Man Enough?

sweetnpetite

Intellectual snob
Joined
Jan 10, 2003
Posts
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Future perfect: how to be a 'real' man again
Carol Midgley

WHO’D be one of you, eh chaps? Let’s be honest, your CV these days is hardly enviable. Outperformed by girls at school, emasculated by women at home and at work, shockingly dislocated from your emotions and the hapless joke figure in endless TV commercials and sitcoms whose message is that females rule and men are fools.

Well wise up, because apparently it’s time to say enough is enough; the ridicule of men must stop. The pendulum of power has swung too far into the female corner and you must stand up and assert your right to masculinity. Stop apologising for it, be comfortable with it, but while you’re at it try to embrace a few female traits such as compromise, communication and learning to multitask.

It is called M-ness and it is The Future of Men — at least according to one particular woman who has written a book with just this title. Marian Salzman, with her co- authors Ira Matathia and Ann O’Reilly, is the American trendspotter who coined the term “meterosexual” to describe a certain breed of straight, sensitive, modern men who see nothing wrong with exfoliating and going to see a weepy film. Now she has come up with another concept to which all males must apparently subscribe if they wish to reclaim “their space, their sense of worth and even themselves”.

Indeed, she believes the revolution is already under way and that this is the “dawning of the Age of M-ness”.

What’s that being shouted from the bar of the Ferret and Firkin? “What a load of bollocks”? Undeniably there will be plenty of men who will laugh into their pints at the very idea. But Salzman, an executive vice-president at the advertising agency J. Walter Thompson, has serious points to make about where men go from here. Society has changed for ever, she says, so males must adapt if they are to reassert themselves in a world increasingly defined and dominated by femininity.

It is not just men who are fed up with male-bashing. Research shows that women, too, want men to assert themselves as confident, vital, masculine partners. They want “real” men back. But because we will never return to 1950s patriarchy — the genie cannot be put back in the bottle, thank God — men must redefine masculinity to accommodate who they are today. They must find, says Salzman, their own personal version of manliness.

“What has happened to men over the past 30 or so years is that they have moved from defining the world . . . to having their world defined by women,” says Salzman, 45. “Men have been the butt of the joke for too long. TV is the snapshot of our everyday lives . . . there are men making jokes about men, women making jokes about men but not men making jokes about women because that would be politically incorrect.

“We used to worry about teenage girls losing their voice . . . but now I’m feeling very worried for 15-year-old boys. Where do they feel they fit in any more?” She believes the young working-class male is most demoralised in the new, female-orientated society, having, outside sport, few strong role models to admire.

Michael Buerk, the veteran BBC newsreader, echoes these sentiments in the current issue of the Radio Times. He asserts that life is now lived according to women’s rules, that traditional male traits of “reticence, stoicism and single-mindedness” have been marginalised, that men have been reduced to little more than “sperm donors”.

The TV programme Queer Eye for the Straight Guy emblemises the problem.

“It is basically saying that no straight man knows how to dress himself,” says Salzman. “So at the top you have women and the next most refined individual after that is a gay man — and at the bottom of the pecking order you have a straight man.

“What needs to happen is that the genders need to move closer together, not necessarily to be like each other but to respect each other . . . not be threatened by each other and achieve proper mutuality.”

M-ness (also known as my-ness) is defined thus: a masculinity that defines the best of traditional manliness (strength, honour, character) with positive traits traditionally associated with females (nurturance, communicativeness, co-operation). A lifestyle that emphasises higher-quality emotional and physical pleasures, male pleasures, that come from knowing oneself and one’s potential.

Confused? Well, according to Salzman, a classic example of M-ness man is Guy Ritchie. He is the alpha male tough guy who married an even tougher woman. But have his masculinity and identity been diminished by Madonna, arguably one of the biggest female icons in the world? No, says Salzman.

If anything they have been enhanced because Ritchie is so comfortable in his own skin. Here lies the essence of M-ness.

Ditto Bill Clinton, believe it or not, who scored M-ness points for apologising publicy for his infidelity (admitting you were wrong is a very feminine trait) and has not been threatened by taking a back seat to Hillary. See also the Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger, who, in marrying Maria Shriver, a famous Democrat, showed simultaneous respect for her beliefs and absolute confidence in his own. You could argue that Sir Paul McCartney demonstrates M-ness in his support for the career of his wife, Heather Mills. And might there not have been a touch of M-ness at the heart of Sir Denis Thatcher, whose sense of self was never compromised despite being married to the most macho female in living memory?

Salzman’s point is that you can have M-ness whether you are a happily married house-husband or a 45-year-old serial dater, a physician or a soccer coach. You must do whatever makes you happy, gives you self-respect and makes you feel whole while respecting the other gender’s right to the same. But you must be multidimensional. You must love your family, have male friends to whom you are not afraid to show affection, have one or two hobbies.

“We need to move to a place where each gender can co-exist mutually and happily,” says Salzman. “There is no society that we can learn from on this — we have never had that kind of equality.”

Ultimately men will learn that their future is not about control as it has been in the past, it is about co- operation.


Men - and women- are fed up that men are the butt of every joke

SO WHAT does the future hold for men?

read the rest of the article here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-7-1737856-7,00.html
 
So now women have stooped to telling men how they have to behave? Haven't you learned anything in the past 30 years?

You know what? I'll be the way I am, and fuck you very much.

Bollocks indeed.
 
Ditto, doc.

I notice it was an advertising person who came up with the concept of M-ness. I wonder what bill of goods they're selling us.
 
impressive said:
I made a quiche for you guys. ;)

Must be my eyes are going bad. I read this as "made a quickie" for you guys and was wondering why in the hell people were turning you down.

On teh other hand, my older brother makes a killer quiche with red peppers and such in that is out of this world, but to maintain the M-ness factor we called it "scrambled egg pie".
 
sweetnpetite said:
Future perfect: how to be a 'real' man again
Carol Midgley


...M-ness (also known as my-ness) is defined thus: a masculinity that defines the best of traditional manliness (strength, honour, character) with positive traits traditionally associated with females (nurturance, communicativeness, co-operation). A lifestyle that emphasises higher-quality emotional and physical pleasures, male pleasures, that come from knowing oneself and one’s potential...


...Ditto Bill Clinton, believe it or not, who scored M-ness points for apologising publicy for his infidelity (admitting you were wrong is a very feminine trait) and has not been threatened by taking a back seat to Hillary.

I wonder how many women she knows, if she believes admitting you were wrong, communicativeness, and co-operation are specific female traits.

Honestly, I noted what rgraham did; advertising executive, mostly talking out her ass, and, I might add, noting the man on BBC whom we clearly decided a few days ago had his head up his ass...

Let's face it, metrosexuality was enough of a curse.

Q_C
 
Hmmmmm, strange.
I think my wife might disagree with her. Then again she would probably accuse my wife of having been abused into not agreeing with her. (Much as one of my wifes co-workers claims my wife is being dominated because she refuses to sleep with either her or her husband.)

Hey I'm happy with the way I am. Yes I wear boots and cuss and even scratch upon occasion. I am also able to cook and hold a conversation about many subjects. I can hunt and fish, yet I can also sew. I know many men who are like me and yet not a single one seems to fit her stereotype of what she thinks men should be. Maybe it's time this saleswoman got out of her office and high priced house and met real people.

Cat
 
Last time I checked, the pendulum of power was still firmly rooted in between every man's legs. Always was. Always will be.
 
LadyJeanne said:
Last time I checked, the pendulum of power was still firmly rooted in between every man's legs. Always was. Always will be.

That's kindof what I was thinking.

Maybe not forever, but definitly for a while longer. :rose:
 
LadyJeanne said:
Last time I checked, the pendulum of power was still firmly rooted in between every man's legs. Always was. Always will be.

If you were male, you'd feel very differently.

Especially on a date.

:rolleyes:

Q_C
 
Quiet_Cool said:
If you were male, you'd feel very differently.

Especially on a date.

:rolleyes:

Q_C

Actually, I think I agree with you. (if I understand correctly)

If I say to a man, "I'll fuck you if..." There's a decent chance "if" will happen. But if a man were to tell me, "I'll fuck you if..." I would probably knee him just past that so called "seat of power".

There are two things that I myself have observed or wondered about. One, I've noticed that any commercial featuring a man and a woman has the man being an ineffecient boob. The other thing I've wondered about is why any straight man would allow a gay man to dress him in a manner such that he would be more appealing to gay men. :confused:

Jenny
 
JRaven said:
If I say to a man, "I'll fuck you if..." There's a decent chance "if" will happen. But if a man were to tell me, "I'll fuck you if..." I would probably knee him just past that so called "seat of power".

I'll fuck you if...you give me diamonds.
I'll fuck you if...you treat me as an equal.
I'll fuck you if...you hire based on merit.
I'll fuck you if...you support me in my bid for a seat on the board.
I'll fuck you if...you donate to my Senate campaign.
I'll fuck you if...you pay me what I'm worth.
I'll fuck you if...you pay me...

Do we have this kind of power?
 
LadyJeanne said:
I'll fuck you if...you give me diamonds.
I'll fuck you if...you treat me as an equal.
I'll fuck you if...you hire based on merit.
I'll fuck you if...you support me in my bid for a seat on the board.
I'll fuck you if...you donate to my Senate campaign.
I'll fuck you if...you pay me what I'm worth.
I'll fuck you if...you pay me...

Do we have this kind of power?

No, men are too impatient. They wouldn't wait till the if. And would complain about any ifs given as "cockblocking".
 
sweetnpetite said:
Well wise up, because apparently it’s time to say enough is enough; the ridicule of men must stop. The pendulum of power has swung too far into the female corner and you must stand up and assert your right to masculinity. Stop apologising for it, be comfortable with it, but while you’re at it try to embrace a few female traits such as compromise, communication and learning to multitask.

It is called M-ness and it is The Future of Men — at least according to one particular woman who has written a book with just this title. Marian Salzman, with her co- authors Ira Matathia and Ann O’Reilly, is the American trendspotter who coined the term “meterosexual” to describe a certain breed of straight, sensitive, modern men who see nothing wrong with exfoliating and going to see a weepy film. Now she has come up with another concept to which all males must apparently subscribe if they wish to reclaim “their space, their sense of worth and even themselves”.

Indeed, she believes the revolution is already under way and that this is the “dawning of the Age of M-ness”.

Fuck her and fuck her book. Next year when I go to the rodeo with my hot-ass wife wearing her tightest Wranglers, I'm going to have a copy of this bitch's book with me so I can throw it in the bullpen and let them shit and piss all over it. Of course the reality of this is that I'm going to forget all about this subject before my head hits the pillow tonight, and only next year when I'm at the rodeo checking out the stock will I remember that I was supposed to go waste some money on that bitch's book so I could let the bulls shit and piss all over it. Then I'll just be happy I didn't waste the money.

O fuck it. I'm not even going to kid myself into thinking that I'll remember this bitch's book after tonight.

:cool:
 
LadyJeanne said:
I'll fuck you if...you give me diamonds.
I'll fuck you if...you treat me as an equal.
I'll fuck you if...you hire based on merit.
I'll fuck you if...you support me in my bid for a seat on the board.
I'll fuck you if...you donate to my Senate campaign.
I'll fuck you if...you pay me what I'm worth.
I'll fuck you if...you pay me...

Do we have this kind of power?

We've been trading too many non-agreeing posts.

Consider this one (the only one that actually belongs there):

"I'll fuck you if you want to fuck me."

Simply put: You can't trade sex for respect.

Q_C
 
LadyJeanne said:
I'll fuck you if...you give me diamonds.
I'll fuck you if...you treat me as an equal.
I'll fuck you if...you hire based on merit.
I'll fuck you if...you support me in my bid for a seat on the board.
I'll fuck you if...you donate to my Senate campaign.
I'll fuck you if...you pay me what I'm worth.
I'll fuck you if...you pay me...

Do we have this kind of power?
Sometimes...

But you know, it's not a real victory to excersize that power. All of those except the first and the last, should be yours anyway. Possibly even the first, since I believe that can be a part of something that does not equal a quest for just ass.
 
Quiet_Cool said:
We've been trading too many non-agreeing posts.

Consider this one (the only one that actually belongs there):

"I'll fuck you if you want to fuck me."

Simply put: You can't trade sex for respect.

Q_C

:rose:

We agree totally this time, my friend! That's exactly my point. You can't trade sex for respect, and the power women might have to have sex (or date) is not the kind of power that should be used to try and get anything other than an orgasm.
 
Liar said:
Sometimes...

But you know, it's not a real victory to excersize that power. All of those except the first and the last, should be yours anyway. Possibly even the first, since I believe that can be a part of something that does not equal a quest for just ass.

It's a very limited power - limited to choosing your sex partner, and limited to that person.

My original point was that the "pendulum of power" has not swung too far towards women, as the article states. Men still have all the power they ever had. QC indicated that I'd feel differently about that if I were a man on a date, and JRAven agreed, saying she'd likely get laid if she wanted to, but a guy would not have that power with her...the "I'll fuck you if" part. The ability to get a guy hard and wanting sex with you is hardly an example of the "pendulum of power" having swung in favor of women.
 
If I get even the tiniest intimation that such an intimate act is part of a business transaction or power play, I'm outta there.

Selfish like that.
 
sweetnpetite said:
Future perfect: how to be a 'real' man again
Carol Midgley

WHO’D be one of you, eh chaps? Let’s be honest, your CV these days is hardly enviable. Outperformed by girls at school, emasculated by women at home and at work, shockingly dislocated from your emotions and the hapless joke figure in endless TV commercials and sitcoms whose message is that females rule and men are fools.

Well wise up, because apparently it’s time to say enough is enough; the ridicule of men must stop. The pendulum of power has swung too far into the female corner and you must stand up and assert your right to masculinity. Stop apologising for it, be comfortable with it, but while you’re at it try to embrace a few female traits such as compromise, communication and learning to multitask.

It is called M-ness and it is The Future of Men — at least according to one particular woman who has written a book with just this title. Marian Salzman, with her co- authors Ira Matathia and Ann O’Reilly, is the American trendspotter who coined the term “meterosexual” to describe a certain breed of straight, sensitive, modern men who see nothing wrong with exfoliating and going to see a weepy film. Now she has come up with another concept to which all males must apparently subscribe if they wish to reclaim “their space, their sense of worth and even themselves”.

Indeed, she believes the revolution is already under way and that this is the “dawning of the Age of M-ness”.

What’s that being shouted from the bar of the Ferret and Firkin? “What a load of bollocks”? Undeniably there will be plenty of men who will laugh into their pints at the very idea. But Salzman, an executive vice-president at the advertising agency J. Walter Thompson, has serious points to make about where men go from here. Society has changed for ever, she says, so males must adapt if they are to reassert themselves in a world increasingly defined and dominated by femininity.

It is not just men who are fed up with male-bashing. Research shows that women, too, want men to assert themselves as confident, vital, masculine partners. They want “real” men back. But because we will never return to 1950s patriarchy — the genie cannot be put back in the bottle, thank God — men must redefine masculinity to accommodate who they are today. They must find, says Salzman, their own personal version of manliness.

“What has happened to men over the past 30 or so years is that they have moved from defining the world . . . to having their world defined by women,” says Salzman, 45. “Men have been the butt of the joke for too long. TV is the snapshot of our everyday lives . . . there are men making jokes about men, women making jokes about men but not men making jokes about women because that would be politically incorrect.

“We used to worry about teenage girls losing their voice . . . but now I’m feeling very worried for 15-year-old boys. Where do they feel they fit in any more?” She believes the young working-class male is most demoralised in the new, female-orientated society, having, outside sport, few strong role models to admire.
[/url]

LOL what a beautiful and satirical read. Thanks SnP. LOL
 
rgraham666 said:
If I get even the tiniest intimation that such an intimate act is part of a business transaction or power play, I'm outta there.

Selfish like that.

ALL sex is a power dynamic, RG, wherever it comes from. ;)
 
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