Lit Conformity

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Voila! and Eureka!

I found the answer.

Your story scores at LIT are populist election results unrelated to anything but what readers prefer to read. The highest scores write the same comforting stuff all the time.

Peggy Noonan spoke of this recently. Of how perfessers and students suppress masterpieces they don't like. Comfort level is the new standard. She says masterpieces are supposed to rock the boat.

 

[DreamCloud]

It's because comfort is ... well ... comfortable.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Voila! and Eureka!

I found the answer.

Your story scores at LIT are populist election results unrelated to anything but what readers prefer to read. The highest scores write the same comforting stuff all the time.

Peggy Noonan spoke of this recently. Of how perfessers and students suppress masterpieces they don't like. Comfort level is the new standard. She says masterpieces are supposed to rock the boat.

You (or Peggy) have put the hart before the course, James. Masterpieces aren't supposed to rock the boat; works that rock the boat may be masterpieces. Rocking the boat in and of itself does not a masterpiece make; the work that shows us something in an entirely unexpected and full way with skill and creativity will rock the boat and, perhaps be hailed as a masterpiece. "Comfortable" is probably antithetical to masterpiece, but discomfort does not necessarily mean "unpleasant." I actually like to have my comfortable little world disturbed by new things; otherwise I start boring even myself.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You (or Peggy) have put the hart before the course, James. Masterpieces aren't supposed to rock the boat; works that rock the boat may be masterpieces. Rocking the boat in and of itself does not a masterpiece make; the work that shows us something in an entirely unexpected and full way with skill and creativity will rock the boat and, perhaps be hailed as a masterpiece. "Comfortable" is probably antithetical to masterpiece, but discomfort does not necessarily mean "unpleasant." I actually like to have my comfortable little world disturbed by new things; otherwise I start boring even myself.

Youre brighter than the average bear, TIO. LIT readers look for underwear labels and nail color, and if it don't say HANES the writer is in trouble.

 

[sr71plt]

V
Your story scores at LIT are populist election results unrelated to anything but what readers prefer to read. The highest scores write the same comforting stuff all the time.

The scores are also related to whether the author is friend or foe.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Surely it's a tad more complex.

 

[sr71plt]

Surely it's a tad more complex.

What would you know about it (or care about it)? You haven't posted a story to Lit. for nine years.

 

[lovecraft68]

No one will ever be able to hit everything all lit readers want and no one can ever say 'all readers want..."

But looking at some things lately I'm drawing the conclusion that although there is a large number of people who like some story with their smut, the strokers do rule.

The top two lit authors on the all time fav list prove it. Silk's titles read like bang brothers porn video titles and TTT writes nothing but female bimbos who turn into drooling cumslut cock whores anytime a guy walks by.

Pure male fantasy is huge here. They vote with their dicks and....there's a lot of dicks on lit.

 

[Katiecat]

What would you know about it (or care about it)? You haven't posted a story to Lit. for nine years.

I've seen this kind of comment a couple of times. I don't know Elfin, or presume to know anything at all about her circumstances. But I really feel the need to say: we don't know anyone's circumstances, really, unless we know them personally. We don't know why they might not be writing. I went through years of writer's block, where I had ideas, created characters and wrote scenes, but just couldn't make them gel together and form a story. But at the time, I was the primary caregiver and power of attorney for my elderly mother, who had multiple strokes, cancer, and progressive dementia. Also during this time, my husband was in a catastrophic rock climbing accident that almost killed him and has left him permanently disabled.

That doesn't mean I'm not a writer. It just means I couldn't write for a season. So you just never know.

No one will ever be able to hit everything all lit readers want and no one can ever say 'all readers want..."

But looking at some things lately I'm drawing the conclusion that although there is a large number of people who like some story with their smut, the strokers do rule.

The top two lit authors on the all time fav list prove it. Silk's titles read like bang brothers porn video titles and TTT writes nothing but female bimbos who turn into drooling cumslut cock whores anytime a guy walks by.

Pure male fantasy is huge here. They vote with their dicks and....there's a lot of dicks on lit.

I've resigned myself to getting okay, but not great scores on this site. I really don't have the heart and unique talent to write stroke porn. A lot of the time I guess I'm not really writing erotica; I'm writing stories with characters I hope people relate to and care about, and those stories have erotic scenes in them.

I asked a respected, very popular writer here to review a few of my stories. He indicated that my stories have too much build up and not enough of the "pay off" sex, that the actual sex scenes are too short. From an erotica standpoint, I understand what he was saying I think -- people read the stories on here hoping and expecting to read hot sex scenes. To me, the build up scenes are erotic, and the "pay off" isn't the grand finale fuck, but the character interaction, and hopefully the story itself. But I think that may disappoint a lot of readers here who are looking for something else.

 

[Sammael Bard]

IMO...

One cannot make sweeping generalizations regarding everything. How a single story will fare depends on its contents and the category it's in. A very small part also depends on who the author is, but that remains a small part as compared to the larger picture. I've seen several stories top the Hall-of-Fame because of its quality. Plot, erotica, and almost everything was honed to perfection.

That said, yeah, the stroker stories rule the Lit market. C'mon, who're we kidding here? A majority of the people come here (or any free erotica website) for the sole purpose to get off. Initially, I was a part of that category of readers.



I write what I want to see, not what a reader wants to see. I believe that a majority of the readers don't have a preformed notion of what they want to see in a story. An author can exploit that fact and draw in the readers to their story with its quality content. A short stroker story will only hold their attention for as long as the story continues. They won't take an interest in your other works just because you aren't really enticing them to do so.

Hooking a reader for the longer term will result in greater benefits, say in terms of sales of actual book the author releases in the market.

What others do or write isn't my itch. Topping a favourite author list of a free erotica website isn't exactly one of my priorities in life right now. Sure, it'd definitely feel good to top that list, but at the cost of my writing style, I'll gladly forgo of this opportunity.

 

[sr71plt]

I've seen this kind of comment a couple of times. I don't know Elfin, or presume to know anything at all about her circumstances. But I really feel the need to say: we don't know anyone's circumstances, really, unless we know them personally. We don't know why they might not be writing.

Oh, I just use this on Elfin when she asserts her "easy button" as an authority on writing for Lit.

And, yes, it doesn't seem that you are up to speed on Elfin's history of posts.

 

[sr71plt]

IMO...

One cannot make sweeping generalizations regarding everything. How a single story will fare depends on its contents and the category it's in. A very small part also depends on who the author is, but that remains a small part as compared to the larger picture. I've seen several stories top the Hall-of-Fame because of its quality.

Beyond that, I think it depends on the huge variable of just what mix and volume of readers pick it to read.

 

[Sammael Bard]

Oh, I just use this on Elfin when she asserts her "easy button" as an authority on writing for Lit.

And, yes, it doesn't seem that you are up to speed on Elfin's history of posts.

Oh, I remember you saying something about Jenny Jackson and Elfin O being haters of first person POV, and that, according to them, shouldn't exist.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I really don't have the heart and unique talent to write stroke porn. A lot of the time I guess I'm not really writing erotica; I'm writing stories with characters I hope people relate to and care about, and those stories have erotic scenes in them.

I asked a respected, very popular writer here to review a few of my stories. He indicated that my stories have too much build up and not enough of the "pay off" sex, that the actual sex scenes are too short. From an erotica standpoint, I understand what he was saying I think -- people read the stories on here hoping and expecting to read hot sex scenes. To me, the build up scenes are erotic, and the "pay off" isn't the grand finale fuck, but the character interaction, and hopefully the story itself. But I think that may disappoint a lot of readers here who are looking for something else.

For me, what happens during the sex IS part of the story. Remove the sex and you remove the story. If the story can be told by saying nothing more than, "And then they had sex" in exchange for describing the sex scene, then it's not really an erotic story. It's a story with sex in it.

Yes, I suppose I'm splitting hairs. Does ever sex act need to be described in the literary equivalent of slo-mo? No, but then again, sex is more than body parts meeting, it's two (or more) people meeting. Actions create reactions. Does he touch her there? Does she ask him to go there?

I guess what I'm suggesting is that the action of the sex should help illuminate the characters and/or push the story along. At least that's what I try to do.

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, I remember you saying something about Jenny Jackson and Elfin O being haters of first person POV, and that, according to them, shouldn't exist.

Yes. They also didn't know the difference between tense and POV, and Jenny responded to 80 percent of the requesters for feedback on the feedback forum that their stories were shit. She also said that the protagonist had to be named in the first paragraph. The enduring criticism is the measurements one. Neither could ever discern what second person is, but then almost no one else posting feedback on Lit. knows what second person is either to this day.

 

[Katiecat]

Oh, I just use this on Elfin when she asserts her "easy button" as an authority on writing for Lit.

And, yes, it doesn't seem that you are up to speed on Elfin's history of posts.

You're right, I'm not up to speed on that. I can't follow the who-doesn't-like-whom drama on these boards; it's more confusing than Days of Our Lives. I just know I didn't post any stories for a hell of a long time, but I did have extenuating circumstances. Just thought I should throw that out there, for what it's worth.

For me, what happens during the sex IS part of the story. Remove the sex and you remove the story. If the story can be told by saying nothing more than, "And then they had sex" in exchange for describing the sex scene, then it's not really an erotic story. It's a story with sex in it.

Yes, I suppose I'm splitting hairs. Does ever sex act need to be described in the literary equivalent of slo-mo? No, but then again, sex is more than body parts meeting, it's two (or more) people meeting. Actions create reactions. Does he touch her there? Does she ask him to go there?

I guess what I'm suggesting is that the action of the sex should help illuminate the characters and/or push the story along. At least that's what I try to do.

Oh, I don't fade to black, or leave my readers hanging. But I usually write fairly short stories, 2-3 pages in length, so typically the lead up -- the tease, making out, oral sex, interspersed with dialogue, might be half the story, but the actual sex is only a paragraph or two. I dunno...Bill Clinton didn't think oral counted as "sex", but I think it does. I consider everything from the first kiss to be part of one continuous sex scene. But obviously, not everyone does.

I read your story, "Teaching Kaylea" (lovely story, BTW). And in the comments I saw someone actually wrote, "The end felt a little rushed" and that they thought a 5 was too high a score. Really? I think that's the most sex I've ever read in one story that still managed to maintain an actual plot -- and a good one worth reading, with engaging characters. Of course, it was an anon commenter, so no opportunity to read what they've written -- if anything -- and learn from the master.

I've had a reader comment that a sex scene seems rushed, then another say it went on too long, I should get to the point. And still others say, no, the pacing was just right. Can't please everyone, I guess.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I can't stand the notion that for something to be good and "groundbreaking," a masterpiece, it has to be uncomfortable. Sometimes it is, but not necessarily. There's no reason why it has to be, and no reason why something "comfortable" can't be great.

It's like people on this site who set off from the notion of "not wanting to write a [mythical] stroker." Or, "What I write isn't just porn," or "It's more than just sex. Mine has a STORY." Ooooh then it must be good.

Inevitably, the pendulum swings in the other direction, and pretty soon people will be saying I want some sex. All this STORY is so predictable.

Whenever there's a false dichotomy set up, it's based on shaky ground.

Voila! and Eureka!

I found the answer.

Your story scores at LIT are populist election results unrelated to anything but what readers prefer to read. The highest scores write the same comforting stuff all the time.

Peggy Noonan spoke of this recently. Of how perfessers and students suppress masterpieces they don't like. Comfort level is the new standard. She says masterpieces are supposed to rock the boat.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I work from the totally opposite direction. The story should push the sex along.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that the action of the sex should help illuminate the characters and/or push the story along. At least that's what I try to do.

 

[SamScribble]

You know, I'm starting to wonder if I should even be here.

 

[lovecraft68]

I've resigned myself to getting okay, but not great scores on this site. I really don't have the heart and unique talent to write stroke porn. A lot of the time I guess I'm not really writing erotica; I'm writing stories with characters I hope people relate to and care about, and those stories have erotic scenes in them.

I asked a respected, very popular writer here to review a few of my stories. He indicated that my stories have too much build up and not enough of the "pay off" sex, that the actual sex scenes are too short. From an erotica standpoint, I understand what he was saying I think -- people read the stories on here hoping and expecting to read hot sex scenes. To me, the build up scenes are erotic, and the "pay off" isn't the grand finale fuck, but the character interaction, and hopefully the story itself. But I think that may disappoint a lot of readers here who are looking for something else.

I used to equate stroke with length....2k story and fucking in the second paragraph. Then I realized strokers can be long stories its just there is little characterization and tons of sex and its just lust and nothing behind it.

I write some that are like that some Milf cougar/cub stories, but even they have a back ground and some motivation.

For me pure stroke is as I said pure male fantasy. A guy surrounded by women who lose their dignity and their minds and drop to their knees at the thought of cock.
Its idiotic, its demeaning and its misogynistic and it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to write it as long as you can write a sex scene you're good. Love, depth conflict, character development, check them at the door.

But a lot of people enjoy them, they are one handed quick get offs and this is a porn site. I don;t claim to write masterpieces or anything ground breaking, but I make the effort to have a reason for the sex and do a lot of slow burns because to me-and another faction of readers-that makes a story hotter. Its more fun to get the girl you have chased for months years than it is the one every guy gets.

 

[lovecraft68]

Oh, I just use this on Elfin when she asserts her "easy button" as an authority on writing for Lit.

Coming from the person who claims to be an authority on everything here, I find this statement hypocritical.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I used to equate stroke with length....2k story and fucking in the second paragraph. Then I realized strokers can be long stories its just there is little characterization and tons of sex and its just lust and nothing behind it.

I write some that are like that some Milf cougar/cub stories, but even they have a back ground and some motivation.

For me pure stroke is as I said pure male fantasy. A guy surrounded by women who lose their dignity and their minds and drop to their knees at the thought of cock.
Its idiotic, its demeaning and its misogynistic and it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to write it as long as you can write a sex scene you're good. Love, depth conflict, character development, check them at the door.

But a lot of people enjoy them, they are one handed quick get offs and this is a porn site. I don;t claim to write masterpieces or anything ground breaking, but I make the effort to have a reason for the sex and do a lot of slow burns because to me-and another faction of readers-that makes a story hotter. Its more fun to get the girl you have chased for months years than it is the one every guy gets.

Youre a gentleman and a scholar, I flip lust burgers.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I do not buy the proposition that folks are noble and good and come to porn for moral lessons and indoctrination. I believe they come to consume a draught of depravity. So none of my characters are decent god fearing people with hearts of gold who always do the right thing. Theyre villains who strive to lead others to hell.

I wanna be the Lee van Cleef of LIT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obLl9d3ZUmA

 

[49greg]

You know, I'm starting to wonder if I should even be here.

If you mean this forum, and especially this thread, then I agree with you.

 

[DreamCloud]

If you mean this forum, and especially this thread, then I agree with you.

It is rather smokey and that biker gang over there doesn't look very friendly.