Math(s) question for the Brits

[minsue]

I'm confused. I'm beyond confused. I'm utterly confuzzled.

It's come up on this board in the past that the word "billion" doesn't mean the same thing to those of you on the eastern side of the Atlantic as it does to those on the western side (I think it was Lauren that explained it?). This has also come up a couple of times since I started living over here because I'm thrown when I hear someone say something like "ten thousand million" instead of "ten billion". As best I understand it, while Americans call one thousand million a billion, Brits call one million million a billion. (10 to the power of 9 vs 10 to the power of 12) I've checked dictionaries and they all state the same, so I know I'm not remembering totally wrong.

I have enough trouble wrapping my head around this anyway, but even more so when reading news stories that give dollar/pound amounts because the conversions never appear to take that into account. For example, in an article about how the US national debt was nearing $9 trillion, the BBC news converted that into just over £5 trillion when, in theory, it should be just over £5 billion because your billions are the same as our trillions. (See why my head hurts???)

Now today in the news they're talking about the new budget for the London Olympics and I'm all confuzzled all over again. The budget apparently now stands at £5.3bn. I started thinking about that damnable billion/billion translation again and marveling over how much fucking money that was since, again in theory, that would actually be about the same as the US national fucking debt (your billions being our trillions again...). The more I thought about it the more I thought that just can't be possible so I looked further on the BBC news website and found other articles stating:

• (from 2005) - Income will come from an Olympic Lottery competition (£1.5billion)
  
• (from today) - Ms Jowell said that to met the extra costs the National Lottery would continute an extra £675m - bringing its total contribution to £2.2bn.

Now those figures would imply that you count billions the American way. Otherwise it would take a hell of a lot more than a few hundred million pounds to add up to 2.2 billion from 1.5.

So my question is this - Just what in the hell is a billion to you people? I'm starting to feel like this is a trick just to fuck with the foreigners.

And before you ask - yes, my brain is totally fuzzy and scattered today....I'm sure that has to do with my comprehension issues as well as my obsession on such an odd topic. Humor me?

Maybe I just need a nap.

 

[king_wesley]

THe British (or porbably also European) billion is in theory 1,000,000,000,000 but as with all things you need a uniform regulation for these things otherwise simpletons get confuzzled .

Therefore it is now very rare to see a billion meaning a British Billion, (probably only in mathematics and maybe not even that) so these days 1 billion pounds would be 2 billion dollars (because the currency still kicks arse either way right now) so thinking in American is fine.

This happens to a lot of things. Within five years I think the British ise will be phased out in favour of that horrible z thing and heaven forbid one day the u may disappear too.

But for now, billions are the same for all.

 

[minsue]

THe British (or porbably also European) billion is in theory 1,000,000,000,000 but as with all things you need a uniform regulation for these things otherwise simpletons get confuzzled .

Therefore it is now very rare to see a billion meaning a British Billion, (probably only in mathematics and maybe not even that) so these days 1 billion pounds would be 2 billion dollars (because the currency still kicks arse either way right now) so thinking in American is fine.

This happens to a lot of things. Within five years I think the British ise will be phased out in favour of that horrible z thing and heaven forbid one day the u may disappear too.

But for now, billions are the same for all.

Thank you muchly. You have no idea how much confuses us simpletons.

I'd assumed it was the same throughout Europe, but enough people on this island have a bug up their a(r)s(e)s about being called European that I decided to limit my query to the UK (the question involving pounds and all...). Of course, those who are English bitch about being called British, too, but I'm not about to start listing ethnicities individually. I'm waaaay too lazy for that.

Just so I know I'm not going totally mad, I'm happy.

Thanks again.

 

[king_wesley]

You're welcome.

And for the record I'm an English, Irish, Romanian, Romany. Don't go insulting me by assuming I'm just plain British >(

 

[minsue]

You're welcome.

And for the record I'm an English, Irish, Romanian, Romany. Don't go insulting me by assuming I'm just plain British >(

. .

 

[Lauren Hynde]

The BBC has obviously joined the ranks of cultural sell-outs. I always thought they'd be the last to sink. The Brits are now officially doomed.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Hiya, Min!

I've seen the term "milliard," which I think means a U.S. billion.

If you want to get technical, I think "oodles" can mean a million, and "oodles and oodles" a billion.

 

[Remec]

The BBC has obviously joined the ranks of cultural sell-outs. I always thought they'd be the last to sink. The Brits are now officially doomed.

Alright, I'll admit it...ya done lost me.

I thought these things were universal:
ones
tens
hundreds
thousands
millions
billions
trillions....

What exactly is the difference in definition again?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Hiya, Min!

I've seen the term "milliard," which I think means a U.S. billion.

If you want to get technical, I think "oodles" can mean a million, and "oodles and oodles" a billion.

Then there is the googleplex 10 to the 10th to the 10th.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Alright, I'll admit it...ya done lost me.

I thought these things were universal:
ones
tens
hundreds
thousands
millions
billions
trillions....

What exactly is the difference in definition again?

Up to millions, it's the same everywhere.

In the US, a thousand millions is a called a billion. In Europe, it's a thousand millions.
In the US, a million millions is a trillion. In Europe, it's a billion.

1,000,000: million | million
1,000,000,000: billion | one thousand millions
1,000,000,000,000: trillion | billion
1,000,000,000,000,000: quadrillion | one thousand billions
1,000,000,000,000,000,000: quintillion | trillion
etc...

 

[minsue]

The Brits are now officially doomed.

Hell, I knew that when they gave me a residency. There's no standards here at all any more.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Hell, I knew that when they gave me a residency. There's no standards here at all any more.

They let Charley though without so much as a frisk!

 

[Lauren Hynde]

In Europe

I should have said in Europe except the British Isles and Greece, I think.

 

[oggbashan]

The BBC has obviously joined the ranks of cultural sell-outs. I always thought they'd be the last to sink. The Brits are now officially doomed.

The media (pronounced 'meedeejiah') have adopted and popularised the US version of billion so that UK politicians now use billion to mean one thousand million. The old UK version of billion to mean one million million was too large a sum to be a useful figure in politics. It was used in post-WWI mega-inflationary Germany when banknotes were worthless almost as soon as they were printed. That sort of inflation destroys countries.

A picture of a sample German banknote is attached. If that had been post-WWII marks, this note might have bought a large part of West Germany.

Og

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Up to millions, it's the same everywhere.

In the US, a thousand millions is a called a billion. In Europe, it's a thousand millions.
In the US, a million millions is a trillion. In Europe, it's a billion.

1,000,000: million | million
1,000,000,000: billion | one thousand millions
1,000,000,000,000: trillion | billion
1,000,000,000,000,000: quadrillion | one thousand billions
1,000,000,000,000,000,000: quintillion | trillion
etc...

You see, there are some things that I just chaulk up to cultural differences. But in this case, I really think the Americans have it right. Each thousand places has its own name, and it all works, instead of having a double-thousand thingy. "A hundred thousand millions" is about the worst way of saying a number I have ever heard of.

 

[minsue]

You see, there are some things that I just chaulk up to cultural differences. But in this case, I really think the Americans have it right. Each thousand places has its own name, and it all works, instead of having a double-thousand thingy. "A hundred thousand millions" is about the worst way of saying a number I have ever heard of.

Them's fightin' words. . . (though I happen to agree wholeheartedly )

 

[Lauren Hynde]

You see, there are some things that I just chaulk up to cultural differences. But in this case, I really think the Americans have it right. Each thousand places has its own name, and it all works, instead of having a double-thousand thingy. "A hundred thousand millions" is about the worst way of saying a number I have ever heard of.

You would be right, except that the word billion means a million millions. You say the Americans have it right because each thousand places has it's own name, but the name (-illion) refers to millions, not thousands. The Europeans have it more right because each power of a million places has its own -illion name.

 

[gauchecritic]

I think I must be ill. An ideal thread for a cultural, socio-political, globalisation rant and I just can't be arsed.

 

[king_wesley]

Of course computer techy people probably go:

1,000,000 - Million
1,000,000,000 - Kilomillion
1,000,000,000,000 - Megamillion
1,000,000,000,000,000 - Gigamillion

 

[shereads]

I'm glad you asked this, Min. I've heard the same thing and it worries me. When I make my first billion and want to spend some time in Britain, will I be allowed to introduce myself as a billionaire, or will I have to qualify it? "Hi. I'm an American billionaire" sounds crass.

 

[only_more_so]

Then there is the googleplex 10 to the 10th to the 10th.

No. A google is 10 to the 100th. A googleplex is 10 to the googleth. As if a google wasn't already ridiculous.

 

[Boxlicker101]

You see, there are some things that I just chaulk up to cultural differences. But in this case, I really think the Americans have it right. Each thousand places has its own name, and it all works, instead of having a double-thousand thingy. "A hundred thousand millions" is about the worst way of saying a number I have ever heard of.

That is a bad way, alright, but I think "oodles and oodles" is even worse.

 

[Vermilion]

King Wesley - I'm a one-woman crusade against using z in my spellings.
I use the cambridge approved spellings of baptise, realise etc...

And my MS Word programme has been taught this too.


x
V

 

[Remec]

They let Charley though without so much as a frisk!

Man, must have been someone either asleep or totally antisocial on the job. I mean, I'd be making up reasons to frisk Charley. Y'know?

 

[Boxlicker101]

King Wesley - I'm a one-woman crusade against using z in my spellings.
I use the cambridge approved spellings of baptise, realise etc...

And my MS Word programme has been taught this too.


x
V

So, what is the metal thing that closes to fasten your jacket, and what is the nickname for Doc M. and what is that black and white striped animal and what is that place you find them and some other animals in cages or pens, etc. and how much is two minus two?