Microcosms: Is Lit reflective of society or is Lit a society?

[KillerMuffin]

Lit is a microcosm of humanity. But what part? We have a gathering of individuals from all backgrounds with all interests from all over the world. We all have three distinct things in common, but that's the end of universal commonality. We like sex stories, we're familiar with English and we have Internet access. Our differences are as staggering as they are interesting. We have people from every Continent except Antarctica here. We have a mass of religious beliefs, an almost antagonistic number of political views, and a more colorful group of personalities couldn't be found outside of cyberspace.

A lot of people have accused this board of being "cliquish" as if it's a bad thing. Is it?

It's human nature to pull into groups of like mindedness. We have a number of cliques here. It makes us more comfortable. We have a couple of groups who are here only to have fun and participate in sexual banter. We have groups who are here only to bash Americans. We have groups who want to debate issues. We have groups who are interested in talking about human relationships between each other and themselves.


Like all societies Lit has written and unwritten rules. These are the written ones:

1. No spam.
2. No posting of another's personal information.
3. No threats.

We also have some unwritten ones that are subject to change at any time based one who is here, and who has left. These understood rules are also different from group to group. A person here solely to have fun has a different understand of the unwritten rules than a person here to debate or argue. Here's a few that I've figured out:

1. Deal honestly with fellow members.
2. Do not bring PM or email gossip onto the board as a whole.
3. Do not act disrespectfully to other members.
4. Do not carry on as if one is the best thing to happen to the 'Net.

Some groups observe more rules, such as be nice to each other. Others observe them differently, be forthright in expressing negative opinions.

Sometimes these groups clash because none of these cliques have firmly drawn lines. There are no borders at Lit. Most of us belong to more than one group and feel comfortable posting with a number of different mindsets. Like all human activities groups come into conflict with each other, particularly when an individual group member or other does something or behaves in a way that's not accepted by the Lit society at large. You can bring your own for instances.

Is the General Board a reflection of human reality or is it a part of human reality? Do we showcase society or did we create a society? What kind of scale is our "society:" global, local, large, small...? Do cliques fit into this "society" or do they destroy it?
Lit has a defacto government, Laurel and Manu, how does their style of "government" effect how the "society" operates? It is as close to anarchy as one can get, the stated rules are only 3 and effectively don't censor what anyone says. Is this good or is this bad? Why?

 

[Mensa]

4. Do not carry on as if one is the best thing to happen to the 'Net.

What kind of scale is our "society:" global, local, large, small...?

First, whatever became of Black Panther anyway?

Second, it's a global village.

 

[Guest]

Oh, a topic I can sink my teeth into; thanks to all those human behavior classes in college.
Lit. is a community that reflects society.
There is history of the complete phases of group interactions.
1. Pseudo community- Folks are cordial in the initial phase. There is avoidance of conflict. Conversation consists of external issues.
2. Chaos- Strong personalities come out. Ones take over or withdrawal from the chaos.
3. Emptiness- Silence emerges. Folks take breaks. There is a lull between issues. Baggage emerges, as well.
4. Community- Bonding occurs. Small groups break off within commonalities. People focus on internal conversations.

Within these group interactions, the Lit. community is formed. There is socialization, social control( imposition of norms), social participation, and mutual support.


Whew. I love this stuff.

 

[Dillinger]

KM - I really think you've gotten to the core of a number of issues that have been quite prevalent lately. And its is a pleasure to see it on a thread that isn't accusing anyone, or any group, of one thing or another. A real pleasure. Thank you for that.

We have bandied the word "clique" around a whole hell of a lot lately. It seems that anyone who agrees with anyone else is automatically branded as being in a clique with that person and others. Hell, by that type of logic I am now in a clique with you for agreeing with your description of this place as a microcosm of humanity. Furthermore we are all apparently in cliques with anyone who is our friend.

The Webster definition of clique is as follows:

: a narrow exclusive circle or group of persons; especially : one held together by common interests, views, or purpose

We use the word clique quite negatively, but it isn't necessarily so. This definition partly fits, except the exclusive part. There is nothing very exclusive about voicing one's opinions in a public forum.

We all tend to befriend those who we do have common interests with. Is that bad? Why would I want to hang out regularly with people I have nothing in common with? But, by the same token, I also enjoy interacting with all sorts of people - including those I seem to have little in common with, especially if I can learn something new from them or engage in a stimulating discussion, even if we disagree.

We do nothing here that we don't also do in real life other then throw a lot more accusations around.

 

[lilminx]

By the definition Dilly posted bove, then *ALL* of Lit is one huge clique...

 

[P. B. Walker]

In terms of being cliquish... I've been chatting on the internet for mmm... well since the internet really kicked off. I've dabbled in just about every forum possible whether it be IRC, usenet, icuii (or it's offshoots), numerous bulletin boards (whether web based or not)... and I will say this... ALL of them had a couple of cliques in them. It's human nature I think. There will always be sets of people that just natures click together and spend most of their time chatting together. There's always those few people that are anti-social. There's always a trouble-maker. There's always a class clown. There's always that one person that gets along with everyone. And let's not forget the one or two "weirdos" that nobody understands.

Do I think these microcosms we see on the internet (chat programs, BBs, etc) reflect real life... actually I do. I like to compare them to high school. If you really think about it, you'll see the commonalities.

Just my two cents...

- PBW

 

[Laurel]

Lit is a SubMarina #13 turkey sub, with avocado and extra cheddar.

 

[weathered2]

... And let's not forget the one or two "weirdos" that nobody understands...... - PBW

And just who are you calling "wierdo", fella?!

(Joking... I think.)

 

[christophe]

Lit is a SubMarina #13 turkey sub, with avocado and extra cheddar.

What?...no fries with that?

 

[Cheyenne]

Hey, you forgot to use the word "sub-culture" in your description! Lots of people here really like that word, I hear.

Seriously, I think I'm comfortable in a few of those groups you mentioned. It depends on my mood at the time.

 

[tigerjen]

my take

Literotica is made up of people from all walks of life, from
different diverse backgrounds, full of diff. styles and tastes.
I think its reflective of our society as a whole, because that
is who we are.

In terms of cliques.....sure, there are some on here that
are "buddy-buddy" with each other in terms of being a
clique, but as for myself, I'm not in any clique on here....I do
enjoy talking w/ different people that I encounter here,
whether they are local or overseas........



tigerjen

 

[freescorfr]

The very obvious way in which Lit is not a reflection of society is that the expression of our sexuality, and hence our inner-beings - is on the surface.
That people here agree on freedom of sexual expression is a defining charateristic of the population of Lit. This is not the case in developed societies generally and is creative of a new form of community fundamentally. Smaller communities, local and sectarian, have done this often enough. The scale of Lit., however, and its range, make it part of the newly emerging global community in which the defining norms of the (usually) institutional powers are made redundant by the capacity we now have to interact one-one on an astronomical number of different transactions, which make past priesthoods obsolete.

So in that respect Lit is not a reflection of society, but as raindancer says, it does behave like one. However, I don't think the text-books can predict what will happen when we are all "connected". Any prophets around? Community itself will evolve and may well not resemble communities of the past.

 

[SweetBrat73]

KM - I really think you've gotten to the core of a number of issues that have been quite prevalent lately. And its is a pleasure to see it on a thread that isn't accusing anyone, or any group, of one thing or another. A real pleasure. Thank you for that.

We have bandied the word "clique" around a whole hell of a lot lately. It seems that anyone who agrees with anyone else is automatically branded as being in a clique with that person and others. Hell, by that type of logic I am now in a clique with you for agreeing with your description of this place as a microcosm of humanity. Furthermore we are all apparently in cliques with anyone who is our friend.

The Webster definition of clique is as follows:

: a narrow exclusive circle or group of persons; especially : one held together by common interests, views, or purpose

We use the word clique quite negatively, but it isn't necessarily so. This definition partly fits, except the exclusive part. There is nothing very exclusive about voicing one's opinions in a public forum.

We all tend to befriend those who we do have common interests with. Is that bad? Why would I want to hang out regularly with people I have nothing in common with? But, by the same token, I also enjoy interacting with all sorts of people - including those I seem to have little in common with, especially if I can learn something new from them or engage in a stimulating discussion, even if we disagree.

We do nothing here that we don't also do in real life other then throw a lot more accusations around.

Well here it is Dill

I love you! You are so wonderful!!! I couldn't have said it better myself

Well I think that's how I put it last night



Brat

 

[Camille]

Where is the remote?

Lit is a reflection exaggerated, only a distorted image of itself. Each citizen creates their own reality and brings it with them. It is an Internet community and not a real one, a part of pop culture. Is it real? Yes! It certainly exist, occupies space and time.

Therefore Lit is part of human reality, but does it matter? It only reflects the ramblings of a highly transient group of people. Yet reduces us to basic instinctual obsessions. The general board is a neighborhood bar with all the characters that implies. I would hypothesize that Lit is the absence of true community; the majority of interaction here is of no relevance. What passes for intelligent conversation, is actually surface pondering. We devote neither the time nor maintain the effort to delve into anything other than trivial observations and flirting. While friendships do exist and are of real value the sense of community is false. The online names, faces and personalities are interchangeable. Lit is interactive television without a PBS station, or cable new service.

Now the different forums of lit exist along the continuum of true community with BDSM in my opinion coming the closest. We’ve got all the fluff and puff anyone could hope for. Pass the popcorn I love it, in the absence of real human interaction it’s the next best thing.

Cam

 

[Ravenloft]

Lit is a SubMarina #13 turkey sub, with avocado and extra cheddar.

Hey! Where's the BEEF?!

 

[Sabineteas]

Ahh, hmmm

Lit is a society unto itself. It is like society but I believe that it is more open with opinions more freely shared.

I can't imagine some of the things I have seen here, being said in RL. I don't think that is bad, it is just different from RL.

Anonymity and the safety of the computer screeen rather than face to face contact allow that to happen.

Are there cliques here? I think so, but it really isn't any different than RL.

Lit is a reflection of RL, with things added. Openess, firmly held opinions, discussion, arguing, anger, apologies, hurts, love and friendship.

Sometimes I feel as though I am on the outside looking in here, but I can read and learn without a bit of pain. I enjoy reading people's posts, except for the ones we all know and love. I wish I was more popular, but I wasn't in school, and I can live with it here.

All I really want is for people to respect each other and be kind to each other.

If that happens everything else will work out

 

[freescorfr]

Re: Where is the remote?

The general board is a neighborhood bar
Cam

Hardly neighbourhood!

I would hypothesize that Lit is the absence of true community; the majority of interaction here is of no relevance

Like in most communities? But there is a lot of interaction that has RL outcomes. People do meet. I've not written a thing for 10 years and at least Lit has got me to use the keyboard. "If you don't use it you lose it." Now I'm using it, just to get the fingers moving.

the sense of community is false.

More like different. This site http://www.calresco.org/index.htm is full of links to ways in which technology is propelling our evolutionary development forward in such a way that we will be able to watch ourselves evolving in the same way as we see ourselves ageing.

You wait till your kids overtake you like a Capri in the outside lane.

Lit is a part of that, a cell, and it is a powerful cell because it is based on a most powerful attractor - sex.

 

[Guest]

Lit is a microcosm of humanity. But what part?

Good question here. I think, this being basically a porn site, this part of humanity is either more evolved regarding our sexual attitudes, or perhaps a bit perverted because of societies ignorant attitudes regarding same, and have perhaps discovered an outlet for it. But other than that, as you stated next, Lit's society come's from every aspect of life. (Please take the word perverted lightly, because I feel many types of sexual behavior is normal and natural, but that society has pegged it as perverted. But I won't deny there is perversion out there, I'm just not willing to define it here.)

A lot of people have accused this board of being "cliquish" as if it's a bad thing. Is it?

In a word, no. Every place you go, every situation you find yourself in, when there are other people involved, there will always and forever be cliques. Sometimes cliques are cruel to another clique. That's when a clique gets a bad name. Remember the HS cheerleaders, that wouldn't have a thing to say to you, until they needed your help with their homework? Hell, I had a neighbor that was a jock, wouldn't talk to me at school, but one day after school, he pushed me into a shack and wanted to fuck me...asshole that he was. Those are the cliques we remember from our younger days. But really, they are everywhere, and for the most part, they are just enjoying being with people with a common interest. Basically a repeat of what you said next.

It's human nature to pull into groups of like mindedness.

Great observation

Is the General Board a reflection of human reality or is it a part of human reality?

Another good question. My opinion is yes to both. Yes it's a reflection, there are probably thousands of people out there that wouldn't come to this board out of fear and shame, though deep inside they don't agree with the way society presents it's attitudes regarding sexual behavior. There are probably thousands of people that come to these boards, and never register for the same reason.

And yes, this is a part of human reality. Everyone here is a real person, with real feelings, a real life, a real income, real families, real problems, and real solutions. And the people that come here, develop real friends here, and have real emotions about what goes on here. Many of the recent events I followed, though I had no personal involvement in, but I could feel the tensions between certain members.

Do we showcase society or did we create a society?

Again, IMHO yes to both...

What kind of scale is our "society:" global, local, large, small...?

Well there are 54,182 members at the time I wrote this, not counting the number that visit and never register. Of course it's hard to tell what percentage of them are currently active, but that's quite a number, if you ask me.

Do cliques fit into this "society" or do they destroy it?

Cliques fit into any society, whether the society wants them to or not. And I've never seen a clique totally destroy themselves yet, though there are examples in history when they have tried.

Lit has a defacto government, Laurel and Manu, how does their style of "government" effect how the "society" operates? It is as close to anarchy as one can get, the stated rules are only 3 and effectively don't censor what anyone says.

Taking this apart and analyzing it, de facto government is as follows: exercising power as if legally constituted

An anarchy is: 1 a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2 a : absence or denial of any authority or established order b : absence of order :

First of all, you are correct using these terms. How does this effect how the "society" operates? It gives complete freedom for all members as long as they stay within the solid boundries of the "law". I recall my HS government teacher stating, that countries with solid boundries provided more freedom for their citizens, than a country (such as USA) with gray boundries. He was pretty adamant about his feelings, and felt the US should restrict our citizens more tightly, and ultimately give us more freedom. (Not necessarily my opinion, just quoting another's)

Is this good or is this bad? Why?

In this type of forum, I think it is a good thing. This BB has gotten extremely large, something that perhaps Laurel and Manu never expected it to be, and had they not set up such black and white "laws", or to many "laws" it would have been impossible for them to maintain this board. We might not have had this board today.

Ok, nuff of my 2 cents.

Moon

 

[freescorfr]

This BB has gotten extremely large, something that perhaps Laurel and Manu never expected it to be

Often the case with significant and successful enterprises.

I've come across this from Ivan Illich in an essay, probably from the late 60s called "Sexual Power and Political Potency"

Populations are mindless: they can be managed but not motivated. Only persons can make up their minds; and the more they make up their minds the less they can be controlled.

What is happening on Lit and in Chat and discussions all over the net is an entirely new phenomenon. Individuals will be making up their own minds more and more. This will transform politics which has depended on manipulation of people's thinking.

 

[Laurel]

Lit is a soup that eats like a meal.

 

[Guest]

Re: Where is the remote?

I have to say I disagree with a few of your statements.

Lit is a reflection exaggerated, only a distorted image of itself. Each citizen creates their own reality and brings it with them.

IMO Each person creates their own reality and walks around in real life with it, it's no different here. Perhaps a larger percentage acts out differently here than in RL, but eventually if an asshole is an asshole in RL, s/he will eventually show her/his true colors here.

It is an Internet community and not a real one, a part of pop culture. Is it real? Yes! It certainly exist, occupies space and time.

Here you contradict yourself. An internet community is not a real one, but it is real?

I believe they are real. I had an internet friend in London commit suicide, and I felt her pain. Changed my whole life. Quit my job, and moved to CA, because I wanted to experience life and not pain, as she had.

Therefore Lit is part of human reality, but does it matter? It only reflects the ramblings of a highly transient group of people. Yet reduces us to basic instinctual obsessions. The general board is a neighborhood bar with all the characters that implies. I would hypothesize that Lit is the absence of true community; the majority of interaction here is of no relevance. What passes for intelligent conversation, is actually surface pondering. We devote neither the time nor maintain the effort to delve into anything other than trivial observations and flirting. While friendships do exist and are of real value the sense of community is false. The online names, faces and personalities are interchangeable. Lit is interactive television without a PBS station, or cable new service.

Perhaps it doesn't matter to you, and is of no relevance. Personally, I come here for intertainment, as you suggest this is, an interactive TV of sorts. But IMO, the above remarks from you, are Your Opinions. You have the right to them, as do I and everyone else on this board. But if you feel this is unintelligent conversation, and actually surface pondering, why did you bother to write anything? Not trying to critisize, just curious.

Now the different forums of lit exist along the continuum of true community with BDSM in my opinion coming the closest. We’ve got all the fluff and puff anyone could hope for. Pass the popcorn I love it, in the absence of real human interaction it’s the next best thing.

Cam

I don't quite follow your meaning of the different forums existing along the continuum of true community, and that BDSM comes the closest. What is your definition of "true community?" Perhaps if I knew that, I'd comprehend it.

Definition of community
1 : a unified body of individuals: as a : STATE, COMMONWEALTH b : the people with common interests living in a particular area; broadly : the area itself <the problems of a large community> c : an interacting population of various kinds of individuals (as species) in a common location d : a group of people with a common characteristic or interest living together within a larger society <a community of retired persons> e : a group linked by a common policy f : a body of persons or nations having a common history or common social, economic, and political interests <the international community> g : a body of persons of common and especially professional interests scattered through a larger society <the academic community>

According to the above, we are a body of persons of common interests scattered through a larger society, therefore a community.

Here's the dictionaries meaning of the word true
2 a (1) : being in accordance with the actual state of affairs <true description> (2) : conformable to an essential reality (3) : fully realized or fulfilled <dreams come true> b : IDEAL, ESSENTIAL being that which is the case rather than what is manifest or assumed <the true dimension of the problem>d:CONSISTENT<true to character>
3 a : properly so called <true love> <the true faith>

The way I read this as applied here, whether a community is true or not is a matter of opinion. Is an academic community a true community? Some could argue that it is not, as it has no affect on them personally. The dictionary obviously acknowledges it as such. So when you refer to a "true community" just what is that to you?

Oh, KM.....you got me started on this one....thanks for starting this thread....I'll try to be quiet now...

Moon

 

[freescorfr]

Lit is a soup that eats like a meal.

I've had a good meal. Time to read a few stories for inspiration. It is, after all, why I came here in the first place. Musn't get too distracted by a few provokative threads.

 

[Guest]

Often the case with significant and successful enterprises.

I've come across this from Ivan Illich in an essay, probably from the late 60s called "Sexual Power and Political Potency"

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Populations are mindless: they can be managed but not motivated. Only persons can make up their minds; and the more they make up their minds the less they can be controlled.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is happening on Lit and in Chat and discussions all over the net is an entirely new phenomenon. Individuals will be making up their own minds more and more. This will transform politics which has depended on manipulation of people's thinking.

Interesting quote. I certainly am enjoying this phenomenon. So many people are sheep, and continue on their merry way. Education is at our fingertips, and helps enlighten persons willing to find it.

I visited that link, by the way...some pretty heavy articles there. A lot to sift through to find what I would want to read, so I'll have to find time to do that soon.

Moon

 

[Guest]

I've had a good meal. Time to read a few stories for inspiration. It is, after all, why I came here in the first place. Musn't get too distracted by a few provokative threads.

Is this a provocative thread?



Moon

 

[impulse]

Re: Where is the remote?

What passes for intelligent conversation, is actually surface pondering. We devote neither the time nor maintain the effort to delve into anything other than trivial observations and flirting.

Cam

This is, no doubt, usually the case. I submit, however, this very post of yours stands in contradiction to that statement. Conversations in which we engage with our closest friends drift in and out of triviality. Cyberspace is an alternate world for the mind. Within its boundaries we lie, we confess, and we seek human contact. The depth of its content varies from user to user and from observer to observer.
The very nature of this website draws a certain mindset, thus is decidedly different from general society in its consensus. It is not, however, a reflection of anything that does not exist in the minds of many. How closely Lit society parallels general society we can not quantitativly determine. I do suspect that it represents a larger portion of the people than many realize.
By the way Camille, you are smart and cute. Just had to throw that in there.