London Times: Seriously Ill patients waiting 18 months for treatment

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miles

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What a bloody mess.


Seriously ill face longer NHS delays

BY NIGEL HAWKES, HEALTH EDITOR

THE Government’s drive to cut waiting lists has resulted in longer delays for seriously ill patients, an authoritative report from the National Audit Office has found.
More than half the consultants contacted by the NAO said that the order in which they would have chosen to treat patients had been distorted by pressures to cut waiting lists, and one fifth said that this happened frequently.

Managers reduced waiting lists more quickly by scheduling lots of simple operations rather than a few complex ones, it was said. In 80 per cent of the cases, the consultants said, the seriously ill patients had suffered as a result of the delay.

Cutting waiting lists was one of the pledges made by Labour in the 1997 election and enormous pressure was put on hospital chief executives to achieve the targets. There was particular emphasis on the need to reduce numbers waiting longer than 18 months.

The target has meant that less ill patients who are coming up to the 18-month deadline effectively “queue-jump” more needy cases who surgeons feel should be operated on more quickly.

As a result, says the report:

A series of routine hip and knee replacement cases approaching the 18-month threshold were operated on ahead of patients in greater need, who had implants which had failed and were in need of replacement.

A patient with a non-urgent sinus condition who had been waiting almost 18 months displaced more urgent cases.


Three patients with routine ear, nose and throat conditions were given priority over more urgent cases because they were about to breach a trust rule about maximum waiting times.


Operations to reverse vasectomies on patients who had been waiting almost 18 months displaced patients waiting for bladder cancer surgery.
The chairman of the British Medical Association consultants’ committee, Peter Hawker, said: “This confirms what the BMA has been saying for a long time — that waiting lists need to be managed from a patient’s point of view, with the most urgent cases treated first.”

Despite the success in cutting waiting lists by 100,000, there are still more than a million on the lists. The Government has now abandoned waiting lists as a target and is concentrating on reducing waiting times.

The NAO report says that waiting lists and times are too long and that there are huge and unexplained variations across the country.

Some trusts, it says, have also manipulated their waiting lists inappropriately, by taking names off them. It names six trusts where this has happened and says it will be undertaking further work in these cases. The trusts are: Redbridge, Guy’s and St Thomas’s, University College London Hospital, Plymouth, South Warwickshire General and Stoke Mandeville trusts.

A spokesman for the Department of Health said: “The NAO is right to underline the importance of treating patients according to their clinical priority. We expect the NHS to follow this principle and we have repeatedly made this clear.”

David Davis, chairman of the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee, expressed concern that one in five surgeons said that they were regularly forced to distort clinical priorities because of Government policy. “There must be no backsliding from the fundamental principle that those in greatest need are treated first,” he said.
 
this is in the UK?

It must be - cause I work here in Canada and the waiting lists are like NON EXISTENT in my hospital!!
I had to have knee surg done - took 1 month wait
My friend had his gallbladder out took 1 week
I see it every day...
 
Sadly...

...yes it is an abomination. A friend of is having heart trouble. He was put on a waiting list to see a cardiologist and after three months elected to see the same one privately, paying for it on his own. Next he needed a treadmill and angiogram. It was scheduled for about four months time. His wife works for us and we have been loading her up with patients so she afford to pay for his care privately. It's a real concern.

Ironically, our practice is successful because in our area the waiting list to see a psychologist or counsellor is over six months. Hardly an ideal situation. We offer appointments within 72 hours. No wonder our phone rings off the hook.

Something's got to change.
 
naw

it is a small hospital - like 100 beds and the population and sevices are a match - Mr Harris - has at least gooten this done right - some hospital's the services and population are unequal thus longer delays or too great a loss of money - think about it - if people with colds, sinus infections, minor ailments keep going to the emergency - they clog up this much needed area - if the emerg is backlogged the ENTIRE hospital is backlogged!!
GO to your family doctor in the FUCKING morining!!!
The exception is babies and old people who can get sick really fast.
 
The holdups...

...in our area aren't due to colds or emergency rooms being filled with minor cases. In fact the last time I sat in A&E with my son, who was transported by ambulance following a robbery and assault, I saw nobody there with minor problems. There were broken bones, car accident victims, and children with serious lacerations. The shortages are beds and specialists for seriously ill patients. Patients who die of brain tumours because their surgery has been rescheduled up to five times, resulting in a delay of 18 months and allowing the tumour to grow so large it is inoperable.

Need a CAT scan? Don't plan on it for 12-18 months.

It's not a secret to anybody here what the situation is. It's a matter of public record. It's just that it's scary to have to deal with it because there isn't the money to do it.
 
Re: naw

Stonedagger said:
it is a small hospital - like 100 beds and the population and sevices are a match - Mr Harris - has at least gooten this done right - some hospital's the services and population are unequal thus longer delays or too great a loss of money - think about it - if people with colds, sinus infections, minor ailments keep going to the emergency - they clog up this much needed area - if the emerg is backlogged the ENTIRE hospital is backlogged!!
GO to your family doctor in the FUCKING morining!!!
The exception is babies and old people who can get sick really fast.

Emergency rooms in Ontario kind of suck but general health services are still excellent. Easy on the pocketbook too.
 
hummm

CT scan takes about 2 weeks here...
Thankfully I live in Canada - although I worked for 3 years in Detroit, Michgan - USA is what Canada is going to be like if we don't start getting a little smarter about our health care!
 
Re: hummm

Stonedagger said:
CT scan takes about 2 weeks here...
Thankfully I live in Canada - although I worked for 3 years in Detroit, Michgan - USA is what Canada is going to be like if we don't start getting a little smarter about our health care!

Smarter as in?

Put more money into it? Less? Pay doctors more?
 
That's the real issue...

...isn't it?

I don't think that doctors really account for the bulk of medical expenses. People are willing to pay anything to stay alive and most policy makers have a real dilemma with saying "you're old" or "you're going to die no matter what we do". Top-notch, no holds barred medical care costs a bundle. I think medical care in the US is extraordinary. Trauma centers are miracles of life saving, but we don't have anything like that near where I live. I'm not sure even London has anything to match what many moderately sized US hospitals have.

Most of the cost, I suspect is actually in the infrastructure to provide the care and if people want the best care (I do!) it will have to be paid for. Whether you pay for it through insurance or through taxation doesn't really matter...the money has to be paid over and spent.

The doctors I know here in England, including our GP, aren't getting rich and earn substantially less than most of their counterparts in the US.

It's a big problem and worry and I don't have any answers.
 
as in

NOT abuse it...
Health care is fine - but did you know someone on wellfare if they don't want to be cut off they have to look for work - BUT - and i mean a big BUT they can get off doing this if they get a note from a doctor - well most doc's in an emerg will write a note for a patient as they simply can't not write one even if they find nothing medically wrong cause they are NOT the family doc - now how's that for abuse

If there was a 5 dollar emerg fee most of these bums would not go cause that five bucks could be spent on smokes or beer!!!

I am not saying people on welfare are bums - but is a way to have some money till you find work NOT a life long solution!
 
Well, without straying too much into the area of welfare I would agree that it would be best for all of us if we ddin't abuse our wonderful socialized health care system.
 
I saw this story on TV last night...

...and what is missing is the fact that when Tony Blair and Labour were elected in 1979 one of their manifesto promises was to reduce the hospital waiting lists by 180,000.

They did this within three years but that still left 250,000 waiting for treatment. The National Audit Office, our Governemental watchdog which investigates everything to do with Government achievements have now broken the news about the lesser ill being put in front of the more seriously ill just to help reduce the waiting lists.

This newspaper article was copied from the NAO's own report.

The question is, now that the practice has been exposed and made public, what the Governement is going to do about it?

We await their proposals with bated breath.

Just another legacy "THAT WOMAN" left behind for others to sort out.
 
"yes but it's free?"

Apparently a common misconception...that socialised medicine is free. Hospitals, doctors, medications, ambulances, and all that cost money and it doesn't come off of trees. We pay for the NHS through taxes and, as near as I can calculate, my share of taxes that went to the NHS matches or exceeds what I paid for private health insurance (100% self-funded) before I left the US.

Simple economics...if a widget costs £100...it isn't free...somebody has to pay for it.
 
Also see my post on...

miles said:
yes, but it's free


...Todd's thread about how much tax I pay and what proportion goes to the upkeep of the Social Services.
 
I spent most of last night in a@e.
A colleague of mine had been injured during an incident with the kids in his care, I took him to A@E We got there at 8-15 pm I got back to the unit at 3-55am.
Long wait (yawn)
my point ? not sure.
When my Dad need his heart op ( they replaced 2 valves) they cancelled on him 3 times and twice he was already in the hospital.
This was due to a lack if intensive care beds.
lack of intensive care beds is due to lack of staff, not doctors but the more humble staff such as trained intensive care nurses and nursing assistants.
Mr Blair (Blaaah) has (as we all have ) known for a long time that we lack nurses and that those we do have are leaving the NHS at a rapid rate, due to overwork and under pay.
Mr Blairs suggestion that the answer to some of the problems is to train nursing staff to take over some of the doctors work is in my opinion ridiculous, what we need is not nurses doing more work, just more nurses.
 
And we need to cut down...

delite said:
I
Mr Blairs suggestion that the answer to some of the problems is to train nursing staff to take over some of the doctors work is in my opinion ridiculous, what we need is not nurses doing more work, just more nurses.



on the number of non-medical administrative staff.

Hospitals once ran perfectly well with co-ordination handled by Committee comprising of medical Heads of Departments until Thatcher decided to introduce outside "Managers" into the equation.
 
Given a choice, would you guys who live in Canada/G.B. rather keep the system as it is now, or get government completely out of the picture as in pre-socialized medicine?

PS - Saying you want improvements made in the current system is not an answer.

;)
 
...and what is missing is the fact that when Tony Blair and Labour were elected in 1979 one of their manifesto promises was to reduce the hospital waiting lists by 180,000.


The above date should of coarse be 1997 :D
 
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