Maybe Hollywood worships youth for a reason

Dixon Carter Lee

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I'm doing a reading at the Writers Guild for a group of over-50 TV and film writers who can't get work in the industry anymore because of their age. They meet in solidarity and do readings of their work, just to show they're still alive. So I've been asked to read, and I got the script yestreday, and I'm thinking maybe Hollywood has a point when it ignores older writers.

The script reads like it was written and set in 1955, but it's supposed to be present day, and contains a smattering of contemporary references. The problem is that it's overwhelmingly mired in the past. A 19 year old girl makes a Bob Hope joke. A guy does a telegram joke (I love you. Stop.). The main issue of the play is a Jesse Helms led Washington committee looking for "Reds and Perverts".

The thing must have been written decades ago, and he's trying to update it by including Beavis and Butthead jokes (which, frankly, are also pretty dated). But even without the references the characters all talk about sex and alcohol and life as if they're all living during the Eisenhower administration. I mean the script smells like Ovaltine and Camel cigarettes.

This is no dummy of a writer, either. He's written a few old features, and a lot of TV episodic stuff, but nothing, really, past "Barnaby Jones". It's an awful play, tremendously out of touch with not only the issues of the day, but contemporary speech and theatrical presentation.

So I'm reading this and I'm thinking "This is exactly why these guys don't get work any more." It's not just ageism. I hate to say that, but it's not. A writer must be a voice for his community, and I think after years of writing for "Land of the Giants" and "Harry O" you've pretty much lost any chance of having a 21st century voice.

Not that these guys can't write. I'm sure these guys can crank out a hell of a lot of good plays, movies and TV shows -- there are plenty of stories to be told about their own generation, or about their lives, all of which have value. But I get the feeling that most of them are writing as if the Cold War is still going on, and it shows, and that hurts the old pros who are still turning out quality, relevant scripts.
 
Okay, now tell me why the news media worships Hollywood.
 
They don't, but they know that their readers and viewers do, and will watch, and that drives advertising rates.
 
Dixon Carter Lee said:
Not that these guys can't write. I'm sure these guys can crank out a hell of a lot of good plays, movies and TV shows -- there are plenty of stories to be told about their own generation, or about their lives, all of which have value. But I get the feeling that most of them are writing as if the Cold War is still going on, and it shows, and that hurts the old pros who are still turning out quality, relevant scripts.
As you said they have the aptitude, so it must be a problem of attitude. One of the smartest surgeons I have ever met and listened to was retired and in his seventies. This guy was not only up to date on the latest stuff, he was writing, lecturing on it and leading the cutting edge research (pun intended).

Tell them what you think, and tell them to get their heads out of their asses - Hollywood was never known for their originality, whether it was the old lions or the new guard. :rolleyes:
 
It does make an intresting note that even though you were once a teenager yourself it does not always follow that you have your finger on the pulse of the nation's youth.
 
Well Fuck!

I Woulda Rather Watched Something Outdated Than Growing Up With Meatballs And Porkys Movies!
 
RawHumor said:
Okay, now tell me why the news media worships Hollywood.

Because a lot of the major news outlets are owned by Hollywood companies. ABC news is owned by Disney, CNN is owned by AOL Time Warner, and FOX is owned by Fox. Duh.
 
Re: Well Fuck!

RudeNastyAssBitch said:
I Woulda Rather Watched Something Outdated Than Growing Up With Meatballs And Porkys Movies!

That doesn't really speak to anything. I'd rather watch something with meat in it too, but a play about the evils of congressional communist witch hunts, that is supposedly taking place in 2002? That's more than out of date, that's out of touch.
 
Re: Re: Well Fuck!

Dixon Carter Lee said:
That doesn't really speak to anything. I'd rather watch something with meat in it too, but a play about the evils of congressional communist witch hunts, that is supposedly taking place in 2002? That's more than out of date, that's out of touch.

You read a screenplay by REDWAVE?!?!?
:eek:
 
Re: Re: Well Fuck!

Dixon Carter Lee said:


That doesn't really speak to anything. I'd rather watch something with meat in it too, but a play about the evils of congressional communist witch hunts, that is supposedly taking place in 2002? That's more than out of date, that's out of touch.

Ok so why can't theyh write period pieces? There's always a market for them.
 
Meatballs and Porkys Movies?

I find hanging around porn sites is a great way of keeping in touch with the younger generation, myself.


sunstruck,
I don' think they want to write period pieces.
 
Re: Re: Re: Well Fuck!

sunstruck said:
Ok so why can't theyh write period pieces? There's always a market for them.

That's different. Writing a period piece that takes place in that period is one thing.

Writing about how much of a threat Elvis' hips are in a screenplay that takes place in 2002 is a bit of a stretch.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Well Fuck!

RawHumor said:


That's different. Writing a period piece that takes place in that period is one thing.

Writing about how much of a threat Elvis' hips are in a screenplay that takes place in 2002 is a bit of a stretch.


But that was my POINT. lol

Never, if you mean they are trying to be "hip", to proove they still have a handle on the pulse of youth culture, then they are fucked.

I'm 27, I work with teenagers regularly and I haven't got a clue what the fuck they're thinking most of the time.

People need to accept limitations.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well Fuck!

sunstruck said:
But that was my POINT. lol

DOH! I mis-read your post. Okay, I'm going home now.

On a side-note, it kicks a lot of ass to get to ride a bike to work and back.
 
Re: Re: Maybe Hollywood worships youth for a reason

Shy Tall Guy said:
As you said they have the aptitude, so it must be a problem of attitude. One of the smartest surgeons I have ever met and listened to was retired and in his seventies. This guy was not only up to date on the latest stuff, he was writing, lecturing on it and leading the cutting edge research (pun intended).

Tell them what you think, and tell them to get their heads out of their asses - Hollywood was never known for their originality, whether it was the old lions or the new guard. :rolleyes:

Good point -- most likely one of the reason why that surgeon is so up-to-date is that he has no problem being open to and learning from people of younger generations. As people get older it's natural -- even for the brightest to feel overwhelmed by one new element after another entering their lives.

The problem for a writer -- as I see it -- in referencing his own time (the one we're living in now) is that to make pop culture references -- you have to *care* about pop culture. And while I can see a surgeon or a lawyer bring intrigued by a new surgical technique or the complexity of accounting for intellectual property in the internet age -- what Britney Spears is up to isn't exactly fascinating.

It's easy to see pop culture as lacking in challenge and value. Particularly as we get older and life becomes more intricate and layered. What has emotional impact and meaning at 19 -- can, sometimes, seem ridiculous at 55.

So, sounds to me like a resistance to doing research. And every good writer knows that doing research to make your scenario ring true is vitally important. Corny as this sounds, but if he was setting his play in modern day Italy -- he'd have to be able to make references that reflected what was currently going on to give it authenticity. Hence the research.

Throw a pile of Entertainment Weekly's at them and see if they get the idea. ;)

P. :rose:
 
Ok you can't compare Surgical prceedure to pop culture. It just doesn't work.

One is an exat science, the other an attitude and understanding.
 
The trouble is not the "time" they're writing in, but rather the "timelieness" of what they're writing about.

I went through this a couple of years back with Sol Saks (who created "Bewitched"). He had a play he wanted me to do, and, again, it was sent in contemporary times, and was about racism. But it was about racism through a 1960s sensibilities. Issues he hoped to discuss were issues long ago resolved, and his language showed that he was out of touch with how people discuss race these days. He was "illuminating" problems that have greatly changed in tenure, tone and rhetoric, and it was clear that he hadn't kept up. And even if he has set the play in the 50s I still think it would have felt dated and irrelevant.

When you write a period piece, you're still actually writing about today. That doesn't mean you have to have modern vocabulary, but you do have to have a modern perspective, a viewpoint, a voice, otherwise you're speaking to an audience long dead. Merchant Ivory films make take place a century ago, but they speak to today because they have universal themes of intimacy and communication. Sol Saks' piece was not about anything except his BIG ISSUES, and they were out of touch with contemporary dialogue. If the play were about the people delaing with the issues of their time (and he actually set the thing in 50s or 60s), that would be different, because then the focus of the play would be on the relationships, and relationships are always universal, and transcend time.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well Fuck!

sunstruck:
"Never, if you mean they are trying to be "hip", to proove they still have a handle on the pulse of youth culture, then they are fucked.

I'm 27, I work with teenagers regularly and I haven't got a clue what the fuck they're thinking most of the time.

People need to accept limitations."


I don't think a good writer would have that limitation though. People are pretty much the same but their culture and personality changes how they speak, act, dress, etc. If a writer doesn't learn to step outside of themself then they can only write people of the same age, SE bracket, and region they grew up in.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well Fuck!

sunstruck said:



I'm 27, I work with teenagers regularly and I haven't got a clue what the fuck they're thinking most of the time.

People need to accept limitations.

Yeah, but are you getting paid to know exactly what they're talking about? Because a writer trying to sell a script better make it marketable. Maybe you don't need to communicate to your audience (the kids you work with) on *exactly* their level because it would undermine your authority. You not knowing what they're talking about sets you apart from them -- and maybe that makes them see you in a different light. A good thing depending on what you do. But a writer needs to be inside the heads of the people he/she is writing about. Otherwise the voice is false and inauthentic.
 
sunstruck said:
Ok you can't compare Surgical prceedure to pop culture. It just doesn't work.

One is an exat science, the other an attitude and understanding.

I think you're missing the point that I was making.
 
sunstruck said:
Ok you can't compare Surgical prceedure to pop culture. It just doesn't work.

One is an exat science, the other an attitude and understanding.
My point was that it is all attitude; once you get the attitude that you know everything, that you no longer need to adapt and learn, that you are okay just where you are, then you are behind the curve. The longer you are behind the curve the farther back you fall. It doesn't matter whether it is a science or an art - my profession is software engineering, it is more of a science than an art, but if I don't keep up on what is going on, day to day, I fall behind. Ask any Pascal programmer how much demand they have for their skills. COBOL programmers are only in demand because there are still legacy systems out there that have moved to Java Enterprise systems yet - in ten years COBOL will be ancient history.

Same goes for medical science - it has been around for centuries, but if you do not keep up on the latest stuff you fall behind.

Persephone36, this surgeon wasn't who he was just because he was willing to learn from younger peers (although he was willing to learn) - he was out there making the breakthroughs rather than learning about them. People came from all around the country to hear him speak because they, many of them leaders in the field of Spinal Trauma, knew they could learn up to date and new knowledge from him.
 
Persephone36 said:


I think you're missing the point that I was making.


That, or I was talking to STG.


So is it ageism Dix? Because it sounds to me like they just aren't up to the task.
 
Dixon Carter Lee said:
The trouble is not the "time" they're writing in, but rather the "timelieness" of what they're writing about.


I think I see what you're saying now. So for example, what makes an Edward Albee still relevant and powerful as a contemporary playwright writing in his 70's -- is the universal themes he touches upon. He's hitting an emotional chord in people today. I know that's not exactly television script stuff, but I see what you mean.
 
sunstruck said:
That, or I was talking to STG.
That is why I use quotes or address the person I am talking to, otherwise I assume everyone knows/assumes I am speaking to everyone in general.
 
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