Making sense as an author - plot, coherence, logic - aka Verisimilitude

[Andreas_Kreuz]

The thread self-editing-for-authors collects aspects and techniques to check when you edit your stories. However, as an occasional editor, I have noticed that fine-grained editing (sentences, spelling, punctuation) is sometimes too early, because the coarse grained architecture was broken.
I have edited stories that were written well (Good language, natural dialogues, precise visceral descriptions, etc.) but where the fundamental structure just did not align.
I believe before that, as authors, we need to get the story architecture right first. With this, I mean that before detailed editing, we need to check some coarse-grained fundamentals like:

- A narrative arc that is coherent and has no gaps.
- Verisimilitude - requiring that even a completely fantastical world or scenario has to follow inherent rules and logic.
- Plausibility - is the plot and the behaviours of the characters plausible and doesn't jump.
- Closure - does the story lead somewhere?

What further aspects do you expect a story to follow, and how do you check for them?
Maybe we can compile a similar list here.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

These are all elements of "writing well." I agree with all of them, but an author should also be a storyteller. There should be an interesting story, because all of these undoubtedly useful elements can't turn a dull story into an interesting one. The story should have a plot, interesting characters, maybe even some bits of wisdom intertwined in it; it should have a culmination and resolution.

And let's not forget pacing. So many authors fuck that one up.

 

[AlexisIsMyFav]

How to pace the story well?

 

[dirk2024]

And let's not forget pacing. So many authors fuck that one up.

I see this pop up every once in a while, but nothing about how to actually make that happen.

 

[iwatchus]

I see this pop up every once in a while, but nothing about how to actually make that happen.

Brandon Sanderson talks about this some in his SF&F lectures, but he is focused on longer works not short stories. (Roughly paraphrasing, chart out action points before doing your first major rewrite and add/remove to achieve pace you want.) I forget which lecture this was in, but if you are curious, the whole set if about 15 hours on youtube, starting here

 

[MythicMind]

When editing, I look at four levels:

1) Writing mechanics: spelling, grammar, tense, punctuation, and pov.
2) Readability: descriptive quality, sentence and paragraph structure, narration/dialogue flow.
3) Content: setting, character, scenario. This is where I look at goals, stakes, conflicts, dialogue, plausibility, and verisimilitude.
4) Story structure: pacing, flow/scene progression, tone, pinches, buildup, climax, and payoff.

 

[kreemi_pi]

The thread self-editing-for-authors collects aspects and techniques to check when you edit your stories. However, as an occasional editor, I have noticed that fine-grained editing (sentences, spelling, punctuation) is sometimes too early, because the coarse grained architecture was broken.
I have edited stories that were written well (Good language, natural dialogues, precise visceral descriptions, etc.) but where the fundamental structure just did not align.
I believe before that, as authors, we need to get the story architecture right first. With this, I mean that before detailed editing, we need to check some coarse-grained fundamentals like:

- A narrative arc that is coherent and has no gaps.
- Verisimilitude - requiring that even a completely fantastical world or scenario has to follow inherent rules and logic.
- Plausibility - is the plot and the behaviours of the characters plausible and doesn't jump.
- Closure - does the story lead somewhere?

What further aspects do you expect a story to follow, and how do you check for them?
Maybe we can compile a similar list here.

Wait, what???

I thought we just needed hot fuck scenes

 

[kreemi_pi]

I see this pop up every once in a while, but nothing about how to actually make that happen.

I see you pop up once in awhile Dirk

 

[kreemi_pi]

And yeah i thought verisimilitude meant hot fuck scenes

 

[MythicMind]

I see this pop up every once in a while, but nothing about how to actually make that happen.

Pace describes the speed between action transitions or story beats. To be reductionistic, if transitions/beats feel too abrupt then pacing is too fast, whereas if the story feels like it is dragging, then it's too slow. The pace can also reflect the context; something like a high tension car chase should have a fast pace, whereas a walk along the beach could be a little slow.

If a story is longer, like 8k or more words, then it's a good idea to vary the pace (sort of like sex, if you think about it). And just like with sex, there are no hard "how to" rules—it is something you adjust to serve story goals. It's one of those "you know it when you see it" things.

 

[dirk2024]

I see you pop up once in awhile Dirk

It depends on how I'm touched.

 

[dirk2024]

Brandon Sanderson talks about this some in his SF&F lectures, but he is focused on longer works not short stories. (Roughly paraphrasing, chart out action points before doing your first major rewrite and add/remove to achieve pace you want.) I forget which lecture this was in, but if you are curious, the whole set if about 15 hours on youtube, starting here

Pace describes the speed between action transitions or story beats. To be reductionistic, if transitions/beats feel too abrupt then pacing is too fast, whereas if the story feels like it is dragging, then it's too slow. The pace can also reflect the context; something like a high tension car chase should have a fast pace, whereas a walk along the beach could be a little slow.

If a story is longer, like 8k or more words, then it's a good idea to vary the pace (sort of like sex, if you think about it). And just like with sex, there are no hard "how to" rules—it is something you adjust to serve story goals. It's one of those "you know it when you see it" things.

Thank you both!

 

[DeMont]

The thread self-editing-for-authors collects aspects and techniques to check when you edit your stories. However, as an occasional editor, I have noticed that fine-grained editing (sentences, spelling, punctuation) is sometimes too early, because the coarse grained architecture was broken.
I have edited stories that were written well (Good language, natural dialogues, precise visceral descriptions, etc.) but where the fundamental structure just did not align.
I believe before that, as authors, we need to get the story architecture right first. With this, I mean that before detailed editing, we need to check some coarse-grained fundamentals like:

- A narrative arc that is coherent and has no gaps.
- Verisimilitude - requiring that even a completely fantastical world or scenario has to follow inherent rules and logic.
- Plausibility - is the plot and the behaviours of the characters plausible and doesn't jump.
- Closure - does the story lead somewhere?

What further aspects do you expect a story to follow, and how do you check for them?
Maybe we can compile a similar list here.

@Andreas_Kreuz,
Good evening my dear colleague. I recently presented a "set of models on how I write, particularly longer pieces (novellas of novels but which can also be adapted to short stories just as well. It is a plan that I first learned years ago from an English Literature professor and mentor and have developed over time to become my model for practical planning.



Basically you choose how you want the story to develop. select the model (1,2 or 3 L to R) Put your basic elements in the "rising action" boxes and then follow that plan through. As you can see there are sections to notate characters, settings, theme etc.

I have found this to be the most useful in keep a story "on track".
Deepest respects,
D.

 

[Andreas_Kreuz]

Another aspect that's important to me is Chekhov gun. Chekhov said, if you hang a gun on a wall in one scene, this gun should be shot at some stage. It relates to show-dont-tell; a prop or aspect you use for showing should have relevance.
If you mention a buttoned blouse, then those buttons must be undone in due time.

 

[Andreas_Kreuz]

Basically you choose how you want the story to develop. select the model (1,2 or 3 L to R) Put your basic elements in the "rising action" boxes and then follow that plan through.

I like that. It visualizes where a certain part should go. It makes it visceral how to build up tension. So A would be slow burn, while B a reflective story?

 

[DeMont]

Another aspect that's important to me is Chekhov gun. Chekhov said, if you hang a gun on a wall in one scene, this gun should be shot at some stage. It relates to show-dont-tell; a prop or aspect you use for showing should have relevance.
If you mention a buttoned blouse, then those buttons must be undone in due time.

@Andreas_Kreuz,
Indeed so my dear colleague but there are a variety of methods one can use for "undoing" buttons, don't you think? Also, somewhere along the story line the buttons do not necessarily have to be undone as a separate and literal action. For example;

"Adam twitched one button of her blouse undone, then a second, she spread her arms against the wall and her eyelids flickered closed as he continued."
Or,
"Adam turned her about and pushed her against the wall, clutching her wrists he spread her arms along the wall's surface to either side. His hands slid around her and he tore apart her blouse, buttons flew everywhere"
Or,
Adam reached underneath her now that she was on hands and knees and pulled her bra cups aside, her blouse having already been undone."

Different approaches to the same objective, useful variations, no?
Respectfully,
D.

 

[Andreas_Kreuz]

same objective, useful variations

The variations of undoing buttons are endless fortunately. I prefer to rip them.

 

[Andreas_Kreuz]

Also, the inverse of Chekhov's gun is helpful. If you shoot a gun, it makes sense to mention the gun earlier on so that the reader can think, "Ah, yes, that gun."

Or if you include anal, it might make sense to mention lube earlier on. Lube has a nice subtext if mentioned cleverly.

 

[TheLobster]

If you mention a buttoned blouse, then those buttons must be undone in due time.

That's silly. Not every detail you mention is a narrative deposit to be withdrawn later. Sometimes, it simply matters in the moment.

You mention the buttoned blouse because of how many buttons, if any, are left undone. It lets you portray the character as either detail-oriented, maybe even stuck up, or fun-loving and carefree.

 

[DeMont]

That's silly. Not every detail you mention is a narrative deposit to be withdrawn later. Sometimes, it simply matters in the moment.

You mention the buttoned blouse because of how many buttons, if any, are left undone. It lets you portray the character as either detail-oriented, maybe even stuck up, or fun-loving and carefree.

@TheLobster,
It is often said, "The devil is in the details", details which can derail or deter readers from scenes you want to have dramatic and energetic. The nature of the scene, I think, determines just how you present the details. While "undoing buttons" slowly (by the blouse wearing character can indicate a subtle playfulness in the scene the "tearing apart" or (alt character) ripping apart of buttons can help establish the nature of the scene and the context of what follows.

Either way buttons, in my view, can be used to great effect as long as they are a minor mention not a prolonged distraction form the main event/s.
Deepest respects,
D.