Media Control in America

[thebullet]

Did anyone watch Bill Moyers' final episode of Now on PBS the other day? It was an object lesson in American media guaranteed to scare the bejesus out of all non-Nazis in this country.

Moyers is the consumate journalist in an era when journalism no longer exists, particularly in broadcast media. I knew all that Moyers brought out already, and I was still shocked and stunned by the magnitude of it all, by the arrogance of the extreme right.

A few facts brought out by Moyers (and agreed to, nay bragged about by leading right-wing media specialists).

90% of all radio talk-show hosts (who are doing political stuff) are right wingers.

The vast majority of all radio and TV stations are controlled by media conglomarates with right-wing agendas.

A conservative talk show host in Denver who had a drive-time show was told by his station to stop talking about the war in Iraq. When he refused to stop, he was banished to an overnight slot, even though his ratings were very high. This host, even though he was a conservative, felt that it was important to talk about the war in Iraq. But the right wing media doesn't want to mention it.

One of the founders of right-wing media stated proudly that all journalism is 'opinion' and therefore there is no need for truth or facts to back up the statements that are made on TV or radio.

As an example, the campaign against Kerry about his service in Viet Nam was started by right wing extremists who knew nothing about Kerry's service and didn't care anyway. The 'fastboat veterans for truth' or whatever they were called, didn't serve with Kerry and simply made up most of what they wrote in their book. And yet starting (of course) with Fox News, these allegations were presented as if they were truth (even though Fox knew they were false). Then the other major networks picked the story up, even though they knew the charges were false.

American media does not belong to the people! It belongs to big conglomerates with right wing agendas. They no longer even care about ratings! These stories are not ratings driven! They are driven with the intent of brain-washing the American people into believing these incredible lies that permeate our society.

Even after the 9/11 commission report, even after the government and the military has admitted it to be false, something like 40% of the country believe that Sadaam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks because that's what Fox News and their band of Facists tells them.

This country is in trouble! If people like Amicus truly believed in freedom, they would be screaming from the rooftops demanding a free and honest press in this country.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Somebody should post something here.

I want to read this discusion- although I have nothing to add to it at the moment.

 

[thebullet]

sweetnpetite said:
Somebody should post something here.

I want to read this discusion- although I have nothing to add to it at the moment.

I was hoping that posting this little missive would generate some response. I for one fear for the future of American democracy. There are so many people who look at the last election and say: well, no difference, Kerry or Bush, better the devil you know.

But there was a difference, a major difference. Kerry was just another typical low-life American politician. We've had plenty of them as Presidents and have survived quite well, thank you.

But Bush is a genuine threat to the Constitution. His muddled, low-brow, ineffectual persona makes one think that the man is harmless. Yes he is stupid. No he has no inate talent. But he is in thrall to the most evil men in America.

Freedom of the press is just about a dead issue. Can freedom of religion or seperation of church and state be far behind?

The Bill of Rights is on the ropes, people. And most people don't know or don't care.

I just don't get it.

 

[Gary Chambers]

We become what we hate

America hated communism, a situation in which the state ultimately owns and controls all commerce. So the U.S.A. went in the other direction. It gifted power and independence on business leaders like offerings at the altar of a deity. It went so far in that direction that now nobody matters but those corporate denizens. The money lenders have kicked Jesus out of the temple because he was a pinko, commie who hung around with a crack whore. Corporate leaders are the new high priests of the American Empire.

Unfortunately, while Soviet communism was totalitarian, American merchant capitalism is authoritarian. Both situations are dangerous but authoritarianism is arguably the worst of the two, because the high priests get to make the rules up as they go. In a totalitarian state everyone knows the rules because everyone is in total agreement with them. In an authoritarian state the rules change without notice according to the whims of the high priests. That's why a stripper in Texas must wear an ID tag (so I'm told) or she is not allowed to earn her living, while the executives of Enron can be scofflaws and get away with it.

The media isn't to blame. It's just another branch of the new religion of Corporatism, like the Vatican Bank. If you don't like it, change it.

 

[thebullet]

The media isn't to blame. It's just another branch of the new religion of Corporatism, like the Vatican Bank. If you don't like it, change it.

"If you don't like it change it" - that's easy enough for you to say from your European perch. No offense, Gary, but how do you suggest we do that? Big business has all the money, they control the media, they control most of the religions. This is a mature society with all kinds of idenity controls; where anti-government activists can disappear due to the patriot act; where a word to the IRS can turn your world upside down.

America has slowly moved from the land of the free to the land of the controlled. Some of us hoped that by defeating the Bush administration we could make a small step in the other direction. But business certainly wasn't going to allow that. And the democrats are only marginally less beholden to big business.

 

[rgraham666]

Re: We become what we hate

America hated communism, a situation in which the state ultimately owns and controls all commerce. So the U.S.A. went in the other direction.

As that favourite saying of mine goes, "What you resist, you become."

 

[SeaCat]

Bullet,

You act like this is a big surprise to you. Look at the history of the news in America and you'll find that this, like Terrorism has been around for a long time. If you doubt look at the Spanish American war and it's causes.

It is the American Publics duty to look at the news with a jaundiced eye, and find out the truth. (It can be done, it just takes some effort.) About your comment about the public here in general, unfortunately you are correct in many cases.

About the IRS and the Patriot act, it takes a bit more effort than you mention, but it's getting there.

We're not in a police state, yet. As for whether or not we become one, and what kind I wont place any bets. Bush is lacking two much needed bases of support to become the ruler of America, the Military and the Internal Police Forces. (Although he is trying on both counts he isn't there yet.) The next warning sign for our government and nation heading towards a police state will most likely be a National Identification Card. It's been mentioned but they can't get the backing for it yet. (Too many people know what that would mean and entail.)

What worries me more than a Police State is the chasm which is growing in the United States. This can possibly lead to another Civil War. (Off Beat question here. Why do they call it a Civil War? There's nothing civil about it.)

Cat

 

[curious2c]

I learned a long time ago about the media and how 'free' it really is.

I remembered a report how the daughter of some muckity-muck at CBS was getting married in New York City. The guest list read like the who's who of the media giants.

CBS, NBC, ABC, and even CBN had senior editors, presidents and others there. All of them it seems go to the same clubs, have dinner together, even belong to the same orginizations.

So, after that, when someone would mention how 'free' or independent our news media was I knew better.

This, by the way was back in the seventies.


I also know that the editors, by choosing to not cover a lead or story are by default, causing sway of public opinion.

I have not believed anything in the mass media for years now. I can see that in the end there is nothing new under the sun, only a new way of presenting it to the American Sheeple.

 

[rgraham666]

I worry about that as well, Seacat.

Too many people on all sides of the political spectrum no longer want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

They want their own way.

I'm working on a history of the Second American Civil War for a story I have in mind.

And before you ask, the people who win that one are the same people who won the Yugoslavian Civil War.

 

[SeaCat]

I'm working on a history of the Second American Civil War for a story I have in mind.

You're scaring me here big guy. I've been working on one off and on for about a year now. (Involves a Theocracy and the government witholding a cure for a fatal disease as a controll measure.)

Cat

 

[rgraham666]

You ought to read this book SeaCat.

A very similar scenario and a pretty good read.

Mine I'm making very similar to the first. The two sides drawing to far apart to talk anymore.

I've decided the triggering event will be another Kent State.

I love irony.

 

[SeaCat]

Looks good, I'll have to read it.

I'm sure you've read Revolt in 2100.

Cat

 

[rikaaim]

Looks good, I'll have to read it.

I'm sure you've read Revolt in 2100.

Cat

2100? I don't think it'll even take that long.

 

[thebullet]

Bullet,

You act like this is a big surprise to you. Look at the history of the news in America and you'll find that this, like Terrorism has been around for a long time. If you doubt look at the Spanish American war and it's causes.

Uh, Seacat, you might reread my original piost. In I stated:

I knew all that Moyers brought out already

Seacat, you obviously misunderstand me. It isn't me that is surprised. I'm just trying to allert the majority of Americans that have their heads buried firmly in the fucking sand.

As for trying to compare the press today with the muckrakers of the 19th century: please! Pulitzer and Hearst were small potatoes compared to what is happening today. They were not influenced or controlled by any forces larger than the desire to increase circulation and show off how powerful a so-called 'free' press is. Today's media is 1000's of times more insidious. I don't mean to exaggerate, but New York City at that time had almost as many independently owned news media corporations as exist in the United States today.

 

[SeaCat]

2100? I don't think it'll even take that long.

LOL
Probably not, unfortunately. What this is though is the title to a book written by my favorite Sci-Fi author. Robert A. Heinlein.

Cat

 

[rikaaim]

LOL
Probably not, unfortunately. What this is though is the title to a book written by my favorite Sci-Fi author. Robert A. Heinlein.

Cat

Yeah, I got it was the title. It's funny to look back at old works and see what "they" thought the world would be like now. You know, like a movie made in the '40s that portrays todays lifestyles. Always good for a laugh. So, how accurate are we about the future?

 

[rgraham666]

Looks good, I'll have to read it.

I'm sure you've read Revolt in 2100.

Cat

Yep. Been a Heinlein fan since I was 14. I think he kind of lost it in his later years.

The last good one I read by him was The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.

And Starship Troopers had an enormous effect on me. Still does. I especially liked his linking authourity and responsibility. A link I wish more people were aware of. And acted on.

 

[SeaCat]

Yep. Been a Heinlein fan since I was 14. I think he kind of lost it in his later years.

The last good one I read by him was The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.

And Starship Troopers had an enormous effect on me. Still does. I especially liked his linking authourity and responsibility. A link I wish more people were aware of. And acted on.

I agree with Starship troopers and your feelings on the link. Too bad more people don't feel that way.

Cat

 

[thebullet]

Yep. Been a Heinlein fan since I was 14. I think he kind of lost it in his later years.

The last good one I read by him was The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.

And Starship Troopers had an enormous effect on me. Still does. I especially liked his linking authourity and responsibility. A link I wish more people were aware of. And acted on.

I, too have been a Heinlein fan since I was 12. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is my fav. But Revolt in 2100 is particularly prophetic in light of the increasing power of the radical right married to extreme fundamendalist Christianity.

Starship Troopers was always high on my list of his stories but I must admit that re-reading it today makes it look more militaristic and even fascist than I originally took it for. And his last few books starting with I Shall Fear No Evil were pretty hard to read.

BTW, my stories Death by Fucking and Tales of the eKids owe a lot to Methuselah's Children for some of their source ideas.

 

[JohnMorrison]

i don't know what you are talking about...the media is LEFT WING!!!!!!!!! why can't you see through the left-wing bullshit. you fuckin left wingers think you have to "enlighten" everyone to how stupid they are or how the whole fuckin world is against you and you are the righteous... shut the hell up, you don't know what your talking about just what you saw on the Left wing controlled media, fox news has a bad rep because they are right wing and everyone else is left wing so they have destroyed their reputation. Ya rupert murdoch is a dick, but not all of fox news. fahrenheit 9/11 is total bullshit, michael moore is an idiot, bush is not the fucking anti-christ, more than half the country voted for him maybe you think he is satan himself, but he is the choice of the people so unless you have grounds to impeach him move the fuck on you can't do anything about it. the right wingers didnt throw hissy fits everyday through 8 years of clinton, but they had plenty of reason to. you think saddam was a nice guy? well you go live in his iraq then, then tell us how nice of a guy he was. you left wingers need to get off your fake moral high ground and deal with the real fucking world

 

[Colleen Thomas]

i don't know what you are talking about...the media is LEFT WING!!!!!!!!! why can't you see through the left-wing bullshit. you fuckin left wingers think you have to "enlighten" everyone to how stupid they are or how the whole fuckin world is against you and you are the righteous... shut the hell up, you don't know what your talking about just what you saw on the Left wing controlled media, fox news has a bad rep because they are right wing and everyone else is left wing so they have destroyed their reputation. Ya rupert murdoch is a dick, but not all of fox news. fahrenheit 9/11 is total bullshit, michael moore is an idiot, bush is not the fucking anti-christ, more than half the country voted for him maybe you think he is satan himself, but he is the choice of the people so unless you have grounds to impeach him move the fuck on you can't do anything about it. the right wingers didnt throw hissy fits everyday through 8 years of clinton, but they had plenty of reason to. you think saddam was a nice guy? well you go live in his iraq then, then tell us how nice of a guy he was. you left wingers need to get off your fake moral high ground and deal with the real fucking world

In truth we did throw a fit through all of Clinton's administration. I think we should be honest there. I know I did and most of those I know did. On the other hand, While I hated Clinton's guts, I reserved my anger and scorn for him, the liberals now hate everyone who voted against them, even those who didn't vote for Bush. So asking them to act civil is a waste of breath. ASking them to be open minded or fair is also a waste. They hate. Indiscriminately. And they lie and distort and prophesy the end times, see the world in worst case scenario and generally, do everything in the world to belie their self bestowed title of the intelligensia of the country.

Your response is harsh, I have ceased trying because mine would sound just as harsh if I continued to bang my head against the wall of Us or them that liberals have erected. Hypocritical, sanctimonius, holier than thou, it isn't just for the religious right any more.

-Colly

 

[thebullet]

JohnMorrison said:
the right wingers didnt throw hissy fits everyday through 8 years of clinton

Did I miss something, or did the right wing impeach Clinton for getting a blow job?

i don't know what you are talking about...the media is LEFT WING!!!!!!!!!

This is known as the Big Lie. Every right wing propagandist knows that if you say something loud enough and long enough, people will actually believe it no matter how ridiculous. How could you possibly believe that the media is left wing? Are you still living in the 1960's? I have too much respect for you as an individual, JohnMorrison. I know you must be lying cause you can't be that fucking dumb.

And for you, Colly: if you are a true Conservative, why are you supporting this radical administration? The country is in tatters, the world thinks that the American people must be a bunch of idiots.

I have lived in peace and accord with many flavors of administration over the course of the last half-century. This is the first that has frightened me. This is the first that I have actively opposed. I wasn't wild about Johnson but I kept my mouth shut. Nixon was paranoid delusional, but I supported his presidency. Ford was a nice guy with very little talent or imagination. Carter was an idealist who had no clue about the real world - him I campaigned against. Reagon was a mental lightweight who was driven by ideology but not consumed by it. Bush Sr. was stuck with an agenda that was left over from Reagon and an economy he couldn't fix. Not a bad guy but rather unsuccessful as a Pres. Clinton was a man of massive talent and massive foibles.

But Bush Jr. is the anti-Christ (as colly so adroitly put it). The man has no talent, no intelligence, is run by handlers who are consumed by their ideologically pure world vision.

Why does my opposition to this evil administration make me a liberal in your eyes? I am not a liberal. I am a guy whose eyes are open. I suggest you open your own.

 

[thebullet]

Coleen said:
ASking them to be open minded or fair is also a waste.

Colly: is your version of 'open minded or fair' similar to Fox News' 'fair and balanced'? If so, I'm glad I'm neither open minded nor fair.

Still, it puzzles me. Those of us who want to save the Constitution of the US are called narrow minded and hateful. I supported the war in Afghanistan. Because I believe the war in Iraq to be reprehensible does that make me un-American in your eyes?

We seem to be so far apart that a civil discussion seems impossible.

I didn't make up the post that started this thread. I was merely repeating words I personally heard from the mouths of Right Wing pundents. They are proud of the fact that they control the media. They are also proud of the fact that they can convince simple-minded and naive people like JohnMorrison that the media is controlled by the left wing.

The right wing pundents find this all very amusing.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Did I miss something, or did the right wing impeach Clinton for getting a blow job?



This is known as the Big Lie. Every right wing propagandist knows that if you say something loud enough and long enough, people will actually believe it no matter how ridiculous. How could you possibly believe that the media is left wing? Are you still living in the 1960's? I have too much respect for you as an individual, JohnMorrison. I know you must be lying cause you can't be that fucking dumb.

And for you, Colly: if you are a true Conservative, why are you supporting this radical administration? The country is in tatters, the world thinks that the American people must be a bunch of idiots.

I have lived in peace and accord with many flavors of administration over the course of the last half-century. This is the first that has frightened me. This is the first that I have actively opposed. I wasn't wild about Johnson but I kept my mouth shut. Nixon was paranoid delusional, but I supported his presidency. Ford was a nice guy with very little talent or imagination. Carter was an idealist who had no clue about the real world - him I campaigned against. Reagon was a mental lightweight who was driven by ideology but not consumed by it. Bush Sr. was stuck with an agenda that was left over from Reagon and an economy he couldn't fix. Not a bad guy but rather unsuccessful as a Pres. Clinton was a man of massive talent and massive foibles.

But Bush Jr. is the anti-Christ (as colly so adroitly put it). The man has no talent, no intelligence, is run by handlers who are consumed by their ideologically pure world vision.

Why does my opposition to this evil administration make me a liberal in your eyes? I am not a liberal. I am a guy whose eyes are open. I suggest you open your own.

Frankly, you're a pin head. *SHRUGS*

I don't think I have said anything in support of this administration. I think I have been highly critical of it in fact. What's more, I have been ultra critical of the persons who make up this administration from top to bottom, pulling few if any punches.

You are a liberal, and an idiot. You have totally alienated me, by telling me I am stupid for not thinking the way you do, by telling me how I should think as a woman, as a lesbian, as a good citizen. You disparage my intelligence at every opportunity, simply because I have the capability to look at both sides and because I have the capacity to think in ways you don't approve of.

Take your cock sure attitude, your sanctimonious holier than thou lectures and stuff it where the sun don't shine. While you are at it, find something else to whine about for a day or two if you can. The constant stream of woe is us has finally worn thin.

-Colly

 

[SeaCat]

i don't know what you are talking about...the media is LEFT WING!!!!!!!!! why can't you see through the left-wing bullshit. you fuckin left wingers think you have to "enlighten" everyone to how stupid they are or how the whole fuckin world is against you and you are the righteous... shut the hell up, you don't know what your talking about just what you saw on the Left wing controlled media, fox news has a bad rep because they are right wing and everyone else is left wing so they have destroyed their reputation. Ya rupert murdoch is a dick, but not all of fox news. fahrenheit 9/11 is total bullshit, michael moore is an idiot, bush is not the fucking anti-christ, more than half the country voted for him maybe you think he is satan himself, but he is the choice of the people so unless you have grounds to impeach him move the fuck on you can't do anything about it. the right wingers didnt throw hissy fits everyday through 8 years of clinton, but they had plenty of reason to. you think saddam was a nice guy? well you go live in his iraq then, then tell us how nice of a guy he was. you left wingers need to get off your fake moral high ground and deal with the real fucking world

John,

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this, but I am.

As far as I'm concerned with the media, it doesn't matter if they are Right Wing, Left Wing, Centrist, or a combination of all of the above. The News Media has a duty to report the facts. (Not the facts as they see them either.) This they have not been doing for many years. (Many means more than four years.) The majority of the public, both here and around the world has ignored this and swallowed what they were told without questioning it. I can state many historical incidents where a war has been started because of what the press has wrongfully reported. (The history text books used in schools are just as bad. Try to find a reference in a high school history text about the Katyn Forest Massacre and who did it.)

As far as Micheal Moore and his movie, I haven't seen it, and have no interest in seeing it so I can't comment on it.

President Bush. Do I like him? No I do not. Then again I didn't like Clinton either. Hell I haven't thought much of most presidents who have held office since I started voting, back around when you were born.

Did I use Bush's name in one of my posts in this thread? Yes I did. You could replace that name quite easily with the names of the past several presidents and I would still feel the same. (Maybe I should have used the term "The Oval Office" instead of a name but I think you would have still claimed I was Bush Beating and attacked.)

The Secular movement in our Government has been growing for many years now, at least since the formation of our government. You can see it in the wording of many of our laws. To find many examples, read the original Constitution, then read the Amendments to it. If you think about how they are worded, and look at the history behind the amendments, as well as the groups which championed them you will see what I am saying. If of course you are not too blinded by your own personal beliefes and hatreds.

As far as those who dislike Bush not being able to do anything to change things, they can. Remember there is a vote coming up soon where they can retake controll of the Senate by voting for those they like.

Let's see here. Was Saddam a nice guy? Yep he sure was. Just like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Min, and of course that wonderful duo Papa Doc and Baby Doc were nice guys.

The schism I mentioned, as well as the trending of our government towards a police state are things I have been talking about for a long time. Unfortunately the results of the attack on the United States and it's results, (The Patriot Act for one,) have just moved that further along and faster. The loss of personal rights and freedoms to the government in this country has been documented back to the Civil War.

You didn't mention my feelings about the war in Iraq, but I will bring them up. Did we have the need or the right to invade? I personaly don't believe so. However, now that we are there we have the responsibility to see it through.

Speaking of responsibility, the comments which were made about the linking of authority and responsibility are from a book written back during the cold war. (In this book the author has the idea that anyone who wishes to serve in the public capacity, ie government, must first serve a term of duty for that government. The idea being that they will have then earned the right to vote, and creat laws which will directly affect other people. It is an idea called enfranchisement.) Many of the people in our government for the past many years have never served in the military, Because of this they have no idea what it is like to be in the hell called combat, and seem to have no problem with sending our young men and women into that hell. (Something they would think twice about if they had been there themselves.)

About religeon. I personaly could care less what religeon you are. As long as you don't try to force me to believe the way you do. President Bush claims he is a very religeos man, (I can't attest to this as I don't personaly know him.) fine. However, if he makes laws based on his personal religeon then he is in direct violation of the Constitution, something which he is sworn to protect. Is Bush the Anti-Christ? No more than I am.

Now as for my need to get off my "fake moral high ground and deal with the real world". My high ground is neither fake nor moral. (Highly immoral would be more like it. One of the reasons I want to keep my peronal rights and freedoms intact.)As for the real world, I daresay that in my short forty years of living in the United States, as well as several foreign countries I might, maybe have dealt with the real world a little bit.

In closing this I would like you to think about one little thing. Your views and mine don't exactly match. That's fine. You are entitled to your views, it is your right, as it is your right to freely express them both here and in other mediums. I will defend that right for you, not because I like you, but because it is your right. Are you willing to do the same for those who's views don't agree with your own? Or will you sit on your "Moral High Horse" and watch their rights be taken away from them because they don't agree with you?

Sincerely,
SeaCat