Earth), to tell a faked orgasm from a real one as it is for a smart gent like you. For one thing, the man has to care and/or pay attention. For another, he does have to have some experience and intelligence and, alas, not all men do (nor do women for that matter). And, last, he has to have been with a woman who has had a real orgasm. There are many women who have never had an orgasm. And their inexperienced husbands don't know what the real thing looks like on their wife. Or they may think that their wife experiences it differently and that's why it doesn't seem the same as when they did see another woman come.

People are astonishingly credulous, and not all that bright or perceptive, especially if it's something they want to see, believe or hear.

Of course, the easiest explanation for the discrepency is that the men don't want to admit that the lady didn't come, thinking this will reflect badly on their skills in bed. Believing the lady's faked orgasm is real is gentlemanly. Telling an anonymous poll that she came when you know she didn't is fibbing to make yourself seem more Don Juan-ish

 

[oggbashan]

This sort of discrepancy is common when the questions are about sex.

Many years ago, in the Masters and Johnston era, a whole student population of a British University was asked about their sexual relations with other students. The majority of males answered that they had had intercourse with more than one female student. Most of the rest claimed intercourse with one female student. Less than 1% of the males stated that they hadn't had intercourse with a female student.

A slim majority of females answered that they had had intercourse with only one male student. Nearly as many females answered that they hadn't had intercourse with any male students. Even if the tiny percentage of females that admitted to intercourse with more than one male student had spent their whole course copulating they couldn't have made the male students' claims statistically probable. Why?

The male students outnumbered the female students by 5 to 1.

Og

 

[Boota]

I can easily tell if my wife doesn't have an orgasm. She won't let me live it down until I fuck her into oblivion the next time. I actually appreciate the directness. And thankfully it's rare that she doesn't have one.

 

[Pure]

ba //Men can tell when an orgasm is fake. It's not that difficult..... ...if you don't believe it... ask the men!

ba //It's not an insult, it's a gift and a gentleman accepts it graciously.//

ok, in your scene, the man pretends (to her) to believe, as a gracious gesture.

this doesn't explain why he pretends (says) *to the pollster* that he believes she came.

 

[bronzeage]

Dude, I think you're crediting to all men your experience, savvy, and I.Q. It's not uncommon for intelligent men such as yourself to think that what is obvious and "not that difficult" for you to see must be "not that difficult" or obvious to everyone else. But I seriously doubt that it's "not all that difficult" for "MEN" (meaning all men on Earth), to tell a faked orgasm from a real one as it is for a smart gent like you. For one thing, the man has to care and/or pay attention. For another, he does have to have some experience and intelligence and, alas, not all men do (nor do women for that matter). And, last, he has to have been with a woman who has had a real orgasm. There are many women who have never had an orgasm. And their inexperienced husbands don't know what the real thing looks like on their wife. Or they may think that their wife experiences it differently and that's why it doesn't seem the same as when they did see another woman come.

People are astonishingly credulous, and not all that bright or perceptive, especially if it's something they want to see, believe or hear.

Of course, the easiest explanation for the discrepency is that the men don't want to admit that the lady didn't come, thinking this will reflect badly on their skills in bed. Believing the lady's faked orgasm is real is gentlemanly. Telling an anonymous poll that she came when you know she didn't is fibbing to make yourself seem more Don Juan-ish

I never credit all men with my experience, savvy, and I.Q. It's just not realistic.

The kind of sex where one person does not care about the other persons pleasure is not really sex. It's a form of masturbation with another person in the room. That doesn't count for this kind of thing.

Put yourself in the man's position. A woman appears to enjoy what he is doing. It's not the time to stop and say, "Hey, what's wrong?" Of course he wants to believe her display is real, but would expressing doubt help anything at the moment?

I wasn't included in the survey. In my experience, faked orgasms were more common when I was younger. I had a long term girlfriend who faked every single orgasm for the first couple weeks. She was a great actress. We were having a "state of the relationship" discussion (where is this going, what do you want? kind of stuff). I asked out right, why do you keep faking it.

She wanted to know how I could tell. The screaming orgasm she had while bent over the kitchen sink and her pants half way down her thighs was a dead giveaway. I think her situation was common. Her previous lovers were all college boys, who really wanted to please her, but insecurity and nervousness inhibited her. She faked it to spare their feelings and get it all over with. She felt bad about faking with me, but didn't know what else to do.

I told her we would start over and make it right for her. It didn't take long. Her real orgasms were much quieter than the fakes, but her physical reactions were something which couldn't be faked, no matter how she tried. That may be the real key.

It is easier to tell a fake one, after she shows you a real one.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Women fake, men lie, what else is new?

As some woman writer said, if men put half the energy into making love that they do into trying to make her cum, there'd be a lot more female orgasms.

 

[favoritesgoddess]

As some woman writer said, if men put half the energy into making love that they do into trying to make her cum, there'd be a lot more female orgasms.

Amen.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Amen, Amen.

 

[3113]

The screaming orgasm she had while bent over the kitchen sink and her pants half way down her thighs was a dead giveaway.

If such acting was a dead give away to you, then certain women I know who faked, often copying the same quiet shudders as when they really orgasm, would have fooled you. No crazed, faked screams. They tell me no guy ever called them on their fakes, but maybe all those men were being gentlemen.

It was easy for you to know THIS woman faked it, and maybe it's been easy for you to know other women you've been with faked it...but maybe that says less about your talent at spotting fake orgasms then the poor ability of the women to fake it.

I wouldn't be so cavalier in saying that it's "not that difficult" to tell. After all, if a woman did fake it and fooled you, how would you now know it?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Listen you, if you keep giving away the Secret Girl Secrets, you're going to find your lipstick license revoked.

Just a friendly warning, okay?

 

[3113]

Listen you, if you keep giving away the Secret Girl Secrets, you're going to find your lipstick license revoked.

Just a friendly warning, okay?

Oh, crap. I'm sorry. I'll try to do some damage control here....

A-hem. "Gosh, you guys are so right. I don't know why we women ever try to fool you men. You can always tell...."

(How was that? I promise not to leak any more secrets! Please don't take away my nylons!)

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oh, crap. I'm sorry. I'll try to do some damage control here....

A-hem. "Gosh, you guys are so right. I don't know why we women ever try to fool you men. You can always tell...."

(How was that? I promise not to leak any more secrets! Please don't take away my nylons!)

Better, you might get away with a short probation period.

Under my personal supervision, natch

 

[bronzeage]

If such acting was a dead give away to you, then certain women I know who faked, often copying the same quiet shudders as when they really orgasm, would have fooled you. No crazed, faked screams. They tell me no guy ever called them on their fakes, but maybe all those men were being gentlemen.

It was easy for you to know THIS woman faked it, and maybe it's been easy for you to know other women you've been with faked it...but maybe that says less about your talent at spotting fake orgasms then the poor ability of the women to fake it.

I wouldn't be so cavalier in saying that it's "not that difficult" to tell. After all, if a woman did fake it and fooled you, how would you now know it?

Why would a guy call her on it? He has had his orgasm and has nothing to gain by it except the chance of being told he just wasn't that good.

If a woman wants to make that kind of effort to protect a man's ego, only a fool is going to spoil it.

All my relationships have been from several months to many years. I don't ever recall a one night stand, even though some of them were supposed to be. In a long term relationship, it can't be a good thing, no matter how well intentioned, especially if that is way sex usually ends.

If a person has casual sex with someone and never sees them again, what difference does it make if the orgasm is fake or she doesn't even bother to fake it at all? In my experience, first time sex is never the best it could be, no matter how much excitement a new partner generates.

Besides all this, no one asked the men if they ever faked an orgasm.

 

[Stella_Omega]

When men are young, they sometimes have to fake not having had an orgasm thirty seconds into the deed.

As they get older, yeah. Sometimes faking it happens. But most men are pleased to last forever like that (especially with the memory of those thirty second wonders of their youth) and I've known men who just sigh and say; "dammit, not happening tonight."

because, for many women and men, our partner's fun is kinda important and if we have accomplished that, some of us feel just fine letting our own desires slide for the night.

 

[bronzeage]

When men are young, they sometimes have to fake not having had an orgasm thirty seconds into the deed.

As they get older, yeah. Sometimes faking it happens. But most men are pleased to last forever like that (especially with the memory of those thirty second wonders of their youth) and I've known men who just sigh and say; "dammit, not happening tonight."

because, for many women and men, our partner's fun is kinda important and if we have accomplished that, some of us feel just fine letting our own desires slide for the night.

This is one of the benefits of a satisfying relationship.

In truth, a man is more likely to fake his second or third orgasm of the night. One gets something started and she's enthusiastic about it. It's the reverse situation. There is no need to tell her it's just not going to happen.

 

[ciaddict]

Men can tell when an orgasm is fake. It's not that difficult.

Men also know there are many reasons a woman fakes an orgasm. The most likely reason is she wants to protect his feelings. She knows he is doing the best he can and is not going to stop until either she cums, or he drops dead.

It's not an insult, it's a gift and a gentleman accepts it graciously.

What a great discussion! And a topic I have asked a couple of friends about in the last year or so....mostly because I'm just not that experienced. I've been married three times, divorced three times...and single for the last 18 years. About three years ago I experienced my very first orgasm, with the help of a lovely vibrator. Why did I fake it through three marriages? Simple...I thought there must be something wrong with me and, as you say, I wanted to protect their feelings...and sometimes just to end it already!

My question to my friends was...how could my ex's NOT know? Because now I know what happens when I come and what I did then is not what I do now. Did they know? Not one of them ever called me on it, although Ex#3 did ask a couple of times (but only a couple!). Ex#1 and I were teenagers and neither of us knew what we were doing, but Ex#2 and #3 are a bit of a headscratcher to me. And no, of course I never told them what I needed them to do for me to come...how could I when I didn't know myself?

Not too long ago my youngest daughter went to visit her father (Ex#3) and told hiim all about my new-found love of vibrators...AND that I had never experienced an orgasm before I found them. He begged to differ...said he had the scars to prove it. Ummm...what?! Don't know what scars he was talking about, but they sure didn't come from me. I did tell my daughter, though, that it's probably not a good idea to share this information with men I've actually had sex with. LOL

 

[Pure]

to ba; to doc., 3113

fine postings!

baWhy would a guy call her on it? He has had his orgasm and has nothing to gain by it except the chance of being told he just wasn't that good.

he doesn't 'call her on it.'

but why does he tell the pollster, "in my last encounter, she came."

==


dr_mabeuse //Women fake, men lie, what else is new?//

i think much faking IS new, esp the highly dramatic kind, which ba says doesn't fool him.

faking, i think, is the product of a) knowledge and b) pressure to be sexually adequate. both of these are tremendously heightened since Masters and Johnson (1966) described the vaginal contractions, toe curl and so on.

now 3113 mentions the alternative, "quiet shudders", as applied to some.

this info, though solid, does NOT increase the ability of males to detect; rather the opposite. a woman knows how she must appear.

i think males will have to concede they have, over the years, and despite extensive studies [discussions at the local bar], gained no reliable indicators of the partner's state. when they do know, it's because she told him.

i think the satisfaction of a woman's desire is inherently unknowable. it can only be indirectly guessed at for example, does she stick around?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I freely admit that at least one woman has later told me that she faked. You live and learn. And when it's 3 am and she is more tired than she lets on, human considerations (such as the limits of physical fatigue) are going to affect things.

However, I agree with Bronze regarding it being a considerate act, not an insult. She fakes because she cares (at least to some extent...how much depends on the relationship, of course).

 

[Boota]

My friend told a girl once, "Don't fake your orgasms. I don't care if you have one or not. You have the same amount of time I do and what you do with it is your business."

They've been married seven years.

 

[Stella_Omega]

They've been married seven years.

It's a good start.

 

[Loring2]

Differences

I was married to the beautiful lady for 28 years and having an orgasm was part of having sex but sometimes Mary would say to me "It wasn't so good for me tonight but I always like having you inside of me Steve , it feels so good when you're there. As we grew older this became more common.

We had much laughter about it when sometimes it wasn't as good for me as it once had been.

We adopted our own theme song.. it was Peggy Lee's "..if that's all there is ... let's keep dancing"; but this lady knew how to use her pussy. Man did she ever.

I miss her in case you're wondering .

Loring

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I have a female avatar in Second Life, and I go out as "Sheila" (name changed to protect the guilty) as a woman and have sex with male avatars. The practice is known as "gender swapping" and isn't that uncommon in SL, though reliable numbers are hard to come by (estimates range from ~10 to 85% of the SL female avatars are run by men. I tend to think the lower figure's probably more accurate than the latter, and--excluding shemales and creatures of indeterminate gender--might be lower still). Women use male avatars too, though probably not as much as men use females.

The practice and experience of gender-swapping are quite remarkable and extremely educational, and someday I'll have to go into more detail about the whole thing. But it surprises me how much I get into being a woman; how my tastes and values and desires change. Of course I'm aware that the woman I become is basically my own, male conception of what a woman is (or maybe what I'd like her to be), but it's amazing how often I'm surprised by my own spontaneous "female" wants and attitudes when I'm play Sheila. I experience men in a way I've never experienced them before, even in my real-life forays into homosexuality.

One of the most annoying things men do sexually--and here I'm reasonably sure SL mimics RL--is focus obsessively on making Sheila cum. They treat her as if she's some sort of balky machine and her erogenous zones are so many buttons and switches and levers that, if operated correctly, will spit out an orgasm. So they're all over her, doing this, then that, then the other thing, then back to that, and this, and this and that at the same time... It's all so not-what-she-wants in terms of a sexual experience. It's alienating, dehumanizing, and ultimately silly.

I mean, it's easy to understand why men are so obsessed with orgasms. Climax and ejaculation are the whole point of sex for men, the natural point of completion, and a man who doesn't cum is frustrated, tense, angry, and probably feeling a lot worse than if he hadn't had sex at all. Men not only project their own need for climax onto women, but they expect her orgasm to be the same as theirs: a sudden and dramatic explosion of rapture, and, judging from a trend in porn, preferably with the ejaculation of fluids.

I'm as guilty as anyone of promulgating this whole point of view in my fiction. I almost always have my women orgasm during sex, and orgasm like men--loud, tight, and intense. It's just a lot more dramatic and erotically satisfying than describing what really might happen.