Loving Relationships In D/s And The Challenges Of Redirecting The Vanilla Mind

[Arden]

Most of the questions here deal with mindset, and the challenges of refocusing the vanilla mind toward the D/s way of life. In particular, I'm interested in hearing from Dom/mes that have become involved in a love relationship with a vanilla person prior to introducing D/s into the relationship. Why? It adds some twists that may not exist when a Dom/me - submissive relationship progresses to love. In that situation, a submissive may have all ready worked through some of the following questions.

One topic I would like to pose would be the ability to accept being called someone's 'submissive'. For those of us that are older, we are used to the terms Lover, partner, spouse, wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc. to describe our love interest. How did you break through the barrier and accept the term 'submissive' as being as 'important' as the terms previously mentioned? This is not about how important a submissive is... only the acceptance of the term 'submissive' used to describe a person who is not used to being referred to as such.

How about some thoughts on how one has to redirect his/her line of thinking on the act of submission itself? Life experience often teaches us to be strongly self-sufficient, and many of us haven't had the luxury of allowing another complete care and control of our life since childhood. There can be mental conflict, and great difficulty in letting go of the control factor regarding your own life. Conventional wisdom may tell you that this defies common sense. But D/s is not conventional, it involves acceptance. How did/do you deal with this element? Also, when love comes first, the dynamics of the relationship will change entirely when the vanilla partner submits to his/her Dom/me. How did this affect your relationship?

Another topic... letting go of set sexual tendencies. I tend to be very submissive by nature, so I have established tendencies of wanting to give extreme sexual pleasure to my partner. It's not something I have to think about or be asked to do. I love giving pleasure because it's such a wonderful feeling just to be able to give that gift when the right emotional connection is there. I thrive on it. So, now I ask, how does one step back and detach from this mindset and allow direction from his or her Dom/me? Yes, it could be a struggle to hold back for some people.

I expect to add more questions as they come to light by reading replies to this thread. I would also like to thank everyone in advance for any wisdom which they might be able to offer... no matter how great or small in size.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Most of the questions here deal with mindset, and the challenges of refocusing the vanilla mind toward the D/s way of life. In particular, I'm interested in hearing from Dom/mes that have become involved in a love relationship with a vanilla person prior to introducing D/s into the relationship. Why? It adds some twists that may not exist when a Dom/me - submissive relationship progresses to love. In that situation, a submissive may have all ready worked through some of the following questions.

One topic I would like to pose would be the ability to accept being called someone's 'submissive'. For those of us that are older, we are used to the terms Lover, partner, spouse, wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc. to describe our love interest. How did you break through the barrier and accept the term 'submissive' as being as 'important' as the terms previously mentioned? This is not about how important a submissive is... only the acceptance of the term 'submissive' used to describe a person who is not used to being referred to as such.

How about some thoughts on how one has to redirect his/her line of thinking on the act of submission itself? Life experience often teaches us to be strongly self-sufficient, and many of us haven't had the luxury of allowing another complete care and control of our life since childhood. There can be mental conflict, and great difficulty in letting go of the control factor regarding your own life. Conventional wisdom may tell you that this defies common sense. But D/s is not conventional, it involves acceptance. How did/do you deal with this element? Also, when love comes first, the dynamics of the relationship will change entirely when the vanilla partner submits to his/her Dom/me. How did this affect your relationship?

Another topic... letting go of set sexual tendencies. I tend to be very submissive by nature, so I have established tendencies of wanting to give extreme sexual pleasure to my partner. It's not something I have to think about or be asked to do. I love giving pleasure because it's such a wonderful feeling just to be able to give that gift when the right emotional connection is there. I thrive on it. So, now I ask, how does one step back and detach from this mindset and allow direction from his or her Dom/me? Yes, it could be a struggle to hold back for some people.

I expect to add more questions as they come to light by reading replies to this thread. I would also like to thank everyone in advance for any wisdom which they might be able to offer... no matter how great or small in size.

Hi Arden, I am pleased you posted here. This is a really deep subject for me this late at night. And it is one that I personally will have to chew on for a while as I think my situation is very different than what you describe.

I am sure others will have much to say on this subject.

Eb

 

[Arden]

Re: Re: Loving Relationships In D/s And The Challenges Of Redirecting The Vanilla Mind

Hi Arden, I am pleased you posted here. This is a really deep subject for me this late at night. And it is one that I personally will have to chew on for a while as I think my situation is very different than what you describe.

I am sure others will have much to say on this subject.

Eb

Eb,

Thank you for even considering a response to my multitude of questions. I appreciate the fact that we are all unique individuals with different experiences in life, and that's part of what makes this forum so interesting. The opportunity to learn from others is priceless.

I do look forward to anything that you may have to offer when the time is right... Thanks!

 

[Hecate]

Your questions indeed are asking for a longer reply - so I too will have to postpone this to a later moment to answer indepth.

For now though I'd like to point you to the search function bellow the threads. We had the topic for discussion a few times - maybe with a slightly shifted focus, though maybe interesting and enlightening nevertheless... accounts of how beople have shifted from 'nilla to BDSM marriages. Willowpuss and a few others come to mind.

If you are very bored *winks* I have tried to gather a bit of info on this topic with links to discussions on here and my own thoughts on my web-page (which by clicking on the www button under this post you will find in the Lifestyle section on my web page.

Sorry - but I just don't have more time right now.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

One topic I would like to pose would be the ability to accept being called someone's 'submissive'. For those of us that are older, we are used to the terms Lover, partner, spouse, wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc. to describe our love interest. How did you break through the barrier and accept the term 'submissive' as being as 'important' as the terms previously mentioned? This is not about how important a submissive is... only the acceptance of the term 'submissive' used to describe a person who is not used to being referred to as such.

This part in a long term relationship like the one I have with my husband is possibly one of the hard part to get used to. Although when it is something that you really crave/desire/need then the term does make you feel important in the same ways as the "love interest" terms you mentioned.

How about some thoughts on how one has to redirect his/her line of thinking on the act of submission itself? Life experience often teaches us to be strongly self-sufficient, and many of us haven't had the luxury of allowing another complete care and control of our life since childhood. There can be mental conflict, and great difficulty in letting go of the control factor regarding your own life. Conventional wisdom may tell you that this defies common sense. But D/s is not conventional, it involves acceptance. How did/do you deal with this element? Also, when love comes first, the dynamics of the relationship will change entirely when the vanilla partner submits to his/her Dom/me. How did this affect your relationship?

I think the difference for us has been the fact that we would've both been considered nilla before we began our D/s, therefore, the redirection came from both sides. We have both had to rethink our conventional way of thinking of our relationship, to include this new direction we chose to take. The road isn't always smooth either, there are twists and turns, bumps and potholes, all trying to throw you off course. It takes real commitment to each other to make it work.

Another topic... letting go of set sexual tendencies. I tend to be very submissive by nature, so I have established tendencies of wanting to give extreme sexual pleasure to my partner. It's not something I have to think about or be asked to do. I love giving pleasure because it's such a wonderful feeling just to be able to give that gift when the right emotional connection is there. I thrive on it. So, now I ask, how does one step back and detach from this mindset and allow direction from his or her Dom/me? Yes, it could be a struggle to hold back for some people.

I have always been more submissive by nature, and hubby more dominant by nature (even though he's rather quiet). I don't think much has changed in that regard even in our sexuality. When he takes control, it just seems more natural for me.

My my Ms Arden, you've brought some difficult questions to the table. Hope I gave you something you could use to help you along.

dixi

 

[Arden]

Your questions indeed are asking for a longer reply - so I too will have to postpone this to a later moment to answer indepth.

For now though I'd like to point you to the search function bellow the threads. We had the topic for discussion a few times - maybe with a slightly shifted focus, though maybe interesting and enlightening nevertheless... accounts of how beople have shifted from 'nilla to BDSM marriages. Willowpuss and a few others come to mind.

If you are very bored *winks* I have tried to gather a bit of info on this topic with links to discussions on here and my own thoughts on my web-page (which by clicking on the www button under this post you will find in the Lifestyle section on my web page.

Sorry - but I just don't have more time right now.

Hecate,

Thank you so much for your reply, and for the suggestion to read at your web page, both are much appreciated.

Your own articles are very well written and thought provoking. I imagine that there are a thousand possible answers to the questions regarding D/s - vanilla relationships because everyone brings their own unique set of circumstances to the table when attempting such a relationship.

Luckily, I don't have to be convinced, or even encouraged to explore the D/s lifestyle. The desire and need for the physical aspects of the lifestyle already exist within me. They are my own desires, not something that I want strictly to make the relationship satisfying to my partner. Although our relationship is a LDR, we filled out BDSM checklists several months ago for grins, and were amazed at how compatible our desires are. Guess I'm a bit of a pervert at heart. *wink* What I seek, by posing the questions that I did, involves changing one's mentality for the most part. Perhaps it would have better been titled "Entering a D/s relationship during mid-life, and dealing with a lifetime of socially ingrained patterns of thought." I am nearly 46 years old, and have been a single parent to two children, 20 & 11, for over eight years.

I was recently able to spend eight days with my gentleman friend, and I can hardly describe the intensity of the feelings shared between us. Our relationship is one rooted in long term friendship, respect and admiration of each other as individuals. Because friendship was the primary relationship, we had no unrealistic expectations of anything more than a friendship ever existing. Love just happened.

I did make a search earlier yesterday before posting this thread, keywords nilla, vanilla, transition, and a few more. I may have missed something by limiting my search to thread titles, so will delve further into the matter today.

Thank you again for your response, Hecate. I would be very grateful for anything that you may have to offer in the future.

 

[Arden]

Many apologies, I may have done myself an injustice by posing so many questions at once in my original post. I would like to say that I welcome even short replies to individual questions if you might have anything to share.

 

[Arden]

Re: Re: Loving Relationships In D/s And The Challenges Of Redirecting The Vanilla Mind

Originally posted by dixicritter:
This part in a long term relationship like the one I have with my husband is possibly one of the hard part to get used to. Although when it is something that you really crave/desire/need then the term does make you feel important in the same ways as the "love interest" terms you mentioned.

Thanks, Dixi, that is a good way to look at it. So it may be a point of view that has to develop over time. Maybe it's unrealistic to think that I could accept this altered view of myself overnight...

I think the difference for us has been the fact that we would've both been considered nilla before we began our D/s, therefore, the redirection came from both sides. We have both had to rethink our conventional way of thinking of our relationship, to include this new direction we chose to take. The road isn't always smooth either, there are twists and turns, bumps and potholes, all trying to throw you off course. It takes real commitment to each other to make it work.

Throwing both partners into the equation does pose other twists and turns. In your relationship, the two of you were following similar paths in redirection of conventional patterns of thought together.

In my situation, we both have to be considerate and understanding of each others previous lifestyle. But ultimately, complete submission would require the acceptance of his desires for the direction our relationship would follow in the future. Communication and patience are most likely the key in establishing a solid foundation for a D/s relationship, but what about later on in the established relationship?

I think where I'm headed with this is toward the concept of reaching for higher levels of submission, and the dynamics of a D/s relationship. Is it unrealistic to think that one can truly offer everything to their Dom/me at one time? Or would it better be thought of as something that is done over time with reasonable time allowances for adjustment? On another note, are there D/s relationships out there that do not demand complete submission, but value each individual as an important part of making decisions?

I have always been more submissive by nature, and hubby more dominant by nature (even though he's rather quiet). I don't think much has changed in that regard even in our sexuality. When he takes control, it just seems more natural for me.

So the key may be in learning to control any wanton desire that I may have to initiate or ask for sex, go with the flow of his own desires and accept him as being the only one to say 'now'?
Darn it! lol

My my Ms Arden, you've brought some difficult questions to the table. Hope I gave you something you could use to help you along.

dixi

You have offered much more than you think, Dixi... thank you!

 

[modest mouse]

There are many relationships that are not BDSM-only yet are also not vanilla.

Are you referring to those people and/or relationships that are of a more conservative sexuality or those who are merely not exclusive to BDSM?

 

[Arden]

There are many relationships that are not BDSM-only yet are also not vanilla.

Are you referring to those people and/or relationships that are of a more conservative sexuality or those who are merely not exclusive to BDSM?

My apologies for something being unclear, modest mouse... to which post are you referring?

 

[modest mouse]

My apologies for something being unclear, modest mouse... to which post are you referring?

Hello Arden.

I hesitated to post as in the past I have been a rather outspoken critic of the term 'vanilla' and did not want that to become an issue in your thread.

It was with interest that I read your initial post as you are clearly trying to get at some of the mental and sociological issues that may arise when two people are essentially figuring out their sexual chemistry. My knowledge is such that I will be a mere spectator on the thread, but an interested one.

So my post was trying to understand how you and others may be replying. Are you referring to a Dom/me who becomes involved with a relatively conservative person, that is: not sexually liberated... or are you referrign to a Dom/me who becomes involved with someone who is merely not actively in the BDSM 'lifestyle' or a regular participant in BDSM sex, etc?

Writing it makes it seem like such a minor difference, purely semantics, but in my mind it does change the situation.

 

[Justina123]

One topic I would like to pose would be the ability to accept being called someone's 'submissive'. For those of us that are older, we are used to the terms Lover, partner, spouse, wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc. to describe our love interest. How did you break through the barrier and accept the term 'submissive' as being as 'important' as the terms previously mentioned? This is not about how important a submissive is... only the acceptance of the term 'submissive' used to describe a person who is not used to being referred to as such.

A small reply to a small part or your interesting post....
When Bruce and I are in vanilla settings, he refers to me as his "girlfriend" or his "love" or "my lovely woman" or somethingn similar. But when we are with d/s friends or at a play party or dungeon, etc. he calls me "my submissive" (or someimes 'my slut"!! depending on circumstances) and I have to admit I way prefer the "my submissive" because I know it has so much more meaning than the other names. That's what counts, what it means to him and to us, right?

Looking forward to reading more responses and may throw in a few more two cents when I have more time, thanks for the interesting topics!

- justina

 

[Arden]

Hello Arden.

I hesitated to post as in the past I have been a rather outspoken critic of the term 'vanilla' and did not want that to become an issue in your thread.

It was with interest that I read your initial post as you are clearly trying to get at some of the mental and sociological issues that may arise when two people are essentially figuring out their sexual chemistry. My knowledge is such that I will be a mere spectator on the thread, but an interested one.

So my post was trying to understand how you and others may be replying. Are you referring to a Dom/me who becomes involved with a relatively conservative person, that is: not sexually liberated... or are you referrign to a Dom/me who becomes involved with someone who is merely not actively in the BDSM 'lifestyle' or a regular participant in BDSM sex, etc?

Writing it makes it seem like such a minor difference, purely semantics, but in my mind it does change the situation.

Hello modest mouse,

The following of your descriptions would fit what I am referring to...

"a Dom/me who becomes involved with someone who is merely not actively in the BDSM 'lifestyle' or a regular participant in BDSM sex"

I very much look forward to hearing from you again...

Sincerely,
Arden

 

[Arden]

One topic I would like to pose would be the ability to accept being called someone's 'submissive'. For those of us that are older, we are used to the terms Lover, partner, spouse, wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc. to describe our love interest. How did you break through the barrier and accept the term 'submissive' as being as 'important' as the terms previously mentioned? This is not about how important a submissive is... only the acceptance of the term 'submissive' used to describe a person who is not used to being referred to as such.

A small reply to a small part or your interesting post....
When Bruce and I are in vanilla settings, he refers to me as his "girlfriend" or his "love" or "my lovely woman" or somethingn similar. But when we are with d/s friends or at a play party or dungeon, etc. he calls me "my submissive" (or someimes 'my slut"!! depending on circumstances) and I have to admit I way prefer the "my submissive" because I know it has so much more meaning than the other names. That's what counts, what it means to him and to us, right?

Looking forward to reading more responses and may throw in a few more two cents when I have more time, thanks for the interesting topics!

- justina

Hi justina...

Thank you, you touched directly on what I was referring to. I'm curious, though, what were your feelings about being called a submissive or a slut (affectionately) in the beginning? Was it something that you just took to, or did you have to realign your thinking to feel 'submissive' was as important as 'Love', etc.? Did it ever bother you to affectionately be called 'My slut'?

I would likely flinch at hearing myself called the latter. For so long now, the term has had a very negative connotation within my life. (Just being honest here)

Love to hear back from you if possible... Thanks!

 

[MissTaken]

Hello Arden!

*warm hugs* I am glad to see you posting here and like the some of the others needed some time to mull how to attack your post!



Reconciling our upbringing, traditional values and experience with the new journey into submission wasn't easy for me. There were times of self doubt wherein I almost believed what people who don't understand say about subs...i.e. doormat, low self esteem etc.

For me, like you, being submissive was always the case, so that I yearned to please my partner wasn't difficult. I had never been comfie with the man who wanted to please me, seemingly selflessly but thought nothing of giving oral sex for a couple of hours with nothing in return

However, as I learned, talked, made friends and dated Doms and built upon my experience I found peace. Learning to define not BDSM, but BDSM for me has been crucial. Recognizing the role it can play in my life as well as knowing with confidence the role I want it and need it in my life has been very helpful. Making like minded friends also has a way of making it not seem as freakish as my nilla self may have found it in the beginning.

I was thinking last night about something comparable to this. In my previous relationships, my biggest mistake was lack of communication on many levels and not believing or working toward getting my own needs met. Now, I am a submissive person, but engaging int he lifestyle has actually taught me to be more assertive and in a fashion, selective when it comes to my own expectations. It almost seems a dichotomy that engaging as a submissive has taught me to be a stronger person.

Hmm I am babbling, I know.

In terms of taking direction, at first, it felt a bit uncomfortable, but after having done so, finding his pleasure and receiving all those loving touches and intimate thank you's soon showed me that it was merely pleasing, but not on autopilot!

Hugs to you Arden!


You are an incredible woman and deserve every happiness. Go and get it , girl!

 

[Ebonyfire]

Most of the questions here deal with mindset, and the challenges of refocusing the vanilla mind toward the D/s way of life. In particular, I'm interested in hearing from Dom/mes that have become involved in a love relationship with a vanilla person prior to introducing D/s into the relationship.

As I posted before Arden, my reply will reflect My own reality.

1. Not all Dommes, strive to refocus the vanilla mind toward D/s.

I do not. I may accept new submissives, but they are always subs. I do not train vanillas. I do not want a vanilla to "turn to D/s."

If a man is not submissive when he petitions me, I do not want him.

I have a SO, and he is vanilla. He has no interest in being my sub, and I have no need for him to be my sub.

I am poly, and I can have as many subs as I see fit. He knows this and he finds it acceptible, and even interesting.

2. Not all Dommes want to have a romantic relationship with their submissives.

I do not have romantic relationships with my subs.
My primary relationship withmy submissive is D/s. that is what brings us together and that is the focus.

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

Many apologies, I may have done myself an injustice by posing so many questions at once in my original post. I would like to say that I welcome even short replies to individual questions if you might have anything to share.

Uh, I think we all have done that in the past.

At least I could follow your train of thought. I appreciate that!

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Loving Relationships In D/s And The Challenges Of Redirecting The Vanilla Mind

As I posted before Arden, my reply will reflect My own reality.

1. Not all Dommes, strive to refocus the vanilla mind toward D/s.

I do not. I may accept new submissives, but they are always subs. I do not train vanillas. I do not want a vanilla to "turn to D/s."

If a man is not submissive when he petitions me, I do not want him.

I have a SO, and he is vanilla. He has no interest in being my sub, and I have no need for him to be my sub.

I am poly, and I can have as many subs as I see fit. He knows this and he finds it acceptible, and even interesting.

2. Not all Dommes want to have a romantic relationship with their submissives.

I do not have romantic relationships with my subs.
My primary relationship with my submissive is D/s. that is what brings us together and that is the focus.

Eb

 

[Shadowsdream]

Good morning Arden...
I have been following the thread since the moment that you posted it. There are so many questions in such a large body of text that trying to substantially answer point by point in My general rambling way simply may have possibly made the answer longer than it needs to be.
So I am going to wipe My mind of all but what I see written and between the lines.
Really I see 2 questions that answer all the rest to Me...

Retraining a vanilla mind would never ocurr to Me, neither to attempt it nor to suggest it.
When a submissive kneels at My feet, even if this thought had never occurred to him or her before that moment, I see the submissive mind set.
It will be *MY* aura of Domination that will fill their minds, My communication skills that will give them the freedom and comfort to feel fully accepted for all of their kinks and passive ways.
During the *getting to know you* stage My questions are blunt AND mixed with a nuance of subtle probing and what the submissive shows Me even between the lines is catalogued in My mind.
In the first real time meeting I will watch the eyes to see if they soften at the word submissive, if the lips curl up at the ends or press together slightly. If the voice drops imperceptively in volume or tone or if it becomes slightly louder and giggly. If the hands lay naturally and quietly in their lap or behind their backs or if they come to the top of the table to fidget.
I will be watching for the NATURAL signs of submission, more than simply a submissive personality, since for Me it always begins as D/s the possible relationship has not already been clouded by a deep vanilla friendship nor love.
Some submissives will never be comfortable hearing the word *submissive* being used to describe themselves. But when I use it for the first time I watch for all the signs above....But above all I will watch to see if the spine straightens with the word *submissive*
*slut* is another word that turns some on and sends others into a spiralling depression of low self esteem...
Words are just word..it is the emotions between the two people speaking and hearing the words that will bring pride or disgust.
Extremely simple in its complexity....

 

[Arden]

Ebonyfire, Shadowsdream, Miss T., I'd like to thank each of you for your posts this evening, your responses are very much appreciated. Each of you have provided a wealth of information to consider, and I hope to reply individually tomorrow. My fingers tend to not cooperate well on the keyboard at this hour...

Again, thank you A/all

 

[Impish]

thank you

What an interesting topic... my eyes will be glued. As yet undefined (ah she smiles and spits it out.... vanilla) but attracted to a dominant man, this string interests me much.

 

[Justina123]

I'm curious, though, what were your feelings about being called a submissive or a slut (affectionately) in the beginning? Was it something that you just took to, or did you have to realign your thinking to feel 'submissive' was as important as 'Love', etc.? Did it ever bother you to affectionately be called 'My slut'?

Arden:

I did not like the word "slut" at all at first, it literally made me wince. As you say, just way too many negative past connotations. Even in bdsm stories, etc. it is often said in a put down kind of fashion. Bruce could tell I had this reaction and we talked about it towards the beginning, I remember shaking my head no several times when he called me that and once even saying, "I am NOT a slut!", but to him it really truly is not a put down but an indication that I am quite sexually open and hungry....and to him, that is a plus and something he says he loves about me. Nevertheless, he did not call me "slut" in front of others for a while, until I'd come to get used to it and he even asked me for my consent to use that term in front of other d/s friends, and lo and behold, now I like it 'cause I know what it means to him/us.

But "submissive" especially with that all important MY in front of it, I have always loved as it never had any negative connotations to it.

-justina

 

[Arden]

Hello Arden!

*warm hugs* I am glad to see you posting here and like the some of the others needed some time to mull how to attack your post!

Reconciling our upbringing, traditional values and experience with the new journey into submission wasn't easy for me. There were times of self doubt wherein I almost believed what people who don't understand say about subs...i.e. doormat, low self esteem etc.

I suppose I should go to therapy to rid myself of my Catholic upbringing woes...

For me, like you, being submissive was always the case, so that I yearned to please my partner wasn't difficult. I had never been comfie with the man who wanted to please me, seemingly selflessly but thought nothing of giving oral sex for a couple of hours with nothing in return

However, as I learned, talked, made friends and dated Doms and built upon my experience I found peace. Learning to define not BDSM, but BDSM for me has been crucial. Recognizing the role it can play in my life as well as knowing with confidence the role I want it and need it in my life has been very helpful. Making like minded friends also has a way of making it not seem as freakish as my nilla self may have found it in the beginning.

Thank you so much for the honest, caring replies here, Miss T. Gosh, you may have summed everything up in a simple sentence.

"Learning to define not BDSM, but BDSM for me has been crucial."

Perhaps it matters not what BDSM means to others, but what it means within our own hearts. Happily, I don't think of BDSM as being freakish at all. I was lucky to attend college and art school with a quite diverse group of sexually oriented people. Nothing about any particular group seems odd to me, it's just a matter of choice. I hope that with time, others will grow to respect my own choice.

I was thinking last night about something comparable to this. In my previous relationships, my biggest mistake was lack of communication on many levels and not believing or working toward getting my own needs met. Now, I am a submissive person, but engaging int he lifestyle has actually taught me to be more assertive and in a fashion, selective when it comes to my own expectations. It almost seems a dichotomy that engaging as a submissive has taught me to be a stronger person.

Perhaps because BDSM forces one to become brutally honest with others about one's wants and needs. Possibly even helps one to define what their true needs are vs. what they *think* may need. How true that lack of communication ruins so many relationships when we are young, and lucky are those that are able to learn from those mistakes and move forward with their lives as a better person for it.

Hmm I am babbling, I know.
Stop that, you are not at all. Your post has been very interesting and enlightening, Miss T. Food for thought is exactly what I am looking for in this thread.

Hugs to you Arden!

You are an incredible woman and deserve every happiness. Go and get it , girl!

I assure you, determination is something that I do not lack
Thank you so much once again, and I truly appreciate the hug!

 

[Arden]

Re: Re: Loving Relationships In D/s And The Challenges Of Redirecting The Vanilla Mind

As I posted before Arden, my reply will reflect My own reality.

1. Not all Dommes, strive to refocus the vanilla mind toward D/s.

I do not. I may accept new submissives, but they are always subs. I do not train vanillas. I do not want a vanilla to "turn to D/s."

If a man is not submissive when he petitions me, I do not want him.

I have a SO, and he is vanilla. He has no interest in being my sub, and I have no need for him to be my sub.

I am poly, and I can have as many subs as I see fit. He knows this and he finds it acceptible, and even interesting.

2. Not all Dommes want to have a romantic relationship with their submissives.

I do not have romantic relationships with my subs.
My primary relationship withmy submissive is D/s. that is what brings us together and that is the focus.

Eb

Good Morning Eb,

And thank you for your reply to some of the questions that I posed.

1. Not all Dommes, strive to refocus the vanilla mind toward D/s.

Very good point, Eb. A Dom/mes preference for whom, or what type of person they would accept as their own submissive seems as varied as the reasons that one enters the D/s lifestyle. I think you are a strong, no-nonsense woman and you have a concise, clear image of your personal needs.

I'm curious why you would accept, as a sub/slave for yourself, only a person that has established themself as a submissive. Is it the time investment that it takes to train a sub, or simply the need to *know* that this person has a clear vision of themself as a sub? I can understand why you wouldn't want to waste your time with a vanilla that could change his/her mind halfway into training, only to decide that the lifestyle wasn't for them.

On the flip side, I also wonder if there may be Dom/mes out there that prefer training (submissively inclined) vanillas as their subs, so that the sub will be molded to that particular Dom/mes needs and desires. An experienced sub would likely bring the vision of the person that trained them into consecutive D/s relationships. So there would, in most cases, be the need to mold even an experienced sub to serve you as you desire.

2. Not all Dommes want to have a romantic relationship with their submissives.

It was interesting to me, when I first started reading about D/s many months ago, that this type of Dom/me - sub relationship even existed since sex 'seems' to play such a strong role in D/s. I have no experience with D/s parties, so I have not been exposed to a D/s scene that does not end with a sexual act being performed. Generally speaking, I rarely see a sub speak candidly about their Dom/me without mentioning their love for their Dom/me. So many D/s relationships appear to move in that direction, even if established for the sole purpose of fufilling mutual needs. I have to wonder how many a sub has been disappointed that their Dom/me held Him/Herself to this "no love" point and had to walk away from the relationship due to their own disillusionment that love could happen. I assume the key there would be a Dom/me's ability to look into the soul of a potential sub and turn down one that may have that need in his/ her heart. Respectfully, it appears that a wise Dom/me must also have the skills of a psychoanalyst to weed out some potential subs while interviewing them.

I have rambled on far to long now, but I would like to wish you all of the best in your relationship with your SO. It's wonderful that you have found someone who enhances your life while not asking that you exclude the fufillment of other needs.

 

[Arden]

I'm curious, though, what were your feelings about being called a submissive or a slut (affectionately) in the beginning? Was it something that you just took to, or did you have to realign your thinking to feel 'submissive' was as important as 'Love', etc.? Did it ever bother you to affectionately be called 'My slut'?

Arden:

I did not like the word "slut" at all at first, it literally made me wince. As you say, just way too many negative past connotations. Even in bdsm stories, etc. it is often said in a put down kind of fashion. Bruce could tell I had this reaction and we talked about it towards the beginning, I remember shaking my head no several times when he called me that and once even saying, "I am NOT a slut!", but to him it really truly is not a put down but an indication that I am quite sexually open and hungry....and to him, that is a plus and something he says he loves about me. Nevertheless, he did not call me "slut" in front of others for a while, until I'd come to get used to it and he even asked me for my consent to use that term in front of other d/s friends, and lo and behold, now I like it 'cause I know what it means to him/us.

But "submissive" especially with that all important MY in front of it, I have always loved as it never had any negative connotations to it.

-justina

justina...

Thank you once again for your candid reply. So wincing at some terms that are common to D/s, but offensive to others is a normal thing and some others do wrestle with it for a while. I think slut, in particular, is the one does that to me the most. I guess I always defined the word slut to mean one that has a voracious sexual appetite, and feels no qualms about not needing love to be a part of it. (yeah, the 'nice' description) Now, you have to reach within yourself and accept it as a term of affection that includes love (in your case, maybe not for all). I'm glad to hear that you were able to talk about it with Bruce, and it sounds like he understood that you needed help accepting it. That he asked your consent to use it around other D/s friends is commendable. Bruce sounds like a wonderful, considerate man - lucky you!

Funny you should mention the "My," word, and I'll throw in the "Mine" word here for good measure. Not terribly long ago , I was reading a PM and suddenly sensed pride and respect in those words, far beyond the typical meaning when used as "my boyfriend", "my girl," etc. It may have been the content of the PM that made me view it in this new light, but no matter how it came about, it shows that views can change with time and understanding.

Thanks again, justina. I truly appreciate your reply, it has been very helpful.