Major Item

[R. Richard]

I realize that Literotica is a porn site. However, there is a major item ongoing that harks back to the days of the American evolution. Let me present a brief analysis of said major item.

1) A man named Cliven Bundy has been grazing cattle on public land for basically all of his life. In the process of grazing said cattle, Mr. Bundy has created what's known in law as a prescriptive easement. (I formerly held a California real estate license and I know that law.) Briefly stated, Mr, Bundy has a legal right to graze his cattle on said land.

2) The government claims that the grazing of cattle on said lands negatively impacts a desert tortoise. Said grazing has been going on for more than 140 years. The desert tortoises are still there and so are the cattle.

3) The government sent in armed goons to deny American citizens the right to use public roads'

3) The government's armed goons used helicopters to run cattle to death and separate mother cattle from their calves. Mistreatment of animals is against the law.

4) The government's armed goons seized privately owned cattle and drove same, with a bill of sale. The normal penalty for such action is hanging. Even if the police become involved, long prison sentences are the norm.

5) The government goons were then opposed by armed citizens. The United States was formed by armed 'citizens' opposing a duly constituted government. (The 'citizens' weren't actually citizens of the United States, since the country hadn't actually been formed, at that time.) The armed citizens won, the government lost. The Bundy confrontation was, in it's own way, on the same kind of level as the American revolution. Yet, the medial overlooks the fact.

Why did the confrontation happen?
"The Bureau of Land Management, whose director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations.

Deleted from BLM.gov but reposted for posterity by the Free Republic, the BLM document entitled “Cattle Trespass Impacts” directly states that Bundy’s cattle “impacts” solar development, more specifically the construction of “utility-scale solar power generation facilities” on “public lands.”

“Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle,” the document states.

Said solar power installations are scheduled to be done by a Chinese company. Our government breaks laws and harasses American citizens to facilitate a private economic development by foreigners.

Why is there no outcry from the vast majority of American citizens? The legal rights that are being trampled are YOUR RIGHTS!

 

[lovecraft68]

and this is a surprise in Fuhrer Obama's USA why?

I just bought a thousand rounds for my AK from a friend.

Maybe I should see if he has anymore for when the Militia marches down the street.

Good for the New Yorkers who won't comply with the rule of letting the State know about all your weapons. Why make it easy for them to know who to go after first?

what a disgrace this nation has become and even more disgraceful this thread will become littered with people who think this piece of terrorist crap is a decent president

 

[SteelPoint]

Quite funny, from this side of the Atlantic, to watch you Yanks cowering inside your gated communities, ready to pick off those of your fellow countrymen who couldn't afford the same calibre guns.

Perhaps one day the idea will dawn that a gunnocracy is maybe not the ideal way for a civilised society to rule itself.

I doubt it, though. If there's one special interest group over there that seems capable of even greater electoral pressure than the Zionists (which is saying something) it would have to be the redneck, intolerant gun toters.

 

[alt68]

and this is a surprise in Fuhrer Obama's USA why? .... what a disgrace this nation has become and even more disgraceful this thread will become littered with people who think this piece of terrorist crap is a decent president

LC is the conservative answer to H. L. Mencken. He never pushes a verb against a noun except to blow up something. (Wish I had that kind of talent.)

Lest there be any doubt, I do agree with the OP and LC, especially LC's three minute news thing. That is the best three minutes of news ever.

 

[R. Richard]

Quite funny, from this side of the Atlantic, to watch you Yanks cowering inside your gated communities, ready to pick off those of your fellow countrymen who couldn't afford the same calibre guns.

Given that your fellow countrymen hired Hessian mercenaries to try to pick off those who disagreed with the policies of King George, I wonder at your amusement.

Perhaps one day the idea will dawn that a gunnocracy is maybe not the ideal way for a civilised society to rule itself.

No, rule of law is obviously the way to go. However, the law was really on the side of the cattle rancher. Yes, a Judge did decide that the federal government didn't have to follow the law, but that's even more obviously not the way for a civilized society to rule itself.

I doubt it, though. If there's one special interest group over there that seems capable of even greater electoral pressure than the Zionists (which is saying something) it would have to be the redneck, intolerant gun toters.

Yes, our gun toting forefathers exerted enough pressure that German Georgie withdrew his Hessians and left us to rule ourselves. Similarly, the 'Zionists' exerted enough pressure that five foreign Arab armies finally had to let them rule themselves.

An armed citizen is a citizen. An unarmed citizen is a slave. JMNTHO.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

...
Why is there no outcry from the vast majority of American citizens? The legal rights that are being trampled are YOUR RIGHTS!

Because the vast majority of citizens have been indoctrinated by the Federal Government Indoctrination Centers, otherwise known as the Public School System. They are dependent on the Government from the cradle to the grave for what they eat, where they sleep and what they think. That's why there is no outcry.

They rather give up their freedoms for security. Threes Squares and a roof over their head. The American Dream. It all started back in 19...

 

[sr71plt]

I have a GM erotica e-book out covering this cattlemen vs. the march of civilization. It's by Dirk Hessian and is called Fire Down the Valley.

(There, brought relevance of the topic back to what this Web site is.)



http://www.allromanceebooks.com/thumbnailImages/1271250.jpg

 

[SteelPoint]

An armed citizen is a citizen. An unarmed citizen is a slave. .

And a citizen truly at one with the size of his own prick doesn't need a gun...

 

[R. Richard]

And a citizen truly at one with the size of his own prick doesn't need a gun...

Actually, the residents of the USA encounter quite a few pricks, in the normal conduct of their daily lives, which is one of the reasons that many carry guns.

"God created all men equal. Sam Colt made sure that they stayed that way."

 

[SteelPoint]

Actually, the residents of the USA encounter quite a few pricks, in the normal conduct of their daily lives, which is one of the reasons that many carry guns.

"God created all men equal. Sam Colt made sure that they stayed that way."

No pal, it's because of that sweet combination of innate sexual insecurity and a country built on devil-take-the-hindmost principles.

Christ, if those two things beset me, I'd be be polishing my AK47, too...

... but then, luckily, I live in a country where we think AK47s belong nowhere near the city streets and my friendly neighbourhood policeman would come and take it off me.

 

[R. Richard]

No pal, it's because of that sweet combination of innate sexual insecurity and a country built on devil-take-the-hindmost principles.

Christ, if those two things beset me, I'd be be polishing my AK47, too...

... but then, luckily, I live in a country where we think AK47s belong nowhere near the city streets and my friendly neighbourhood policeman would come and take it off me.

Yeah, but what if your friendly neighborhood policeman were busy keeping the Irish down? By the way, you friendly neighborhood policeman doesn't keep the Irish down with words, he/she/it uses guns. But then, your country apparently considers the Irish pretty much as we do cattle.

 

[Handley_Page]

Why is there no outcry from the vast majority of American citizens? The legal rights that are being trampled are YOUR RIGHTS!

Tried it on facebook and other 'social media' ?
Newspapers and all that ?
Good Luck

 

[Saxon_Hart]

Part of the issue is to many believe what the liberal controlled media spews out,and any of us who have a counter view are the tinfoil hat brigade. Lie to the people and discredit those who aren't ignorant to what's going on.
Like LC, have bought every .223 round and every 7.62 x 39 round I can get my hands on, which is not easy since we have major ammo purchasing competition from DHS. My fear now, is that the next time the public servant assholes, who do jack shit to serve the public, are going to come with more firepower. They know the militia exists, they just don't know the full scope.

 

[SteelPoint]

Yeah, but what if your friendly neighborhood policeman were busy keeping the Irish down? By the way, you friendly neighborhood policeman doesn't keep the Irish down with words, he/she/it uses guns. But then, your country apparently considers the Irish pretty much as we do cattle.

Excuse me?

Whose book of bile have you been swallowing uncritically? And since when was this conversation about Ireland, pray..?

I suppose you have to expect this kind of frantic thrashing around from someone who knows his 'argument' is basically unsound... and thinks anyway that arguments are for settling on the basis of whoever totes the biggest penis substitute.

Oh dear, oh dear...

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Excuse me?

Whose book of bile have you been swallowing uncritically? And since when was this conversation about Ireland, pray..?

I suppose you have to expect this kind of frantic thrashing around from someone who knows his 'argument' is basically unsound... and thinks anyway that arguments are for settling on the basis of whoever totes the biggest penis substitute.

Oh dear, oh dear...

So you're not from England/Britain?

 

[JackLuis]

A different slant, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the milk of cows"

It’s hard out there for a man’s man.

The kind of guy who willing to strap on the shooting irons, leave the wife and little ones behind and go out and administer some old fashioned western justice just like John Wayne would have done. Steely-eyed men who use assault rifles for rabbit hunting and wear kevlar vests in case the bunnies shoot back. Men who see evil in the world – at least since there has been a black guy in the White House – that must be put down before there can be peace in the valley. These grim-faced men just need a cause – or in this case: a cause célèbre, – to get them to saddle up the mini-van, kiss the wife goodbye at the break of dawn and ride off into destiny, not knowing if they will ever come back – but if they did, remember to pick up milk and dryer sheets at the store.

RR your story was more realistic and addressed the foundation of the argument.
I have no opinion one way or the other.

 

[49greg]

As you say, it's a porn site. Having said that -

Here's some actual facts: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/11/q-behind-bundy-blm-battle/

He isn't having his cattle thrown off his land. He has been grazing cattle on BLM land since 1993 and hasn't even APPLIED for grazing rights. He even admits to owing 300,000 dollars. (BLM claims much more - a million.) He owns 160 acres, he's grazing his cattle on 150 square miles -24 thousand acres of BLM land

He isn't a poor hardscrabble farmer. He's well off and he just wants to use BLM land for free. He's had over 20 years to settle this with the government. They have been litigating and court ordering this all that time. And the BLM never intended to keep his cattle, just hold them until he pays his bill. Heck, any guy that can afford 14 kids can afford to pay his bills.

Even George Washington used the Army to march on and force Farmer/Distillers to pay their whiskey taxes. This guy just has BLM people to deal with. He's lucky.

I await your scathing flames and factoid quotes. But first, think of this: What would be the result if YOU pulled a gun on a police officer who had a warrant and entered your rental house after repeatedly warning you to get out because you hadn't paid rent?

 

[SikFuk]

As you say, it's a porn site. Having said that -

Here's some actual facts: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/11/q-behind-bundy-blm-battle/

He isn't having his cattle thrown off his land. He has been grazing cattle on BLM land since 1993 and hasn't even APPLIED for grazing rights. He even admits to owing 300,000 dollars. (BLM claims much more - a million.) He owns 160 acres, he's grazing his cattle on 150 square miles -24 thousand acres of BLM land

He isn't a poor hardscrabble farmer. He's well off and he just wants to use BLM land for free. He's had over 20 years to settle this with the government. They have been litigating and court ordering this all that time. And the BLM never intended to keep his cattle, just hold them until he pays his bill. Heck, any guy that can afford 14 kids can afford to pay his bills.

Even George Washington used the Army to march on and force Farmer/Distillers to pay their whiskey taxes. This guy just has BLM people to deal with. He's lucky.

I await your scathing flames and factoid quotes. But first, think of this: What would be the result if YOU pulled a gun on a police officer who had a warrant and entered your rental house after repeatedly warning you to get out because you hadn't paid rent?

Ayup, there's always two sides to every story, ain't there? Trouble with some folks is, they can only see one side, and when the other side pokes its mangy head up out of the dirt, they covers their eyes, plugs their ears and goes "la la la la la la la la" so's they don't got to admit they were as wrong as a cowboy wearing slacks. The question is, is these folks who can only look at one side of an issue just plain ole ignorant, or are they the innocent victims of a well orchestrated brainwarshing campaign funded by folks like them thar Koch Brothers and those patriotic gun manufacturers that keep getting kids accidentally killed with their wares? I suspect it's a little of both. Ya'll go on back to your bunkers now and switch on Rush Limbaugh, cause he'll know how to spin this here tale jus the way ya'll likes it. (cowboy hat smilie goes here)

But seriously, this here bunker situation could be the perfect setup for a wife-swapping story, cept when she starts squealing like a stuck pig, the image of an actual pig might sort a ruin the moment, if ya know what I mean.

 

[LadyVer]

I have a GM erotica e-book out covering this cattlemen vs. the march of civilization. It's by Dirk Hessian and is called Fire Down the Valley.

(There, brought relevance of the topic back to what this Web site is.)

LOL Hey, Pilot. This just struck me as funny. Who would have thought this issue would relate to one of your books?


http://www.allromanceebooks.com/thumbnailImages/1271250.jpg

Quite funny, from this side of the Atlantic, to watch you Yanks cowering inside your gated communities, ready to pick off those of your fellow countrymen who couldn't afford the same calibre guns.

Perhaps one day the idea will dawn that a gunnocracy is maybe not the ideal way for a civilised society to rule itself.

I doubt it, though. If there's one special interest group over there that seems capable of even greater electoral pressure than the Zionists (which is saying something) it would have to be the redneck, intolerant gun toters.

I can relate to this.

-----------------------

PS There's another side to this story, and it has been in the news.

 

[StrangeLife]

Why is there no outcry from the vast majority of American citizens? The legal rights that are being trampled are YOUR RIGHTS!

I am not surprised. This is a good example of why we need to scale down the size of the government. There are too many people drawing too high a salary for not doing anything useful, and then they come up with shit like this.

The violation of single cattle farmer isn't enough to start a civil movement, but sooner or later people will get enough. There is a good reason why the administration is so keen on diluting the second amendment....


Oh - and regarding the relevancy for this site: To some people - especially democrats - cattle and sheep is porn.

 

[R. Richard]

Let's look at facts:
Mr. Bundy may well have prescriptive easement rights for the land where he grazes his cattle. That's not been covered in the news reporting.
Armed government agents came to the area where the cattle were grazing and drive said cattle. Said armed government agents had no writs and/or bill of sale for the cattle. In the West, driving cattle without legal paper is a felony crime. (Bovine boys used to hang such people, with no legal penalty.)
The means of driving said cattle included the use of helicopters. Driving cattle by means of helicopters, at this time of year means that cows will be run to death and their calves will be run to death or orphaned to starve to death. This is cruelty to animals and there's no exception under the law for scumbags, including federal scumbags.
Mr. Bundy and his bovine boys were denied access to public roads, apparently with no legal writs. This last is against the law.
At least several American citizens came to the area where the cattle were being mistreated and faced off against the scumbags.
The scumbags turned tail and ran.
The desert tortoises, who are supposedly endangered by the cattle are still there and so are the cattle, a state of affairs that has continued for some 140+ years.
The land that Mr. Bundy is using to graze his cattle is wanted, by a Chinese firm associated with Harry Reid's son, for a solar power installation. Harry Reid is a Senator for Nevada.
I will fault Mr. Bundy, in that he has put infrastructure into the federal land and he could have homesteaded the land, at least large parcels of it.
The feds want to charge grazing fees. The feds, however, do nothing to maintain the land on which they want to charge grazing fees.
Mr. Bundy and his bovine boys move the cattle form place to place, to avoid overgrazing, build watering ponds and even corrals.
Despite the nasty insinuations, most of the bovine boy are rather mild individuals, who respect the legal rights of others.
In the course of my work (NOT in Clark County,) I had several confrontations with the local scumbags. I charged them: "You be pimpin' fo' yo', mama." An armed man doesn't stand and take that. The scumbags did stand and take that. There are two possible reasons, 1) They be pimpin' fo' they, mama; 2) They be wimps. Wimp is a dread disease and highly contagious. The courts in Nevada have no interest in prosecuting pimps and/or stopping the spread of wimp. For this we pay taxes?

 

[SikFuk]

Yeah, R. R. lets look at facts.

LAS VEGAS— The Bureau of Land Management, National Park Service and other federal agencies today capitulated to threats of violence from armed militia members and ceased their legally and morally required duty to remove trespass cattle from public lands. Even worse, they returned 400 head of cattle rounded up over the past week so they can be illegally turned out on public land again without permit, payment or management oversight.

“The BLM has both a statutory and sacred duty to manage our public lands in the public interest, to treat all users equally and fairly. Instead it as allowing a freeloading rancher backed by armed thugs to seize hundreds of thousands of acres of the people’s land as their own fiefdom,” said Rob Mrowka, a senior scientist at the Center for Biological Diversity. “The BLM monumentally failed to remove the trespass cattle, collect fees, or protect the land for more than 20 years. Now it backed down in the face of threats and posturing of armed so-called ‘sovereignists.’ This is absolutely pathetic and an insult to ranchers and others who hold permits and pay their required fees to use the public lands.”

“If I just blew by the toll both the next time I visited a national park, while waving a gun, I’m confident the feds would haul me before a federal magistrate — as they should,” said Mrowka.

In stopping the roundup of illegal cattle on public lands, the federal agencies are ignoring two court orders, one from 1998 and the most recent from 2013, as well as their duties under the Taylor Grazing Act, Federal Land Policy and Management Act, Endangered Species Act and the Clark County Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Plan.

Two decades ago, rancher Cliven Bundy stopped paying the Bureau of Land Management for the natural resources his business takes from BLM lands in the Gold Butte area south of Mesquite, Nev. His permit was consequently revoked, but he has continued to graze cattle on the land illegally and without payment, giving him an unfair business advantage over the thousands of other ranchers who pay for the grass they use on private, state and public lands. Bundy has racked up $1 million in fees, penalties and interest that he refuses to pay. He has also refused to obey two court orders obtained by the BLM requiring him to remove the trespass cattle.

Federal agents began rounding up cattle a week ago but decided today to call it off. As many as 400 of Bundy’s cattle that were impounded are now being given back to him so he can once again turn them out on public lands without any payment or management.

“The BLM’s is setting a dangerous precedent in announcing that it will pick and choose who has to follow federal laws and who it will reward for violating them. It is opening the door for every business to stop paying for the water, wood, grass and minerals they take from our public lands. It is encouraging armed extremists to take over whatever lands it wants and threaten the public and public-land managers,” Mrowka said.

Bundy abdicated his grazing permit in 1994 due to lack of payment. In 1998 Clark County, as administrator for the Clark County Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Plan, purchased from willing sellers all the valid existing grazing leases in the Gold Butte area for $375,000 in exchange for being able to destroy a set amount of desert tortoise habitat on private lands to facilitate urban growth and development. The purchase included the acres in the revoked grazing permit, but Bundy has continued to graze on the county’s conservation land, undermining the agreement.

In April 2012 the Center for Biological Diversity filed a notice of intent to sue the BLM for canceling a planned roundup of the trespass cattle at the last moment.

“The situation is still very dynamic and uncertain,” said Mrowka, “and we are still gathering the facts and assessing the situation. That said, it’s clear that the BLM has a legal duty to remove trespass cattle for the land entrusted to it by the American people. It has a moral responsibility to not let armed thugs and threats of violence seize hundreds of thousands of acres of public land for their own. We intend to hold the BLM accountable to the American people, fair play, and to justice.”

 

[SikFuk]

....
The desert tortoises, who are supposedly endangered by the cattle are still there and so are the cattle, a state of affairs that has continued for some 140+ years.
The land that Mr. Bundy is using to graze his cattle is wanted, by a Chinese firm associated with Harry Reid's son, for a solar power installation. Harry Reid is a Senator for Nevada....

See below for an explanation of the solar power installation issue. In a nutshell, the proposed power plant (not on the land Mr. Bundy is illegally using) will harm desert tortoise habitat. They need another plot of land to mitigate that harm. That plot of land is being damaged by Mr. Bundy's illegal cattle, which could scuttle the power plant proposal. See the BLM link for a detailed explanation of the harm Mr. Bundy's illegal ranching operation is causing.

“Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.” This suggests to me that there may have been pressure to get the trespass cows off to offset the solar development, not a direct siting on Gold Butte.

article here:
http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2014...bundys-land-is-not-solar-farm-for-harry-reid/

BLM page here:
http://archive.today/nvlzr

The way I see it, BLM had to choose between allowing an illegal ranching operation to continue, or giving priority to a solar power plant installation that would replace a nearby coal fired power plant spewing tons of pollution every year. I think they made the right choice, and I think Mr. Bundy needs to grow up and stop acting like a baby.

 

[robertreams]

I wonder if goons become "goons" merely because one chooses to call them that? What a concise intelligent discussion of the facts! I guess our eminent writer never heard of he public good. As for it being our illustrious President's fault, why not blame the nigger for everything, after all he is just an arab, muslim, nigger, socialist, comunist, Nazi, Hitler, towel head!

by the way. How many cattle does the poor impoverished Mr. Bundy have? does he graze them night and day like the old cowhand from the Rio Grande and drive them hundreds of miles across thebarren waste to market like all our heroes of yesteryear? Be careful not to allow any sheep herders in there.

Federal land belongs to the people! How much has he paid us for this "perpetual lease"?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I wonder if goons become "goons" merely because one chooses to call them that? What a concise intelligent discussion of the facts! I guess our eminent writer never heard of he public good. As for it being our illustrious President's fault, why not blame the nigger for everything, after all he is just an arab, muslim, nigger, socialist, comunist, Nazi, Hitler, towel head!

by the way. How many cattle does the poor impoverished Mr. Bundy have? does he graze them night and day like the old cowhand from the Rio Grande and drive them hundreds of miles across thebarren waste to market like all our heroes of yesteryear? Be careful not to allow any sheep herders in there.

Federal land belongs to the people! How much has he paid us for this "perpetual lease"?

And then the obverse could be claimed. It's public land, it belongs to the public. Mr. Bundy is the public. How much of his taxes have been used to acquire, maintain or improve said land?

The street goes two ways, unless your in the downtown sections were every other street is one way. The BLM doesn't own the land, the people do. The people are the public. You, me, everyone is the public. Government isn't the public no matter how much people wish it to be.