Manipulation in the lifestyle. Please help!

[Yasashii_Kaze]

Okay, I need all you wise people for this one. I have a very close friend who recently (last couple of years) became a domme. She found a boy not terribly long afterwards, and was excited to be living in the lifestyle. She is a really affectionate person and believes in having a close relationship with someone you have collared. The boy she is with has pretty much only played with dommes and never been in a 24/7.

She was so eager when they started that I believe she overlooked a lot of little red flags he gave off. He began making snide little remarks about how she wasn't mean enough, or "dommely" enough, because she wanted to have an actual relationship instead of just playing all the time. Because she is so new at this, she listened to a lot of what he said, since she didn't feel like she was qualified to tell him where to shove it. He even said at several points that she should just give up and let him top her, because she wasn't any good at it.

Things have escalated into full-blown manipulation on his part. She has cut him loose at least once or twice, only to take him back when he came whining to her, saying he would work harder, and improve, and all that bullshit. Now that he knows that she is in love with him, he pretty much emotionally abuses her. It's all about him and what he wants. The latest straw was today, when he flipped out on her because her stepmother had a heart attack yesterday and she told him she wanted to cry.

I am at my wit's end. I knew what he was from the beginning, and I tried to tell her but she believed she could change him or something. It is so easy for me to see what's going on and tell her what she should do, but she doesn't need to hear "I told you so." She will be getting online and reading this thread, so can anyone give us advice on how to sever ties with the manipulative asshole? Anything genuine is appreciated!

 

[EmpressFi]

Sadly, until she's ready to accept that he's bad for her, nothing you can do or say can make her see it. And sometimes, even when she does see it, she'll keep taking him back. I wish I could offer some magic words that would bestow greatness. PM me if you want to chat. I've been in your shoes recently.

 

[Desdemona]

Well said

Sadly, until she's ready to accept that he's bad for her, nothing you can do or say can make her see it. And sometimes, even when she does see it, she'll keep taking him back. I wish I could offer some magic words that would bestow greatness. PM me if you want to chat. I've been in your shoes recently.

You can't force people to see things or make changes until the pain or irritation of where they are becomes more than they can bear. It's a learning experience.

 

[kinkyknickers]

I know it sucks but there is a silver lining to this one.

I myself am a shoe that has been on that particular foot (although not as a domme). My friends did the "I told you so" before I realised it was over.

She needs to make her own mistake on this account, sucks to be you, I know, but the best friend you can be for her, is the one who listens afterwards and picks up the pieces. I told you so, is self serving and not helpful.

She'll be crushed, but hopefully, she won't make the same mistake twice (god knows I won't) and that is the greatest gift you can give her in this instance.

Be there, it'll only make your friendship stronger. We learn best from our own mistakes. It's alot easier when your judgement isn't clouded by feelings of love or lust.

Hopefully, she may even find herself in a wonderful loving relationship down the track (like me! Purrrr), when she least expects it. Good luck to you both.

KK

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Unfortunately, what Fi, Des and kinkyknickers have said above is about all there *is* to say about this type of situation. Your friend will have to come to her own internal realization that this ... person ... is not good for her and that he's been using and manipulating her from the get-go before she'll be able to completely give him up, not only through physical separation but by accepting in herself that she made a mistake - but one from which she can - and will - recover.

It's hard for you to stand by and not offer too much advice, I know, but the best thing you can do for her is to be available for her to vent and discuss and cry... and to give her your unqualified friendship and love as she rebuilds the bent and dented portions of her psyche. I wish you both all the luck and peace of mind you need.

 

[Pure]

[deleted]

 

[catalina_francisco]

This is her journey to take, not yours. It is not about you and what you see, feel, believe to be so, it is about what she feels, sees, wants, needs. I know it seems harsh, but you really can't live someone else's life, you can't take on the responsibility of deciding who is right for them, and you can't take a part in forcing them to do as you feel they should. To do so is only on some level verifying and saying the same as he is in that she is not acting in a way which demonstrates the strength to take control. That does not mean she isn't, it means it is how you also are seeing her in feeling it is up to you to find a way for 'us' as you put it to sever ties with the 'manipulative asshole'. We all care for our friends, and sometimes that care means we do not like choices they have made, but we have to respect their right to make these decisions for themselves, to take whatever steps might be needed themselves, and to grow through the process.

I don't know if he is manipulative. He may be as you say, or it could be you just don't gel with him and that causes more friction...we can't know that. It seems your friend has already ended the relationship a couple of times and gone back...once again this is a necessary process for her to go through until she can make it final if that is what she wants. Sometimes we fall in love with people who do not seem to be perfect as far as others see...sometimes they are not who we thought they were but we still love them...sometimes we just need time to reach a point where it is so not working for us we do whatever we need to do and remain strong, and sometimes we find a way to work through the difficulties together. Give her the space and dignity to reach that point and decide for herself what is right for her, otherwise you may risk losing her friendship and/or making matters worse. Be supportive by all means, when asked to, but don't try to make your prophecy her reality before she feels the same and ready, or where she may not ever feel the same as you do. If he is manipulative, this is an important part of her journey in terms of relationships and also being a Domme. Who knows, maybe these two people will discover they want to try switching roles and like it, it wouldn't be the first time.

Catalina

 

[twysted73]

I've heard it said....

"Relationships are Best When They're Balanced".

This emotional dynamic is not balanced. There is control here. There is manipulation here. Relationships are give and take. Mutual respect. Consideration. If my submissive were to walk into the room, I'd know within moments if she's happy, sad, tired, bored, elated...when you truly care about another, you take the time to learn them. To love them. This woman what prompted this thread...She is not happy there.

And the moment she realizes all these things..truly realizes them...she'll be smart enough and strong enough to take action to change and remove him.

Not a moment before.

Your agony as a friend is standing by and watching from the sidelines. Offering support (not enabeling mind you) is all you can really do. Eventually, she will come around.

It just hurts to watch someone you care about and value allow another to hurt and disrespect the one you love.

 

[SubKekiLee]

When you are this close to you dont see a realtionship is unhealthy... Until they are ready to see this you cannot force them to see it is unhealthy, any kind of abuse verbal, physical, mental is not healthy no matter nilla or D/s . There isnt alot you can do but be there for your friend and help her when she asks and hope she realizes it soon enough rather than later. I am sorry to see your friend is in this. It is hard when you love someone to see they arent good for you .. I know this personally.. I truly do..

 

[pink]

He's not good for her, that is obvious. Everyone is right, she has to see this for herself, this has to run it's course for her. Until this has happened, she will keep taking him back. You really cant' do anything except be her friend. i hope very soon, she will reach her point where she has had enough. Best of luck to her.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

She will be getting online and reading this thread, so can anyone give us advice on how to sever ties with the manipulative asshole? Anything genuine is appreciated!

Yes... Tell him - "Get out of my life. NOW" Remove his number from the phone book. Delete him off the cel. Block him from the land line. Put every IM and email address he has in the blocked list. Report him to the police as a stalker EVERY time he initiates contact after being told to leave her alone.

That or slit his belly open and eviscerate him, then dump the body in a swamp full of alligators. As long as no bullets are left or knife cuts to bone are present, soft tissue damage leaves very little forensic evidence behind after decomposition.

Either way works for me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Sheesh, sure wouldn't want most of you on a jury if you are so ready to assume a person's character and behaviour based on the feelings and opinion of one person and the possible feelings of another and a lot of hearsay. Haven't we had these type discussions here before and come to the conclusion that at best we are usually only getting some of the information, possibly biased, and may not be exactly as made out to be? I am not so ready to condemn and sentence someone who has not even been given the benefit of being here to defend himself. If I was I would say, OK, he said she was not strong Domme material and incapable of taking charge, she has dumped him a couple of times and taken him back and also felt she didn't have a right to challenge his POV, instead listening and feeling compelled to take it on board, and may possibly now be complaining he is emotionally abusing her while she remains in the relationship...perhaps he isn't talking through his hat. Isn't the simple solution simply to end the relationship if they are indeed not a good match and unhappy with each other instead of making accusations behind his back to a bunch of strangers who know neither of them, or the truth of it all?

Catalina

 

[Yasashii_Kaze]

Yes... Tell him - "Get out of my life. NOW" Remove his number from the phone book. Delete him off the cel. Block him from the land line. Put every IM and email address he has in the blocked list. Report him to the police as a stalker EVERY time he initiates contact after being told to leave her alone.

That or slit his belly open and eviscerate him, then dump the body in a swamp full of alligators. As long as no bullets are left or knife cuts to bone are present, soft tissue damage leaves very little forensic evidence behind after decomposition.

Either way works for me.

Wow, EG. The more I read, the more I like you. I'm currently trying to get her down here with me for a little summer break away from the situation. Help her cut ties, that sort of thing.

Thanks, everyone, for the advice. It's been so hard for me to stand by and watch this, especially when both of us went through similar relationships around the same time a few years ago and I thought we'd both learned something and moved on. I'm irritated and frustrated and angry, and it saddens me that not all of my anger is towards him.

So for those of you that have been the person in the unhealthy relationship, what helped or hurt you most about your friends? Was it better for you to hear "I'm here for you" or "Here's what we should do" or "Lets eviscerate the bastard" (Thanks, EG)? Is it different in a BDSM relationship vs. a vanilla one? Does she need to hear the anger, or am I just making it worse by wanting to slam his head against a wall?

 

[adw721]

Thanks

Hello, Everyone. this is really hard for me to post. I am the one that she speaks of. I am having a very hard time with all of this and I really appreciate all of the supportive comments..I know it is really easy for some of the people to just post the negative comments.. I really hope that no one ever gets to where I am.. It is really not fun.. As I sit here and write this I really am having a hard time even typing.. I can admit that it is unhealthy and I can admit I need help.. I just feel so helpless to do anything.. I am so glad.. I have friends like her.. She is like my angel.. My best friend.. Again I am happy and thankful for the supporting comments. And dismayed at the ones that are kind of negative.. They Don't know me.. She does so she has everyright to post this....I don't have to explain myself to them.. I know better.. Thanks for the help everyone.. It is refreshing to know that there are people out there that do still care about others.. Pleasse keep posting it does help... Thanks,
Dawnof Poetry

 

[adw721]

Thanks..

Oops.. I think I misspelled some words. Sorry,
Dawnof Poetry

 

[Netzach]

Christ, I think I agree with cat on this one. I have no idea what the real scoop is. I can't possibly, it's not me.

I do know that my first experience with a man as my sub I had strong feelings for was indeed one of being manipulated and lied to. When I didn't want that in my life any longer I cut him off and it wasn't hard at all, it was very natural. It hurt, but it was very clear to me that this was not someone I could trust or wanted around me. People reach breaking points and eventually you just do what you have to do to survive. There really wasn't much quantifiably different between that relationship ending and it ending had it not been BDSM.

I will say that I needed a bit of time and reflection to get my confidence back. When you're the Dominant you have this kind of added burden of thinking "wait, wasn't I in control, how can the relationship go awry if I'm in control, I must not be good at this at all." So it's important to dust off a bit, and it's kind of shitty to have your orientation questioned by other people based on what you know went sour anyway. and you're left wondering about it yourself.That might be an issue at play here to some degree.

Until you're at the "fuck, yeah, I'm a Domme, he was an asshole" stage, you may not be in the best shape to Domme anyone though.

 

[Yasashii_Kaze]

I will say that I needed a bit of time and reflection to get my confidence back. When you're the Dominant you have this kind of added burden of thinking "wait, wasn't I in control, how can the relationship go awry if I'm in control, I must not be good at this at all." So it's important to dust off a bit, and it's kind of shitty to have your orientation questioned by other people based on what you know went sour anyway. and you're left wondering about it yourself.That might be an issue at play here to some degree.

Until you're at the "fuck, yeah, I'm a Domme, he was an asshole" stage, you may not be in the best shape to Domme anyone though.

Thank you, Netzach. This is why I wanted to bring this to the board. Because as much as I love her and want to help, I cannot see everything from her point of view. She needs to hear from people who can understand her confidence problems and other issues from that domme side of the relationship. Thanks so much for those words. They may not be easy for her to read, but they are what she needs to hear.

And no one listen to all her stuff about me being her angel. I'm just her friend, that's all.

 

[SweetErika]

I think ADW will probably find there are a lot of manipulative jackasses masquerading as male subs out there. The solution is to get rid of this particular one and watch out for it in the future (there are a lot of tell-tale signs, in my experience). Fortunately, there are a fair number of good male subs out there, too; they can just be hard to find.

You deserve way better, ADW, and you'll find that if you invest in yourself and look with a critical eye. Do your best to summon the strength to take care of yourself by getting rid of this guy, since it doesn't sound like he's good to/for you. Then take your time healing from this and don't believe it says anything about who you are as a person or Domme. It's a great lesson that most of us learn one way or another, not a reflection of who or how worthy we are...it's just part of relationships and life.

Take care of yourself and best wishes for fulfilling future relationships!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello, Everyone. this is really hard for me to post. I am the one that she speaks of. I am having a very hard time with all of this and I really appreciate all of the supportive comments..I know it is really easy for some of the people to just post the negative comments.. I really hope that no one ever gets to where I am.. It is really not fun.. As I sit here and write this I really am having a hard time even typing.. I can admit that it is unhealthy and I can admit I need help.. I just feel so helpless to do anything.. I am so glad.. I have friends like her.. She is like my angel.. My best friend.. Again I am happy and thankful for the supporting comments. And dismayed at the ones that are kind of negative.. They Don't know me.. She does so she has everyright to post this....I don't have to explain myself to them.. I know better.. Thanks for the help everyone.. It is refreshing to know that there are people out there that do still care about others.. Pleasse keep posting it does help... Thanks,
Dawnof Poetry

I would not say I posted negatively and without sensitivity, in fact I was very sensitive to some of the posts and feelings behind them, but we have had similar threads before which do not provide a whole lot of information from both sides and want us to take sides, usually with the one posting...I still see this thread as feeling like that where we are asked to champion one person and put down another. While I can appreciate all the things Netzach and you say, as Netzach says, at some point she had to do something about it and did.

Regardless of whether it is a D/s relationship or mainstream, it takes two to make it work and two to let it go wrong. If he is being a dick and you don't like it, it is something you have to deal with in a way you find acceptable, not ask people to feel sorry for you and pat you on the head while you still continue to remain in the relationship and complain he is not nice to you. Not insensitive, just simple relationship mechanics. As Netzach also pointed out, if you are not at that stage as yet, it might not be a good time to be Domming anyone, least of all someone you feel does not respect you, does not act submissive toward you, is not making you feel happy...to continue will only undermine your confidence further and keep you in a relationship that from your own words does not look like improving. It is never easy, but once done it frees you and feels a lot better than suffering.

Catalina

 

[BiBunny]

I think ADW will probably find there are a lot of manipulative jackasses masquerading as male subs out there.

Yep. Females, too. This is one reason I like to be a bitch upfront. It usually weeds out the morons.

On the other hand, if you truly feel this guy is manipulating you, then you're definitely not the dominant party anymore. I know "straighten the fuck up or get the fuck out" is a hard ultimatum to stick to, but regardless of the outcome, you'll have more respect for yourself if you do it.

Took me a long time to realize it, but if I won't take bullshit off strangers on the Internet, there's no point in me taking bullshit off the people I'm fucking, either.

 

[unfoundiamond]

I have a idea for your friend.... or anyone in that situation...

REPLACE HIM

And all that lovey shit aside, don't be afraid to take new applications, for lack of a better term,

I recently had a run in with a total jerk, who manipulated me from the bottom, and it can be very easy to get attatched to farmiliarity in a time of chrisis, you have to remember the next one can be even better than the last.

I am using this advice for myself, and its keeping me positive.

PS* I once had a dog that tried to tell me how to Top, and that taught me to be firm in my orders and expectations... I think its best viewed as the removal of one training wheel on your Domme-ly bicycle...

Have a F*in blast... this should be something that makes you happy and fufilled... if it doesn't, why are ya doing it, "Friend"?