Long term character development and keeping it sexy

[BarbarianLover]

Hi, I'm very new to this but I've recently posted a bunch of stories in the sex genie genre, they're posted in the sci-fi/ fantasy section under the title Genie Chronicles - Gemini.

I've got two main issues here.

Firstly while I'm liking the characters and I'm enjoying what I'm writing, however I feel they need fleshing out a little bit, the main male protagonist gets a decent description in the prologue but I'm not sure exactly how to add a bit more meat to his character and especially enhance the genies and certain villains and heroes I'm adding to the story.

My major problem is with the genies as they have only come into existence very recently (at the stage I'm currently at they're less than 36 hours out of their vessel) and although they have a lot of knowledge they have very little actual experience of the world and no real opinions, they're sex genies so naturally I do put in quite a bit of sex but I know they need more than just sex to stay afloat as characters. I've tried to give them experience but I find myself giving a very brief descriptions and concise paragraphs to describe them exploring parts of the world and they don't feel as fleshed out as I would like them to be.

Some of this is going to be solved as the stories continue, I have very long term plans for the story and so there are going to be little bits of development in the future but my first main question is; How do I develop a character in the short term who doesn't have a past upon which to draw? Also how do I develop minor characters enough that people either like or dislike them but without dwelling on them so much that they divert attention from the main characters and the plot?


My second issue is about the sex to story ratio, my early stories involve a lot of sex and not much plot. However as I'm going on I'm building a world and getting very bogged down in the rest of the world, now that's not always bad as I do enjoy developing the world and telling the story but I always come back to the point that it IS a sex story and I do want to add in enough sex that it still stands up as an erotic story, for me personally I love reading about how the characters get along but sometimes I think I could be reading any other genre, erotica is the one where I feel I can explore sex in explicit detail so I want it to feature regularly in my stories.
So question two is; How do I insure that I'm getting plenty of sex in there without throwing in a sex scene for the sake of it? And how do I weave the sex into the story properly?

Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[RoyceConnors]

As far as the young genies, I'd have them making errors and mistakes at doing their magic. Humour comes into play here, adding to their character development. Individual traits can be developed in action sequences and let the reader get a feel of who they are as individuals and as genies as a whole.

Think of keeping the sex as an integral part of the story and don't let it become gratuitous. It sounds like it could be a series of adventures and misadventures as it progresses and the trials and tribulations of having a genie in ones life.

 

[BarbarianLover]

OK that makes sense, I can definitely add some humour.

In terms of the sex, I understand what you say about not making it too gratuitous, I do tend to go into detail and I genuinely enjoy writing the sex scenes, making them raunchy and explicit, I think especially with sex genies on board it would be expected. Is there a line between making it detailed and explicit on the one hand but not being too gratuitous on the other?

Also people don't always explore the possibilities that come with sex genies (mainly because no-one's completed a sex genie series yet), I'm not saying I'm going to completely exhaust ever possibility but I will be using the fantasy lands and the conjured up people to a decent extent because I want to poke around in that area more.

And as I mentioned earlier I feel the advantage of writing erotica is the chance to go into detail, obviously other genres may include sex scenes but they won't be as torrid affairs nor will they have a readership or a need for getting particularly filthy, at what stage does it become too much even for erotica?

 

[BarbarianLover]

And I should add, part of the reason I made the leading male a successful author before he got the genies or even their vessel was so I could skip over the long story lines that the initial writer (JoeBrolly) got into where he's trying to get rich, I respect those stories immensely and I think their good but occasionally they feel a bit like a ramble. By giving him plenty of money at the start it leaves me free to explore the sex genies powers and send them on much more fantastic adventures.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Gratuitous sex in a long story is sex that has nothing to do with the story. Like if you read a james Bond novel and every fourth page there was a long detailed description of him fucking yet another woman... when you'd gotten into the story and all you really want by now is for him to foil the evil mastermind.

If having the sex turns out to be part of said foiling, then you have non-gratuitous sex-- and it can be as raunchy as you want it to be.

It's a frustrating balance to have to strike...

 

[Stella_Omega]

And I should add, part of the reason I made the leading male a successful author before he got the genies or even their vessel was so I could skip over the long story lines that the initial writer (JoeBrolly) got into where he's trying to get rich, I respect those stories immensely and I think their good but occasionally they feel a bit like a ramble. By giving him plenty of money at the start it leaves me free to explore the sex genies powers and send them on much more fantastic adventures.

yeah, money solves SO many plot problems, doesn't it? But if he has genies, what does he need to be rich for? He has magic! And sex!

 

[StrangeLife]

Gratuitous sex in a long story is sex that has nothing to do with the story. Like if you read a james Bond novel and every fourth page there was a long detailed description of him fucking yet another woman... when you'd gotten into the story and all you really want by now is for him to foil the evil mastermind.

If having the sex turns out to be part of said foiling, then you have non-gratuitous sex-- and it can be as raunchy as you want it to be.

It's a frustrating balance to have to strike...

When I read this I immediately got flashbacks to reading Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake series (book 10 and up). I would literally fast-forward through 50% or more of the later books in a desperate attempt to decant the plot from the longwinded and superfluous sexcapades.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

George V. Higgins handled sex well. It was always a significant problem for the character having all the sex.

 

[Stella_Omega]

When I read this I immediately got flashbacks to reading Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake series (book 10 and up). I would literally fast-forward through 50% or more of the later books in a desperate attempt to decant the plot from the longwinded and superfluous sexcapades.

Exactly. Although I gotta say,if she managed to keep your interest for ten books that way, she's must have been doing something right!

 

[RoyceConnors]

Like I was saying, it all comes down to formula ratios that the writer needs to adopt. Call it the Goldilocks formula. Each writer has to find the right formula that they like, or more importantly, their readers like.

 

[PennLady]

When I read this I immediately got flashbacks to reading Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake series (book 10 and up). I would literally fast-forward through 50% or more of the later books in a desperate attempt to decant the plot from the longwinded and superfluous sexcapades.

Thank you! It's nice to know I'm not the only one. I read one trilogy of those books, I think, and never went back. Really couldn't stand them for some reason, but I'll bet that's one of them.

 

[Darkniciad]

You're in Sci-Fi & Fantasy. The readers there will often skim even relevant sex scenes to get back to the story.

I don't know how many people were completely shocked when Andrea busted out a lightning bolt in "Danica", even though I'd been hinting at her having powers in the sex scenes for about 300k words

And you're talking about a sex genie here. No matter how benevolent her master is, she's a slave. No matter how little worldly experience she has, that's a big key for character development. It's also a way to make virtually any sex scene that strikes your fancy into a relevant one to the plot.

Give that some thought and see if you can break the sex genie curse. Most stories in this genre fall off unfinished or are 1-shots. Laresa's World is about the only one I know of that reached a conclusion.

 

[StrangeLife]

Exactly. Although I gotta say,if she managed to keep your interest for ten books that way, she's must have been doing something right!

Oh it's much worse - I've actually read all 21 of them.

Despite being exceptionally bad at writing sex scenes Ms. Hamilton is still a master story teller and has created an interesting universe populated by a cast of great characters. She can write crime-noir with the best of them, and that was how the Anita Blake series started out. Too bad it didn't continue that way...

Thank you! It's nice to know I'm not the only one. I read one trilogy of those books, I think, and never went back. Really couldn't stand them for some reason, but I'll bet that's one of them.

It also depend whether you like her flavor of hard-boiled urban fantasy I think. But should you ever decide to give her another go the first 9 books are "safe."

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I think the point that's being missed is a crucial concept - it's called "re-writing." Write your story. Chase all the plot bunnies that come to you. Then go back through it and kill off the bunnies that don't matter (or condense them).

 

[Bramblethorn]

My major problem is with the genies as they have only come into existence very recently (at the stage I'm currently at they're less than 36 hours out of their vessel) and although they have a lot of knowledge they have very little actual experience of the world and no real opinions, they're sex genies so naturally I do put in quite a bit of sex but I know they need more than just sex to stay afloat as characters. I've tried to give them experience but I find myself giving a very brief descriptions and concise paragraphs to describe them exploring parts of the world and they don't feel as fleshed out as I would like them to be.

Some of this is going to be solved as the stories continue, I have very long term plans for the story and so there are going to be little bits of development in the future but my first main question is; How do I develop a character in the short term who doesn't have a past upon which to draw?

Do they have to have started their existence in the bottle? Maybe they had a back history before running into a wizard and getting forced into a bottle for a few thousand years?

 

[bashfullyshameless]

And I should add, part of the reason I made the leading male a successful author before he got the genies or even their vessel was so I could skip over the long story lines that the initial writer (JoeBrolly) got into where he's trying to get rich, I respect those stories immensely and I think their good but occasionally they feel a bit like a ramble. By giving him plenty of money at the start it leaves me free to explore the sex genies powers and send them on much more fantastic adventures.

Hi BL,

I've taken a look at some of your stuff, though I'll admit I haven't given it a thorough read.

My suggestion (and I speak from experience regarding the "sexy wish fulfillment" stuff): make Peter Parker your guide.

No, really.

Being bitten by a radioactive spider that gives you superpowers doesn't fix all of your problems. Peter Parker still has trouble dealing with people. He still has trouble paying his rent. He still has family commitments and giant heaps of dumb luck. And even when he's Spider-Man and he saves a little boy from being smashed by a rampaging Doctor Octopus, the little boy in his arms says, "Oh, yeah? Captain America would've saved me AND saved my bike!"

You have a dude with two sex genies and a successful career... but even successful careers have their challenges. Sooner or later, the "real world" will notice strange things going on with him, and he'll have to act to clean it up--and since it's not exactly a threat to life & limb, perhaps the genies aren't compelled to fix it for him.

On the one hand, Joe Brolly set up a storyline that was largely conflict-free. His genie pops out of her bottle as a perfectly-tailored match for his protagonist's turn-ons and fetishes. Yet Brolly was smart enough to make sure the main character still had other issues to tackle. You mention that the stuff about his protagonist trying to make a living feels like a derail to you, but in a larger sense, that's a deliberate focus of the story: yes, he's got a fantastic sex life, but that doesn't fix the rest of his actual LIFE.

 

[bashfullyshameless]

You're in Sci-Fi & Fantasy. The readers there will often skim even relevant sex scenes to get back to the story.

Give that some thought and see if you can break the sex genie curse. Most stories in this genre fall off unfinished or are 1-shots. Laresa's World is about the only one I know of that reached a conclusion.

Hey now. I got "Morgan's Genie" to a conclusion, even if that series didn't lead to the sort of grand sweeping supernatural conflict with explosions and shoot-outs that I usually go for.

 

[BarbarianLover]

I get where you're coming from and that certainly sounds similar to an idea I had about this which is, he's an author so how do genies keep their cover story and maintain that anonymity when he's becoming less and less anonymous.

However I have vastly more fantastical story lines that I want to use, for example there's currently a djinn hunting demon on the loose and a group of magical warriors charging to intervene. My issue for the moment is that although the leading male's world is going to collide with the supernatural but it's yet to properly do so, as a result I'm giving him some time to explore sex with genies.

And I am considering exploring the genie abuse in some other way, probably have them find a djinn with a very cruel master, I've already killed a djinn although he was a very minor character, I'm also looking to involve the free djinn, (the ones not in vessels but are sort of out there in the aether) and they're going to crop up at the end of the current story line and they'll be massively involved in the next big story line.

I'm also considering skipping around the sex-plot issue by having each individual story line start with one or two stories where he's thinking "great, that last thing's over I can get on with living an eternal life of kinky genie sex" and have lots of sex and then he gets dragged into another insane scenario and later stories there's a lot less sex and a lot more time dealing with whichever problem I've given them.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

baloney

The writer is after a niche in the market. Ignoring this reality is where all writers crash onto the rocks. They create a fan-base and immediately go after a different fan-base.

 

[BarbarianLover]

I'm not actually chasing a fan base, I'm writing stories that I want to write, yes I want to make them better but they're still my stories, if people want to read something different they can, I don't have a problem with that, but I'm not chasing a particular fan base, if you like my stories then great, that's fantastic, if you don't then you know what that's also great, I'd be worried if I had everyone like the stories 24/7.

I'm basically getting creative with the fantasy world rather than taking a fantasy concept and trying to hammer it into a real-world hole, I'm taking liberties with genie lore, classical mythology and there will be references to other things in future stories that will also be considered liberties but I feel that's my choice as a writer, I'm just here to get some basic ideas for keeping it going, creating characters who (despite not being very realistic) the audience can on some level connect with and striking a balance between the two conflicting writing styles I have going on, those being the desire to write a decent story with plenty of sex without it devolving into a porno-on-paper.

 

[Weird Harold]

My major problem is with the genies as they have only come into existence very recently (at the stage I'm currently at they're less than 36 hours out of their vessel) and although they have a lot of knowledge they have very little actual experience of the world and no real opinions, they're sex genies so naturally I do put in quite a bit of sex but I know they need more than just sex to stay afloat as characters. I've tried to give them experience but I find myself giving a very brief descriptions and concise paragraphs to describe them exploring parts of the world and they don't feel as fleshed out as I would like them to be.

I've noticed throughout this discussion you've refereed to them as "the genies" rather than as individuals. Perhaps you need to make them individuals -- start thinking of them as "Jeannie and Barbara" instead of "the sex genies."

Give each genie some individual quirks: Jeannie likes chocolate cherries, Barbara prefers toffee; Barbara will spend hours on a blowjob, Jeannie would rather a quick 69 before getting to the kinky sex; etc, etc.

 

[BarbarianLover]

I've noticed throughout this discussion you've refereed to them as "the genies" rather than as individuals. Perhaps you need to make them individuals -- start thinking of them as "Jeannie and Barbara" instead of "the sex genies."

Give each genie some individual quirks: Jeannie likes chocolate cherries, Barbara prefers toffee; Barbara will spend hours on a blowjob, Jeannie would rather a quick 69 before getting to the kinky sex; etc, etc.

Yeah, that makes sense, however to an extent they are twins, they were in the same puzzle box, created at the same time, put there at the same time released at the same time and ultimately both are designed around being the ultimate incarnation of this man's particular view of a perfect woman.
Of course that is going to lead to some form of discussion about why he has two visions rather than one but that's not going to be huge, essentially they will become a family and there won't ever be any conflict between those three characters.

Now I like what you're saying about each having individual tastes and to an extent I'm exploring that already, they've had a shopping trip already and each one has picked her own perfumes and soaps and so forth so there are the beginnings of separation but they aren't going to drift too far from each other and they're going to maintain a fairly solid twins mentality so they talk together, pick up each other's thoughts etc. the leading trio are going to always remain as a solid unit that sort of muddle through problems together sometimes within the realms of genie powers, sometimes in the real world sometimes dealing with issues that are outside both the real world and the powers of Hazel and Rose.