Men’s Oppressive Beliefs Predict Their Breast Size Preferences in Women

[MatthewVett]

So what do you think? http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-013-0081-5

Unfortunately, the article itself is probably hard to read, unless you have access to the journal. Huffington Post has a write-up here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...dy_n_2792287.html?utm_hp_ref=canada&ir=Canada

I also wrote up my summaries here: http://liquidmatthew.wordpress.com/...edict-their-breast-size-preferences-in-women/

Think there's any merit to it?

 

[3113]

Seems more than a little bit iffy to me. I mean, I'd like to know what culture they took said men from. I'd also like to know what women would say about women with big breasts. Perhaps this "sexism" is simply a universal stereotype. A busty woman seems softer and more motherly. And men who like softer women prefer busy women because of that.

 

[Handley_Page]

So what do you think? http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-013-0081-5

Unfortunately, the article itself is probably hard to read, unless you have access to the journal. Huffington Post has a write-up here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...dy_n_2792287.html?utm_hp_ref=canada&ir=Canada

I also wrote up my summaries here: http://liquidmatthew.wordpress.com/...edict-their-breast-size-preferences-in-women/

Think there's any merit to it?

Oh, I do wish they stop using difficult words.

 

[Handley_Page]

Seems more than a little bit iffy to me. I mean, I'd like to know what culture they took said men from. I'd also like to know what women would say about women with big breasts. Perhaps this "sexism" is simply a universal stereotype. A busty woman seems softer and more motherly. And men who like softer women prefer busy women because of that.

Please forgive me, but surely a 'busty' woman (softer and more motherly) is likely to be bigger all round ? (well, in the real world, anyway).

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I prefer smaller breasts, B cups. But I'm not a tit man. I like thighs and a sweet ass.

 

[TxRad]

I prefer smaller breasts, B cups. But I'm not a tit man. I like thighs and a sweet ass.

It is interesting that most "ass" men do prefer smaller breasts. We're not talking big "ass" men, that's another story.

 

[3113]

Please forgive me, but surely a 'busty' woman (softer and more motherly) is likely to be bigger all round ? (well, in the real world, anyway).

Yes and no. There are apple-shaped women who are heavy on top but not necessarily below,and a woman who is breastfeeding may not be larger elsewhere.

 

[3113]

To elaborate....

To elaborate...Let's imagine that the culture (men, women, everyone) stereotypes busty women as soft and feminine. There's some realism in this in that a woman's breasts do get large when breast feeding and a mother and baby have long been seen as vulnerable and in need of protection. Likewise, in many cultures a lean woman is an underfed woman and so "tougher" as compared to a well-fed woman leading a softer lifestyle.

Now if a man is raised in this culture, and he is the sort who gets a sexual thrill when he feels like he's "manly" and protective of a woman, then he's naturally going to gravitate towards a busty lady. Because the culture says that's the soft one. Likewise, if he gets a sexual thrill from less "soft" women, he'll go for the less busty lady as the culture says they're tougher.

I mean, did they ask the men who went for the smaller-breasted women, who saw women as less weak, what they thought of busty women? What if they'd said, "I go for smaller breasts because large breasted women are weaker...." That would indicate they have the same sexist view of breast size as the "sexist" guys. If they only asked the men who went for smaller breasts what they thought of women generally, then they might come across as less sexist as they might only be talking about their "type" of woman, the independent type.

Do you see what I mean? And isn't the view that a small-breasted woman is tough and independent also sexist in its way?

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Seems more than a little bit iffy to me. I mean, I'd like to know what culture they took said men from. I'd also like to know what women would say about women with big breasts. Perhaps this "sexism" is simply a universal stereotype. A busty woman seems softer and more motherly. And men who like softer women prefer busy women because of that.

361 white men from London, England.

 

[Saxon_Hart]

Only 361 men, of one race, from one area cannot be a large nor diversified enough of a sample to make a generalization about men as a whole. I'd like to see them test 100,000 men of varied racial, economical, and geographical backgrounds. Hey, if you can't find 100,000 men willing to talk about tits you are doing something wrong.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Only 361 men, of one race, from one area cannot be a large nor diversified enough of a sample to make a generalization about men as a whole. I'd like to see them test 100,000 men of varied racial, economical, and geographical backgrounds. Hey, if you can't find 100,000 men willing to talk about tits you are doing something wrong.

I'd like to see them castrate 100,000 men of varied racial, economical, and geographical backgrounds.

I prolly won't get my wish either.

 

[mynameisben]

I'd like to see them castrate 100,000 men of varied racial, economical, and geographical backgrounds.

I prolly won't get my wish either.

What does that have to do with the price of meatballs in Italy?

 

[jdnunyer]

So what do you think? http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-013-0081-5

Unfortunately, the article itself is probably hard to read, unless you have access to the journal. Huffington Post has a write-up here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...dy_n_2792287.html?utm_hp_ref=canada&ir=Canada

I also wrote up my summaries here: http://liquidmatthew.wordpress.com/...edict-their-breast-size-preferences-in-women/

Think there's any merit to it?

I'd say it has some face validity. Of course, it's always important to remember that measures of central tendency are just that -- these results hardly imply that any man who likes big breasts must necessarily be full of benevolent sexism. But I find it plausible that men with more traditional notions of femininity would, on average, prefer bustier women.

 

[jdnunyer]

A busty woman seems softer and more motherly. And men who like softer women prefer busy women because of that.

That sounds right. I think that's actually consistent with the authors' argument, though...

 

[MatthewVett]

Seems more than a little bit iffy to me. I mean, I'd like to know what culture they took said men from.

White males from around London who self-identified as being of British White descent.

 

[MatthewVett]

I mean, did they ask the men who went for the smaller-breasted women, who saw women as less weak, what they thought of busty women? What if they'd said, "I go for smaller breasts because large breasted women are weaker...." That would indicate they have the same sexist view of breast size as the "sexist" guys. If they only asked the men who went for smaller breasts what they thought of women generally, then they might come across as less sexist as they might only be talking about their "type" of woman, the independent type.

Do you see what I mean? And isn't the view that a small-breasted woman is tough and independent also sexist in its way?

The methodology *was* described...

They were shown five different figures, identical except for breast size, and asked to choose which was most attractive to them. They then completed a number of surveys designed to test their hostility towards women, benevolent sexism, attitudes towards women, and objectification of women.

Why are you making arguments based on your assumption of their methodology, when a few minutes' reading would answer your questions?

 

[3113]

That sounds right. I think that's actually consistent with the authors' argument, though...

I'm not so sure. Human babies remain vulnerable for a very long time, and mothers need to take care of them and feed them. In a hostile environment (filled with predators), a mother is, therefore, equally vulnerable as she cannot leave her child to go out for food, nor can she really take it with her as, burdened with it, they might both end up as lunch. Yet if she doesn't get enough to eat, then that will also put them both in danger.

A male who is inclined to protect mother and child for a good long time, who brings them food so that mom can focus on caring for the baby, ensures the survival of the species.

Could the "motherly" woman (enlarged breasts) as "vulnerable" be a kind of evolutionary "sexism" (is it even sexist if that was a truism once upon a time?)? i.e. maybe men who viewed busty women as vulnerable and feminine and therefore took care of them passed that onto their children? Perhaps this isn't cultural but in the DNA and in it for a reason?

Just a thought....

 

[jdnunyer]

I'm not so sure. Human babies remain vulnerable for a very long time, and mothers need to take care of them and feed them. In a hostile environment (filled with predators), a mother is, therefore, equally vulnerable as she cannot leave her child to go out for food, nor can she really take it with her as, burdened with it, they might both end up as lunch. Yet if she doesn't get enough to eat, then that will also put them both in danger.

A male who is inclined to protect mother and child for a good long time, who brings them food so that mom can focus on caring for the baby, ensures the survival of the species.

Could the "motherly" woman (enlarged breasts) as "vulnerable" be a kind of evolutionary "sexism" (is it even sexist if that was a truism once upon a time?)? i.e. maybe men who viewed busty women as vulnerable and feminine and therefore took care of them passed that onto their children? Perhaps this isn't cultural but in the DNA and in it for a reason?

Just a thought....

I see what you're saying. I misunderstood your earlier comment.

But if the belief is universal, then there'd be no variation in the sub-population they studied. Their results indicate that men who score higher than other men on measures of benevolent sexism (and objectification and hostility, though the correlation was strongest with benevolent sexism) also tend to be more likely to respond positively to large breasts than are other men. That's easy to over-interpret, and but I think it tells us something.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Only 361 men, of one race, from one area cannot be a large nor diversified enough of a sample to make a generalization about men as a whole. I'd like to see them test 100,000 men of varied racial, economical, and geographical backgrounds. Hey, if you can't find 100,000 men willing to talk about tits you are doing something wrong.

I've never met the researchers, but I can tell you now what their answer would be: "We would LOVE to expand our sample size, if you're offering to cover the funding."

The Huffpo article already notes that ethnicity affects attitudes towards breast size. It's possible to design a study that takes that into account and looks at whether this "sexism/breast preference" effect is different among different groups... but the design & interpretation are more complex and you need a much larger sample size to do it.

By picking a relatively homogenous sample, they keep the costs down. It means their findings are only directly applicable to straight white British men... but if anybody wants to replicate this research on other/larger groups, now they have a better case for funding.

On interpreting the effect: some folk like for everything in life to have clearly-defined roles. Man is for fighting mammoths and getting the lids off jars, woman is for cooking the mammoth and churning out babies. I haven't seen a definition of "benevolent sexism" but I expect we're talking about something very similar there.

People like that get very uncomfortable when those roles become blurred. My girlfriend has short hair and works out, so she looks quite androgynous, and she occasionally runs into people who are so flustered by that ambiguity that they can't cope; they don't know how to pigeonhole her. It doesn't surprise me that guys who want women to "act like women" would also want them to "look like women".

 

[3113]

Why are you making arguments based on your assumption of their methodology, when a few minutes' reading would answer your questions?

Because the description of what they did doesn't cover the actual questions, etc. That leaves open room for issues that we don't know about because we're being given generalities rather than specifics.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

I'd like to see them castrate 100,000 men of varied racial, economical, and geographical backgrounds.

I prolly won't get my wish either.

Damn, if I'd popped in with some irrelevant nonsense like "I'd like to see them cut off 100,000 women's tits..." there'd be calls for me and my family to be shot.

Wait, no, that happened when I spoke out in opposition to men being drafted...

 

[TxRad]

Damn, if I'd popped in with some irrelevant nonsense like "I'd like to see them cut off 100,000 women's tits..." there'd be calls for me and my family to be shot.

Wait, no, that happened when I spoke out in opposition to men being drafted...

Since most everyone has Amy and you on ignore, what does it matter, other than stirring the pot.

 

[MatthewVett]

Because the description of what they did doesn't cover the actual questions, etc. That leaves open room for issues that we don't know about because we're being given generalities rather than specifics.

What did you read? Because your first question, about which culture, was answered by the paper's abstract in the third sentence. My write-up addressed what questions they asked, specifically.

The paper has room for discussion, but when the method is known, that discussion doesn't include what their method was, and then a critique of an imaginary method you invented. I think you'd be better served by reading the study, or at least the links provided if you don't have access, before continuing.

 

[TheOlderGuy]

"It seems cliche, but it just might be true. The more sexist a man is, the more likely he is to be into big boobs."

Well, I personally have no evidence that would contradict that.

 

[CandiCame]

I prefer smaller breasts, B cups. But I'm not a tit man. I like thighs and a sweet ass.

See... I've never really seen a pair of tits I didn't like- large small, different shapes... But I do tend to like thicker women overall- not fat but some chub with muscle under it- that's pretty sweet. I want a woman who can kick my ass. So the chicks I go for do tend to usually have pretty good sized boobs. But it's not that I like to boobs per-say, it's just that bigger gals tend to have bigger boobs along with the luscious thighs and the great ass.

Isn't there an evolutionary thing where humans developed boobs because we walked upright and the cleavage was supposed to look kinda like an ass? Most other primates only have boobs when they're breastfeeding, but human chicks have them all the time...