Love, it's a motherfuck.

[Joe Wordsworth]

I'm sure at some point the proper course of action will become clear to me. I am a rational man. Its my job and my passion and my lifestyle. Problems have solutions, X is predicated by Y. Time, effort, and reason prevails.

However, I am in a terrible confusion of parts that don't work as a whole.

It's love stuff. Not the topic du jour, I'm sure, but its on my mind and if nobody really minds I'll just talk about it a bit. So, there's this girl, see? And she's entirely not my type.

Not at all.

I have a preference in women that can be derived from my avatar, I'm sure. I like something in a firm, tanned, gorgeous blonde; something sorority-like. That's my type. I find no shame in that. But, even in the cases of that being 9/10 girlfriends for me, there is this one girl...

She's not quite a Barbie. She's shy, reserved, a book-reader-type (if that holds any meaning for anyone). She's the oldest friend I've got, and I know that if I were to marry anyone... well, it'd probably be her. We're just that close.

However, that I've got feelings for her is a complication. And, lately, I've been fearing that as I'm certain that nothing can come of it... that I am wasting my time falling prey to those feelings. Is Love really worth waiting for? What if you're not interested in waiting? What if you just can't wait?

Good question for discussion, I think.

 

[snooper]

Love, it's a motherfuck.

Oedipus, schmoedipus. What does it matter as long as he loves his old mother?

 

[SnoopDog]

I'm sure at some point the proper course of action will become clear to me. I am a rational man. Its my job and my passion and my lifestyle. Problems have solutions, X is predicated by Y. Time, effort, and reason prevails.

However, I am in a terrible confusion of parts that don't work as a whole.

It's love stuff. Not the topic du jour, I'm sure, but its on my mind and if nobody really minds I'll just talk about it a bit. So, there's this girl, see? And she's entirely not my type.

Not at all.

I have a preference in women that can be derived from my avatar, I'm sure. I like something in a firm, tanned, gorgeous blonde; something sorority-like. That's my type. I find no shame in that. But, even in the cases of that being 9/10 girlfriends for me, there is this one girl...

She's not quite a Barbie. She's shy, reserved, a book-reader-type (if that holds any meaning for anyone). She's the oldest friend I've got, and I know that if I were to marry anyone... well, it'd probably be her. We're just that close.

However, that I've got feelings for her is a complication. And, lately, I've been fearing that as I'm certain that nothing can come of it... that I am wasting my time falling prey to those feelings. Is Love really worth waiting for? What if you're not interested in waiting? What if you just can't wait?

Good question for discussion, I think.

Well, why shouldn't she be 'the one'. I believe that your usual preferences in women is pretty much biased by your environment, friends, etc.

And even if you really only like those 'sorority-zype-of-girls', how can it be explained that you feel for this other woman ? True love. (and I don't mean having a crush, being curious, etc. but maybe true love). Maybe ?

And by the way, I firmly believe 90% of those 'sorority-chicks' are not as beautiful as they look like.

Give it a try.

Snoopy, my 2 cents.

 

[English Lady]

Ahhh well this kind of thing is not uncommon Joe love, not that thats much consolation on its own is it?

Well it is a difficult situation.....do you tell your feelings and bugger up your friendship or do you keep it all in and possibly miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime.


Hmmm...i honestly don't know what to advise you for the best....you could generally ask her if you think friends could ever be more than that....if she wants to know why you can make up x and y who are in that situation*L*
Then depending on your answer...you might know what to do


Otherwise...love may just be a waiting game


Oh and if you ever want other such advice (ie mostly useless) or someone to talk at...drop me a note I'm pretty good at reading (well i can't listen online can i?*L*)

 

[boxofrocks]

Personally, if a guy is all goggle-eyed at me, I'll look the other way.

If it's a friend, it makes it uncomfortable and I normally distance myself from friends who do the come-on.

That's just me. I'd move really slowly if you're thinking of advancing on this friend. As my fiance knows, once a friend crosses the line and tries to sleaze, they're history.

Unless you're really sure she has feelings reciprocating your own, I wouldn't make any kind of move.

A few tenderly placed hints without giving too much away should let you know if she's interested. Otherwise, I'd just let your feelings die if the friendship means that much to you.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Here's the twist...

And this is probably really, really hard to imagine for some (though not necessarily for all). We've been having something of an affair for a year now, it's happened a few times. I feel almost certain that she does love me.

The problem is her having a relationship and my not wanting to wait for one.

 

[English Lady]

oh my.

now thats a twist.


oh my oh my.


well then love, there isn't much you can do is there? As long as she continues this relationship you can't really do anything.


Probably not what you want to hear but it's true.


If it is love you feel you'll only be able to sit and wait...if it isn't then maybe you can move on-but i doubt you would have posted this if it wasn't-love that is

 

[sincerely_helene]

Some of the appeal might be derived from the challenge it presents. Just a thought.

 

[boxofrocks]

Some of the appeal might be derived from the challenge it presents. Just a thought.

Good point!

One always craves what one can't have.

 

[boxofrocks]

Also, if she's cheating on this other guy, what's to stop her cheating on you?

 

[sincerely_helene]

Once again, the challenge factor. We females are very guilty of the "I can change him" syndrome. Nothing to say men don't experiance that also.

Maybe it's love, I'm by no means trying to de-rail that option either.

 

[Carl East]

This is probably a worn out clique, but you'll both know eventually. It'll probably happen like this. Someone else will fall for you or her, and that's when you'll either realize that you want her, or you'll choose the one who's fallen for you. It'll be one of those fork in the road moments. Choose wisely my friend, because we may be talking about your choice in another thread ten years from now.

Carl

ps Good luck

 

[sincerely_helene]

Or else they could both turn out to be sluts.

That would suck.

Good luck to ya, Joe!!!!

 

[CharleyH]

Here's the twist...

And this is probably really, really hard to imagine for some (though not necessarily for all). We've been having something of an affair for a year now, it's happened a few times. I feel almost certain that she does love me.

The problem is her having a relationship and my not wanting to wait for one.

Not really a twist Joe. You already have a relationship, apparently one that has been fostered for years and that continues sporadically. It's not that you are waiting for the relationship, (since you haven't indicated that she declined) but no doubt, you are waiting for her to be comfortable in one, as many of us do.

Just wondering if this has crossed your mind, which of course would throw new light on your 'not wanting' to wait.

 

[Dirty Slut]

Or else they could both turn out to be sluts.

That would suck.

Good luck to ya, Joe!!!!

And what's the matter with Sluts? You think men can have it both ways, and women can't? Whose side are you on?

DS.

 

[SnoopDog]

Man, love really can be a pain in the ass.

But it CAN actually be beautiful though.
I have a friend who's had his (second) girlfriend ever now for the recent years. They are both (except some usual small fights) über-ahppy and I'm pretty sure they won't let each other go until one of them passes away with what I hope will be 100 years of age or more. Whenever I get weary and doubtful over love I look at them, 'the inofficial happiest couple of the world', and know that love CAN be all happy and good.

Snoopy

 

[shereads]

Also, if she's cheating on this other guy, what's to stop her cheating on you?

Having known someone who knew someone who cheated on someone, I think I can answer that: She won't cheat on the one she's really in love with. Not because she's incapable of cheating, but because she's in love.

The difference between loving a man and being in love with him is vast, and its implications are never entirely clear until you've experienced both feelings at once. If you consider yourself the person most of us want to be and believe we are - loyal, honest, trustworthy- the realization that you have these two incompatibe feelings at the same time really is like being torn in two. Like most cliches, that one exists for good reason and its as painful as it sounds. You're suddenly the villain of your own narrative. Short of turning back time, all of your choices now are wrong.

At least two of three people are about to get screwed.

One of them - no matter what the woman decides now - will be the man she loves like a brother. He gets screwed if she cheats, of course. But he also gets screwed if she chooses either of the alternatives to cheating: leaving him before beginning another relationship, or staying out of a sense of moral obligation. She might, if she's especially proud of her moral code and strength of character, stay for years, cheating only in her heart and soul. By the time she does leave, the mutual resentment has turned into something like hatred. And he's been cheated of years when he might have found a woman who would love him the way she wanted to, but didn't. He's worse than cheated on and worse than screwed. He's royally screwed.

Or so I've heard.

Love, it's a motherfuck. Joe, I've never heard it expressed more succinctly.

I hope this was helpful.

 

[Sshafer]

Love is a motherfucker

From what I read you and her are best freinds. This is a rough one. Once you cross a cernten piont such as sex you can never go back to the way it was before you and her had sex. Love is a crap shoot at best. So go real slow or like it was said earlier you might find yourself on a different thread ten years down the road saying boy did I fuck up. Love is never easy the rules of it changes all the time. No one can tell you real what you shpuld do or not to do its differnt fo evey one. So the best you can do is go with your gut feeling and hope for the best. It can be good if every thing works and it can be your worst nightmare if it doesn't.
So good luck Kid.

 

[KarenAM]

Here's the thing: more than 50% of marriages fail. Most sexual and romantic relationships fail. These people were in love at some point, but remember that love and hate live in the same neighborhood, and either can turn on a dime.

I've long maintained that the reason that most "love" relationships fail is because "love" in our society has been so romanticized that it has become a fantasy, and we have been taught that all our fantasies are supposed to come true. So when you "love" someone, you set yourself up for a whole series of impossible expectations that in the real world simply cannot come true.

For you, Joe, it's the Barbie fantasy. Like most men, you have things about women that you find sexy and appealing, and you naturally want them. Women are the same way, which fuels the romance novel industry (which the last time I checked was about the same size as the porn industry). But you are also wise enough to see that this is a fantasy, and there is a part of you that understands what makes most successful relationships work.

Firendship. When I look at couples that have been together for 50+ years, I always am struck at not how much they love each other but how much they LIKE each other. Friendship is much, much more durable than "love", and the kind of love it engenders is much more durable also. My guess is that when you want to have sex with a Barbie it's because you want to feel good, but having sex with your best friend is largely because you want her to feel good.

The problem is that our society doesn't acknowledge the kind of love found in a friendship as being valid for sexual relationships. We pile the false, romantic "love" on anything sexual and tell stories about "true love" and "soulmates" and all that rubbish. We tell people that sex must be reserved for idealistic, fantasy "lovers" and not for those whom we are actually closest to: our best friends of the gender we like to have sex with.

I don't have an answer for you, Joe. She may well be trapped inthe paradigm of fantasy and romantic love and not see that maybe she's got a chance for something much more profound and lasting by loving her best friend instead. If this is the case for either of you, it won't work. But if you can both see past the lie of "love" and see the truth of friendship and real love, it might work.

The only way to know is to take the chance and talk to her about it. I wish you the best.

 

[Clare Quilty]

Here's the twist...

And this is probably really, really hard to imagine for some (though not necessarily for all). We've been having something of an affair for a year now, it's happened a few times. I feel almost certain that she does love me.

The problem is her having a relationship and my not wanting to wait for one.

Women have far more social I.Q. than straight men can begin to fathom. I'd be inclined to believe that this woman knows exactly how you feel about her and doesn't share those feelings to the same degree. If she did, she would extricate herself from her current relationship and trick you into thinking that it was your idea to to initiate a new relationship between the two of you. Women know exactly what they are doing with regard to these things. You might as well be sitting across the board from Judit Polgar as to try to make sense of the inscrutable romantic motivations of a woman.

 

[Guest]

Women have far more social I.Q. than straight men can begin to fathom. I'd be inclined to believe that this woman knows exactly how you feel about her...

Q., I'm inclined to agree with you here, given Joe's age (that's not a prejudice, Joe).
...
My point is only to say there are no generalities re. the sexes. P.

Edit: deleted some stuff

 

[Clare Quilty]

... My point is only to say there are no generalities re. the sexes. P.

I believe that there are certain distinctions between women and men of a given culture that are generally true. That is not to say that such generalities will apply to every member of the groups in question--otherwise they'd be "specifcalities."

 

[Carl East]

Women have far more social I.Q. than straight men can begin to fathom. I'd be inclined to believe that this woman knows exactly how you feel about her and doesn't share those feelings to the same degree. If she did, she would extricate herself from her current relationship and trick you into thinking that it was your idea to to initiate a new relationship between the two of you. Women know exactly what they are doing with regard to these things. You might as well be sitting across the board from Judit Polgar as to try to make sense of the inscrutable romantic motivations of a woman.

I can't help thinking you're giving women far too much credit for being able to see things clearer than men. In my opinion women are just as likely to misread a given situation as any man, although I will admit some men couldn't see a brick wall if it was in front of them. lol

In Joe's case, he already knows something has to give or he wouldn't be thinking about it all out loud, so to speak. I believe that if there are true feelings between them both, then it will all work out for the best in the end. The only way it won't, is if they're both too stupid to see what's right in front of them. I don't think that's the case in this situation though.

Carl

 

[Dirty Slut]

You should probably read my how to story on this. Just use the link below. That aside, love is like a butterfly, if you give it its freedom, and it returns then it was yours to have, if not then it wasn't yours to begin with.

DS

 

[Clare Quilty]

I can't help thinking you're giving women far too much credit for being able to see things clearer than men. In my opinion women are just as likely to misread a given situation as any man...

Perhaps that has, in your experience, been true. However, I've never read anything that even suggests that the social skills/awareness of women and men are generally on par. Also, I'm inclined to believe that discrepancy has a physiological as well as the obvious cultural component.