Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters in Oregon

[snugglestruggle]

Once you take over property you are at the very least trespassing if not worse. The moment you threaten violence you have committed a crime whether or not you shoot anybody or not.

He was reaching for his gun or at least that's how it appears to me. You can't wait until it's pointed in your direction. Bullets are too fast for that. Once they make that move the decision is made. IT has to be.

Now I'm all for people doing everything they can to avoid things escalating. Aside from the fact that it's annoying that I know good and damn well I would have been shot two weeks ago if I pulled this shit it wouldn't have hurt my feelings if the police had retreated to behind their cars and relative safety while negotiating with him. Should they HAVE to do that? Nope. But erring on the side of everybody getting out a live and thus caution is something I can support.

I don't think we will ever know for sure unless there is some kind of hearing where all parties give testimony and some 3rd party sorts it out. It's done and over with, the days of believing the government version without question sadly have long passed.

This incident reminds me of Ruby Ridge in some ways, I just hope it doesn't create another Tim McVeigh. Agreed, everybody getting out alive is always a preferable outcome.

Well clearly if his intent was to kill agents ramming them with his vehicle was his best option vs using a cross draw of a firearm from under his open jacket, while in knee deep snow.

I agree he had a death wish but at the same time I am of the opinion that no law enforcement agent fed, state or city should be shooting down American citizens unless they're either 1) black or 2) black

FYP, YW.

Why do you hate black people? Oh wait, I forgot your Irish.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I don't think we will ever know for sure unless there is some kind of hearing where all parties give testimony and some 3rd party sorts it out. It's done and over with, the days of believing the government version without question sadly have long passed.

This incident reminds me of Ruby Ridge in some ways, I just hope it doesn't create another Tim McVeigh. Agreed, everybody getting out alive is always a preferable outcome.

I'm judging at the moment based on the video. I don't believe in blind faith in the government but they do get benefit of the doubt and in this case (thus far) they win without it.

 

[phrodeau]

Nowadays, crashing cars is no guarantee of killing anybody. It's a big selling point with car salesmen nationwide.

 

[sigh]

As far as I know thinking about committing a crime are 2 different things. Until you cross that threshold were your actively doing something which you can be prosecuted for, yes.

Example, the feds know of several radical mosques where violent jihad is preached against America all the time , yet the feds take no action. Why?

We're getting to a point where every crime is looked at to see if it can be prosecuted under terrorism. It's used more and more as a tactic to give the Government more power and curtail civilians rights.




Well clearly if his intent was to kill agents ramming them with his vehicle was his best option vs using a cross draw of a firearm from under his open jacket, while in knee deep snow.

I agree he had a death wish but at the same time I am of the opinion that no law enforcement agent fed, state or city should be shooting down American citizens unless they're either 1) being attacked or 2) a gun is drawn/pointed in their direction.

I never suggested his intent was to kill agents. I even noted that he swerved to avoid hitting an officer, which is what landed him in deep snow. After viewing the video, it's clear his intent was first to get away, first by speeding away from the initial traffic stop, and then by attempting to drive around the roadblock. When that failed, he went to plan B, which he'd already described publicly, and then fulfilled by refusing to allow himself to be caged.

This has nothing to do with mosques and the FBI's response (or lack thereof) to their jihadist teachings. This was a heat-of-the-moment encounter. There was no higher strategy playing out here (hell, the shooter was OSP, not FBI). These were men with guns facing off during an intense encounter. I doubt the FBI wanted anybody killed at all. Why make martyrs out of criminals? There's no win in that.

Oh, and they weren't just "thinking about committing a crime" (or even preaching about committing a crime). They'd already committed numerous crimes, and had clearly crossed the threshold to include activities for which they could be prosecuted.

 

[OjosMojo]

Grand juries in both Ferguson and Cleveland found the respective officers who shot Michael Brown and Tamir Rice unindictable, and no doubt a Deschutes County grand jury will/would do the same concerning the officer who shot Finicum.

Why is that, progressives?

 

[Que]

The whole thing is retarded. I don't see how any of this from the beginning would have any impact on what it is that these yahoos were trying to accomplish.

The people that do not agree with their point of view aren't going to be the least bit persuaded or sympathetic based on their behavior. People who generally do agree with them aren't getting any particular new message and I don't even understand what message it is they're trying to convey.

I would guess that I am probably on the same side of the fence with the wackos as far as what I think the role of federal government is in should be in managing what should be state lands. If I have no idea what they're after I can't imagine that the average person that doesn't even care about western lands has any clue from their standoff.

Now I'm seeing social media nonsense suggesting that the feds or out to get this guy in the they were just out to assassinate in which is bull this feds very well know what's going to happen if they have another Ruby Ridge or Waco they aren't looking for the fight.

Union you look at the last stand off at the Bundy ranch the feds certainly I exercised restraint and didn't shoot anyone. Perhaps the wackos assume this time that the feds would do the same. I really don't think the feds wanted another martyr. Which is what I'm already seeing on social media

 

[Sean Renaud]

Grand juries in both Ferguson and Cleveland found the respective officers who shot Michael Brown and Tamir Rice unindictable, and no doubt a Deschutes County grand jury will/would do the same concerning the officer who shot Finicum.

Why is that, progressives?

Ultimately because the game is rigged.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The whole thing is retarded. I don't see how any of this from the beginning would have any impact on what it is that these yahoos were trying to accomplish.

The people that do not agree with their point of view aren't going to be the least bit persuaded or sympathetic based on their behavior. People who generally do agree with them aren't getting any particular new message and I don't even understand what message it is they're trying to convey.

I would guess that I am probably on the same side of the fence with the wackos as far as what I think the role of federal government is in should be in managing what should be state lands. If I have no idea what they're after I can't imagine that the average person that doesn't even care about western lands has any clue from their standoff.

Now I'm seeing social media nonsense suggesting that the feds or out to get this guy in the they were just out to assassinate in which is bull this feds very well know what's going to happen if they have another Ruby Ridge or Waco they aren't looking for the fight.

Union you look at the last stand off at the Bundy ranch the feds certainly I exercised restraint and didn't shoot anyone. Perhaps the wackos assume this time that the feds would do the same. I really don't think the feds wanted another martyr. Which is what I'm already seeing on social media

The same thing any long term protest has. If giving you what you want is less troublesome than ignoring you and hoping you go away you do that.

 

[Hard_Rom]

It is entirely possible to be a bleeding heart lefty liberal and support law and order. You can cry your bleeding heart out at the social conditions which have young black men acting out aggressions on police and paying for it with their lives. And yet not indict police for putting multiple rounds in to a youth.

When the black youth is completely unarmed (not even a toy gun) and gets it in the back that is murder. When he is a huge motherfucker who punches a cop or won't drop the nine all jacked up, it isn't murder. It's a homicide. Slight difference.

Canada just convicted a cop for shooting a knife wielding druggie. He was justified in shooting the kid first time. But then shot again and killed him. That got him convicted.

Cops shooting black kids is a symptom not a cause. Cause comes before effect. Natural law.

Law and order hippy that's me!

 

[phrodeau]

(edited)

Now I'm seeing social media nonsense suggesting that the feds or out to get this guy in the they were just out to assassinate in which is bull this feds very well know what's going to happen if they have another Ruby Ridge or Waco they aren't looking for the fight.

Union you look at the last stand off at the Bundy ranch the feds certainly I exercised restraint and didn't shoot anyone.

Are you Sarah Palin's speechwriter?

 

[Hard_Rom]

Are you Sarah Palin's speechwriter?

That's a low blow!

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Newly released documents show the four remaining occupiers at an Oregon wildlife refuge are facing charges.

An indictment unsealed Thursday names a total of 16 defendants, including standoff leader Ammon Bundy and other occupiers who were arrested last week.

CBS News' Paula Reid reports that they are all charged with one count of conspiracy to impede officers of the U.S. This indictment is mostly a formality and takes the place of holding a preliminary hearing.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ammon-bundy-15-others-in-oregon-standoff-formally-indicted/

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Last holdout in custody.

 

[Disgustipated]

So much for them going out dying.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Some people involved in the negotiation had been concerned the deal might not go through at all because Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy was arrested Wednesday night. Bundy was originally planned to be present at the surrender, OPB's John Sepulvado says.

Bundy was charged with conspiracy and assault on a federal officer over his 2014 standoff with federal agents at his Nevada ranch, The Associated Press reported Thursday.

"Cliven Bundy was traveling to Oregon to raise support for his sons and four militants still holding out at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge when FBI agents arrested him at the Portland airport," Sepulvado reported for our Newscast unit.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...pier-refusing-to-leave-oregon-wildlife-refuge

 

[Aglaopheme]

The FBI arrested Cliven Bundy while he was enroute to support the last holdouts.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/nevada_rancher_cliven_bundy_de.html

Cliven Bundy, the Nevada rancher who touched off one armed showdown with federal authorities and applauded another started in Oregon by his sons, was arrested late Wednesday at Portland International Airport and faces federal charges related to the 2014 standoff at his ranch.

Bundy, 74, was booked into the downtown Multnomah County jail at 10:54 p.m.

He faces a conspiracy charge to interfere with a federal officer -- the same charge lodged against two of his sons, Ammon and Ryan, for their role in the Jan. 2 takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns. He also faces weapons charges.

 

[Aglaopheme]

Beat me to it.....

 

[jaF0]

I think this Schmuck's trying to build an insanity defense. His latest lawsuit should be handed back to him to use as the toilet paper it is.

 

[phrodeau]

Which one is nuttier?

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/fskdbiuy9kmudo4lfisz.jpg

 

[Disgustipated]

LOL @ the poor dumbassess

Oregon standoff defendant challenges federal judge's oath of office in lawsuit

 

[coati]

I hope the Bundy clan and their "revolutionary" supporters spend a lot of time in prison, and are required to pay full restitution for their damages. Similar to when the left wing felt entitled to take up armed revolution in the late 60s and 70s, this right wing movement to turn public lands over to welfare cowboys, at gunpoint, must be stopped in its tracks.

 

[phrodeau]

I hope the Bundy clan and their "revolutionary" supporters spend a lot of time in prison, and are required to pay full restitution for their damages. Similar to when the left wing felt entitled to take up armed revolution in the late 60s and 70s, this right wing movement to turn public lands over to welfare cowboys, at gunpoint, must be stopped in its tracks.

Not to mention the $1 million plus grazing fees.