Making the Incredible Credible
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TheEarl
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Sunnie said:
Depends on the unbelievable situation. A few of my works involve recreational impossibilities and I tend to approach them as if I was just writing a normal plausible story, with the characters reacting to the impossibilities with disbelief or acceptance, depending on their characterisation.
Give me more details and I might be more helpful.
The Earl
Colleen Thomas
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In general, you can et up th eimpossible with the merely plausible. No one noticeses the imposibilities in Comic books because you open them expecting the fantastic. You are set up to buy radioactive spider bites or alien radiations giving superpowers.
In fantasy, the more impossible the better. Spider gods and giant snakes, monsters of all description are made believeable by the setting.
Setting your reader up for the impossible to be possible is as much a matter of grooming their expectations as it is writing a believeable world.
In fantasy, the more impossible the better. Spider gods and giant snakes, monsters of all description are made believeable by the setting.
Setting your reader up for the impossible to be possible is as much a matter of grooming their expectations as it is writing a believeable world.
BlackShanglan
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I agree with Colly. Sometimes trying to make things believable undercuts its own goals. That is, if you write an intensely "real" world, people expect realistic things to happen in it. Unless you're really fascinated by how ordinary, grittily realistic people deal with the extraordinary - something that Stephen King, for example, seems to enjoy in many of his novels - then perhaps your best bet is simply to make a world in which unusual things happen. You don't need to (and probably shouldn't) try to explain why that world is different. Just make sure that you know the rules and that there is some consistency to what can and can't happen.
My personal award for graceful introduction of the amazingly improbable goes to Virginia Woolf for her wonderful novel Orlando. The central character lives for four hundred years, never ages past about 30, and changes gender partway through the novel. Some of his servants also enjoy this wonderful longevity. And Woolf's answer about how this happens is a playful wink and a smile as she bounds off with Orlando to another dashing and delightful adventure. It's utterly charming. She declines even to notice that the question might be asked, being far too busy chronicling the life of the remarkable central character and keeping up a thoroughly engaging side narrative of herself in the character of his biographer. Well worth a read; well worth several.
I love her approach. I am, of course, a feeble, bland, and altogether anemic shadow in the light of her brilliance, but when I did need to include the exceedingly improbable in one of my stories, I took her route. The less explanation, the better.
Shanglan
My personal award for graceful introduction of the amazingly improbable goes to Virginia Woolf for her wonderful novel Orlando. The central character lives for four hundred years, never ages past about 30, and changes gender partway through the novel. Some of his servants also enjoy this wonderful longevity. And Woolf's answer about how this happens is a playful wink and a smile as she bounds off with Orlando to another dashing and delightful adventure. It's utterly charming. She declines even to notice that the question might be asked, being far too busy chronicling the life of the remarkable central character and keeping up a thoroughly engaging side narrative of herself in the character of his biographer. Well worth a read; well worth several.
I love her approach. I am, of course, a feeble, bland, and altogether anemic shadow in the light of her brilliance, but when I did need to include the exceedingly improbable in one of my stories, I took her route. The less explanation, the better.
Shanglan
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Just set it in an alternate universe. Then, everything's possible. 
TheEarl
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IMHO: Anything's credible if you understand your characters. If they react realistically to the recreational impossibility then it will ring true to your readers. If they do cardboard cut-out impressions, then the whole artifice will come tumbling down.
The Earl
The Earl
Quiet_Cool
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Sunnie said:
You need a universal adapter. I'll e-mail you mine...
Q_C
dr_mabeuse
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Detail and imagination.
If you say that the bank building just got up and walked away, it won't work so well. But if you describe the grinding, splintering sound it made, the windows all shattering, and the pigeons flapping away in fear, etc. you can make it at least seem realistic.
If you say that the bank building just got up and walked away, it won't work so well. But if you describe the grinding, splintering sound it made, the windows all shattering, and the pigeons flapping away in fear, etc. you can make it at least seem realistic.
Sunnie
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Thanks everybody...
For those who asked for details:
I hate doing this because I'm frantically insecure about my own ideas, but I'll push thru it.
The story goes as follows: Main character (1st person POV) is a famously published erotic author (self-serving fantasy
) and her newest book is causing a stir among the religious right in her hometown, causing the city council (by the way, is it council or counsel?) to request that the mayor ban the book from sale in the town -- specifically the college campus. They also want a formal letter of apology from the author.
Author and Mayor run into each other at a town event, at which Mayor accosts Author and relays the message of the city council before it becomes public knowledge. Author is outraged, and sardonically says, "Tell you what -- you let me fuck your daughter, I'll release the letter and pull the book from stores in town." To which the mayor reluctantly agrees.
There's your unbelievable situation. Mayor agrees to let female author fuck his daughter in exchange for favor with city council. How do I get that to a point where the reader isn't going, "Yeah, right!"
(Or maybe not so unbelievable after all -- politicians do some fucked up things, right? )
For those who asked for details:
I hate doing this because I'm frantically insecure about my own ideas, but I'll push thru it.
The story goes as follows: Main character (1st person POV) is a famously published erotic author (self-serving fantasy
) and her newest book is causing a stir among the religious right in her hometown, causing the city council (by the way, is it council or counsel?) to request that the mayor ban the book from sale in the town -- specifically the college campus. They also want a formal letter of apology from the author. Author and Mayor run into each other at a town event, at which Mayor accosts Author and relays the message of the city council before it becomes public knowledge. Author is outraged, and sardonically says, "Tell you what -- you let me fuck your daughter, I'll release the letter and pull the book from stores in town." To which the mayor reluctantly agrees.
There's your unbelievable situation. Mayor agrees to let female author fuck his daughter in exchange for favor with city council. How do I get that to a point where the reader isn't going, "Yeah, right!"
(Or maybe not so unbelievable after all -- politicians do some fucked up things, right?
)
elsol
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What's incredible about that?
Of course, the daughter just LOVES the author and has collection of the book... and so does the Mayor's wife who is exceedingly envious woman so she drugs her own child and takes her place as the virginal (*cough*cough*) sacrifice to the lust of said author.
THAT stretches the bounds of credibility.
Sincerely,
ElSol
Of course, the daughter just LOVES the author and has collection of the book... and so does the Mayor's wife who is exceedingly envious woman so she drugs her own child and takes her place as the virginal (*cough*cough*) sacrifice to the lust of said author.
THAT stretches the bounds of credibility.
Sincerely,
ElSol
Sabledrake
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If said Mayor honestly believes and supports the decision of the council, then it I can see how it'd seem far-fetched. If, however, the Mayor is a sleazy two-faced self-serving politician desperate to keep the goodwill of everyone, why the heck not?
-- Sabledrake
-- Sabledrake
dr_mabeuse
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So it's really a problem of believable motivation. What would motivate an author to make such an outrageous demand, what would motivate a father to whore his daughter out, and what would motivate a daughter to obey her father in this situation?
I can't believe that demanding a book be banned in one town and a request for a letter of apology is that great a burden. Obviously the writer is just jerking the mayor around to get at his daughter.
What sort of clout do these bluebloods have over the mayor anyhow? Do they have the ability to vote him out of office if he doesn't do as they say? In that case, he just has to love his job more than he loves his daughter.
But what sort of control does he have over his daughter anyhow? Can a father really make his daughter screw some guy just because he wants her to?
I would have done it differently, I think. I would have had author uncover the fact that the Mayor's daughter isn't really his, a fact that the Mayor himself knows but the daughter doesn't, and then threaten to expose the fact unless he gets his way with the daughter. You've still got the problem of getting the daughter to comply, but no doubt the mayor could cook up some story about how his survival depends on her seducing the writer.
People wanting a book banned from a town and a letter of apology just don't seem to have enough moral force to compel your chars to do the things you want to happen.
I can't believe that demanding a book be banned in one town and a request for a letter of apology is that great a burden. Obviously the writer is just jerking the mayor around to get at his daughter.
What sort of clout do these bluebloods have over the mayor anyhow? Do they have the ability to vote him out of office if he doesn't do as they say? In that case, he just has to love his job more than he loves his daughter.
But what sort of control does he have over his daughter anyhow? Can a father really make his daughter screw some guy just because he wants her to?
I would have done it differently, I think. I would have had author uncover the fact that the Mayor's daughter isn't really his, a fact that the Mayor himself knows but the daughter doesn't, and then threaten to expose the fact unless he gets his way with the daughter. You've still got the problem of getting the daughter to comply, but no doubt the mayor could cook up some story about how his survival depends on her seducing the writer.
People wanting a book banned from a town and a letter of apology just don't seem to have enough moral force to compel your chars to do the things you want to happen.
gauchecritic
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Making that scenario believable is probably a lot easier than you think.
One way to go is making the story about how much of an unpricipled blackguard the mayor is.
The original request can be flip aimed at angering the mayor. The twist can be that the mayor will readily agree but now needs to convince not only the daughter to do the deal but also the author.
The author being female has two things going for it (in the mayor's mind) 1. some girl on girl action that he might even be able to get a look at. 2.It's a girl so doesn't actually count in the marriage stakes if (promised future) husband is curious about previous partners.
One way to go is making the story about how much of an unpricipled blackguard the mayor is.
The original request can be flip aimed at angering the mayor. The twist can be that the mayor will readily agree but now needs to convince not only the daughter to do the deal but also the author.
The author being female has two things going for it (in the mayor's mind) 1. some girl on girl action that he might even be able to get a look at. 2.It's a girl so doesn't actually count in the marriage stakes if (promised future) husband is curious about previous partners.
Colleen Thomas
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Sunnie said:Thanks everybody...
For those who asked for details:
I hate doing this because I'm frantically insecure about my own ideas, but I'll push thru it.
The story goes as follows: Main character (1st person POV) is a famously published erotic author (self-serving fantasy
Author and Mayor run into each other at a town event, at which Mayor accosts Author and relays the message of the city council before it becomes public knowledge. Author is outraged, and sardonically says, "Tell you what -- you let me fuck your daughter, I'll release the letter and pull the book from stores in town." To which the mayor reluctantly agrees.
There's your unbelievable situation. Mayor agrees to let female author fuck his daughter in exchange for favor with city council. How do I get that to a point where the reader isn't going, "Yeah, right!"
(Or maybe not so unbelievable after all -- politicians do some fucked up things, right?
What you need to do then, is focus on the personaity of the mayor and his motivations. to begin with, set the story in the deep south or texas, where religious fundamentalism and politics are the most intertwined. Then give the mayor some reason. One would be to portray him as a bill Clintonesque politican with aspirations for much higher office. Perhaps make him an ex-state senator who is eyeing the next years gubenatorial election and just ran for mayor to keep his nam ein the papers until the election?
Next, broaden the pressure. Don't have the city council upset, have the state assembly in pandamonium over it. Perhaps the work has satirical reference to specific state politicians as well as an erotic bent? Make it a real political hot potatoe and insted of the city council demanding him make it go away, have it be the head of the state's Republicans. Without their support he has virtually no chance of getting the nod for the party's candidaicy for govenor and without their funds no shot at all of advancing his career. Give it a little national flavor too, the kind of thing where banning is the only option the party is giving him, but the author is threatening an ACLU challenge to the ban if he puts it in place, thus doing anything but making it go away.
Within that frame work, if you have painted him as a political animal and survivor, it becomes less unbeliveable. In the 1700's and 1800's politicans were accused in print of pimping out their wives to political bosses in return for support. Given the down and dirty's of today's system and the huge amounts of money involved, it's not that big a jump.
TheEarl
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It's all in the character of the mayor and more importantly, in what situation he finds himself. You could make him mildly heroic by putting him between a rock and a hard place if you liked.
Make it so that his wife is spending thousands, his children are in private schools and he's living a life outside his means. He's basically keeping his finances together on the basis of his position as mayor and these Godbotherers have the ability to make him lose it. He'll lose the free house, the salary, the car, the priveleges and will end up having to tell his wife that he's broke and he knows that she'll leave him if he does. It's a straight choice, wreck his life and the lives of his entire family or somehow try and convince his daughter to sleep with this guy.
Or you could go linear and just make the mayor a bastard, but that's harder to pull off.
The Earl
Make it so that his wife is spending thousands, his children are in private schools and he's living a life outside his means. He's basically keeping his finances together on the basis of his position as mayor and these Godbotherers have the ability to make him lose it. He'll lose the free house, the salary, the car, the priveleges and will end up having to tell his wife that he's broke and he knows that she'll leave him if he does. It's a straight choice, wreck his life and the lives of his entire family or somehow try and convince his daughter to sleep with this guy.
Or you could go linear and just make the mayor a bastard, but that's harder to pull off.
The Earl
