Milk $5; Bread $3; Hamburger $3, Gas $3++ Thanks Ethanol!

[amicus]

Subsidies to Corn growers is having side effects that are raising the cost of living of those most unable to pay.

These are approximate US prices and not unusual in other places but they do reflect a huge increase in prices from previous levels.

The higher prices are a direct result of Government intervention in the market place and the continuing efforts of the radical left to control energy production and limit growth and expansion in the United States.

Someday, in the near future, I hope, the electorate at large will realize who the real villains are in the energy crisis.

I ain't gonna hold my breath.

Amicus....

 

[colddiesel]

Subsidies

What do you expect if your 'socialist 'government subsidises its farmers!!

 

[amicus]

What do you expect if your 'socialist 'government subsidises its farmers!!

~~~

Thank you for your response...cryptic though it is...

There is a long history of subsidies in the United State. As I recall it really picked up steam after the 'dust bowl' and the Great Depression of 1929, but then my studies are long in the past and it may have preceded even that.

The economics and history classes I took, all justified the necessity of certain subsidies in agriculture and it took many years after the studies were complete to comprehend how such things interrupted and distorted the market place.

I am a student of such things, not an expert, but I am aghast at the efforts to macro manage an economy wherein every experiment has previously been disastrous...

This will be no different; an abject failure and people will suffer for it.

Thas what troubles me, my friend...

Amicus...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

I think most of the farm aid got started when Roosevelt took office. Well into the 60s and 70s people were paid not to grow crops (Soil Bank). Then Big Agriculture learned it was cheaper to bribe local politicians to change the zoning laws to prohibit various agricultural endeavors.

My father in law was a farmer. At the end of his career farm agents pestered him relentlessly for livestock documentation, etc. And in a few years all the local farms were kaput.

 

[amicus]

Thanks JBJ, haven't seen you around for a while.

Reminds me of just how vast and complicated this entire subject is, and how inter-related to the communal trend that seems to be engulfing EU and the US.

I sense another dark ages approaching...sighs...

Amicus...

 

[keeblercrumb]

Subsidies to Corn growers is having side effects that are raising the cost of living of those most unable to pay.

These are approximate US prices and not unusual in other places but they do reflect a huge increase in prices from previous levels.

The higher prices are a direct result of Government intervention in the market place and the continuing efforts of the radical left to control energy production and limit growth and expansion in the United States.

Someday, in the near future, I hope, the electorate at large will realize who the real villains are in the energy crisis.

I ain't gonna hold my breath.

Amicus....

Thank you! The Radical Left is far more extensive than I imagined.... Not only are they obviously controlling the current GWB administration (and you want to elect another one?), apparently they are all over those ethenal producing "blue" states...

Who knew?



-KC

 

[amicus]

Thank you! The Radical Left is far more extensive than I imagined.... Not only are they obviously controlling the current GWB administration (and you want to elect another one?), apparently they are all over those ethenal producing "blue" states...

Who knew?



-KC

We all knew KC, just powerless to stop it. Forty years of liberal controlled senate and house, all agency appointments, entire beaurocracy is radical left and has infected and corrupted everything...

such a deal...they even packed the federal courts, at all levels all the way up to the SC and only a miracle will tip the balance back to the rational and constitutional.

such a deal...


amicus...

 

[keeblercrumb]

We all knew KC, just powerless to stop it. Forty years of liberal controlled senate and house, all agency appointments, entire beaurocracy is radical left and has infected and corrupted everything...

such a deal...they even packed the federal courts, at all levels all the way up to the SC and only a miracle will tip the balance back to the rational and constitutional.

such a deal...

amicus...

Oh you are now just being silly.... All of your conservative hero's Ronny, et al, were "powerless" to over come all those liberals in congress... And when the "Contract for America" ran congress? It was all those entrenched commies in the agriculture department which kept it going, I suppose.

And the folks who directly benefited from the government's largesse? The agricultural corporations whose rights you constantly wring your hands about? All those agricultural "Blue" states?

The late truly radical (at times) folksinger Phil Ochs had this to say about what defines a "liberal" It is.. "someone is 10% to the left of center in good times and 10% to the right of center when it effects them personally".

And Amicus... it is even more true about "conservatives" and government spending... They are utterly opposed to the "handouts" to all those lazy poor people but lobby the hell out of the government for money when it effects them personally.

Go ahead. Go out to the Great Plain "blue" states and tell them the deal is off, no more agricultural subsidies.... and see if you get your ridiculous ass elected.

Go to ultra-conservative Idaho and tell them you will be closing the multi-billion dollar Idaho National Engineering Laboratory because it is a radical liberal government "handout" and subsidy for the private power industry.

Even your hero robber barons of the 19th century (which predates the agriculture department completely, radical liberal or not) brought manipulating the government for their own personal benefit to an art form.

Such a deal.


-KC

 

[cloudy]

Thank you! The Radical Left is far more extensive than I imagined.... Not only are they obviously controlling the current GWB administration (and you want to elect another one?), apparently they are all over those ethenal producing "blue" states...

Who knew?



-KC

shhhhh! It's supposed to be a secret!

"What are we going to do tonight, Brain?"

"Same thing we do every night, Pinky: try to take over the world!"

 

[Liar]

Just a question... how much milk for $5?

I was first a little bit stunned at seeing a pack o milk going for more than a loaf of bread in your subject line. But then I remembered that you probably don't buy milk in Liter tetras o'er there.

For reference, here's the pricing situation in pinko commie Sweden.

I pay $0.8/litre (or $3/gallon) for milk.

$3 for a (good) loaf of bread sounds about the same as we pay here. At the supermarket, that is. Fresh from a local bakery is usually cheaper. (So why anyone buy the mass produced food factory bread is beyond me)

And the price of a hamburger is the same as the length of string. Depends on the burger. I'll pay ten bux for a good one. But no more than a dollar for a small McDonalds suckfest. And that's only if I'm hung over and 5 AM and it's the only fast food joint open.

Gas is not comparable (yours is dirt cheap), but we already know what, and you live in a much more automobile dependant economy than I do so that's only natural.

 

[cloudy]

Just a question... how much milk for $5?

I was first a little bit stunned at seeing a pack o milk going for more than a loaf of bread in your subject line. But then I remembered that you probably don't buy milk in Liter tetras o'er there.

For reference, here's the pricing situation in pinko commie Sweden.

I pay $0.8/litre (or $3/gallon) for milk.

$3 for a (good) loaf of bread sounds about the same as we pay here. At the supermarket, that is. Fresh from a local bakery is usually cheaper. (So why anyone buy the mass produced food factory bread is beyond me)

And the price of a hamburger is the same as the length of string. Depends on the burger. I'll pay ten bux for a good one. But no more than a dollar for a small McDonalds suckfest. And that's only if I'm hung over and 5 AM and it's the only fast food joint open.

Gas is not comparable (yours is dirt cheap), but we already know what, and you live in a much more automobile dependant economy than I do so that's only natural.

here, a gallon of milk runs right around $4.75, and a loaf of the bread I usually buy is about $2.15.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Government subsidies to speculative business ventures go back right to the beginning, and some of the founders were recipients.

Politicians view the fact that no private individual or entity is willing to risk their own money on a rent-seeker's economically-unjustifiable venture as evidence that they should step in with somebody else's money - yours! Indeed, some of the authorizing laws even require any recipients to be "not consistently profitable" and "lack a proven business model." (I'm not kidding!)

 

[DesertPirate]

We all knew KC, just powerless to stop it. Forty years of liberal controlled senate and house, all agency appointments, entire beaurocracy is radical left and has infected and corrupted everything...

such a deal...they even packed the federal courts, at all levels all the way up to the SC and only a miracle will tip the balance back to the rational and constitutional.

such a deal...


amicus...

What is really sad is a leftie will deny that there was any "liberal court packing" during the 20 years of Roosevelt/Truman. The retirement cycle has kept most of them to the left. The only possible balance will be 20 years of the other side have ing the Presidency, House, and Senate.

 

[cloudy]

What is really sad is a leftie will deny that there was any "liberal court packing" during the 20 years of Roosevelt/Truman. The retirement cycle has kept most of them to the left. The only possible balance will be 20 years of the other side have ing the Presidency, House, and Senate.

Amicus, is that you?

Roosevelt/Truman???? Good god...don't you think that's a bit of a damn stretch?

Roosevelt was damn near 70 years ago, and Truman was close to 60. If you carry a grudge that damn long, you have issues.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

This is so sad because a bit of stone-throwing, started by Amicus, is confusing some real serious points.

Politicians, red or blue, don't ever take the time to research scientific proposals and, furthermore, the pseudo-science is pumped out by (red or blue) agitprop NGOs with a cause and a scant regard for the rigors of fair research.

Ethanol/ biofuels are scientifically shown to be a pretty lousy way to reduce CO2 - if that's your objective. The amount of forested land you would have to destroy to produce farmland for biofuel crops would mean that global methane/CO2 emissions would rise substantially.

Yet again, a serious research topic is being hijacked for illiterate, but profitable political purposes by vested interests.

To escape from carboniferous oil for our overpowered SUVs - the future lies in hydrogen cells and urban electric vehicles. But that's not headline-grabbing enough for our politicos and the NGO parasites that feed on their carcases.

 

[DesertPirate]

Amicus, is that you?

Roosevelt/Truman???? Good god...don't you think that's a bit of a damn stretch?

Roosevelt was damn near 70 years ago, and Truman was close to 60. If you carry a grudge that damn long, you have issues.

Not a stretch at all. Half of those judges retired during the Kennedy/Johnson terms. What kind replaced them? More lefties! If you look at the whole time frame somewhere around 65% to 75% of the Roosevelt/Truman appointees were replaced by Kennedy, Johnson, or Carter, many of their appointees were replaced by Clinton. There is a left tilt to all Federal benches for this reason.

 

[cloudy]

Not a stretch at all. Half of those judges retired during the Kennedy/Johnson terms. What kind replaced them? More lefties! If you look at the whole time frame somewhere around 65% to 75% of the Roosevelt/Truman appointees were replaced by Kennedy, Johnson, or Carter, many of their appointees were replaced by Clinton. There is a left tilt to all Federal benches for this reason.

Well, it appears that us "lefties" are in position for a reason, don'tcha think?

 

[DesertPirate]

This is so sad because a bit of stone-throwing, started by Amicus, is confusing some real serious points.

Politicians, red or blue, don't ever take the time to research scientific proposals and, furthermore, the pseudo-science is pumped out by (red or blue) agitprop NGOs with a cause and a scant regard for the rigors of fair research.

Ethanol/ biofuels are scientifically shown to be a pretty lousy way to reduce CO2 - if that's your objective. The amount of forested land you would have to destroy to produce farmland for biofuel crops would mean that global methane/CO2 emissions would rise substantially.

Yet again, a serious research topic is being hijacked for illiterate, but profitable political purposes by vested interests.

To escape from carboniferous oil for our overpowered SUVs - the future lies in hydrogen cells and urban electric vehicles. But that's not headline-grabbing enough for our politicos and the NGO parasites that feed on their carcases.

There is a great bumper sticker put out by the Golf Course Superintendants Association: Recycle air, plant a tree!
As the son of a Proffesor in a college of AG and grandson of farmers on both sides I have a bit of knowledge on the subject.
If there was a way to pay for it and turn the farmers in the US loose, they could feed the world. Simple fact, that is how productive they can be.
That loaf of bread you pay $2 - $3 for? the wheat farmer gets about 7 cents of that price. That is why it's so hard for the small farms to survive.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I have a hypothesis about why judges are liberal. I've been to court maybe 1000 times, and observed them closely.

Judges usually come from the ranks of ner do well defense attorneys. The conventional wisdom asserts that rich attorneys do not want the cut in pay that judges earn. Successful prosecutors become politicians, usually governors or senators or mayors. Rudi was a prosecutor.

So judges are often poor defense attorneys who get appointed to the job. Poor defense attorneys relate to criminals, who are usually poor, too. They think the poor criminal and themselves got a raw deal in life's lottery.

 

[Katyusha]

Just a question... how much milk for $5?

Where I live it's about $3.85-$4.30 or so for a full gallon, depending on where you buy it.

 

[amicus]

Most of the folks on this forum are smart enough to recognize my thesis, namely the ecological activists over the past half century have influenced government and regulationof the energy to the point of having created a crisis.

There would be no need for corn and wheat and other cereal grains to be used for fuel instead of food for humans and feed for animals had the energy industry been left free to supply the demand for oil and natural gas. Nor would be be dependent on the price gouging by OPEC nations and oil cartels.

But you wont fucking face the fact that the policies near and dear to your heart, the left wing, liberal, conservationist philosophy of the past half century have bankrupted a nation and a now starving the population.

You are much happier to keep your stupid heads in the sand and keep the socialist dream afloat for just a while longer.

As I said earlier, if the American people ever truly realize the evil of the left, the Democrat Party will never hold another public office again.

Amicus...

 

[cloudy]

Most of the folks on this forum are smart enough to recognize my thesis, namely the ecological activists over the past half century have influenced government and regulationof the energy to the point of having created a crisis.

There would be no need for corn and wheat and other cereal grains to be used for fuel instead of food for humans and feed for animals had the energy industry been left free to supply the demand for oil and natural gas. Nor would be be dependent on the price gouging by OPEC nations and oil cartels.

But you wont fucking face the fact that the policies near and dear to your heart, the left wing, liberal, conservationist philosophy of the past half century have bankrupted a nation and a now starving the population.

You are much happier to keep your stupid heads in the sand and keep the socialist dream afloat for just a while longer.

As I said earlier, if the American people ever truly realize the evil of the left, the Democrat Party will never hold another public office again.

Amicus...

Yep, we're ebil, allright. Ebil right down to the bone.

Resistance is futile. You shall be assimilated.

eta: you know, ami...its impossible to take you seriously when you characterize more than 50% of this country's population as "evil."

 

[amicus]

Ah, my dear retarded cannibal, my little fleeting running cloud...alas, but should we assume a relatively prone position intead of upright and bristlely, I postulate the situation could be resolved, ahm, over time.

an amorous amicus...

 

[Katyusha]

And Amicus... it is even more true about "conservatives" and government spending... They are utterly opposed to the "handouts" to all those lazy poor people but lobby the hell out of the government for money when it effects them personally.

This is probably the truest statement regarding political leanings that I have ever read, because it is true of EVERYONE, but most especially of those who are too far to the right AND those who are too far to the left.

Case in point: in my experience (read: of the people I know and talk to regularly), those who are the most ardent supporters of government-funded healthcare are those who are currently uninsured because they can't afford the premiums, and those who are the most ardent supporters of leaving our system the way it is are those who currently have no problem at all affording a kick-ass policy.

The rest of us (read: those of us who can afford insurance but not particularly easily) believe that neither side sees the issue clearly at all. Government intervention is needed, of course, but the type of intervention that the it-is-the-government's-responsibility-to-provide-insurance-for-everyone side is just as detrimental to us as the leave-everything-as-it-is-the-government-will-only-make-it-worse camp is.

This country is so polarized because the more one side rails against this that and the other, the further away from center the other side gets, and vice versa. Moderates, who are fewer and farther between these days, are, IMO, the only ones who can effectively solve anything at all anymore, if only because they tend to be the only ones who can see both sides of an issue regardless of what their personal feelings are.

This is why I don't like the labels...they imply that everything wrong with this country is the fault of a single side, when it's actually the fault of both.

 

[amicus]

No, Katyusha, no. Simply that, no.

You wandered into the trap of class warfare and Marxian Dialctic, that of polarization to create conflict.

There is one definition of human freedom and one only. I cannot be diluted nor diminished or abrogated and still be defined as such.

It may well be your belief that government must, 'intervene', to maintain order and prosperity, but it is simply not truth and not inherent in human freedom.

I am not purposely being argumentative but the scenario you describe, the polarization you see as inherent, is not and is not an essential ingredient in a free society or a free economy.

What you extend, as most do, is a hopeless outlook for the future and that mindset is extremely destructive of human pyschological health and it ain't good for ya, kid.

Amicus...