Literary Erotica Sans Og

[dr_mabeuse]

Lately there have been some threads skirting about the issue of the literary value of porn and erotica: Og's post about his Swiftian story, Boxlicker's pride in writing porn of absolutely no redeeming literary value, and Gary's friend's defense of the literary merits of genre romance fiction in the "Vote for Literotica" thread. All these started me wondering again about something I think about a lot: can there really be such a thing as literary erotica?

Aside from the quality of the writing, the reason that most porn doesn't qualify as literature is because all it seeks to do is to sexually excite and arouse the reader. Literature is usually considered to have something more to say about life and living and the human condition. It has more depth and insight.

Taking that into consideration, is there such a thing as erotic literature? Is it possible to write porn that has redeeming social value, that says something about the experience of sexuality?

---dr.M.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Literature does say more sometimes Doc, but in its most basic form isn't it usually saying something about the Human Condition? There is nothing quite so human as falling in love. There is really no other species who practices romance and while it can be argued that many animals have elaborate mating rituals, ours seem to be uniquely ours.

If you write a story that is just stroke porn you probbly aren't touching on anything very deep. On the other hand, taking my own work as an example, I not only deal with love and lust, I usually have to deal with social and societal issues as well as gender roles, Norms and traditional values vs. a non traditional life style and usually I deal with that uniquely human condition called falling in love.

I may not give these issues the same attention as say a Sinclair on crusade, but I do deal with them. The value of some of my stories would be debateable in even the simple premise of getting a reader sexually aroused, but some of them do deal with serious issues in a serious way. It isn't world class literature by any stretch of the imagination, but it is literature. At least it is in my opinion.

-Colly

 

[mtnman2003]

Lit vs Erotica

Most stories are stroke oriented. Readers flock to those, based on the number of reads and popularity of the categories. To the extent that stories with more literature content remain lower in popularity.

An author must focus on the literature premise, develop characters, plot, etc., with some erotic platform to entice the reader to be considered real literature.

Erotica requires a shallow plot, lots of sex play, perfect technique and big organs, with some ability to coherently present the subject matter in logical order.

Eroctica much easier to write.

 

[shereads]

Aren't you serving an essential purpose when you help people explore their sexuality? Particularly us repressed ex-Baptists?

Erotica lacks merit as literature only if you accept that human sexuality and our sexual fantasies are somehow unworthy.


EDITED TO ASK:

What are the acceptable topics for literature?

In novels where sexualty is the primary topic, is it necessary for the sex to be demonized in some way - sexual frustration/confused sexual identity/life gone wrong because of sexual obsession - in order for there to be literary merit?

 

[oggbashan]

Ög protesteth

I try to write erotica, not porn. We have had many threads on the difference.

My view is that erotica aims to be literature; porn does not.

Porn's sole purpose is to titillate. Erotica should do more and at its best can be as interesting to study as mainstream literature if there is such a thing.

One of the reasons I like Literotica is the wide variety of stories many of them with intrinsic merit as reading material. The stroke stories tend to get higher ratings but that isn't always true because some storytelling that has more than the stroke episodes can get good ratings.

My Swiftian chapters are a satire on a satirist. Gulliver's Travels were and are a trenchant comment on the politics and establishment of Swift's time. Many of Swift's comments e.g. on the lawyers in the adversarial system; and the development of machinery of war are still valid. Had Swift been alive today I think he would attack the sex industry, the use of the internet to disseminate Viagra, and the use of sex in advertising. I think that he would be happy to write literary erotica because in his day he sailed as close to the edge with his satire as he could.

Whether I write literary erotica is for others to say. I think that my parts of Gulliver's Travels are literary pastiches which probably aren't that erotic. My sole aim is to amuse, not to instruct. Titillation is a bonus if I achieve it.

Back to Brobdingnag.

Ög

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Anais Nin seems to be the author most held up as an example of erotic literature. The only thing of hers I’ve read was “Little Birds”, and that was a while ago. I found it neither especially pornographic nor especially interesting. In fact, all I remember about it was a lot of stories about middle aged men going through a lot of trouble just so they could see little girls’ underpants. But then, maybe I misremember.

Henry Miller’s stuff is literature, but it’s not especially erotic. He just uses a lot of language people didn’t use back then.

Where is the erotic literature?

---dr.M.

 

[oggbashan]

Back to Basics: A few examples of literary erotica:

There is a fair amount of erotica in the Old Testament and in Burton's translation of The Arabian Nights.

Balzac: Droll tales

Chaucer wrote erotic literature.

Defoe: Moll Flanders

Fielding: Tom Jones

Erotica can be in the mind of the reader.

Ög

 

[Colleen Thomas]

The Decameron by Boccaico

-Colly

 

[oggbashan]

Ovid: Ars Amatoria

Petronius: Satyricon

Suetonius: Lives of the Caesars

Rabelais: Gargantua and Pantagruel

Ög (I hope this thread doesn't give my Muses any ideas. I don't want to start writing in Latin or Old French)

 

[janus40s]

..

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Ovid: Ars Amatoria

Petronius: Satyricon

Suetonius: Lives of the Caesars

Rabelais: Gargantua and Pantagruel

Ög (I hope this thread doesn't give my Muses any ideas. I don't want to start writing in Latin or Old French)

I don't know ogs, considering what you did with the giantess in gulliver I have to think you could make Helen of troy into quite a dish

-Colly

 

[Black Tulip]

The way I have always understood it: literature tries to look at society or part of it in a fresh way, presenting the readers with a new perspective.

If you agree with that, erotic literature is certainly possible. You don't have to preach in order to bring some of your ideas across, but in writing erotica you can very easily insert your opinions on what sexuality is all about. I'd say that counts.

No guarantee it is world class literature of course.

 

[shereads]

One of the most esteemed passages in American literature, if we're to believe our high school American lit teachers, is a lengthy, exquisitely detailed description of rope, in Moby Dick.

If half that amount of text had been devoted to describing the cabin boy's penis, would we have literary erotica?

We would certainly have more students reading the book instead of the Cliffs Notes.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

'In a sense, pornography is the most political form of fiction, dealing with how we use and exploit each other, in the most urgent and ruthless way.' - JG Ballard

There is as much or even more potential for literature in pornography than in any other theme or subject, in my opinion. The vast majority of published authors chooses to stay away from porn, but that is more an indication of the principles of the publishing industry and society in general than of the literary merits (or lack thereof) of pornography.

I also think that the only difference between pornography and erotica is gloss. Erotica will never be more than a substandard literary byproduct, because it lacks the integrity of good pornography.

 

[shereads]

Not sure where I read this:

"The difference between pornography and erotica is lighting."

 

[dr_mabeuse]

There is as much or even more potential for literature in pornography than in any other theme or subject, in my opinion. The vast majority of published authors chooses to stay away from porn, but that is more an indication of the principles of the publishing industry and society in general than of the literary merits (or lack thereof) of pornography.

I'm entirely with Lauren on this. I think there's a ton of good, hot and perceptive pornography waiting to be written. Most of the sex I've seen in popular fiction these days--and you see a lot--is embarrassingly gratuitous and clumsily done. It makes you feel bad for the author.

I know about Ovid and Boccaccio, and I can't imagine anyone finding that stuff arousing of even very insightful. D.H. Lawrence (Lady Chatterly) and Lawrence Durrell (Alexandrian Quartet) are very erotic writers but not very pornographic and not at all explicit. D.H. is especially good if you like sweaty men wrestling (and hey, who doesn't?)

---dr.M.

 

[CharleyH]

Literary erotica? Absolutely there is!

Porn is the quick fix. Have read plenty of it: "his throbbing man cock" or "her cunt" would be a good example of porn playing to the lowest common denominator, which is ultimately the mass audience.

Literaty erotica chooses semiotics (symbol/metaphor) more carefully.

I do agree with Colly, and Og. Unfortunately, I believe Shreads and Mtnman are confusing the words. No offence. Porn, is typically short . . . flash. Erotica is typically book length - but it is not the rule in either genre.

Elizabeth NcNeill wrote "9 1/2 weeks." Some parts are very erotic, others delve into the psyche of one who is submissive.

Marguarite Duras wrote many erotic pieces. "The Lover," is one, but Dr. M, please read "The man in the Corridor." I'm not sure this is the exact title, but it is HOT!

 

[Guest]

D.H. is especially good if you like sweaty men wrestling (and hey, who doesn't?)

Ha, ha, Mab. I got over D.H. in my early twenties. It's embarrassing to recall how I used to think of him (along with Durrell). After all the language and characterization one only gets an act of fellatio as the big climax in Women in Love! What was that about, Larry?

So, I'm agreeing with you and Laruencita. It's interesting to think of the diffs between erotica and porn as described above vs. those in film. Perhaps literature will eventually best the so-called "auteurs" in eroticism.

Perdita

 

[Edward Teach]

A good photograph isn't art because of the subject pictured. A good painting isn't a work of art because of the object depicted. Neither is a story, poem or other writing a work of literature soley because of its subject matter. Subject matter is irrelevant in art.

- Ed

 

[CharleyH]

LOL - Perdita - Autuer does mean author afterall . . . . I say again: Marguaritte DURAS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't yell her name enough.

 

[Guest]

Ch.H., you're becoming annoying quickly. Look up auteur in a book on film theory.

Duras bores me as a writer and eroticist.

Perdita

p.s. take Pops' advice.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Re: Ög protesteth

My view is that erotica aims to be literature; porn does not.

Porn's sole purpose is to titillate. Erotica should do more and at its best can be as interesting to study as mainstream literature if there is such a thing.

That's the way I look at it. I even went so far as to (horrors!) look them up in the dictionary, but Webster's is behind the curve on this one and defines them as meaning pretty much the same thing.

Not so: Porn is designed to sexually arouse. Erotica tries to illuminate and explore.

---dr.M

 

[shereads]

Re: Re: Ög protesteth

Erotica tries to illuminate and explore.

Lighting. Like I said.

 

[Black Tulip]

Re: Re: Ög protesteth

That's the way I look at it. I even went so far as to (horrors!) look them up in the dictionary, but Webster's is behind the curve on this one and defines them as meaning pretty much the same thing.

Not so: Porn is designed to sexually arouse. Erotica tries to illuminate and explore.

---dr.M

The two requisite ingredients for literature, no matter to subject.