Michael Moore: changing the course of civilisation?

Purple Haze

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The beginning of history

Fahrenheit 9/11 has touched millions of viewers across the world. But could it actually change the course of civilisation?

John Berger
Tuesday August 24, 2004
The Guardian

Fahrenheit 9/11 is astounding. Not so much as a film - although it is cunning and moving - but as an event. Most commentators try to dismiss the event and disparage the film. We will see why later.

The artists on the Cannes film festival jury apparently voted unanimously to award Michael Moore's film the Palme d'Or. Since then it has touched many millions across the world. In the US, its box-office takings for the first six weeks amounted to more than $100m, which is, astoundingly, about half of what Harry Potter made during a comparable period. Only the so-called opinion-makers in the media appear to have been put out by it.

The film, considered as a political act, may be a historical landmark. Yet to have a sense of this, a certain perspective for the future is required. Living only close-up to the latest news, as most opinion-makers do, reduces one's perspectives. The film is trying to make a small contribution towards the changing of world history. It is a work inspired by hope.

What makes it an event is the fact that it is an effective and independent intervention into immediate world politics. Today it is rare for an artist to succeed in making such an intervention, and in interrupting the prepared, prevaricating statements of politicians. Its immediate aim is to make it less likely that President Bush will be re-elected next November.

To denigrate this as propaganda is either naive or perverse, forgetting (deliberately?) what the last century taught us. Propaganda requires a permanent network of communication so that it can systematically stifle reflection with emotive or utopian slogans. Its pace is usually fast. Propaganda invariably serves the long-term interests of some elite.

This single maverick movie is often reflectively slow and is not afraid of silence. It appeals to people to think for themselves and make connections. And it identifies with, and pleads for, those who are normally unlistened to. Making a strong case is not the same thing as saturating with propaganda. Fox TV does the latter; Michael Moore the former.

Ever since the Greek tragedies, artists have, from time to time, asked themselves how they might influence ongoing political events. It's a tricky question because two very different types of power are involved. Many theories of aesthetics and ethics revolve round this question. For those living under political tyrannies, art has frequently been a form of hidden resistance, and tyrants habitually look for ways to control art. All this, however, is in general terms and over a large terrain. Fahrenheit 9/11 is something different. It has succeeded in intervening in a political programme on the programme's own ground.

For this to happen a convergence of factors were needed. The Cannes award and the misjudged attempt to prevent the film being distributed played a significant part in creating the event.

To point this out in no way implies that the film as such doesn't deserve the attention it is receiving. It's simply to remind ourselves that within the realm of the mass media, a breakthrough (a smashing down of the daily wall of lies and half-truths) is bound to be rare. And it is this rarity which has made the film exemplary. It is setting an example to millions - as if they'd been waiting for it.

The film proposes that the White House and Pentagon were taken over in the first year of the millennium by a gang of thugs so that US power should henceforth serve the global interests of the corporations: a stark scenario which is closer to the truth than most nuanced editorials. Yet more important than the scenario is the way the movie speaks out. It demonstrates that - despite all the manipulative power of communications experts, lying presidential speeches and vapid press conferences - a single independent voice, pointing out certain home truths which countless Americans are already discovering for themselves, can break through the conspiracy of silence, the atmosphere of fear and the solitude of feeling politically impotent.

It's a movie that speaks of obstinate faraway desires in a period of disillusion. A movie that tells jokes while the band plays the apocalypse. A movie in which millions of Americans recognise themselves and the precise ways in which they are being cheated. A movie about surprises, mostly bad but some good, being discussed together. Fahrenheit 9/11 reminds the spectator that when courage is shared one can fight against the odds.

In more than a thousand cinemas across the country, Michael Moore becomes with this film a people's tribune. And what do we see? Bush is visibly a political cretin, as ignorant of the world as he is indifferent to it; while the tribune, informed by popular experience, acquires political credibility, not as a politician himself, but as the voice of the anger of a multitude and its will to resist.

There is something else which is astounding. The aim of Fahrenheit 9/11 is to stop Bush fixing the next election as he fixed the last. Its focus is on the totally unjustified war in Iraq. Yet its conclusion is larger than either of these issues. It declares that a political economy which creates colossally increasing wealth surrounded by disastrously increasing poverty, needs - in order to survive - a continual war with some invented foreign enemy to maintain its own internal order and security. It requires ceaseless war.

Thus, 15 years after the fall of communism, a decade after the declared end of history, one of the main theses of Marx's interpretation of history again becomes a debating point and a possible explanation of the catastrophes being lived.

It is always the poor who make the most sacrifices, Fahrenheit 9/11 announces quietly during its last minutes. For how much longer?

There is no future for any civilisation anywhere in the world today which ignores this question. And this is why the film was made and became what it became. It's a film that deeply wants America to survive.

· John Berger is a novelist and critic

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1289430,00.html
 
It is a great movie . . . the American Dream of Hollywood has faded into the American Nightmare of Shrub and the appointed regime.

Liberty is lost and the loonies are running the country.

THe DVD is released in America about 5 October 2004. Every American should go out, buy a copy, watch it . . . and then decide if thye can afford NOT to vote in November 2004.

Another four years of Shrubbie and the corporations would put America back into the Dark Ages by design . . . :)
 
to sum up everything you said, it's a well made piece of crap!



Purple Haze said:
The beginning of history

Fahrenheit 9/11 has touched millions of viewers across the world. But could it actually change the course of civilisation?

John Berger
Tuesday August 24, 2004
The Guardian

Fahrenheit 9/11 is astounding. Not so much as a film - although it is cunning and moving - but as an event. Most commentators try to dismiss the event and disparage the film. We will see why later.

The artists on the Cannes film festival jury apparently voted unanimously to award Michael Moore's film the Palme d'Or. Since then it has touched many millions across the world. In the US, its box-office takings for the first six weeks amounted to more than $100m, which is, astoundingly, about half of what Harry Potter made during a comparable period. Only the so-called opinion-makers in the media appear to have been put out by it.

The film, considered as a political act, may be a historical landmark. Yet to have a sense of this, a certain perspective for the future is required. Living only close-up to the latest news, as most opinion-makers do, reduces one's perspectives. The film is trying to make a small contribution towards the changing of world history. It is a work inspired by hope.

What makes it an event is the fact that it is an effective and independent intervention into immediate world politics. Today it is rare for an artist to succeed in making such an intervention, and in interrupting the prepared, prevaricating statements of politicians. Its immediate aim is to make it less likely that President Bush will be re-elected next November.

To denigrate this as propaganda is either naive or perverse, forgetting (deliberately?) what the last century taught us. Propaganda requires a permanent network of communication so that it can systematically stifle reflection with emotive or utopian slogans. Its pace is usually fast. Propaganda invariably serves the long-term interests of some elite.

This single maverick movie is often reflectively slow and is not afraid of silence. It appeals to people to think for themselves and make connections. And it identifies with, and pleads for, those who are normally unlistened to. Making a strong case is not the same thing as saturating with propaganda. Fox TV does the latter; Michael Moore the former.

Ever since the Greek tragedies, artists have, from time to time, asked themselves how they might influence ongoing political events. It's a tricky question because two very different types of power are involved. Many theories of aesthetics and ethics revolve round this question. For those living under political tyrannies, art has frequently been a form of hidden resistance, and tyrants habitually look for ways to control art. All this, however, is in general terms and over a large terrain. Fahrenheit 9/11 is something different. It has succeeded in intervening in a political programme on the programme's own ground.

For this to happen a convergence of factors were needed. The Cannes award and the misjudged attempt to prevent the film being distributed played a significant part in creating the event.

To point this out in no way implies that the film as such doesn't deserve the attention it is receiving. It's simply to remind ourselves that within the realm of the mass media, a breakthrough (a smashing down of the daily wall of lies and half-truths) is bound to be rare. And it is this rarity which has made the film exemplary. It is setting an example to millions - as if they'd been waiting for it.

The film proposes that the White House and Pentagon were taken over in the first year of the millennium by a gang of thugs so that US power should henceforth serve the global interests of the corporations: a stark scenario which is closer to the truth than most nuanced editorials. Yet more important than the scenario is the way the movie speaks out. It demonstrates that - despite all the manipulative power of communications experts, lying presidential speeches and vapid press conferences - a single independent voice, pointing out certain home truths which countless Americans are already discovering for themselves, can break through the conspiracy of silence, the atmosphere of fear and the solitude of feeling politically impotent.

It's a movie that speaks of obstinate faraway desires in a period of disillusion. A movie that tells jokes while the band plays the apocalypse. A movie in which millions of Americans recognise themselves and the precise ways in which they are being cheated. A movie about surprises, mostly bad but some good, being discussed together. Fahrenheit 9/11 reminds the spectator that when courage is shared one can fight against the odds.

In more than a thousand cinemas across the country, Michael Moore becomes with this film a people's tribune. And what do we see? Bush is visibly a political cretin, as ignorant of the world as he is indifferent to it; while the tribune, informed by popular experience, acquires political credibility, not as a politician himself, but as the voice of the anger of a multitude and its will to resist.

There is something else which is astounding. The aim of Fahrenheit 9/11 is to stop Bush fixing the next election as he fixed the last. Its focus is on the totally unjustified war in Iraq. Yet its conclusion is larger than either of these issues. It declares that a political economy which creates colossally increasing wealth surrounded by disastrously increasing poverty, needs - in order to survive - a continual war with some invented foreign enemy to maintain its own internal order and security. It requires ceaseless war.

Thus, 15 years after the fall of communism, a decade after the declared end of history, one of the main theses of Marx's interpretation of history again becomes a debating point and a possible explanation of the catastrophes being lived.

It is always the poor who make the most sacrifices, Fahrenheit 9/11 announces quietly during its last minutes. For how much longer?

There is no future for any civilisation anywhere in the world today which ignores this question. And this is why the film was made and became what it became. It's a film that deeply wants America to survive.

· John Berger is a novelist and critic

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1289430,00.html
 
Re: Re: Michael Moore: changing the course of civilisation?

rjohns86us said:
to sum up everything you said, it's a well made piece of crap!

Well, I didn't say it, but thanks anyway.

You didn't like the movie?
 
Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore: changing the course of civilisation?

Purple Haze said:
You didn't like the movie?
Sean Hannity told him not to.

Which isn't to imply that he actually saw it.
 
Re: Re: Michael Moore: changing the course of civilisation?

rjohns86us said:
to sum up everything you said, it's a well made piece of crap!

Have you seen it?

Come on - tell us ?
 
Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore: changing the course of civilisation?

I did see it. the movie was well made...and about as factual as a Disney cartoon



tendril said:
Have you seen it?

Come on - tell us ?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore: changing the course of civilisation?

rjohns86us said:
I did see it. the movie was well made...and about as factual as a Disney cartoon

You did? What was the very last scene in the movie then?
 
The only thing that Michael Moore will change the course of is a fucking bus if he sat too far to the left or right.
 
On one side we have that excellently written article. On the other a fat joke.

Yup. You win P.B.! I'm for you!
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore: changing the course of civilisation?

rjohns86us said:
I did see it. the movie was well made...and about as factual as a Disney cartoon

Maybe we got a different copy here in NZ.

I found it thought provoking.

I guess you support GWB huh?
 
I don't believe that the factual value of the film is the issue raised in this article. Although the author's position is clear, his point is that the film is an independent expression of opinion, right or wrong, which may well have a significant effect on the current political situation. One man, rich though he is, has managed to express an opinion contrary to that of the established authority sources - both of them. He is not party political (ref: Democrat-bashing), but is independent.

To summarise, one man is making a difference. It's a bloody huge leap forward.
 
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

TWO MICHAEL MOORE BOOKS TO BE PUBLISHED

BY SIMON & SCHUSTER IN FALL 2004

Collection of G.I. Letters and

9/11 Reader Timed to Release of Fahrenheit 9/11 DVD

New York, NY, August 19, 2004 – Michael Moore, the acclaimed filmmaker and #1 best-selling author whose latest movie, Fahrenheit 9/11, is the highest-grossing documentary of all time, has reached an agreement with Simon & Schuster to publish a collection of letters written to Mr. Moore by American G.I.s in Iraq. Titled WILL THEY EVER TRUST US AGAIN? Soldiers, Veterans and their Families Write to Michael Moore, the 256-page hardcover book will be priced at $21.00 and will be released in November 2004.

Michael Moore said about the collection: _“I'm proud to give voice to the troops who have written to me.”

The book, which was acquired by Simon & Schuster Executive Vice President and Publisher David Rosenthal from Mort Janklow of Janklow & Nesbit, will contain introductory material from Mr. Moore as well as additional commentary throughout. The letters were received by Mr. Moore over the last year, many of them sent to his website.

Also later this year, in conjunction with the release of the DVD of Fahrenheit 9/11, Simon & Schuster will publish a volume containing the full movie transcript as well as supplementary material not included in the final cut of the movie._ Entitled THE OFFICIAL FARENHEIT 9/11 READER, the book will be published as a trade paperback original and will be priced at $16.00.

Michael Moore described this book as, “Everything you want to know about Fahrenheit 9/11.”
Simon & Schuster, part of the entertainment operation of Viacom Inc., is a global leader in the field of general interest publishing, dedicated to providing the best in fiction and nonfiction for consumers of all ages, across all printed, electronic, and multimedia formats. Its divisions include the Simon & Schuster Adult Publishing Group, Simon & Schuster Children's Publishing, Simon & Schuster New Media, Simon & Schuster Online, and international companies in Australia, Canada, and the United Kingdom. For more information, visit their website.
 
The GOP doesn't reflect America

Michael Moore, Filmmaker

NEW YORK — Welcome, Republicans. You're proud Americans who love your country. In your own way, you want to make this country a better place. Whatever our differences, you should be commended for that.

But what's all this talk about New York being enemy territory? Nothing could be further from the truth. We New Yorkers love Republicans. We have a Republican mayor and governor, a death penalty and two nuclear plants within 30 miles of the city.

New York is home to Fox News Channel. The top right-wing talk shows emanate from here — Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly among them. The Wall Street Journal is based here, which means your favorite street is here. Not to mention more Fortune 500 executives than anywhere else.

You may think you're surrounded by a bunch of latte-drinking effete liberals, but the truth is, you're right where you belong, smack in the seat of corporate America and conservative media.

Let me also say I admire your resolve. You're true believers. Even though only a third of the country defines itself as "Republican," you control the White House, Congress, Supreme Court and most state governments.

You're in charge because you never back down. Your people are up before dawn figuring out which minority group shouldn't be allowed to marry today.

Our side is full of wimps who'd rather compromise than fight. Not you guys.

Hanging out around the convention, I've encountered a number of the Republican faithful who aren't delegates. They warm up to me when they don't find horns or a tail. Talking to them, I discover they're like many people who call themselves Republicans but aren't really Republicans. At least not in the radical-right way that George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, John Ashcroft and Co. have defined Republicans.

I asked one man who told me he was a "proud Republican," "Do you think we need strong laws to protect our air and water?"

"Well, sure," he said. "Who doesn't?"

I asked whether women should have equal rights, including the same pay as men.

"Absolutely," he replied.

"Would you discriminate against someone because he or she is gay?"

"Um, no." The pause — I get that a lot when I ask this question — is usually because the average good-hearted person instantly thinks about a gay family member or friend.

I've often found that if I go down the list of "liberal" issues with people who say they're Republican, they are quite liberal and not in sync with the Republicans who run the country. Most don't want America to be the world's police officer and prefer peace to war. They applaud civil rights, believe all Americans should have health insurance and think assault weapons should be banned. Though they may personally oppose abortion, they usually don't think the government has the right to tell a women what to do with her body.

There's a name for these Republicans: RINOs or Republican In Name Only. They possess a liberal, open mind and don't believe in creating a worse life for anyone else.

So why do they use the same label as those who back a status quo of women earning 75 cents to every dollar a man earns, 45 million people without health coverage and a president who has two more countries left on his axis-of-evil-regime-change list?

I asked my friend on the street. He said what I hear from all RINOs: "I don't want the government taking my hard-earned money and taxing me to death. That's what the Democrats do."

Money. That's what it comes down to for the RINOs. They do work hard and have been squeezed even harder to make ends meet. They blame Democrats for wanting to take their money. Never mind that it's Republican tax cuts for the rich and billions spent on the Iraq war that have created the largest deficits in history and will put all of us in hock for years to come.

The Republican Party's leadership knows America is not only filled with RINOs, but most Americans are much more liberal than the delegates gathered in New York.

The Republicans know it. That's why this week we're seeing gay-loving Rudy Giuliani, gun-hating Michael Bloomberg and abortion-rights advocate Arnold Schwarzenegger.

As tough of a pill as it is to swallow, Republicans know that the only way to hold onto power is to pass themselves off as, well, as most Americans. It's a good show.

So have a good time, Republicans. It could be your last happy party for awhile if all the RINOs and liberal majority figure it out on Nov. 2.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2004-08-30-moore-gopamerica_x.htm
 
Did you know, Purp, that while Mr. Moore was at the convention last night, working for USA Today, the Secret Service intervened to move people trying to interview him away, for "safety" reasons? It wasn't clear, listening as an NPR reporter live on the radio was escorted out of earshot of Mr. Moore, just who or what the threat was, let alone who was being protected.

Now the Secret Service is typically not a very partisan organization, though they obviously have a strong connection to whichever party the current president hails from. I can't fathom that a knot of people doing interviews was the sort of hazard they're tasked with containing except and unless it involves somebody they're protecting. It's sort of puzzling, really, and I wonder about the orders given these agents.
 
LukkyKnight said:
Did you know, Purp, that while Mr. Moore was at the convention last night, working for USA Today, the Secret Service intervened to move people trying to interview him away, for "safety" reasons? It wasn't clear, listening as an NPR reporter live on the radio was escorted out of earshot of Mr. Moore, just who or what the threat was, let alone who was being protected.

Now the Secret Service is typically not a very partisan organization, though they obviously have a strong connection to whichever party the current president hails from. I can't fathom that a knot of people doing interviews was the sort of hazard they're tasked with containing except and unless it involves somebody they're protecting. It's sort of puzzling, really, and I wonder about the orders given these agents.

It's kind of strange how scared some people are of Michael Moore, you'd think he was a terrorist or something. On the other hand, I wish I had just half of MM's fearlessness. Here he is, hanging with people who'd like to hang him, and he doesn't exactly blend into a crowd. Can you imagine how many death threats he probably deletes on a daily basis?

He has ten ton testicles, yes indeed...
 
One article I found had an account of Moore and Jesse Jackson leading a protest march to the Garden yesterday. It was uneventful for the most part but there were some heated exchanges. The SS was 'escorting' the march to some degree.

<clip>

Things heated up considerably when the protestors reached Madison Square Garden, which spans from 31st to 33rd Streets between 7th and 8th Avenues. Police had blocked off the entrance to the arena, and stood stone-faced, side by side plain-clothes cops and secret service agents.

"Li-ars! Li-ars!" a huge group of protestors taunted, as they pressed up against the steel barriers, only a few feet away from police. "One, Two, Three, Four! We Don't Want Your Fucking War!" chanted another group in Kerry/Edwards t-shirts.

<clip>

"You can't chant U.S.A 'cause you're traitors!" screamed one purple-faced man. "Get the fuck out of my city!" hurled back one protestor in a thick New York accent. From Madison Square Garden, the protest route took marchers east on 34th Street, over to Fifth Avenue and down to Union Square, where 14th Street. Park Ave. and Broadway collide.

<clip>



source



http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5030118.html
 
Last edited:
Michael Moore, Changing the course of civilization?

Oh no, another dark ages?

Anyone can edit anything to fit their agenda, MM is a past master of that.
 
LukkyKnight said:
Did you know, Purp, that while Mr. Moore was at the convention last night, working for USA Today, the Secret Service intervened to move people trying to interview him away, for "safety" reasons? It wasn't clear, listening as an NPR reporter live on the radio was escorted out of earshot of Mr. Moore, just who or what the threat was, let alone who was being protected.

Now the Secret Service is typically not a very partisan organization, though they obviously have a strong connection to whichever party the current president hails from. I can't fathom that a knot of people doing interviews was the sort of hazard they're tasked with containing except and unless it involves somebody they're protecting. It's sort of puzzling, really, and I wonder about the orders given these agents.



They were probably worried about terrorist hiding anthrax in a donut box.

and what does he need to be interviewed for?
Is he going to say something new or original??
Or basically repeat the same fuckin bullshit he's been saying for a few years now?
Frankly I'm fuckin sick of seeing his prepubescent bearded, leave it to beaver ,hat covered pie hole.
somewhere a McDonalds is going out of business....go save em Mike.
 
Tathagata said:
They were probably worried about terrorist hiding anthrax in a donut box.

and what does he need to be interviewed for?
Is he going to say something new or original??
Or basically repeat the same fuckin bullshit he's been saying for a few years now?
Frankly I'm fuckin sick of seeing his prepubescent bearded, leave it to beaver ,hat covered pie hole.
somewhere a McDonalds is going out of business....go save em Mike.
He wasn't interviewed by USA Today. He is writing for them as a contributor. He is interviewing others.

Why do you have an issue with his weight? Is it his ten-ton testicles which bother you?
 
phrodeau said:
He wasn't interviewed by USA Today. He is writing for them as a contributor. He is interviewing others.

Why do you have an issue with his weight? Is it his ten-ton testicles which bother you?


yeah thats it
 
DevilishTexan said:
Moore should be harpooned and made into lipstick.


DITTO............DITTO.............DITTO.........DITTO.........DITTO....

In fact I'm sick of Idaho(moved here from Vegas) I think I might be checkin the lone star state out next! hope "ya-all" think like that!

pheeeeeeeeeeeeew......*takes deep breath*.....well maybe back to southern nevada?

hahahha....still like your style bro


Enigma:cool:
 
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