Looking for advice

[HardTime4_69]

I am writing my first story on here, and was just looking for some advice. I really like where the story has gone so far, but I feel like this first chapter may be a bit long for some readers. Its been a really slow build, to establish a special dynamic of the relationship between the characters. Anyone mind giving me a little advice here.

 

[vanmyers86]

A few specifics would help. How long is it now? And how long do you think the entire piece might go?

 

[HardTime4_69]

Right now I'm just shy of 17,000 words. It has finally gotten to the point of their first sexual encounter and I was planning on ending this chapter, when this encounter ends, so its getting close to the end.

 

[HardTime4_69]

That makes sense. Thanks! Basically, stop overthinking it and just write what feels right.

 

[SimonDoom]

Get it done, submit it, and see what happens.

You could go to the editing forum and ask for help from someone to give it a look, but sometimes it's hard to get someone to take the time.

Some final draft proofing and editing guidelines:

1. Get the dialogue right. People mess up how to format dialogue all the time. Look at how established authors handle this or review one of the "how to" guides.
2. Make tense consistent.
3. Make point of view consistent, or at least clear.
4. Edit carefully for punctuation and spelling.
5. Make sure you follow the Site's content guidelines (no underage, no snuff, etc.).
6. Choose the right category for your story.

Hope that's helpful.

 

[ElectricBlue]

That makes sense. Thanks! Basically, stop overthinking it and just write what feels right.

Exactly. Overthinking is the death knell of getting your writing out there.

If you've got a natural break point at the end of 17k then that's a longish chapter by Lit "best advice" - which is usually 10k - 12k words - but not too long. For guidance, one Lit page is around 3,750 words, give or take. 17k is about five pages.

Other than that, wot Simon says.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

One's first story - how exciting! {claps hands}

I personally like slow build-ups. If you're worried, you can always open with a short note saying that much of it is build-up. People accept that.

Please let us know when it's published.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

Whenever this subject comes up, I notice two schools of thought. One is to try to appeal to the most readers. The other is to do what's right for your story. I'm not criticizing either approach. The latter tends to sound more "noble," but it's really just a different order of priority. How people get paid for their stories here depends on the person. For some people, it's the rating. For others, the views. Other people care more about favorites, and others care more about feedback. To one degree or another, I think everyone cares about trying to improve, and those statistics and comments are one way of trying to gauge improvement.

If you are more interested in views, the statistical approach is better suited. Figure out what length story and what length chapter readers prefer (you can find lots of discussions about that here), and you'll be aiming for the greatest viewership. If you are more interested in favorites and comments, you may be more interested in stronger engagement with a smaller group, which might point you in the direction of caring less about the length of your chapters or story.

My personal opinion is that advice on chapter length and story length should be taken very sparingly. All the information you get is great, and it helps you know what's out there to consider. Just be careful with how you apply it to your own story. It's generic advice. You have a specific story. Also, keep in mind that much of the advice is based on the author's personal experiences, and many authors have a story length they tend to hover around. They may have great reasons for that (in many case, statistical reasons), but their reasons and you reasons may not match. If you're a writer who's more interested in a smaller group of very enthusiastic readers, you don't necessarily want to apply what works for attracting the largest, but less intensely engaged crowd. The reverse is equally true. Aiming to hit the sweet spot of a particular group of readers may make you less appealing to the larger numbers.

It's often been said here, too, that chapter and story length are different in different categories. The 10-12k average that's often cited (I'm sure more than one someone crunched the numbers) might leave a reader in some categories wishing for more. That said, a story or a chapter is complete when it's complete, you know? Depending on the story, you can sometimes change the organization to get a natural break in the "right" place, but I'd be cautious of forcing it.

I think that in general, the advice I see here tends to skew towards shorter lengths. The fact is that there are many, many oft-viewed and highly rated stories that have long chapters and plenty of them. (Some even get a bit insane. I think I saw 120 chapters.) Readers who want short stories and readers who want long stories are often looking for two different things. Of course the reader who wants a shorter story one day might want a longer story another day.

My point in hashing through all of these variables is that there's one constant, and the constant is what's right for your story. If you do it well, there will be someone who wants to read it.

 

[Acktion]

I am writing my first story on here, and was just looking for some advice. I really like where the story has gone so far, but I feel like this first chapter may be a bit long for some readers. Its been a really slow build, to establish a special dynamic of the relationship between the characters. Anyone mind giving me a little advice here.

I'm sorry, but I had to giggle a little that you might think it may be a bit long. Seriously, people think my posts and recordings are long on the forums side. On the stories side, I tend to cut loose and write novels. (Or at least novellas.)

(Not under this name as these stories were all shorties intended to be competing in the last few Survivor Contests that were typically just slapped up in less than eight hours from concept to submission.)

The irony is that back in college, there was an assignment to write ten pages and I turned in two. And the professor commented to the class that I actually said more in the two I turned in than the rest of the class did in their ten.

The important thing, I think (and I reserve the right to be just as wrong as the next shmoe), is "does each tidbit you wrote serve to advance the story on some level?" If it does, keep it. If it doesn't, cut it. If you can't get across an idea in short, then write it long. But, if writing it long pulls attention away from the idea, then slice out all the unnecessary verbiage.

At the end of the day, it is impossible to please every single reader. So, write the story you want to write. Some readers will enjoy it as much as you. Some more. Some less. Some not at all. You, as the writer, should disappear while they are reading what you wrote, and only be recalled when the story is over and they are wiping away the smiling tears.

 

[Voboy]

Until you hoist the flag, you won't see how it flaps.

OP, 17k words is by no means a long story. My usual sex scene runs about 5k words, so figure 22k by the time you're done; that's not at all "too long."

But.

17k words of buildup, with no other sex? I mean, this is a sex site; that's not a choice I would make. I'd have put in some interstitial sex just to titillate the reader.

Or perhaps I misunderstand you and there IS other sex, just not between the two main characters. In that case, I'd say you're right on track. But in any event, you've got to hoist the flag at some point.

 

[SimonDoom]

Whenever this subject comes up, I notice two schools of thought. One is to try to appeal to the most readers. The other is to do what's right for your story. I'm not criticizing either approach. .

To my mind, there's more overlap between these schools than some people give credit to. I am definitely in the "statistics school," but I also strongly believe that above all one should follow one's own muse and standards rather that worry too much what others like. But for a few reasons, I think minding the data can be helpful even if one is takes the more personal approach.

1. For one thing, some authors aren't sure what they want to do. So it's of limited use to tell them "Just mind your muse." They have some story ideas, but they don't know where to go with them, and they may have questions and doubts about mechanics, about storytelling, and in particular about how this Site works. Information from others about how they've done it, and what they've observed, can help point new authors in the right direction and help them fulfill their goals, whatever they are.

2. Understanding what "works" on this Site can help authors connect with readers without compromising a single word of the story. For instance, picking the right category. Drafting an appealing title. Drafting an appealing tagline. Some may disagree, but to me these aren't artistic choices (the title is a little, but not much, for me). These are marketing choices. You can stick to your artistic guns on story content but still improve how you market your stories by minding some of Literotica's peculiarities.

3. I see chapter length as a marketing strategy, not an artistic choice. I'm sure many disagree, but this is how I see it. Say you have a story that would if published in full would be 9 Lit pages. I see nothing artistic gained from publishing it as 9 separate 1-page chapters, as opposed to 3 3-page chapters, or 1 9-page story. I do see it as a foolish thing to do in terms of maximizing reader response. There might be some cases where it makes an artistic difference, but not most of the time. So I think it makes much more sense to publish it in 3 chapters or as a single story.

4. There is some objective data that backs up certain beliefs about ideal story and chapter lengths from the standpoint of maximizing readers and scores. 8Letters and Hector_Bidon have done some of this analysis (based on a heck of a lot of work) and published their results in previous threads in this forum. My opinions are based not just on my personal experience but also on reading their work and also from my study of Literotica toplists (not systematic, but still informative).

So, in short, I completely agree with those who say the artist's own personal artistic goals are what should count most, but I also completely agree that looking at the data generated by this Site can help one make more informed and smarter publishing decisisons without compromising a single word.

 

[Bebop3]

Most strong stories of reasonable length have one major conflict and a few sub-conflicts.

What pulls readers in is a conflict. What keeps them in is progress in resolution of that conflict.

If you're concerned that your story is moving too slowly to be engaging in part one, I'd consider establishing and resolving a conflict within that chapter. Give the reader a sense that things are being accomplished and the story is moving forward instead of meandering.

Good luck!

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

To my mind, there's more overlap between these schools than some people give credit to. I am definitely in the "statistics school," but I also strongly believe that above all one should follow one's own muse and standards rather that worry too much what others like. But for a few reasons, I think minding the data can be helpful even if one is takes the more personal approach.

1. For one thing, some authors aren't sure what they want to do. So it's of limited use to tell them "Just mind your muse." They have some story ideas, but they don't know where to go with them, and they may have questions and doubts about mechanics, about storytelling, and in particular about how this Site works. Information from others about how they've done it, and what they've observed, can help point new authors in the right direction and help them fulfill their goals, whatever they are.

2. Understanding what "works" on this Site can help authors connect with readers without compromising a single word of the story. For instance, picking the right category. Drafting an appealing title. Drafting an appealing tagline. Some may disagree, but to me these aren't artistic choices (the title is a little, but not much, for me). These are marketing choices. You can stick to your artistic guns on story content but still improve how you market your stories by minding some of Literotica's peculiarities.

3. I see chapter length as a marketing strategy, not an artistic choice. I'm sure many disagree, but this is how I see it. Say you have a story that would if published in full would be 9 Lit pages. I see nothing artistic gained from publishing it as 9 separate 1-page chapters, as opposed to 3 3-page chapters, or 1 9-page story. I do see it as a foolish thing to do in terms of maximizing reader response. There might be some cases where it makes an artistic difference, but not most of the time. So I think it makes much more sense to publish it in 3 chapters or as a single story.

4. There is some objective data that backs up certain beliefs about ideal story and chapter lengths from the standpoint of maximizing readers and scores. 8Letters and Hector_Bidon have done some of this analysis (based on a heck of a lot of work) and published their results in previous threads in this forum. My opinions are based not just on my personal experience but also on reading their work and also from my study of Literotica toplists (not systematic, but still informative).

So, in short, I completely agree with those who say the artist's own personal artistic goals are what should count most, but I also completely agree that looking at the data generated by this Site can help one make more informed and smarter publishing decisisons without compromising a single word.

Most of what you're talking about is what I was referring to when I said the information is great and it's s good to know what's out there to consider. Those are not the considerations that drive me, but I still like to have the information. It's just good to know how things work and how decisions might affect the response one gets. I just think it needs to be kept in perspective. The thing about statistics is they can be a bit dictatorial. And, while they show you important things, they also create blind spots.

If you were to take it to an extreme (just as a thought experiment, not a straw man), you could figure out the perfect subject, the perfect writing style, the perfect vocabulary level, the perfect length and the perfect structure to get to your statistical goal. But would you want to do that? Scaled back, one has to ask which aspects one is willing to change and which ones they aren't. I understand that it's your contention that chapter length is one aspect that doesn't have to affect storytelling, but I don't think that's entirely accurate.

For me, a multi-chapter Lit story should have a self-contained story arc within each chapter. I think that's how most multi-chapter Lit stories are written, and I imagine that's what readers expect. It's rather unsatisfying to get to the end of of a chapter and just run out of story without having the satisfaction of completion of even a minor arc. If a chapter is cut before the minor arc is complete, to me, it has been compromised to fit the ideal chapter length. I do not believe readers will reward that. You can design an arc to try to fit it into an ideal-length chapter, but then you're subjecting your story to the artificial demands of the statistics. There should be a balance. I think the statistics are helpful in determining the balance because they tell you something about expectation, and that allows you to balance expectation against the natural structure of the story.

In general, I think there are different structural considerations that apply to longer stories than to shorter ones, even within the context of a chapter. You've mentioned before that you prefer to read shorter stories. Around 20k words, I think? I realize you read longer stories, too, just like I read shorter ones, but you have a particular preference. I think what you're looking for structurally is probably different than what someone who likes longer stories is looking for. The writers I've read who have gone on to successfully publish have generally had longer chapters and longer story lengths than the statistics would recommend. Of course, I like reading long stories, so those are most of the ones of which I'm aware. While the ones of which I'm aware aren't representative, knowing of those successes is enough to demonstrate that statistics aren't the whole story.

I guess what I'm saying is that the statistics are helpful and the information is good to have, but it's good to recognize their limitations and perhaps more importantly, for an author to be conscious of how they want to use the statistics. I think statistical success is very rewarding for some people. It's a tangible measure of their performance. It helps them assess their progression, and I'd bet that a high rating equals a temporary increase in dopamine levels. I think for other people, allowing the statistics to focus the author on statistical performance could really hamper the creative process and/or set them on a path to chasing statistics that would ultimately be unfulfilling for them. Either choice is a fine choice, but it's good to choose consciously.

A high rating makes me happy very briefly (and only if I'm in a good mood anyway.) It's the comments and private feedback that I find rewarding and motivating. I love it when readers care about my characters. They have some very funny ideas about the characters sometimes, but they're invested, and I find that tremendously gratifying. A few readers send me feedback after every chapter, asking me more about the characters and telling me how they view them and feel about them. That's what gets me motivated. I've created a world they care about, and that's my measure of success - to create something that breathes. Don't get me wrong - I don't want a low rating. But, I don't think a low rating could possibly take away the satisfaction I get from people immersing themselves in the world I imagined.

I'm OCD enough that if, after my first couple of submissions, I wasn't getting ratings I was happy with and wasn't getting that kind of feedback, I'd be prone to start chasing ratings. I would probably rely on the statistics. It would become work. I don't mind working. I'm good at working. I generally like to get paid for it, though.

I remember myself in high school chasing grades. Getting a 100 percent became a neutral experience. Getting a 99.5 percent became a negative experience. A 95? Devastating. It was stupid, stupid, stupid, and I was too blind to see it. None of those grades made me happy then, and they don't make one iota of difference today. I don't want to do that again. If I still had that mindset, nothing short of a 5.0 rating would satisfy me. Thus, I'd never be satisfied. Not everyone has my propensity to suck the fun out of things with performance metrics, but I don't think it's uncommon. We can't help being mice in the maze looking for cheese, but we can choose which cheese we go after.

There was one point you made that I don't think I entirely grasped. I don't understand the marketing aspect unless unless the goal is to parlay Lit "success" into commercial success. That is an entirely different kettle of fish. To me, it seems like marketing would be something that comes into play when one has hit their stride. Maybe I don't understand what you mean by marketing, though. Do you mean trying to gain followers? Gain views? Or selling one's work?

 

[Nyquietman]

Until you hoist the flag, you won't see how it flaps.

OP, 17k words is by no means a long story. My usual sex scene runs about 5k words, so figure 22k by the time you're done; that's not at all "too long."

But.

17k words of buildup, with no other sex? I mean, this is a sex site; that's not a choice I would make. I'd have put in some interstitial sex just to titillate the reader.

Or perhaps I misunderstand you and there IS other sex, just not between the two main characters. In that case, I'd say you're right on track. But in any event, you've got to hoist the flag at some point.

Agree. There can be buildup but there gotta be some sex before 17k.

 

[SimonDoom]

There was one point you made that I don't think I entirely grasped. I don't understand the marketing aspect unless unless the goal is to parlay Lit "success" into commercial success. That is an entirely different kettle of fish. To me, it seems like marketing would be something that comes into play when one has hit their stride. Maybe I don't understand what you mean by marketing, though. Do you mean trying to gain followers? Gain views? Or selling one's work?

Fair question. Here's what I mean.

I reject the binary choice some seem to embrace between "artistic integrity" and "reaching a lot of readers." I think it's a false choice. You can stick to your artistic guns, and you can also do things to improve the chances that the fruits of your artistic efforts reach more readers. That's basically what I mean.

My first goal is to write stories I like that meet my standards. Stories I feel good about writing. I want to keep getting better and know that I'm getting better.

But goal two is to do whatever I can to make those stories reach the maximum number of potential readers at Literotica who might like them. I'd much rather do this than confine my stories to a small audience that will give me high scores. To me, this is the whole point of publication. I could just write my stories and keep them on my hard drive. I don't want to do that. I want people to see them and read them -- as many people as possible. So I pay very careful attention to this Site, its rules, its categories, its reader behavior, and all the ridiculous data about scores, views, votes, etc., because I want to connect with readers. After absorbing that data I make choices about things like category, tagline, chapter division and length, title, tags, etc. This is the activity that I call "marketing," because its purpose is to reach readers.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

Fair question. Here's what I mean.

I reject the binary choice some seem to embrace between "artistic integrity" and "reaching a lot of readers." I think it's a false choice. You can stick to your artistic guns, and you can also do things to improve the chances that the fruits of your artistic efforts reach more readers. That's basically what I mean.

My first goal is to write stories I like that meet my standards. Stories I feel good about writing. I want to keep getting better and know that I'm getting better.

But goal two is to do whatever I can to make those stories reach the maximum number of potential readers at Literotica who might like them. I'd much rather do this than confine my stories to a small audience that will give me high scores. To me, this is the whole point of publication. I could just write my stories and keep them on my hard drive. I don't want to do that. I want people to see them and read them -- as many people as possible. So I pay very careful attention to this Site, its rules, its categories, its reader behavior, and all the ridiculous data about scores, views, votes, etc., because I want to connect with readers. After absorbing that data I make choices about things like category, tagline, chapter division and length, title, tags, etc. This is the activity that I call "marketing," because its purpose is to reach readers.

Gotcha.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Agree. There can be buildup but there gotta be some sex before 17k.

Though what counts as sex can be pretty broad - a character's fantasies or reminiscences, description of a passionate kiss, aiming to have sex and plans going awry... some content to make clear this is an erotic story which will get to some sex eventually.

Or as the late unlamented British Rail put it, "Make getting there more like being there!"

 

[GroverLang]

How people get paid for their stories here depends on the person. For some people, it's the rating. For others, the views. Other people care more about favorites, and others care more about feedback. To one degree or another, I think everyone cares about trying to improve .

I do want to improve which is why I read the stories of other writers, in the categories I write in. No point in me, for example, reading erotic horror because I’m not drawn to the category and if I attempted to write an erotic horror story I know it would be awful.

I would never submit a story I wasn’t happy with but I do expect some stories to do better than others. I think that goes for every writer who’s realistic.

I do check the ratings until about a week after it comes off the first page. My priority is not the 5’s and 4’s or the 1’s. I’m looking to see if there are any 3’s. Because I don’t want anyone to read a story of mine and think it average. The 1’s are annoying and they do get removed, but not always, and then what’s left is a true reflection of what readers think of it. My last story, last month, has three times as many 5’s as 4’s but it’s only just squeezed into being red. Because it’s been bombed. But I know it really should show 4.75 which tells me what over 90% of the readers think. So that makes me 90% happy.

I would like those who voted 3 to leave a comment to say why they thought my story was average because, provided their comment is constructive, it will help me improve. But, as we know, 99.9999% of readers don’t comment. You have an idea of how good your story is in comparison with your other stories but the readers do sometimes surprise you. I’ve got one story, with 217 votes, which is 4.75. But it’s only one page. That really surprised me with one page stories generally not being well received.

I’m not bothered about the views because they don’t tell you who’s read your story only those who have opened it. When I first started I got excited when a story was favourited because it meant they wanted to read it again in the same way I’ve favourited nine stories and read them all more than once. Then I would check and see people had favourited hundreds of stories which told me in many cases a story being favourited doesn’t mean anything. The same when they favourite you as an author. It doesn’t mean they’ll read any more of your stories or vote.

So for me it’s the ratings in the first couple of weeks and any comments from readers who thought the story average. Although I will admit, because there are always exceptions with everything, constructive comments can come from anybody.

One last thing. Anyone who says they aren’t bothered about the rating of their stories isn’t to be believed. Every writer on here wants to be praised for their writing.

 

[jsmiam]

I am writing my first story on here, and was just looking for some advice. I really like where the story has gone so far, but I feel like this first chapter may be a bit long for some readers. Its been a really slow build, to establish a special dynamic of the relationship between the characters. Anyone mind giving me a little advice here.

Just do it. Congratulations. It’s your story.

This next sentence is totally irrelevant, other than reinforcing “just do it.” I personally, and this is just me and my opinion that I’m entitled to, hate chapters and long stories. That doesn’t mean you change anything about your story because of little old me. Other people love chapters and if you write a nice story will write comments saying they can’t wait for the next chapter.

In conclusion: opinions vary widely. This site is free. Do absolutely anything you want with respect to length and pace and anything else.

 

[GroverLang]

I think very few writers consider a 3 to be an indication of an average story (no offence intended!); personally, I think the average story is rated a 4 or even higher; perhaps 4.5. When I'd grade a good story, I'd give it a 5; when it's a story which really isn't all that great, I'd give it a 4, and when it's a story I don't like at all, I'd give it something below 4, and the exact score would depend whether I'm appalled or not. And I know there are many great stories with scores below 3, because readers rarely value the stories on quality.

I agree with you about the low scoring stories. I’ve read good stories with very low scores and awful ones with scores in the 4.70’s. Particularly from one writer who, because of a large fan base, always gets a high rating even though the majority of their stories only warrant a 4. Just the way it is.

I used the 3 as an example of how I think (only my opinion because there’s no data to back it up, as far as I’m aware) the “average” reader probably looks at it. In my opinion if they think the story is not good but not bad the the middle star is the one. Particularly as in the “new” voting stars it’s named as “average.” But as a writer I agree 4 is average because in my mind, the story is okay but is missing something. Whereas the stars say 4 is good not average.

So that’s why I use 3 as average when talking about reader’s comments. But, as I said before, and as we all know, the total of all comments is just a drop in the ocean.

I don’t vote below 4. It’s a 4 or 5 or nothing. What I do, if I consider it to be below a 4, is leave a comment and also tell them why I haven’t voted. My reasoning is, unlikely many anonymous commentators, they’ve had the courage to put their head above the parapet and attempt to write a story readers will like. I don’t think they should be punished for falling short of the target. Punishment would be them getting a low score and not knowing why. When that happens they should ask for advice in Story Feedback but it takes courage to do that even if they know the advice is freely available.

I wasn’t offended. Why would I feel offended by you having a different opinion to me? A comment is only offensive when the words used are offensive.

 

[HardTime4_69]

Just wanted to let you all know my story has been published. The first draft was rejected, and I ended up changing it a bit, but the 2nd draft was published. I'm really fucking pumped. When I logged on this morning I saw that it had been published and right now has a 4.67 rating, which is amazing to me.

Thanks for all your advice. Its a lot shorter than the original draft, but apparently it is being well received. Check it out and let me know what you think.

Thanks again!

 

[MelissaBaby]

Right now I'm just shy of 17,000 words. It has finally gotten to the point of their first sexual encounter and I was planning on ending this chapter, when this encounter ends, so its getting close to the end.

I am about finished on a multi-chapter series that will top out at about 350,000 words. My first chapter is 7,600 words. My main characters had their first sexual encounter together near the end of the chapter. While it got good ratings (4.74), I did receive a number of critiques that I "cut to the chase" too soon. After some reflection I agreed. I think I felt that readers would be impatient to get to the sex.

The lesson I learned from that was that you need to write it how it works for you. Don't rush into anything for the reader. Over time I have found that there are certainly readers who appreciate plot at least as much as sex.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Just wanted to let you all know my story has been published. The first draft was rejected, and I ended up changing it a bit, but the 2nd draft was published. I'm really fucking pumped. When I logged on this morning I saw that it had been published and right now has a 4.67 rating, which is amazing to me.

Thanks for all your advice. Its a lot shorter than the original draft, but apparently it is being well received. Check it out and let me know what you think.

Thanks again!

Congratulations.


Keep in mind that, if you are writing multi-chapters, some of the ideas you had for this first installment may be useful down the line. You don't have to put everything you've got in chapter one.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Congratulations.

Keep in mind that, if you are writing multi-chapters, some of the ideas you had for this first installment may be useful down the line. You don't have to put everything you've got in chapter one.

4.67 is impressive for the first time out.

I don't have a rule of thumb, but if I'm approaching maybe 8,000 words (usually less), I go to a new chapter. I try to find some natural point to make the break - maybe a different day, or just a change in venue. But that's me. You may be comfortable with a different technique.

 

[MelissaBaby]

4.67 is impressive for the first time out.

I don't have a rule of thumb, but if I'm approaching maybe 8,000 words (usually less), I go to a new chapter. I try to find some natural point to make the break - maybe a different day, or just a change in venue. But that's me. You may be comfortable with a different technique.

My personal preference would be to keep chapters between 8k-10k words. The problem is that “complete arc” issue. My goal is for each chapter to be a complete mini-story within the broader narrative, and I often exceed that range in order to complete that story. Even so, I think my longest chapters are about 13k.