Lord of the Rings Trailer

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I saw it last night on "Entertainment Weekly". Pretty snazzy. Looks sharp, exactly how you'd want it to look. And I tell you, with all the orcs and flashes of lightning and wind swept mountain vistas and legions of Troll armies the grandest sight, the one that sends shivers up your spine, is just a simple shot of the Ring. Somehow, that shot made the whole project seem real. You suddenly say to yourself, "Holy shit, they actually filmed it."

At the end of the trailer they put up title cards:

The Fellowship of the Ring
Christmas 2001

The Two Towers
Christmas 2002

The Return of the King
Christmas 2003

They're shooting all three films at the same time. Pretty amazing undertaking.

Anyway, I think you can see the new trailer (or at least the old teaser trailer) at http://www.lordoftherings.net

I avoided reading the book until I was well out of high school, and finally nailed down both it and "The Hobbit" one summer. Great stuff.

 

[Merelan]

You are teasing me again. I have been waiting over a year, and still have a long wait. Sigh. I check it constantly. sigh.............

 

[Ambrosious]

I know it will never happen

But I always thought a Thomas Covenant movie would kick ass.

 

[Merelan]

I agree, but it won't happen. Too deep and complicated. To much interior dialogue.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

A Covenant film would be very nice. But, it is the adventure of a guy who commits rape at the very beginning of the story (the only mistake I think Donaldson made -- too hard to forgive. Though I admit Donaldon never really let Covenant off easy for that.)

I don't think you can find the new theatrical trailer on the web site I gave you all, just the teaser trailer, which is still pretty cool.

 

[livin_simple]

Thanks for the Hope!!

I've wondered for years why they've not done a movie for the Ring Trilogy. Then again, if they do to it what they did to the new Star Wars movie, I'd rather stay with the book. Can't stand expressionless, non-emotive actors interacting with main characters that are computer created and added after the fact.

I agree with the Thomas Covenant 'The Unbeliever' evaluation. I personally had a hard time finishing the series because I disliked the guy so much. Sure he finally rose to the occasion in the end, but golly a lot of people got hurt pretty badly by his choices in the interim.

So when will we see a good production for Ender's Game or bringing Honor Harrington to life??

 

[OUTSIDER]

A few years ago I read the David Eddings book's and enjoyed them a lot, I've always thought they would make a great movie.
I agree that the star wars movie was spoiled by the inclustion(sp) of the character ja ja Binks, it reminded me of how as a kid I went from loving to hating Scooby Doo after they added the character Scrappy Doo and now they'v done it again with Buffy the vampire slayer, they'v added a little sister who has never been mentioned before let alone being shown...? why do they do this crap do they think we're all stupid or what....never mind, the Lord of the rings movie looks great though, roll on xmas.

 

[Juspar Emvan]

Ohhh Neat

This is my kinda thread.

I LOOoooove Star Wars. I Have a number of Tolkiens books (of course The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, but also the Silmarillion and some of his stuff for younger readers.) The Lord of the Rings movie is being filmed here in New Zealand (or was, I believe they are fully into post production now) and we got snippits all the time.

As far as I understand it the movie wont degenerate to the point of Eppisode I (SW), the actors will be digitally altered but have been working predominantly together on location. Outsider I agree totally, Ja Ja was not a character in the same vein as the previous comics, I am seriously disapointed with so many facets of Eppisode I.

As for other fantasy lit that should be made into movies I vote for the Tad Williams "Memory, Sorrow, Thorn". That set was fantastic, and remains so every time I read it. I would not put Covenant in a movie, I found them like trying to swim through wet concrete.

 

[OUTSIDER]

Donaldson is hard work, he loves to use obscure words but he's not a bad read and at least he wouldn't have a scrappy Doo in his book....or would he..?

 

[Weird Harold]

A few years ago I read the David Eddings book's and enjoyed them a lot, I've always thought they would make a great movie.

I disagree that either the Belgariad or the Mallorean would make a good movie. Each is five volumes and rich in characterization and imagery. It's not possible to squeeze all of that down into a two or three hour movie without destroying it. (Dune is a prime example of how Hollywood can destroy a concept by trying to stuff too big a novel into the time constraints of a watchable movie.)

Incidently, I'm currently reading _The Redemption of Althalus_ by David and Laura Eddings. It totally unrelated to any of their other works, but every bit as good (so far.)

 

[Chuckus]

I saw it last night on "Entertainment Weekly". Pretty snazzy. Looks sharp, exactly how you'd want it to look. And I tell you, with all the orcs and flashes of lightning and wind swept mountain vistas and legions of Troll armies the grandest sight, the one that sends shivers up your spine, is just a simple shot of the Ring. Somehow, that shot made the whole project seem real. You suddenly say to yourself, "Holy shit, they actually filmed it."

At the end of the trailer they put up title cards:

The Fellowship of the Ring
Christmas 2001

The Two Towers
Christmas 2002

The Return of the King
Christmas 2003

They're shooting all three films at the same time. Pretty amazing undertaking.

Anyway, I think you can see the new trailer (or at least the old teaser trailer) at http://www.lordoftherings.net

I avoided reading the book until I was well out of high school, and finally nailed down both it and "The Hobbit" one summer. Great stuff.

Those appear to be interesting movies from the clip I have seen...........very interesting.

 

[OUTSIDER]

A David Eddings film would be hard to do but if they got it right then it would be great, on another subject sort of related I saw the 101 dalmations film the other day and was appaled to see that Disney had put rackoon's(sp) in a scene set in the UK, "WE DO NOT AND NEVER HAVE HAD RACKOONS IN THIS FUCKING COUNTRY".....sorry just venting there, I looked up some cutting's about the film and found that Disney exec's had replaced the scripted Badger's with with none native Rackoon's because quote "American kids won't understand what Badgers are"...?, that has got to be the most fucking lame excuse I've ever heard and an insult to American kids to boot, I mean what happens when Wind in the willows comes on and there is ratty, mole and badger, are you telling me they don't get it...bullshit of coarse they get it they are no way that dumb and if I we're a parent in the US I'd feel completely insulted, well sorry for bending your ear it just bugged me

 

[Stormystarr]

I read those two books when I was 12 and loved them. I can't wait to see the movies!

Reading has always been my escape from the insanity I call life.

 

[Thumper]

I waited..

a long time to read the Dune books...I remember seeing them all the time at the bookstore and even thumbing through them on occasion. It is interesting to think back on my preconceived notions about those books and compare them with what I think now. I have not read The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings trilogy...I think I shall do so this spring and summer...

The teaser looks great....my kind of story...

 

[Gaucho]

They're shooting all three films at the same time. Pretty amazing undertaking.

I still don't understand why George Lucas didn't do the same thing with the new Star Wars trilogy. From a time and continuity standpoint, it seems to make good sense and, if anyone could pull it off, it would be Lucas.

But I really want to know is why he decided to film the prequel and then not tell us what comes AFTER the original episodes. Doesn't he realize that that's really what we wanted to see? Knowing the setup is nice, but I REALLY want to know what comes next for Han, Luke, and Leia.

And I understand the difficulties he would face in trying to do it. Harrison Ford probably wouldn't be interested (although I have to think that Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill would be), but still...

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Gaucho, Star wars is the story of the rise, fall and redemption of good versus evil personified by Anakin Skywalker. It doesn't matter what happens to Luke and the rest. The mythos hangs on Anakin. When his redemption is over, so is the story.

That's Lucas' story, of course. Fans have plenty of "other" Star Wars fiction to choose from that feature their favorite characters.

But Lucas is a story teller and a good story teller focuses on a single arc. And for Lucas, that arc's heart is the story of Anakin.

Thumper, read "The Hobbit", but don't let it turn you off to "The Lord of the Rings". "The Hobbit" was written for children. "The Lord of the Rings" was written for adults. You don't necessarily have to read "The Hobbit" to enjoy "the Lord of the Rings", but it helps, since it introduces the actual Ring which figures so prominently in the trilogy. (Not to mention Gollum. Never mind who he is -- just read, my precious.)

 

[Gaucho]

Is it delicious, my precious?

Gaucho, Star wars is the story of the rise, fall and redemption of good versus evil personified by Anakin Skywalker. It doesn't matter what happens to Luke and the rest. The mythos hangs on Anakin. When his redemption is over, so is the story.

That's Lucas' story, of course. Fans have plenty of "other" Star Wars fiction to choose from that feature their favorite characters.

But Lucas is a story teller and a good story teller focuses on a single arc. And for Lucas, that arc's heart is the story of Anakin.

Yes, but a good story teller doesn't tell the ending first, either. And I realize that may be Lucas' story now, but it's a new version from the one he used to tell and an unsatisfying one, at that. The original series (episodes 4, 5, and 6) was intended, by all accounts, to be the middle of the series - not the end. While I found the first episode of the prequel interesting, it had a "been there, done that" feel that I couldn't discard while watching it.

Granted, this is all after the fact. When Lucas made Star Wars, he had no idea if he'd ever make another movie in Hollywood, much less complete a trilogy.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Exactly right, Gaucho. Lucas envisioned the Star Wars, Empire, and Jedi as the middle of the story, the 2nd of a trilogy of trilogies. I was told by a friend who's a huge Star Wars fan that the 3rd trilogy may eventually be made. I don't remember the details, but I've heard that it involves the seduction of Luke by the dark side of the force. Not sure if it's true or not, since most of this stuff only exists in Lucas' head and he's pretty secretive about it.

I just hope that Episode II is better than Episode I, which I found extremely disappointing. Jar Jar Binks wasn't the only thing that ruined the movie, but he was by far the worst part. The light saber fight at the end between the two Jedi and Darth Maul almost redeemed it for me, though. It might be my favorite part in any of the movies. I hated to see a character as wonderfully evil and frightening as Darth Maul die.

I loved the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings growing up and I reread them a couple of years ago. Tolkien has a wonderful way of transporting the reader by creating middle earth to the most minute details with references to history, folklore, myth, and song all born in his mind. Reading it is one of those experiences where you enter the author's world and you simply don't want to come back out.

 

[Merelan]

One reason stated as to why Star Wars wasn't filmed at the same time was that you need actors that are willing to put up with that. Tough work, working on two, three and more scripts at a time. Not many can do it. You also need a shitload of money, which Lucas didn't have when he first started. They didn't know how big it was going to be remember.
I have followed the Rings creation avidly. A warning to fans. There is a major change. The females in the books have much more developed storylines and action.
When Tolkien write these, he didn't have to cater to everyone. He was able to simply create. With the movies they realized that if they stuck to the storyline written by Tolkien, they would have a big protest. Nevermind that it is how it was written. I believe, from what I have read and seen, that they did a good job in this.
An idea as to how involved the actors are. The first day they, the hobbit actors, esp. Sean Austin, were in costume, their "feet" gave them troubles. After the day was through they sat and talked, then went to the dressers and creators of their costumes and offered suggestions for better fitting and more comfortable "feet". These were made up and used. This was a common occurance throughout the shooting.
Also, Viggo Mortensen, who plays Aragorn, actually preferred camping out and not washing regularly for authenticity. Many of the other actors joined him out in the fields.
Okay, stop me or I will keep going.

Also, I prefer this:
http://www.eonline.com/Features/Specials/Lordrings/index.html
for my information.

[Edited by Merelan on 01-20-2001 at 02:15 PM]

 

[OUTSIDER]

I'd be very surprised if they didn't find a way of bringing Darth Maul back some how...? maybe as a clone or cyborg, after all we saw him fall but that does not mean he's dead, and hopfuly the next film will start with the hideous death of Jar Jar Binks....maybe in some kind of futuristic meat grinder.....we can but hope.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Yes, but a good story teller doesn't tell the ending first, either. [/B]

Sure he does. It's a classic device. Steven Sondheim wrote a musical called "Merrily We Roll Along" in which the story was told backwards, from the end of a relationship to the beginning. "MacBeth" begins with the witches (essentially) telling you the ending. Story telling is not about being linear and "not giving away the plot", it's about exploring the human condition in an effective manner.

And as far as the "third trilogy" myth goes, it was always just that, a myth. Lucas never had a third trilogy in mind. That story was borne of a conversation he had with Spielberg after writing the first draft of the skywalker story. Spielberg said, "You know, you've got nine movies here", referring to the amount of material he had. That quote was picked up after the first movie became a smash. There ws NEVER a third trilogy in any sort of outline shape.

 

[Gaucho]

With all due respect, Dix, this isn't about storytelling, linear or not. It's about expectations. Like it or not, Lucas helped feed the idea of sequels for almost twenty years before coming out in 1999 and saying, "Oh well, there never were any stories for the sequels. It all ends at episode six. When you see episode three, you'll understand."

Of course, Lucas has the right to make whatever story he wants. Even if it's not the one people want to see. And because there is so much pent-up hunger for anything NEW that is Star Wars, fans show up in record numbers. And, typically, leave disappointed. Because, at least with Phantom Menace, it wasn't what they wanted to see.

When I left the theater after seeing the original trilogy, I left with two overriding feelings: The first was that I'd just been told a wonderful story, one that would resonate (or as Stephen King so eloquently put it, "Vibrate in the back teeth") with me for many years, if not for the rest of my life. The second was that, while the trilogy told a perfectly complete circle of a story - one that needed no augmentation - I wanted to know what happened to these characters. Did Han and Leia get married and have kids? Would Luke at some point fall prey to the allure of the Dark Side? That, to me, is the essence of good story telling: You leave your audience wanting more.

And while I admit there was some interest in knowing what came before the events of the first trilogy, that interest was tempered by the knowledge that we would discover WHAT CAME NEXT.

And, yes, I know that telling a story backward is a time-honored concept, although not a common one. The fact is, it's a damned hard way to tell a story and only a few have done it successfully. The only movie that I can think of to do it well (or at least on the scale that Lucas is attempting) is Godfather II, and the only reason it worked as well as it did was because Coppola told you both what came before AND what came after in the same movie.

In point of fact, that's not what Lucas has done, anyway. In effect, he started in the middle of the story (with episode four), moved on to the conclusion, and is just now going back to the beginning to tell us how it all started. To use your analogy, that's like seeing the last half of Macbeth and then twenty years later deciding you really should catch the first half, just so you can place the whole thing in context.

It's a very unsatisfying experience and it's one reason why, no matter how successful the next two films are, there will always be a (faint, to be sure) bitter aftertaste to them.

Oh, I'll go, all right. And I do want to know just how it is that Anakin became Vader. But I really want to know what happened to his son and daughter after he died.

Yes, Merelan, I realize that Lucas couldn't make the first three all at once. As previously stated, he was lucky to make one of them. But he was also canny enough to accept a very small payment for writing and directing episode four in exchange for all rights to the sequels and all merchandising rights as well. I was referring to the current trilogy (beginning with episode one). While it would be a hardship for the actors (at least the ones who were in all three episodes - not to mention the crew!) but at this point in time Lucas can certainly afford it. And it would cut the overall time it took to make the films considerably (which is one of the primary reasons Lucas has cited for not making the sequels).

But Lucas is on record (a la Bill Shatner) as telling his fans to "get a life" and it's quite clear he's going to tell the story he wants and then it will be finished.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Well, I think you're being a bit "fannish" when it comes to Lucas not doing what you want him to do. He has the same outline he's used since the 70s. There was never any story after Anakin's redemption. He didn't fan any flames of fan desire about a third trilogy. The fans don't need any help in that regard.

I NEVER want to see a film series that caters to its most ardent fanatics. I hated most of the later Star Trek films for that reason. Yeah, it was nice to see Sulu and Uhura and Chekov in the first film. But, honestly, they drove the ship and answered the telephone. They weren't great characters that needed to return and complete any sort of "personal journey." They were shoved into the movies, and their characters given "hero" and "legend" status, only because the Fans liked it. The films would have been seriously less maudlin and cute without having to create "set pieces" for the original series' background actors. A good case of crappy filmmaking based on presenting what the fans want.

James Bond has suffered from the same "give the fans their candy" syndrome. Did we really need to see "Q" in every flipping movie? Those scenes got increasingly tiresome.

"The Planet of the Apes" films, good or bad, were at least a great attempt to do something different each time -- while keeping a few elements that the fans liked (Roddy McDowell, for one). Still, they didn't slavishly pander to the fans (despite having to stick Heston into the second film to get funding). The "Alien" series, too, was successful at taking its characters and movies in new directions, and never over-pandering or paying slavish homage to what's come before. I'm hoping to GOD that's what Lucs does with the next two films.

I getcha' Gaucho. Luke, Han and Leia turned out to be very interesting, and, it would be interesting to see them in something else. But, like I said before, there's plenty of alternative story telling media you can find that feature them. (A friend of mine voiced Luke Skywalker for one of those audio tapes.)

I suppose what we're arguing here is what Lucas "should" do, and, frankly, he should be allowed to do whatever he wants to do. He certainly never has to worry about "expectation". Once an artist does that he's dead. If he's done with Luke and company he's done with Luke and company. He doesn't live in the same world as his fans. He doesn't wake up in the morning and go to Naboo.com to get story ideas. He doesn't have R2-D2 pillowcases. He has his own vision which he came up with in the mid 70s, and he's sticking with it, and I think it's damned silly for the uber-fans to keep hoping he'll be nice, put a Yoda doll on his PC, and type out a third trilogy.

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 01-21-2001 at 02:41 PM]

 

[Madame Pandora]

At the risk of sounding cheesy...

I watched the trailer. I can't pretend I don't want to see the film. But, I don't see anyway for a film version of Lord of the Rings to live up to my personal expectations. I will try to keep an open mind, but these characters have been living and playing in my imagination for so long, seeing them defined in reality...well...it is a lot for a movie (or even a series of them) to deliver. When I was a kid Bilbo and Frodo were real. Granted, it's been a few years since I've revisited them, but I have the fondest memories...

As far as Star Wars, I have always loved the films. I think Lucas had the unique position of being a pioneer, and there was a freedom he will never know again. Personally, I will always think Empire Strikes Back is the best installment, but I know most people think it's too dark in comparison. I didn't care for the last movie. It just seemed like it was a lot of "explaining" and not so much "story telling." It didn't grab me, but I didn't hate it, either. I don't think there is any reason he should buckle under expectation, but I think he's going to have to do more than sting together a bunch of half-plots and special effects next time. At least I hope he will.


I also agree, the Trek movies would do much better if they pandered less and focused on plot more. I think this is why Star Trek : First Contact was so much better than Generations and Insurrection. There was nothing "extra" to drag down the plot. Everything was in its own place. No kirk jumping on a horse, no Geordie getting his sight back - no "Troi and Riker FINALLY get together" scenes. If Trek is going to continue, then it needs to go back to what Roddenberry did. GOOD SCI FI. Period. Everything else just doesn't work.

Anyhow ;-) I'm just going to keep humming to myself from the cartoons...."Frodo of the nine fingers...and the ring of doom..."

MP

 

[Juspar Emvan]

My two cents

And again . . . my personal views.

It's a shame I don't have more time herer or I could write lots too. But to sumarise my thoughts from the postings so far:

• The movies an never live up to the expectations of books, because the viewpoint of a book is so much more than can ever be on screen. And, the characters we imagine have lived in our minds for so long - years some of them.
• The Star Wars movies started out with the best and have gone down hill to a greater or lesser degree with each installment.
• I understand that A New Hope was always written as eppisode IV of IX.
• The Star Wars Movies are not meant to be litterary works, they are movies. They are planned and written to be movies, the rules and objectives are different.
• Someone mentioned the Belgariad, that is a childs book as the Hobbit is to The Lord of the Rings. I own them all and enjoy them all, but try the Elenium. Sparhawk is the most incredible character I have ever read.
• Tolkien is not a great writer. He was a pioneer, way before the genre became popular. But there are many superior stories and story tellers out there. Feist, Wurts, Eddings to name a few. The Two Towers has to be one of the slowest stories I have ever read.

Now that I have stuck my stick in the hornets nest (and I haven't finished), I must go out. Have a lovely evening.